Should I believe him?

[Star_Bright]

Better yet what do you call a woman who does that? Give me a freakin break...Women do it too....this is becoming a problem for OM as well.

All I can say is there is a lot of cake eating going on around here....HEEHEE:D:D

 

Sorry Confused4Now, I didn't mean to be gender-exclusive. Cheaters of both genders like to cake-eat!

[Star_Bright]

It does seem that our situations are quite similar. He wants me to wait for him and be available for him, while he is still married and not even filing for divorce. He keeps telling me that these things take time, they don't just happen overnight. I do understand a divorce is a lengthy process, but he has not even filed yet...

 

I think I will take your advice and ask him not to call me until he files - which is presumably after the holidays. I do think it's a bit unfair for him to want to call once in a while, just to make sure I'm still available, when he's actually the one that's not available. And I don't want to spend the next few months constantly wondering what is going on with them. This used to drive me crazy. I'm just going to carry on with my life, try not to think about his, but not date anyone just yet. I'm not ready to anyway.

 

Thanks for your comments! He seems so sincere, so I would like to give him one more chance...And if in the end, it turns out that he was not serious and no steps were taken towards the divorce, then whatever. I'll live and get over it. I'm the single one, I can find someone else. He, on the other hand, will be stuck in his unhappy marriage.

 

Yep, that's exactly how I thought of it. If he wants out that badly (which I do believe he does) he'll find the courage to get out, for himself, not me, and that's the only way we would have been able to have a good relationship anyway. It's a very hard and confusing situation but as you stay NC you'll realize it's for the best. At least if you're like me. If he can't even give you a definite time as to when he's going to file, then he's not serious about filing. And even if he DID then I'd be skeptical because he can always change his mind or maybe he wouldn't even mean it but just say it to keep you around. Really all that counts is action. Demand what you want and then stick to it and if he doesn't respect you well then at least you can respect yourself. Good luck!

[sc58]

He would always tells me I deserve all of him, a real relationship etc., and that he was going to give that to me.

 

Funny, my MM told me the exact same thing. Word for word. That I deserve "all of him" and he was going to give that to me...I want to believe that he means it, but even if he does mean it and does nothing about it, then it really doesn't matter, does it?

 

As you said, it's ACTIONS that count, not words. And yes, it is hard and it is confusing, but I do think that NC is for the best and if after the holidays are over, he has nothing to show me that proves he is on his way to divorce, then I'm outta there. I have waited before, and will wait again, but this is the absolute LAST time I will wait for this man if all he gives me is empty words. And even if he does file, I probably will still be skeptical until the D is finalized.

 

Thank you for your support!

[Star_Bright]

Funny, my MM told me the exact same thing. Word for word. That I deserve "all of him" and he was going to give that to me...I want to believe that he means it, but even if he does mean it and does nothing about it, then it really doesn't matter, does it?

 

As you said, it's ACTIONS that count, not words. And yes, it is hard and it is confusing, but I do think that NC is for the best and if after the holidays are over, he has nothing to show me that proves he is on his way to divorce, then I'm outta there. I have waited before, and will wait again, but this is the absolute LAST time I will wait for this man if all he gives me is empty words. And even if he does file, I probably will still be skeptical until the D is finalized.

 

Thank you for your support!

 

You're welcome. I totally get where you're at. You're doing the right thing, for you, and that's what matters. Think of that when it gets tough, because it will get tough for sure. HUGS!

[jj33]

SC it seems to me that your issue is really is he sincere. He told you he went back "to pretend" so he could look like a good guy.

 

That was disgusting as it put you and his W in a bad situation.

 

Now he tells you its really dead. Ddidnt he tell you that before he went back? So he is implicitly admitting he lied to you before with the Im just going back to pretend. NO he was going back to see if it would work and wasnt honest with you.

 

So NOW hes saying will you wait? Yes Id do it in my own time but if its for you I will rush. How exactly do you "rush" a divorce other than to give the W the moon and the sky so there is little negotiation. You dont.

 

And is there EVER a good time for a divorce. Its almost thanksgiving, then its Xmas, then its valentines day, then its easter,

 

then its the dogs birthday (cant leave within a month on either side of that)

 

then its summer vacations, and then we start again...

 

Id be very wary. This guy may love you but hes not being really honest with you.

 

Edited to add: in most cases when an MM says will you wait, it means will you have sex with me while I am deciding whether and when to file. The sometimes unstated being but Im doing this "for us"...

[sc58]

Divorces can take some time once they're underway, but here's the deal...from the time I decided I wanted a D to the D being filed at the courthouse was FOUR days.

 

What took time was actually deciding I wanted the D.

 

Well, if what he is saying is true, he says that his W does not want a D, which is why he has to wait to file...Did that play a part in your situation?

[sc58]

SC it seems to me that your issue is really is he sincere. He told you he went back "to pretend" so he could look like a good guy.

 

That was disgusting as it put you and his W in a bad situation.

 

Now he tells you its really dead. Ddidnt he tell you that before he went back? So he is implicitly admitting he lied to you before with the Im just going back to pretend. NO he was going back to see if it would work and wasnt honest with you.

 

So NOW hes saying will you wait? Yes Id do it in my own time but if its for you I will rush. How exactly do you "rush" a divorce other than to give the W the moon and the sky so there is little negotiation. You dont.

 

And is there EVER a good time for a divorce. Its almost thanksgiving, then its Xmas, then its valentines day, then its easter,

 

then its the dogs birthday (cant leave within a month on either side of that)

 

then its summer vacations, and then we start again...

 

Id be very wary. This guy may love you but hes not being really honest with you.

 

Edited to add: in most cases when an MM says will you wait, it means will you have sex with me while I am deciding whether and when to file. The sometimes unstated being but Im doing this "for us"...

 

I really want to believe him, though...He is the one that said we shouldn't see each other until he can actually SHOW me something has happened. so I don't see how he can mean that he just wants to have sex with me while he's deciding whether and when to file...

 

And he did say that he realized "pretending" to work things out was a stupid idea. And what he meant by "rushing" the divorce was filing sooner. He says that his W does not want a D, and is going to wait a few more months to see if she'll change her mind as he's just going to be a jerk to her until then (which I also think is kind of mean). I don't really know what 3 more months is going to do as this is actually what he said he was doing about 4 months ago. He said that he's trying to be a person she doesn't want to be with.

 

But I don't know, this whole thing is just confusing me and trying to analyze the situation is just stressing me out. I don't really wanna think about it too much anymore and I think I'm just gonna wait and see what happens after the holidays.

[MorningCoffee]

And what he meant by "rushing" the divorce was filing sooner. He says that his W does not want a D, and is going to wait a few more months to see if she'll change her mind as he's just going to be a jerk to her until then (which I also think is kind of mean). I don't really know what 3 more months is going to do as this is actually what he said he was doing about 4 months ago. He said that he's trying to be a person she doesn't want to be with.

 

In my view, the whole let-me-be-mean-and-maybe-she'll-change-her-mind thing is total b.s. and I don't mean betrayed spouse.

 

My ex-AP/MW played that same tune to me for a while, saying she wanted her M to deteriorate to the point where BH would throw up his hands and give up. But he didn't, not even after D-Day. So they are still there, probably neither very happy, but there they are.

 

IMO, a spouse that tries to manipulate the other into taking the first step to end the M is either fearful of the role of the bad guy/gal in the kids' or families' eyes, or just too weak to do what they need to do. So they make excuses but take no action.

 

At least, that was my take on what happened with her.

[HappyAtLast]

there are several courses of action he could take. A man who is divorcing and intends to make his affair partner his future full-time partner puts her needs and feelings first. While sometimes this will potentially at the expense of his current spouse, there are ways to accomplish this without being cruel.

 

In your case, your man says that he has already told his wife he intends to file for divorce. She has asked him to wait until after the holidays and he has agreed. In order for him to show good faith, why not file for divorce and provide his wife with the divorce papers, and then move out after the holidays.

 

If he is serious, he should be happy to take this one action so that you, his affair partner, know he is serious.

[BB07]

I really want to believe him, though...He is the one that said we shouldn't see each other until he can actually SHOW me something has happened. so I don't see how he can mean that he just wants to have sex with me while he's deciding whether and when to file...

 

It's what he "says" but watch for what he does.

 

And he did say that he realized "pretending" to work things out was a stupid idea. And what he meant by "rushing" the divorce was filing sooner. He says that his W does not want a D, and is going to wait a few more months to see if she'll change her mind as he's just going to be a jerk to her until then (which I also think is kind of mean). I don't really know what 3 more months is going to do as this is actually what he said he was doing about 4 months ago. He said that he's trying to be a person she doesn't want to be with.

 

Pretending is not just "kind of mean", it IS mean. This part is the part that makes me think he is playing you because he is not sure if he wants a divorce or not or he wants to come out not looking like the bad guy and he wants the wife to tell him to go. IMO, doesn't speak to much character and class does it? BS's call what he is doing the wife, gaslighting.......look it up. It's cruel and cold.

But I don't know, this whole thing is just confusing me and trying to analyze the situation is just stressing me out. I don't really wanna think about it too much anymore and I think I'm just gonna wait and see what happens after the holidays.

 

From what you've told us about your mm in your posts I don't think he is trustworthy and I'm afraid he is taking advantage of you and I'd go so far as to say he is lying a lot to you. Listen to your gut......it's telling you something, you just need to pay attention.

[UntoldStory]

In my view, the whole let-me-be-mean-and-maybe-she'll-change-her-mind thing is total b.s. and I don't mean betrayed spouse.

 

My ex-AP/MW played that same tune to me for a while, saying she wanted her M to deteriorate to the point where BH would throw up his hands and give up. But he didn't, not even after D-Day. So they are still there, probably neither very happy, but there they are.

 

IMO, a spouse that tries to manipulate the other into taking the first step to end the M is either fearful of the role of the bad guy/gal in the kids' or families' eyes, or just too weak to do what they need to do. So they make excuses but take no action.

 

I agree with this. However...

 

As someone headed into a separation (and it will finally happen here within the next week, huge relief), it's taken an extremely long time - 8 months - for the actual physical separation to happen from the time I first broached the possibility with my H. The reason for this is twofold: 1) I am 100% opposed to causing unnecessary drama in my children's lives, and 2) I had legitimate reason to believe that my H might harm himself. It has taken 8 months and innumerable hours of MC and IC to get him to the point that he feels he can take ownership of the separation, too, and that it's not just me "kicking him out." This is critical to me in managing the change with my kids, because it's essential that both mom and dad "own" this change in our family.

 

I only bring this up because I suppose, from an OM's point of view, having heard me say in January "my marriage is over," he might be at this point really questioning whether I'm going to take any action. But I have never once wavered from my goal in my head. It's just taken a lot longer to get there than I would have preferred. So, in a sense, I was waiting around for him to buy into it... but I was taking a lot of action -- ensuring he went to IC, going into IC myself to help establish my own boundaries -- to move things along.

[jj33]

I really want to believe him, though...He is the one that said we shouldn't see each other until he can actually SHOW me something has happened. so I don't see how he can mean that he just wants to have sex with me while he's deciding whether and when to file...

 

Yes its understandable you really want to believe him

 

And he did say that he realized "pretending" to work things out was a stupid idea. And what he meant by "rushing" the divorce was filing sooner. He says that his W does not want a D, and is going to wait a few more months to see if she'll change her mind as he's just going to be a jerk to her until then (which I also think is kind of mean). I don't really know what 3 more months is going to do as this is actually what he said he was doing about 4 months ago. He said that he's trying to be a person she doesn't want to be with.

 

Hes showing you who he is again and again and you dont want to see it

 

If things go your way YOU will be the woman he can intentionally be a jerk to because he is passive agressive and cant handle things like a grown up

 

But I don't know, this whole thing is just confusing me and trying to analyze the situation is just stressing me out. I don't really wanna think about it too much anymore and I think I'm just gonna wait and see what happens after the holidays.

 

Didnt mean to upset you just pointing out the big bold red flags. My concerns arent based on his being an MM (for those who sometimes suggest I have become a reformed FOW) My concerns are based on the fact that this guy is passive agressive and manipulative. He shares that stuff with you, you question it but figure hey ho its moving things in the right direction so its OK.

 

Its not OK because this is how he handles life. He acts like a jerk to get his way. Hows that going to make for a happy relationship once W is out of the picture and you are the one negotiating issues with him?

[jj33]

Untold that sounds a whole lot different to me than this situation. Its one thing to say I cant "just leave" or I need to discuss this with my spouse and its going to take us time to negotiate how we are going to deal with the situation etc etc. Its another to say Im going to be a jerk and hopefully she will come around. This guy is passive aggressive down to his bones, based on how the OP portrays him. Maybe hes not but that is how he sounds. Passive aggressive and dishonest in ways that just arent necessary.

[2sunny]

It does seem that our situations are quite similar. He wants me to wait for him and be available for him, while he is still married and not even filing for divorce. He keeps telling me that these things take time, they don't just happen overnight. I do understand a divorce is a lengthy process, but he has not even filed yet...

 

I think I will take your advice and ask him not to call me until he files - which is presumably after the holidays. I do think it's a bit unfair for him to want to call once in a while, just to make sure I'm still available, when he's actually the one that's not available. And I don't want to spend the next few months constantly wondering what is going on with them. This used to drive me crazy. I'm just going to carry on with my life, try not to think about his, but not date anyone just yet. I'm not ready to anyway.

 

Thanks for your comments! He seems so sincere, so I would like to give him one more chance...And if in the end, it turns out that he was not serious and no steps were taken towards the divorce, then whatever. I'll live and get over it. I'm the single one, I can find someone else. He, on the other hand, will be stuck in his unhappy marriage.

 

tell him not to call until the divorce is FINAL! that way you can see if he means what he says... without setting yourself up for all the pain and heartache in the meantime.

 

divorce is a roller coaster. you do NOT want to be involved while he dumps all the emotions he will have have going through it all. that is for HIM to handle. hopefully he will get counseling in the meantime so he doesn't carry his reasons for cheating into the relationship with you.

 

if he doesn't - then he will just be bringing you his same crappy old self into being with you... is that enough? i hope not for your sake.

 

he's selfish. he wants what he wants = at your expense and his wife's expense too. hopefully he can grow and learn in counseling how not to think only of himself so much all the time. if not, you will have a selfish, self centered cheater on your hands once he's free to see you.

 

get busy living in the meantime... divorces can take a very long time to be final - mine took three years... and NO, my exH did not end up with the woman he cheated with... or even the next few gals he dated after i kicked him out.

[Confused4Now]

In my view, the whole let-me-be-mean-and-maybe-she'll-change-her-mind thing is total b.s. and I don't mean betrayed spouse.

 

My ex-AP/MW played that same tune to me for a while, saying she wanted her M to deteriorate to the point where BH would throw up his hands and give up. But he didn't, not even after D-Day. So they are still there, probably neither very happy, but there they are.

 

IMO, a spouse that tries to manipulate the other into taking the first step to end the M is either fearful of the role of the bad guy/gal in the kids' or families' eyes, or just too weak to do what they need to do. So they make excuses but take no action.

 

At least, that was my take on what happened with her.

This is exactly the passive aggressive behavior my xMW took with both her H and myself. However the BS left the house for only 6 months and then came back to stay. She continues to treat him like dirt and lives her life without me but never filed her papers.

[Silly_Girl]

That's what my MM told me as well. That he can't work on his marriage knowing how happy he could be with me. That he's been with his W for 12 years, and never has he been this happy, or even close, with her, so why would that change in the future? He said that there's no way he can go back to the life he had after he found "true happiness." Last week, that would have melted my heart, but after reading so many stories here on LS, I was rather skeptical and even told myself it's probably bull.

 

Good girl. Stay skeptical. The closer (in my view) they come to leaving the harder it gets. If you're prepared for that, and can take it all with a pinch (or bucket!) of salt and stay slightly detached, you'll be fine I'm sure.

[sc58]

Its not OK because this is how he handles life. He acts like a jerk to get his way. Hows that going to make for a happy relationship once W is out of the picture and you are the one negotiating issues with him?

 

I have thought about this as well. However, he has tried to talk to his W and both of them have gone to counseling, but she just does not want a D. He's not waiting for her to take the first step, but rather to agree to a D. Maybe it sounds like I'm defending him, and I guess I am because I just want to believe him.

 

I don't know how our relationship will be if/ when he and I are together, but I guess I can only wait and see.

 

If his W is dead set against a D, what else can he do about it without being a total jerk and kicking her out?

[jj33]

I dont recall whether this guy has children but most people DONT kick their spouses out. They file, they leave, they do all sorts of things but they dont kick the other spouse out. I know in some states its not good to leave the marital home until a financial separation has been agreed because you can be deemed to have abandoned the marital home so in those cases there is NO kicking out.

 

I have friends who have filed for D and had to share the same house with their spouses for YEARS while divorces rolled though the coursts.. so if he's telling you that this is how it has to be, thats not true.

 

Has he seen a lawyer?

 

SC I think the bottom line is you want to believe him. But be very very careful. Hes making the right noises to some degree but hes still not manning up.

 

I can understand that its difficult when a spouse doesnt want a divorce, but if he really does, then at some point he has to take action. Noone can make you stay married to them. He may need "grounds" depending on your jurisdiction, but its certainly not a question of him kicking her out.

[Carrot2000]

I have thought about this as well. However, he has tried to talk to his W and both of them have gone to counseling, but she just does not want a D. He's not waiting for her to take the first step, but rather to agree to a D. Maybe it sounds like I'm defending him, and I guess I am because I just want to believe him.

 

I don't know how our relationship will be if/ when he and I are together, but I guess I can only wait and see.

 

If his W is dead set against a D, what else can he do about it without being a total jerk and kicking her out?

 

 

As far as I know, you don't need your spouse to agree to divorce;MM can go ahead and start a divorce proceeding, serve his wife and get a court appearance scheduled. If she refuses to sign, he will then proceed with a contested divorce and she can explain to the judge why she doesn't agree. Obviously it would be best to have an uncontested divorce, but if he really wants out he will exercise any option available to him to terminate the marriage.

 

Has MM even consulted an attorney?

[sc58]

No, he has not consulted an attorney. And I understand that he can go ahead and start the divorce proceeding and serve his wife, but he doesn't want to do that. He wants it to be a mutual decision so that it will be a smoother and more amicable process. I have never been married, but I can't see myself just filing for divorce and serving my husband the papers when he doesn't want it. That sounds pretty harsh, too.

 

Anyway, I have no idea what goes on during a divorce, so I can't really say anything. I do want to believe him, but I am being skeptical about it. Thanks for your comments!

[Confused4Now]

No, he has not consulted an attorney. And I understand that he can go ahead and start the divorce proceeding and serve his wife, but he doesn't want to do that. He wants it to be a mutual decision so that it will be a smoother and more amicable process. I have never been married, but I can't see myself just filing for divorce and serving my husband the papers when he doesn't want it. That sounds pretty harsh, too.

 

Anyway, I have no idea what goes on during a divorce, so I can't really say anything. I do want to believe him, but I am being skeptical about it. Thanks for your comments!

Are you serious? In a dead marriage where two people have lived separate lives I can see things being mutual....but not this situation at all. I mean who really wants to Divorce I didn't...I could have stayed there and be a cake eater like so many men and women. Bottom line Divorce = death of a marriage, death of relationship. If it's over its over....

[jj33]

SC I wont post any more to your thread as you seem not to want to hear my views. Id say I hope it works out for you but I cant in good conscience encourage you to continue to hope that this is all good news when its so clearly not. I just hope you dont get too hurt

 

but the guy hasnt even consulted an attorney. A man who is serious about a divorce would certainly have done that.

[Dexter Morgan]

I don't agree and think that's silly. Like saying that because someone has an affair they'll have no problem shooting someone.

 

uh, no....its like saying that at all. i think thats silly

 

 

Whatever! Just because an OW sleeps with a man she loves who says he loves her too does NOT mean she has no morals

 

its not moral to sleep with other peoples' spouses

 

 

It does NOT mean she'll stick around while he keeps both women.

 

and it doesn't mean whe won't NOT stick around. posts from OW on this site have proven that they do stick around, WAY too long if they ever do leave their MM

 

I'm a good person who made a bad decision that I certainly learned from. I'm sure you've done the same in life even though it hasn't been an affair.

 

not even close

[whichwayisup]

You give him YOUR time limit. If you haven't filed by (let's for kicks, say by Spring time) then I am walking away.

 

This gives him time between now and end of winter to get the balls to do something. BUT, you have to be prepared to walk away if he doesn't meet your time frame.

[sc58]

SC I wont post any more to your thread as you seem not to want to hear my views. Id say I hope it works out for you but I cant in good conscience encourage you to continue to hope that this is all good news when its so clearly not. I just hope you dont get too hurt

 

but the guy hasnt even consulted an attorney. A man who is serious about a divorce would certainly have done that.

 

Sorry jj33, I didn't mean to make it seem that I'm not listening to your views, because I am. I just don't know anything about getting a divorce, and when he tells me things, it makes sense, but when people here on LS, it makes sense too, which just confuses me more.

 

In any case, thank you very much for your comments. I am not going to completely believe him, and as I said before, will be NC until the holidays are over and I'll just see what happens.