Porn

[ComeUndone]

What an ignorant view of women's sex drives! Wayne, guess what? There are women who relish sex just as much as men do. As for masturbation, why do you think vibrators are marketed mainly to women? Your ideas are straight out of Victorian England, when women were believed and expected to have no interest and knowledge about sex. I need sex at least four times a week and I have porn bookmarked on my Blackberry. By your laughably incorrect logic, I must really be a man!

 

It's because he has NO relationship experience.... makes me wonder why he continues to speak for women.

 

** On another thread:

 

Originally Posted by flying:

This is going to come off as snarky, but I assure you that I am genuinely asking a question:

 

Have you actually ever had a relationship with a woman? I really want to know whether you have any real-world personal experience with a real-live human being, instead of hearsay and conjecture based on stuff you read online or wherever.

 

No. Why do you ask? What exactly in my post is it that you disagree with?

_________

 

To the OP: I understand your feelings on his porn use - he has been sneaky, dishonest and obsessive about it. Masturbating itself is normal though, and it shouldn't have to be done with porn as an aid.

 

I agree with LB... the relationship is more like that of mother/son now rather than husband/wife, and it's because of the actions of the both of you. It's a slippery slope at this point: the more you watch him the sneakier he will have to be, so you then watch him even closer... you get the idea. I think he has a real problem, and the answer is not you having to be a warden - that won't fix this. You have to decide if you can live with his porn use, because he's made it obvious that your feelings on it aren't enough to get him to stop. From my experience (real life and seen on this board), men who view porn avidly defend their "right" to watch it, so I don't think there is anything you can say or do (short of divorce) that will make him see any other perspective but his own.

Edited October 27, 2010 by ComeUndone

[Kendrick]

"Porn in my boundary!"

 

emmalee, I think that is wonderful. The reason I say this is, IMO all people should have a boundary, and no one should make you feel bad because its your boundary, but sometimes people will, all because its not their boundary.

 

Some people's boundaries might be if a spouse or partner did drugs or drank. Cheating might be another boundary for someone else etc. There should be deal breakers in relationships, if there weren't, people would be just be caught up in terrible unhealthy cycles, which some are anyway, but that's why I think people should know what their limits are. Don't just settle for something because someone says "all people do it" or tell you should accept it. That would be compromising what you believe.

[LiveWell]

A much more useful and effective "boundary" is not to have reproductive sex with anyone unless and until you are each fully committed to each other, both emotionally and legally (i.e. marriage or legally recognized domestic partnership arrangement), and you know them well enough to be able to knowledgably able to determine whether the two of you will in fact be compatible enough as a family unit to raise a child without constant turmoil and conflict over various issues such as porn, finances, sex, or anything else.

 

It is absolutely absurd for anyone man or woman to have reproductive sex with someone that they're not even in a fully committed relationship with, and then after the fact, talk about "boundaries." You let the guy into your body, you let the guy impregnate you, now you have to raise his child. So that means you are "stuck" in a way that you wouldn't be had you worked all this out, or broken up with the guy, before getting pregnant by him.

 

You think just because you had his child you will now be able to call the tune? Guess again.

[LiveWell]

Sorry for not correcting anyone, no we are not married.

 

Then you need to get married and legalize your relationship pronto. You have a child now, and marriage is in the best interests of the child. If he refuses to get married then you need to get a court order establishing child support, in case he decides to try to split on you and the child.

 

Yeah sucks to be an adult, I know, but that decision was made when you had his child.

 

 

We were not in a serious relationship when I fell pregnant, and we weren't interested in a 'shotgun' wedding.

 

It doesn't matter what you are "interested" in. What is in the best interests of the child? By the way, you didn't "fall" pregnant, you had unprotected sex and that's why you became pregnant.

 

Anyway, the reason I wrote this post is because I was hoping for a black and white answer to why he does this/how to fix it.

 

It doesn't even matter. The porn issue may hurt your ego but it is completely trivial. You are a mom now with a young child and your primary objective should be doing what is best for the child. Causing unnecessary strife with your baby daddy is not best for your child. So you will just have to tolerate his porn/masturbation habits because if you are like most women in your situation you really can't afford to raise this child by yourself.

 

I now see there are so so many shades of grey to this topic, everyone has different opinions, some agree, some don't.

 

There's actually nothing to be discussed. Do what is best for your child, not for yourself. You haven't indicated that your baby daddy's porn use is in any way affecting your child. It provides him with some relief. Your constant nagging is going to cause unnecessary friction in your relationship. You can't afford that. So you will just have to drop it.

 

 

I really don't know. There does need to be a compromise, but I find it hard to believe him. He says he wont look at it now etc etc....I honestly dont believe him. I think he will just wait for my guard to come down & hide it much better.

In the past I have said, fine look at it when I'm not home.

But I still feel jealous, I still want him to wait for me to return

 

Look you're not even sufficiently invested in this man, or in your relationship, to even want to be married to him.

 

You have NO say in his porn/masturbation habits, just because you had his child. All you're doing is nagging him because you're "jealous" of the porn.

 

Did you think that having his child would tie him down to you and you could "change" him or "control" him? If so, a lot of women feel the same way, but it doesn't always work out to their advantage.

 

 

 

 

I agree with the fact that all men look at porn in some way or another.

I just wish they didnt

 

 

Um IMO it's troubling enough that you want to strictly control your baby daddy's access to porn but now you think you have the prerogative to do so for ALL men? Strange.

 

 

 

I love my partner, he treats me well. This is probably the only serious problem we have.

If he loves me like he says he does, why cant he just give it up.

 

Classic female attempt to control a partner by guilting/shaming. "If you do this, it means you don't love me. If you don't do that, it means you don't love me."

 

If you loved your baby daddy, then you would not nag him for his porn use.

 

See it works both ways.

 

In actuality if you really loved and were fully committed to each other you would get married. Neither of you seem motivated to do that, so in reality, both of you have one foot out the door of the relationship. It actually sounds like you're looking for a reason to dump him, and the porn would be the justification.

 

Why is his male impulse/need/visual nature more important than our relationship?

 

If your "relationship" is so important to you, why aren't you insisting on marriage? Esp. with a child.

 

 

 

 

I just keep picturing the movie he had hidden, it is of a young girl, definately not over 18...probably 16.

Although I am only 19, I feel too old for him, he wants a young fresh school girl, and I am 'used goods' as I have had a child.

 

I don't know, maybe he's a pedophile or something? Why on earth would you have his child if you lacked this basic knowledge about his personality?

 

 

 

 

Is that me being insecure or is it what he really thinks?

He obviously desires a young pretty girl, and can orgasm while just looking at one.

 

Yes you are insecure but maybe you put on some baby weight. None of this matters, at all. Because now you're a mom and what you should be focusing on is protecting your child. That means getting married or if you don't want to do that getting paternity formally established and a child support order signed by the court.

 

 

 

 

 

I was 15 when we met, I was the young school girl he lusted over, now he has seen me 10000 times, I am just a piece of furniture.

I just feel I can never be what he wants...

His porn use magnifys this and throws it in my face

 

Well obviously if he likes young teenagers he may not be a pedophile but he may have been a statutory rapist.

 

This guy is going to do whatever he wants to do, any guy who thinks he's entitled to have sex with a 15 year old will do whatever he wants to. When he gets sick of your nagging, sick of taking care of the child, and finds some fresh young meat, he will leave.

 

That will be the end of your porn problem at least.

[Floridaman]

I thought they were married. Looking back more closely, they're just "partners."

Well, it's still a monogomous relationship and they have the responsiblity of a child, so it's very rude and immature of him to carry on that way especially with her doing the labor of childbirth!

 

If you have gone all the way with him to having a child together, might as well get married.

 

Then you need to get married and legalize your relationship pronto. You have a child now, and marriage is in the best interests of the child. If he refuses to get married then you need to get a court order establishing child support, in case he decides to try to split on you and the child.

...

If your "relationship" is so important to you, why aren't you insisting on marriage? Esp. with a child.

 

Live Well, I had similar views and almost stated them (I don't think I could have articulated them as well as you, though), but didn't want to come down on her too hard.

 

HER: I love my partner, he treats me well. This is probably the only serious problem we have.

If he loves me like he says he does, why cant he just give it up.

 

Live Well, your points in other threads about the wisdom in avoiding casual sex - which sounds like what caused her current problems - rings true.

 

HER: We were not in a serious relationship when I fell pregnant, and we weren't interested in a 'shotgun' wedding.

 

She didn't want a "relationship" with him when she gave herself to him seemingly without any resistance as it sounds.

 

Resistance is fine, though it may have frustrated me in my limited monogomous sexual relationships. Someone telling you "no" from going all the way in sex-play makes you think and it did make me respect her and her boundaries.

 

Now she's bonded in one way or another with him for the rest of her life...

Edited October 27, 2010 by Floridaman

[Skylar]

I didn't go back and read every single post but I did read the first 2 pages of this thread. I think the whole porn thing is always a situation that has to be looked at with an open mind. I think I have seen it from both ways and I've decided that it just doesn't bother me. In fact, I enjoy looking at it too because I think it makes me a better lover. It teaches me things that I didn't know before and it also satisfies me when I am feeling frustrated. I am in a long distance relationship so I don't get to have sex very often. He and I both enjoy watching it together and when we do see each other our sex is fantastic.

I was married once to a man with a very low sex drive and I hated that. I would sometimes look at porn but he and I only did that a few times. It made our sex better. I just think that porn can add to a more exciting sex life but it can also help to relieve stress. Maybe some men just need that more than others and as long as they are active with you then it just doesn't seem to be a big deal to me. Jmo.

 

Good luck!

[goingstrong]

This is a beast of a thread. Just like skylar above, I perused the first couple of pages as well and here is my 2 cents from a guys perspective. If a man says he has not masturbated to porn once in a while, then he is lying, a priest, or not typical. This goes for married men as well. It could be worse......just be thankful if your married in a typical husband/wife setting that it is straight porn. The rest of the reasons why he does you have already heard.

[emmalee]

LiveWell I totally agree with this:

A much more useful and effective "boundary" is not to have reproductive sex with anyone unless and until you are each fully committed to each other, both emotionally and legally (i.e. marriage or legally recognized domestic partnership arrangement), and you know them well enough to be able to knowledgably able to determine whether the two of you will in fact be compatible enough as a family unit to raise a child without constant turmoil and conflict over various issues such as porn, finances, sex, or anything else.

 

It is absolutely absurd for anyone man or woman to have reproductive sex with someone that they're not even in a fully committed relationship with, and then after the fact, talk about "boundaries." You let the guy into your body, you let the guy impregnate you, now you have to raise his child. So that means you are "stuck" in a way that you wouldn't be had you worked all this out, or broken up with the guy, before getting pregnant by him.

 

You think just because you had his child you will now be able to call the tune? Guess again.

However, I don't see the rush or need for marriage. To me marriage isn't 'legalizing' a relationship, it's the ultimate act of commitment to each other.

I don't see how us getting married is the best thing for our son.

Whether or not we are married, our son will be supported by both of us. Whether or not we are in a relationship, our son will still be supported by both of us. Our marital status has nothing to do with our ability to competently support and raise our son.

 

I didn't want to get married for the sole reason I was pregnant.

 

Should I have waited till I was in a commited,compatible relationship to have a child? Yes.

 

But it seems to me, that your view is my partner is going to just take off one day.

I must marry him in order to make sure he will support our child.

I must not cause unnecessary strife with my baby daddy, because bringing up an issue I'm unhappy about is nagging him.

And by nagging him I am driving him away, and by driving him away I am ensuring he will not financially support the child.

I will make him have so much hate and resentment towards me that he will refuse to support our son?

 

This may have happened with other couples, but I am sure it will not be the case with us.

I do know that no matter what I do, my partner will be there for our son, his son, and it is silly to say anything I do will stop that.

 

But, in saying that, a child needs both his parents. He needs to see them as a 'union' not enemies.

I dont think that the parents must be in a commited relationship though.

It is possible to raise a child without being intimate with the other parent.

 

My point is I dont see why your pushing marriage so much.

We didn't do this:

know them well enough to be able to knowledgably able to determine whether the two of you will in fact be compatible enough as a family unit to raise a child without constant turmoil and conflict over various issues such as porn, finances, sex, or anything else.

before we had our son.

We should have definately, but we didn't.

I do not want to dive into a marriage for finacial support that I don't need. As explained before I have no doubt my partner will support his son, no matter what happens in our relationship.

I want to do this:

know them well enough to be able to knowledgably able to determine whether the two of you will in fact be compatible enough as a family unit to raise a child without constant turmoil and conflict over various issues such as porn, finances, sex, or anything else.

before marriage.

I know, I know it should have been done before the reproductive sex, but it's too late now.

 

Am I taking this issue too far? Probably

Is him looking at porn really an issue when there are other things for us to discuss like how we would like our son to grow up? Yes

 

I should not be wasting time & effort getting upset over something that is essentially trivial. My main concern should be my son's welfare.

 

So I know all this.

I know me getting this upset at him looking at porn is stupid.

I want this issue to disappear.

My question now is how?

 

How do I be nonchalent about it? I can not stop myself from feeling insecure & unhappy...but I want to.

[emmalee]

She didn't want a "relationship" with him when she gave herself to him seemingly without any resistance as it sounds.

 

Resistance is fine, though it may have frustrated me in my limited monogomous sexual relationships. Someone telling you "no" from going all the way in sex-play makes you think and it did make me respect her and her boundaries.

 

Now she's bonded in one way or another with him for the rest of her life...

Very true.

And yes, I gave my self to him, in all ways with barely any resistance.

I also gave myself to other males, with the bare minimum of resistance.

 

I felt, and still do feel validated when a man wants to have sex with me.

I want to do everything I can to please the man whilst in bed with him, because somewhere in my mind, this will make him 'like' me or even 'respect' me

But I know this is far from true.

 

Maybe this whole porn issue stems from my lack of self esteem.

 

I meet him, and he shows interest. He makes a small move towards me, and I reciprocate by 'going all the way' with him.

Why?

Because it makes me feel 'hot','sexy', etc etc

 

I have no idea why this is how I felt, the only thing I can think of is that I needed someone else to tell or show me I was attractive to them.

Otherwise I felt undesired, and ugly.

Is it society that has made some girls think this way?

That to be loved you must look sexy, you must act sexy....

[Floridaman]

Originally Posted by Floridaman.....

She didn't want a "relationship" with him when she gave herself to him seemingly without any resistance as it sounds.

 

Resistance is fine, though it may have frustrated me in my limited monogomous sexual relationships. Someone telling you "no" from going all the way in sex-play makes you think and it did make me respect her and her boundaries.

 

Now she's bonded in one way or another with him for the rest of her life...

Very true.

 

And yes, I gave my self to him, in all ways with barely any resistance.

I also gave myself to other males, with the bare minimum of resistance.

 

I felt, and still do feel validated when a man wants to have sex with me.

I want to do everything I can to please the man whilst in bed with him, because somewhere in my mind, this will make him 'like' me or even 'respect' me

But I know this is far from true.

 

Maybe this whole porn issue stems from my lack of self esteem.

 

I meet him, and he shows interest. He makes a small move towards me, and I reciprocate by 'going all the way' with him.

Why?

Because it makes me feel 'hot','sexy', etc etc

 

I have no idea why this is how I felt, the only thing I can think of is that I needed someone else to tell or show me I was attractive to them.

Otherwise I felt undesired, and ugly.

Is it society that has made some girls think this way?

That to be loved you must look sexy, you must act sexy....

 

Wow, Emma. That's quite a confession. And much of a revelation of what's in a woman's mind!

 

I know much of what you find on internet boards is BS or someone trying to justify something or act like they're more important or know more than they really do.

 

I don't know everything and don't want you to take what I said as a slap at you or a criticism of how you live your life.

In some ways, I kind of wish I had met a woman like you... I'm just a sexually conservative guy who unfortunately doesn't "get any" anywhere near satisfaction.

 

I say a lot of stuff here, and actually believe some of it.

This board I think has helped me figured a lot out about women.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Floridaman

[NoneTheWiser]

emma

 

I could tell from what you wrote that you’re a very caring and loving person and that you will make one hell of a great mom!! Your son will be lucky to have you as his mom.

 

For all others who might think that looking at porn is no big deal…. I believe that emma is just one of millions of women that porn effects their self-esteem. If they don’t look like the girl in the video or don’t perform like the girl in the video then they feel like they don’t measure up to what a guy wants. Women start imitating what they see in porn only to please the boyfriend/husband in fear that if they don’t they will not love them or leave them. Porn is the most destructive way to learn what a loving relationship should be. I have seen more relationships destroyed by porn then relationship made stronger because of porn.

 

So Emma I believe your moral compass is correct, your feelings are valid and that you should talk with your boyfriend and find a way to help him overcome this excessive habit.

[Floridaman]

Emma,

Hope you won't mind some more advice.

 

Just my opnion but as the poster above me observed, you seem like a loving woman who deserves better.

 

I'm obv. not a woman, but can give you a man's view, honed from experience.

 

You don't need to seek validation for your life in other men. Hold out a little and make them "earn" your love.

 

I'm not a prude or anything (far from it), but like I said, saying no can someteimes be a challenge and "force" a man, if he's really a man who cares for you, to take stock of his feelings for you and express them and then prove them to you by his actions towards you.

 

Don't be so quick to give into them so soon. It kind of disrespects yourself if you're always the first to give in and yet not get much out of it, like this situation.

 

Satisfying a man's sexual urges shouldn't be your focus. Make him satisfy your mind and emotions first.

 

There are other posters here who do or advocate frequent first date sex. Then they wonder why they don't have any great lasting relationships.

 

Though I'm married now (got married in 1996 at 36 years old), I wasn't a success in dating.

Too many times I was told "no" when I asked a girl out and have been told no a couple of times when trying to go all the way sexually with a woman I was doing oral etc. with.

 

You may not believe this, but I decined a couple of offers bec. I didn't feel any love or emotions towards the woman and didn't want another ONS. While it may have physically satisfied me, I knew from experience that going to bed with them would leave me empty and unfilfilled.

 

I'm told I'm good looking. I mention my appearance bec. it doesn't matter what you look like. In fact, I'm attracted to the more "average" looking women vs. the cheerleader and sorority bombshells who wouldn't give me the time of day.

 

I realize it may be difficult to stop trying to gain acceptance or valiadation through sex. You're still young and have time to change and work on a relationship. Being a parent will also change your perspective on how you look at men and potential husbands/ fathers.

 

My half-sister, I heard (I wasn't around her much when she was a teen), was pretty wild before she accidentally became a parent. Now she's a successful mother.

Edited October 27, 2010 by Floridaman

[crazycatlady]

Wow, this is the post I think that really gets the situation...

I do want to control his sexual release, I want all his orgasms with me

 

I don't know why though? I feel so jealous when he looks at porn instead of me, its essentially another woman.

 

Emma - I wish you all the best. I have pondered how to respond to your response to me and I realize I can't. I don't believe in controling a partner. I think its one of the major crimes commited in relationships.

 

I applaud you for sticking to your guns. But you need to stick. Not just nag at him when he slips or throw hissy fits when you find it, like breaking his hard drive. You need to leave if he doesn't give it up if its your boundry. If its that big of a deal.

 

But...I think for your happiness, maybe you should seek some counciling for yourself esteem. A guy's desire for you should not detirmine your selfworth. It must come from within.

[You Go Girl]

Emma - I wish you all the best. I have pondered how to respond to your response to me and I realize I can't. I don't believe in controling a partner. I think its one of the major crimes commited in relationships.

 

 

I don't believe she wants to control him. She wants him to CONTROL HIMSELF.

She wants him to share the boundary she has, which is don't be wacking it to the images and fantasy of other people.

I don't think that's too much to ask.

 

Expecting him to never masturbate is going too far. 100% of men masturbate. Probably only 70-80% "use" porn. THat still leaves only 20-30% of possible partners for women who draw porn as crossing a boundary line.

Could he have a fantasy in the shower? More than likely, yes. Will it be a graphic image of another woman right in front of him? No. It IS different.

[starryeyed12]

Wow, quite a turn out for this! It's good to know we are not alone in this dividing issue.

 

Emma, I feel your pain. It is truly a moral dilemma and internal stuggle that I personally have battled for many years, dating back to my first love. I found my first bf was using internet porn (though we had a very active sex life) and felt many of the feelings you are experiencing. He was very embarassed when I found the sites, and a little ashamed. At the time I was so young I didn't know how I was supposed to feel about it or deal with it, I just knew that it felt like betrayal, and it cut me down inside to make the internalization that my own beauty and our bond wasn't enough.

 

Now, after many years and a few relationships later, I find myself on LS at 2 am reading just about all the posts shared on this thread. Here I am questioning myself once again, and once again finding myself in love with a man who I have come to find out watches internet porn behind my back, even after I calmly and rationally explained how it cuts down our relationship.

 

And yes, it does cut down your relationship IMO. I know exactly when my bf has watched porn. I don't need to ask or snoop. I know bc I can feel the difference in our sex. It's like I am getting half the experience, half the emotion, and half the desire. We have a very strong internal connection and we can sense each others feelings. I can call it immediately when he has recently watched porn. We can read each other, and I can't tell you how it bothers me when I read that his mind is not fully present with me. Sometimes I ask afterward, partly to prove to myself how in tune I am with him and partly hoping he will see that it does have an effect. He fesses up, and it does sting.

 

 

After all my confusion about porn through the years, I dabbled a bit with it myself for a time, and I have come to the conclusion that I can only tolerate very low amounts of it in a serious relationship. It can easily become addicting bc it is so easy to access, and it plays on our most primal desires. Those images, once in your mind, are engraved. I found myself thinking those thoughts or seeing those images even when I didn't want to be; i.e. with a partner. Before porn I didn't have that issue. Also, there is so much sex in movies and TV that I think regular porn viewing is completely unnecessary, especially when you have a loving and giving partner (which you do claim to be) who has no orgasm issues. Only within the last few decades has porn been so easily accessible; hense, the growing dividing opinions on the subject. And, do note that the long term effects on people and relationships remains to be seen.

 

I can say this with certainty: when a man or a woman watches porn they are lusting after the naked bodies of other men or women. This is why we choose to watch men and women whom we find attractive. If it wasn't about lusting then the looks and the actions of the actors wouldn't matter, but they do. This is the truth and this is what stings. This is what becomes the moral issue that only you can decide your take on.

 

Sex, love, just about everything is fueled and controlled by the mind. The mind holds the power. To me, masturbation to porn feels like betrayal because your mind is taken over with lust of another. You willingly chose to let your mind connect with the images and sounds of other people having sex (whom you find physically attractive) to feelings of pleasure, which you let take you to the point of ejaculation. The people are not real in flesh, but they are real on the screen and provoke real human responses within the mind and body. And it is a powerful response, really! The same power is seen when movies make us cry real tears, get angry, or laugh out loud. And this is why you feel insecure, this is why you feel betrayed.

 

Some people are able to block out this kind of response to their partners viewing of porn, or dull its emotional draw for various reasons, which some posters have tried to explain. If you find that you are not able to come to this level, you will have an ongoing issue.

 

I'll end with something to possibly reflect on: Can you control your man's thoughts? Absolutely not. Can you control whether he fantasizes about another person, or if you fantasize about another? Absolutely not. Can you control whether you go online, search for porn sites, and masturbate? Yes, you absolutely can.

 

Good luck, emma! Try to be kind to yourself. You deserve the best.

Edited November 2, 2010 by starryeyed12

[dreamingoftigers]

 

And yes, it does cut down your relationship IMO. I know exactly when my bf has watched porn. I don't need to ask or snoop. I know bc I can feel the difference in our sex. It's like I am getting half the experience, half the emotion, and half the desire. We have a very strong internal connection and we can sense each others feelings. I can call it immediately when he has recently watched porn. We can read each other, and I can't tell you how it bothers me when I read that his mind is not fully present with me. Sometimes I ask afterward, partly to prove to myself how in tune I am with him and partly hoping he will see that it does have an effect. He fesses up, and it does sting.

 

 

After all my confusion about porn through the years, I dabbled a bit with it myself for a time, and I have come to the conclusion that I can only tolerate very low amounts of it in a serious relationship. It can easily become addicting bc it is so easy to access, and it plays on our most primal desires. Those images, once in your mind, are engraved. I found myself thinking those thoughts or seeing those images even when I didn't want to be; i.e. with a partner. Before porn I didn't have that issue. Also, there is so much sex in movies and TV that I think regular porn viewing is completely unnecessary, especially when you have a loving and giving partner (which you do claim to be) who has no orgasm issues. Only within the last few decades has porn been so easily accessible; hense, the growing dividing opinions on the subject. And, do note that the long term effects on people and relationships remains to be seen.

 

I can say this with certainty: when a man or a woman watches porn they are lusting after the naked bodies of other men or women. This is why we choose to watch men and women whom we find attractive. If it wasn't about lusting then the looks and the actions of the actors wouldn't matter, but they do. This is the truth and this is what stings. This is what becomes the moral issue that only you can decide your take on.

 

Sex, love, just about everything is fueled and controlled by the mind. The mind holds the power. To me, masturbation to porn feels like betrayal because your mind is taken over with lust of another. You willingly chose to let your mind connect with the images and sounds of other people having sex (whom you find physically attractive) to feelings of pleasure, which you let take you to the point of ejaculation. The people are not real in flesh, but they are real on the screen and provoke real human responses within the mind and body. And it is a powerful response, really! And this is why you feel insecure, this is why you feel betrayed. QUOTE]

 

I wish you both the best in your relationships. I actually read something about a former pornographer who got out of the industry claiming that they even try to market porn in a way that makes relationships unattractive so that they will end, and then their target demographic will spend more time purchasing and viewing porn. Also part of then reason that computers that download porn often have things left behind on them. I don't think I will ever get how this would be considered to be a relationship-friendly activity.

[Floridaman]

I actually read something about a former pornographer who got out of the industry claiming that they even try to market porn in a way that makes relationships unattractive so that they will end, and then their target demographic will spend more time purchasing and viewing porn. Also part of then reason that computers that download porn often have things left behind on them. I don't think I will ever get how this would be considered to be a relationship-friendly activity.

I can't either, dreaming.

I just want you to know I've stopped viewing pornography. (Thanks to your persuasive arguments you used against it in this thread. And to think, I originally planned to argue against your case...

 

I'm MB'ing of course but not to pornography.

I've gone a week or so without it, and with hope - and prayer - plan to remain off it.

Though I viewed only the foreplay and regular sex, not the threesomes and really sick stuff, still I feel bad about it and feel I lost something of myself.

 

It's a horrible thing and I'm ashamed to admit I partook in it.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Floridaman

[dreamingoftigers]

I can't either, dreaming.

I just want you to know I've stopped viewing pornography. (Thanks to your persuasive arguments you used against it in this thread. And to think, I originally planned to argue against your case...

 

I'm MB'ing of course but not to pornography.

I've gone a week or so without it, and with hope - and prayer - plan to remain off it.

Though I viewed only the foreplay and regular sex, not the threesomes and really sick stuff, still I feel bad about it and feel I lost something of myself.

 

It's a horrible thing and I'm ashamed to admit I partook in it.

 

Floridaman, I hope that you notice a positive difference in your sex life and connectivity with you wife.

 

I too used to view pornography (I am sure most people in my generation will have had a relationship with it at some point) and I felt the same way, mostly though when you are doing it, you don't see what it is doing to you. I think it has left a sad scar on our marriage, but hopefully in time the affects are less and less. My husband seems pretty satisified with our sex life now and not wanting for things unreasonable. It is pretty powerful stuff and the allure is definitely there. When something that is relatively new is being called a "need" I would think that it would be something addictive. Like drugs or the internet. People feel like they "need" it. Really it does not negatively affect our mortality to go without it, and in fact we may be better off (and more emotionally balanced) without it. (No I am not suggesting cancer treatments etc. should be banned, I mean illegal recreational drugs nor am I suggesting that we need to live like the Amish without the internet).

 

I know that the majority of men (well I theorize anyways) are porn watchers and that they feel it augments their life. I think that a lot of them that were exposed to porn very young are really missing out on how physically and emotionally pleasurable a regular sex-life can be with a mate. I know that for myself I could not completely be present during lovemaking with my husband in the early stages and would be left wanting for acts he would not do, and even if he did something close, it would not give me the same physiological reaction. Now that he and I have been porn-free for quite some time, I find the sex to be very great, more personal and fun without just the quick thrust-thrust to get the chemical high. As well, it just "feels" healthier, like switching from fast food to while foods. Fast food may taste really good, but sometimes after you eat it, you just feel awful and bloaty. I hope it works out well for you. Sex in any form shouldn't cause shame.

[starryeyed12]

I wish you both the best in your relationships. I actually read something about a former pornographer who got out of the industry claiming that they even try to market porn in a way that makes relationships unattractive so that they will end, and then their target demographic will spend more time purchasing and viewing porn. Also part of then reason that computers that download porn often have things left behind on them. I don't think I will ever get how this would be considered to be a relationship-friendly activity.

 

Dreaming- Thank you! It's a rough road trying to get those who are not in tune with the effects of porn to really understand. Since my post my bf and I have broken up due to other issues, but this was one that always stung.

 

And I believe it about the porn industry trying to market it in ways that make loving relationships unattractive. It is an extremely powerful and lucrative industry we are dealing with, and it would be naive to believe that they do not plan, plot, and manipulate every facet- from creation to distribution. In the end its all about the money, not your well-being. Sort of reminds me of something....think cigarette companies...

 

Florida, I think your attempts to cut back and rid porn from your life are quite refreshing to hear! Makes me think there is hope for those of us who oppose it to meet someone who will try to understand!

[You Go Girl]

And yes, it does cut down your relationship IMO. I know exactly when my bf has watched porn. I don't need to ask or snoop. I know bc I can feel the difference in our sex. It's like I am getting half the experience, half the emotion, and half the desire. We have a very strong internal connection and we can sense each others feelings. I can call it immediately when he has recently watched porn. We can read each other, and I can't tell you how it bothers me when I read that his mind is not fully present with me. Sometimes I ask afterward, partly to prove to myself how in tune I am with him and partly hoping he will see that it does have an effect. He fesses up, and it does sting.

 

 

After all my confusion about porn through the years, I dabbled a bit with it myself for a time, and I have come to the conclusion that I can only tolerate very low amounts of it in a serious relationship. It can easily become addicting bc it is so easy to access, and it plays on our most primal desires. Those images, once in your mind, are engraved. I found myself thinking those thoughts or seeing those images even when I didn't want to be; i.e. with a partner. Before porn I didn't have that issue. Also, there is so much sex in movies and TV that I think regular porn viewing is completely unnecessary, especially when you have a loving and giving partner (which you do claim to be) who has no orgasm issues. Only within the last few decades has porn been so easily accessible; hense, the growing dividing opinions on the subject. And, do note that the long term effects on people and relationships remains to be seen.

 

I can say this with certainty: when a man or a woman watches porn they are lusting after the naked bodies of other men or women. This is why we choose to watch men and women whom we find attractive. If it wasn't about lusting then the looks and the actions of the actors wouldn't matter, but they do. This is the truth and this is what stings. This is what becomes the moral issue that only you can decide your take on.

 

Sex, love, just about everything is fueled and controlled by the mind. The mind holds the power. To me, masturbation to porn feels like betrayal because your mind is taken over with lust of another. You willingly chose to let your mind connect with the images and sounds of other people having sex (whom you find physically attractive) to feelings of pleasure, which you let take you to the point of ejaculation. The people are not real in flesh, but they are real on the screen and provoke real human responses within the mind and body. And it is a powerful response, really! The same power is seen when movies make us cry real tears, get angry, or laugh out loud. And this is why you feel insecure, this is why you feel betrayed.

 

Some people are able to block out this kind of response to their partners viewing of porn, or dull its emotional draw for various reasons, which some posters have tried to explain. If you find that you are not able to come to this level, you will have an ongoing issue.

 

I'll end with something to possibly reflect on: Can you control your man's thoughts? Absolutely not. Can you control whether he fantasizes about another person, or if you fantasize about another? Absolutely not. Can you control whether you go online, search for porn sites, and masturbate? Yes, you absolutely can.

 

Good luck, emma! Try to be kind to yourself. You deserve the best.

 

Starryeyed, this has been much of my thoughts and feelings on this issue, and I am glad to see your post writing them out so eloquently.

Just when I was starting to think I was nutso, and that I really did have some control freak problem that some men porn viewers (and even some women) will claim that all those against porn have, I find your post. I have known that my self-esteem was never an issue, however jealousy did play a part.

 

I am most interested in that you could feel the difference. How insightful of you to have been that intimately connected that you could zero in on the differences so intuitively!

This is where I agree it is more than likely true in all relationships that have this issue. The relationship might very well be robbed of intimacy and zeal and natural build-up of desire over a few days time period.

I am copying here your post, and am going to save it, because it says exactly what I have been trying to say in many different posts all along.

The devil is always in the details, you sketched them out perfectly.

[starryeyed12]

Starryeyed, this has been much of my thoughts and feelings on this issue, and I am glad to see your post writing them out so eloquently.

Just when I was starting to think I was nutso, and that I really did have some control freak problem that some men porn viewers (and even some women) will claim that all those against porn have, I find your post. I have known that my self-esteem was never an issue, however jealousy did play a part.

 

I am most interested in that you could feel the difference. How insightful of you to have been that intimately connected that you could zero in on the differences so intuitively!

This is where I agree it is more than likely true in all relationships that have this issue. The relationship might very well be robbed of intimacy and zeal and natural build-up of desire over a few days time period.

I am copying here your post, and am going to save it, because it says exactly what I have been trying to say in many different posts all along.

The devil is always in the details, you sketched them out perfectly.

 

Thank you, Girl! I'm happy I was able to help you find some relief and a voice to the feelings that we share. It's easy to get sucked into believing that you are crazy and that everyone else is just having fun and so much happier. The feelings toward and against are complex, and as you can see, everyone is going to have their own opinion and relationship to porn. Stick with what you feel deep down.

 

As for feeling the difference, yes it is interesting. I think that anyone in a serious relationship where one partner views porn and the other does not, has the ability to feel the difference during sex. As I mentioned before, it feels as if you are getting half the experience. With my ex it was his eyes that gave him away the most. There's less passion and desire, there's a closeness that is missing.

 

Just in general, its all about your mental connection to your partner, and knowing how to read each other. That is an art that for some takes time and practice. It involves much more listening (of more than just words) and observing of even the smallest things- little sounds he makes (as an ex. my ex had several different *sighs* and laughs), his nervous habits, and most important his eyes and expressions. The eyes truly are the window to the soul, but only if you can understand what they are saying. The other very important part is to try and become in tune with your own intuition. After taking in all your surrondings, picking up on all the stimuli, just let it sink in, and listen to your intuition with as little judgement as you can.

 

Sorry, a little off the beaten path, but just wanted to share

Edited November 5, 2010 by starryeyed12

[dreamingoftigers]

Thank you, Girl! I'm happy I was able to help you find some relief and a voice to the feelings that we share. It's easy to get sucked into believing that you are crazy and that everyone else is just having fun and so much happier. The feelings toward and against are complex, and as you can see, everyone is going to have their own opinion and relationship to porn. Stick with what you feel deep down.

 

As for feeling the difference, yes it is interesting. I think that anyone in a serious relationship where one partner views porn and the other does not, has the ability to feel the difference during sex. As I mentioned before, it feels as if you are getting half the experience. With my ex it was his eyes that gave him away the most. There's less passion and desire, there's a closeness that is missing.

 

Just in general, its all about your mental connection to your partner, and knowing how to read each other. That is an art that for some takes time and practice. It involves much more listening (of more than just words) and observing of even the smallest things- little sounds he makes (as an ex. my ex had several different *sighs* and laughs), his nervous habits, and most important his eyes and expressions. The eyes truly are the window to the soul, but only if you can understand what they are saying. The other very important part is to try and become in tune with your own intuition. After taking in all your surrondings, picking up on all the stimuli, just let it sink in, and listen to your intuition with as little judgement as you can.

 

Sorry, a little off the beaten path, but just wanted to share

 

As well sex is really emotionally open for us and when we can tell our guy isn't present, it is pretty sad. I had lots of moments like this with my husband to the point where it put me off of sex with him for a bit.

[starryeyed12]

As well sex is really emotionally open for us and when we can tell our guy isn't present, it is pretty sad. I had lots of moments like this with my husband to the point where it put me off of sex with him for a bit.

 

 

It definitely hurts. In the case of the OP, my relationship, and, from the sounds of it, yours as well, our partners use of porn was incredibly selfish...yet another issue that porn can cause.

Edited November 5, 2010 by starryeyed12

[Floridaman]

As for feeling the difference, yes it is interesting. I think that anyone in a serious relationship where one partner views porn and the other does not, has the ability to feel the difference during sex. As I mentioned before, it feels as if you are getting half the experience. With my ex it was his eyes that gave him away the most. There's less passion and desire, there's a closeness that is missing.

 

Just in general, its all about your mental connection to your partner, and knowing how to read each other. That is an art that for some takes time and practice. It involves much more listening (of more than just words) and observing of even the smallest things- little sounds he makes (as an ex. my ex had several different *sighs* and laughs), his nervous habits, and most important his eyes and expressions. The eyes truly are the window to the soul, but only if you can understand what they are saying. The other very important part is to try and become in tune with your own intuition. After taking in all your surrondings, picking up on all the stimuli, just let it sink in, and listen to your intuition with as little judgement as you can.

 

Sorry, a little off the beaten path, but just wanted to share

This is all very true.

I don't think porn contributed to the distance that has crept in between my wife and I, as I wasn't a freq. porn user while we were ML more regularly.

 

She decided to put ML to a virtual halt. We have only done that 4-5X these past four years.

 

I then got more into porn.

 

While I don't think it affected my desire for my wife, it did cause lust issues as I admit I clearly wanted to be with the women in the videos and pictures.

 

I now realize I could have put more effort in trying to get her interested in sex again. I so easily gave up after being shot down time after time.

 

I'd let her go to bed while I went back to the computer...

 

If she found out I was using porn, I'd likely be embarrassed and can see why she would feel slighted.

 

If she asks if I have used porn, I will honestly answer but tell her it was in the past and was done bec. of lack of time with her and how I am trying to keep off it and want to invest more time and my passion and energy with her.

 

I view it as not only wrong, but sinful, and clearly harmful to marriage and my life.

 

I haven't deleted the images from my hard drive yet. That's the next step.

[BlackLovely]

But you're jealous because of your own insecurities - that really doesn't have anything to do with him. That's your own issue that you need to get past.

 

 

of course he would be jealous because you would be actually doing REAL things with another man.

He's WATCHING porn, he's not touching the women in the videos, he's not kissing them, he's watching an IMAGE.

It's not like he knows them, or is trying to get with them, kissing them or cuddling with them.

 

 

Ok, so since you seem to see that as an equal offense.

Does that mean that you wouldn't be more hurt or jealous or rejected if he ACTUALLY kissed or fooled around with a real woman that wasn't you?

 

Does that mean, that if he does that, he's just going to get the usual punishement/drama he gets for watching porn and nothing more?

 

I would assume so, since you seem to see those 2 things as equal.

 

Well said, fellow Canuck. When I saw that people believe that watching porn is akin to kissing another woman, I just shook my head. Sometimes strong emotions can lead to people clinging to laughably retarded ideas.