herenow Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Rainy day and I'm waiting for feedback on a project, so here I am. There is always the debate about who the MM really loves. BS want to believe that it's her and OW the same. Maybe the real truth it, he doesn't love either. As a BW had my H told me he loved me while having an affair, I would have been less likely to give our marriage another chance. If he considered having an affair as part of a loving relationship, I would never want love from that man again. At least he was honest enough to admit that he didn't love me then. In reality, our marriage at that time wasn't really filled with love from either of us. True love would have been one of both of us facing the problems in our marraige before it came to the point where we took each other for granted. Now I'm not saying that I'm to blame for his affair, that is 100% on him. But I am admitting that he didn't love me during his affair. That is my take, I'm interested in how other BW's, and OW's feel about a MM and his love for either woman while he is with both. IMO, the MM having an affair doesn't have true love for anyone, including himself.
Author herenow Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 Oh my, I just saw a a thread on infidelity that is about his very topic. Guess I'll go post there.
OWoman Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Rainy day and I'm waiting for feedback on a project, so here I am. There is always the debate about who the MM really loves. BS want to believe that it's her and OW the same. Maybe the real truth it, he doesn't love either. As a BW had my H told me he loved me while having an affair, I would have been less likely to give our marriage another chance. If he considered having an affair as part of a loving relationship, I would never want love from that man again. At least he was honest enough to admit that he didn't love me then. In reality, our marriage at that time wasn't really filled with love from either of us. True love would have been one of both of us facing the problems in our marraige before it came to the point where we took each other for granted. Now I'm not saying that I'm to blame for his affair, that is 100% on him. But I am admitting that he didn't love me during his affair. That is my take, I'm interested in how other BW's, and OW's feel about a MM and his love for either woman while he is with both. IMO, the MM having an affair doesn't have true love for anyone, including himself. My H learned to love himself again through the A. And then, he could learn to love others, too.
Author herenow Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 FWIW, he told me during the A that he didn't love her anymore. He did consider her to be his best friend for a very long time, but even that had ceased for a bit of time leading up to the A. There was one time during the A where he said he felt he might love her, he wasn't sure. This was when things were getting a little better at home, so it was directly related to how they interacted. I believe there was a lot of disrespect on both sides in their M, so that brings me back to lack of respect = lack of love or vice versa. Just the fact that he was having that discussion with you is disrespectful to both women IMO.
BB07 Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Good topic....... I gotta admit that I'm conflicted about this and still think I have a lot to learn about love but I do have some thoughts. True love, maybe pure love is a more accurate of what I think is the ideal love would never hurt the person they profess to love nor would someone who feels pure love betray the other. Pure love genuinely wants what is best for the other and takes the actions required to actively show that. However I think that pure love is very difficult to keep alive throughout the years because we are imperfect and selfish and we lose sight of those feelings because life gets in the way. So we revert to our selfish self's and act accordingly to a watered down version of love. I've heard it said here when talking about mm in affairs that he loved himself more, I disagree in most cases because I think most of us have a conscious and yes even most mm in affairs so therefore most mm probably don't love themselves at all. If you truly love yourself, you will not do things that hurt yourself will you? Just as to truly love someone else you won't hurt them either. So in conclusion (and I probably haven't made a damn bit of sense in the way I've said what I've said) lol I do think that SOME people in affairs feel love for both the BS and the OW, but this kind of love is NOT a pure love, it is based on selfishness and disregard and disrespect for all parties including self, so it is NOT a good kind or rewarding love for anyone. Also.......I do believe that my xmm loved me in his selfish deluded way, but THAT KIND of love is not the kind I want and need. Of course at this point in time, I have no idea what he thinks and he may have convinced himself of something entirely different but what he thinks is not my concern now.
Star_Bright Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I don't know. There is no clear cut situation, that's for sure. There are MMs who don't even claim to love their OW. So how can they love their wife if they are willing to cheat on her for someone they don't even love? There are MMs, like my ex MM, who claim to love OW but not love their wife, at least anymore. (And this is from the OW POV because I have no idea what he was telling his wife. I'm sure he wasn't telling her he loved me and wanted to be with her, like he was telling her, or else why would she stick around and still want to be with him?) And then there are MMs who claim to love both. I guess we are talking about this category? I guess MMs who love both are really the same as those who love neither. Or, yeah, loving only themselves. So how does someone like that change? Here we have HereNow who's husband changed and now loves only her, not ex-OW. And OWoman who's husband changed and now only loves her, not ex-wife. (If I'm understanding both situations right). So how did that happen? How could one man have been with both women and now knows he only loves one, the right way? This is all so confusing to me and makes me glad I'm starting over fresh. I do feel like exMM loved me, in his own messed up way, and that's comforting in a way but then I'm glad I didn't stay with him because I just can't wrap my head around how someone who claims to love someone else can stay in a relationship with someone else. On either side of it. I feel like if I were BS I would just start over. But that's easy to say I guess when I don't have kids and a lot of years married etc. I just don't get how either MM or OW would want to stay with a wavering MM... and yes I'm biased, ha ha, because I chose not to stay. So I'm not trying to say my way is the only right way, I'm just trying to understand what else can happen and why BS or OW would stay or how MM could wise up and really only love one of them in the right way for good. I think this is a good topic that I just can't understand now matter how I try.
Author herenow Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 SB, actually my H has said that he knows he didn't love either of us at the time. He didn't even love himself. He never claimed to love the OW. That was something that bothered her as she did love him. We said our usual "I love you" all the time before and during the affair, but the true love was not there. It took a real commitment, and desire to make our marriage work, from both of us. We had to look deep inside ourselves and our marraige, and make the necessary changes, before we could truly find the love that we have now. Again, if what we had during the affair was love, I rather live without that kind of love.
Star_Bright Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 SB, actually my H has said that he knows he didn't love either of us at the time. He didn't even love himself. He never claimed to love the OW. That was something that bothered her as she did love him. We said our usual "I love you" all the time before and during the affair, but the true love was not there. It took a real commitment, and desire to make our marriage work, from both of us. We had to look deep inside ourselves and our marraige, and make the necessary changes, before we could truly find the love that we have now. Again, if what we had during the affair was love, I rather live without that kind of love. I see. Sounds like you have the benefit of his hindsight which is good! ExMM was full-on in love with me, telling me all the time he loved me and asking me not to leave him. He said that he didn't tell his wife he loved her and that that word hadn't been a part of their vocabulary for a long time. Of course I have no idea if that was true or not. I think that exMM truly THOUGHT he loved me and not his wife. Yet in reality he was too confused to really love either of us. If that makes sense.
jennie-jennie Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 My MM talked about that as late as yesterday. He loves us both, but is only in love with me. Classic "I love you, but am not in love with you" scenario.
donnamaybe Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I would tend to believe the one the MM/MW spends the higher percentage of time with is the one he/she really loves.
Star_Bright Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I would tend to believe the one the MM/MW spends the higher percentage of time with is the one he/she really loves. Hmm, yeah exMM spent almost all his time with me. He would constantly use this as proof that he loved me. "If I don't love you then why do I see you every chance I can get, why do I spend all my time with you even though it takes me away from home and makes my wife upset?" etc. Well... I get that it means he'd rather be with me than her. But I think he was looking to me/us as an escape, and he was really needy, co-dependent I guess, and to me that isn't necessarily love. It's weird, it's like I know he loved me in his own way, but it isn't the kind of love I want. I want the complete kind where he isn't with me because he NEEDS to be or as a distraction from dealing with his problems, but because he loves me the right way. So whenever he said that I would counter with, well, if you love me then why don't you divorced? To which he would counter with, I am getting a divorce. To which I would counter with, well, when? I think he loved her in terms of not wanting to hurt her, and he loved me in terms of always wanting to be with me. Both are rather selfish forms of love if you ask me.
lilbunny Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Before I read a single post the thread title alone made me think 'himself'. I don't know, I suppose in his own way he loved us both as best he could. Sadly I realised very quickly that I'm an all or nothing kind of person and I guess the real answer is that he didn't love either of us enough.
donnamaybe Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Hmm, yeah exMM spent almost all his time with me. He stayed with you over night? He was with you instead of being at work?
Star_Bright Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 He stayed with you over night? He was with you instead of being at work? Note that I said he spent almost all his time with me. I worked with him (he was my boss and it was his firm) so we spent pretty much all of our work time together. Then we would go for a drink or dinner after work and then we would go somewhere else or he would come to my house. He wouldn't go home until midnight or later when he knew his wife would be asleep. So he spent mornings at home with his wife and kids (or, more often, just the kids because his wife went into work a lot earlier than he did) (and, I guess not surprisingly, the mornings at home are what he said he missed the most after he moved out-getting the kids up and making them breakfast etc.), but other than that, we were together. I don't think ours was the typical affair from what I read on here, it was more like he was literally running away from her and into me. Spending every spare moment with me, which wasn't healthy. And after he moved out it just got worse. Then he was with me constantly and I began to see that he was just running to me instead of dealing with leaving her in the proper way. So that's what I meant when I said it was a co-dependent kind of love, not a healthy real, stand-on-your-own-two-feet kind of love.
Silly_Girl Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 He stayed with you over night? He was with you instead of being at work? I thought it meant FREE TIME. 'Cos on that basis I love my boss more than my lover, son, family and friends
donnamaybe Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I thought it meant FREE TIME. 'Cos on that basis I love my boss more than my lover, son, family and friends You have no choice but to be at work, or you won't get paid. That leaves roughly, depending on one's commute, 14 1/2 or so hours in a day. Are you saying that your MM spent over 7 1/2 hours every day with you as well as over 12 hours a day on weekends?
seren Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 SB, actually my H has said that he knows he didn't love either of us at the time. He didn't even love himself. He never claimed to love the OW. That was something that bothered her as she did love him. We said our usual "I love you" all the time before and during the affair, but the true love was not there. It took a real commitment, and desire to make our marriage work, from both of us. We had to look deep inside ourselves and our marraige, and make the necessary changes, before we could truly find the love that we have now. Again, if what we had during the affair was love, I rather live without that kind of love. Yes to this, although H would say (and so would I) that although we loved, we weren't in love. H didn't love himself didn't even like himself. Now, love and in love, we did the deep look, changes, expectations. Just wish we had done it before - hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Silly_Girl Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 You have no choice but to be at work, or you won't get paid. That leaves roughly, depending on one's commute, 14 1/2 or so hours in a day. Are you saying that your MM spent over 7 1/2 hours every day with you as well as over 12 hours a day on weekends? Donna, you asked whether SB's MM spent time with her instead of being at work. Hence my comment.
OWoman Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I would tend to believe the one the MM/MW spends the higher percentage of time with is the one he/she really loves. I think quality rather than just quantity needs to factor in here. When I was a kid, my father spent his "time at home" locked away in his garage, alone, avoiding everyone else. Sure, he was "at home", and by your reckoning, it was time he was spending with his family rather than with anyone else, so therefore, he must love his family, right? I'd say not - I'd say he was there under duress, because my mother insisted he be home rather than out with friends or working late. He was there, but not present. His body may have been at home, but his heart and mind were definitely elsewhere.
September Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I think quality rather than just quantity needs to factor in here. When I was a kid, my father spent his "time at home" locked away in his garage, alone, avoiding everyone else. Sure, he was "at home", and by your reckoning, it was time he was spending with his family rather than with anyone else, so therefore, he must love his family, right? I'd say not - I'd say he was there under duress, because my mother insisted he be home rather than out with friends or working late. He was there, but not present. His body may have been at home, but his heart and mind were definitely elsewhere. Couldn't agree more with this post. There are many marriages that work that way...
GreenEyedLady Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 You know, I tend to say loves himself. But I think it's totally dependent on the MM and the reason for straying. And of course circumstances change. They fall in love with the OW or they fall back in love with their W. I don't think that it's a black and white question. Each person is an individual and as the outcomes vary, so does the answer to the question. GEL
strength-abounds Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 IMO the only "true love" or "pure love" is that between a mother and her child/children. I think we choose to love our W/H/SO.
skylarblue Posted October 26, 2010 Posted October 26, 2010 MM said he loved me for the first time only a couple of months ago after years of being together. He said he’s been in love with me for a long time, but didn’t tell me out right because he didn’t want to f*ck with my head so he tried to tell me in other ways and other than his kids I am the only other joy that he has in his life. Now he tells me he loves me all the time. And although I’m so happy and relieved that he does (I’d never thought he did), sometimes I think that his “love” and my “love” are two different ideas, but he says that I have to look at it from his perspective also to truly understand how much he really loves me. MM has never said that he loves his W. I asked if he did and he said yes, but not in the way a H should love his W. And that he rarely tells her he loves her unless he is backed in a corner to do so. I always knew that he has love for her because I couldn’t see him doing all he does for her if he didn’t, but I don’t think he really loves or is in love with her and I feel like I am alot to blame for that. Honestly, a lot of time I really think MM’s love for me and his W at this point is based more on what we do for him and how we make him feel than who we are.
steelknife Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) he never told me he didnt love his wife. i never asked. but i assumed and asked him just the same; " if youre in a happy marriage, why are you in a relatinship like this with me." xmm said, he never meant for us to get this deeply involved. and i know how true that is. he resisted somewhere few weeks from the beginning but he came back. i slapped him ( i did!!!) for playing with my feelings but he still persisted and came back. i know how hard it was for him to juggle family, work and me but he did because he love me and i was a part of his life. today, where im standing at, after dday. i am very confused and trying to get a grip of the situation. i need to keep my sanity intact. and to hang on to what little is left, i need to believe for 26 months. he DID love me. i know he did. but it just was not enough. ive done many things to make me steady presence in his life. and the bs has taken over now to the extent he doesnt have time to miss me. it is the way she deals with it but i knew he loves me. but i dont belong there. it is too crowded for three. he loves me but it just wasnt enough to stay with me. Edited October 27, 2010 by steelknife
pureinheart Posted October 27, 2010 Posted October 27, 2010 (edited) Rainy day and I'm waiting for feedback on a project, so here I am. There is always the debate about who the MM really loves. BS want to believe that it's her and OW the same. Maybe the real truth it, he doesn't love either. As a BW had my H told me he loved me while having an affair, I would have been less likely to give our marriage another chance. If he considered having an affair as part of a loving relationship, I would never want love from that man again. At least he was honest enough to admit that he didn't love me then. In reality, our marriage at that time wasn't really filled with love from either of us. True love would have been one of both of us facing the problems in our marraige before it came to the point where we took each other for granted. Now I'm not saying that I'm to blame for his affair, that is 100% on him. But I am admitting that he didn't love me during his affair. That is my take, I'm interested in how other BW's, and OW's feel about a MM and his love for either woman while he is with both. IMO, the MM having an affair doesn't have true love for anyone, including himself. I don't believe love can be turned on and off like that. In my case I'm not sure what exDM loved, possibly his stuff, money, kids. It's a strange love though ...it doesn't resemble the love I understand Edited October 27, 2010 by pureinheart
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