donnamaybe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 He knows what he needs to tell you or not tell you in order to keep you engagedAnd this is where the honesty or lack thereof comes into play. When someone figures out what their AP wants to hear to keep them coming back for more, how is that honesty? That's called manipulation in my experience.
woinlove Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 But...many times the WS has to tell this kind of lie, because other women often wouldn't consider starting an affair with what they feel is a "happily married man". Or wouldn't consider a relationship with a man that has no intention (reason) to leave his wife. Many OW are looking at the MM as a potential husband in the future. Yes, I think this is true. I've wondered why it is that men in open marriages sometimes complain they have to lie and pretend they are keeping the OW secret from their wives in order to get women interested, while their wives don't have this problem. If the OW are looking for potential husbands, and considering MM, their chances are probably better with someone who is lying to his W than with one who is open and honest with his W.
BlackLovely Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I'm not an OW and I never will be. However, I grew up seeing most husbands in my family cheat, so I think I am well versed on the subject. If a man can be dishonest with the woman he promised himself to and his children, it's pretty silly for an OW to think that she is somehow different. This also applies to OM, of course. A wayward spouse is inherently a dishonest person.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I'm not an OW and I never will be. However, I grew up seeing most husbands in my family cheat, so I think I am well versed on the subject. If a man can be dishonest with the woman he promised himself to and his children, it's pretty silly for an OW to think that she is somehow different. This also applies to OM, of course. A wayward spouse is inherently a dishonest person. you are sitting here talking about never being an OW, and talking about honesty, but correct me if I'm wrong.....didn't you cheat on your spouse or someone else?
Silly_Girl Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 He doesn't need to make her look bad, or claim his marriage is horrible. You're willing to be with him regardless of that. But...many times the WS has to tell this kind of lie, because other women often wouldn't consider starting an affair with what they feel is a "happily married man". Or wouldn't consider a relationship with a man that has no intention (reason) to leave his wife. Many OW are looking at the MM as a potential husband in the future. Ergo, he tells them lies to convince them that his marriage is on the rocks or very very unsatisfying/lonely/etc... A lot of times, they begin to believe their own stories too...it helps them mentally justify their actions once the affair has begun. But none of this is required in your case...in fact, if he DID badmouth his wife, it would probably annoy/offend you and present an obstacle to the affair. He knows what he needs to tell you or not tell you in order to keep you engaged...in your case, he doesn't have to convince you that things are bad in order to keep you in the affair, so he doesn't say those things. Owl, my guy had no tangible clue how bad things were. He'd had one other, short-term convenient relationship. He told himself they were happy because no one shouted, or threw anything. It wasn't a tactic. I have watched him attempt to understand the truth. It has taken a long time. Hopefully not being crass, my man has the highest sex drive of anyone I've been with. If you ased him the top 5 requirements in a relationship, sex would not figure. Crazy. He now realises how crazy that was, but it took a very long time. He wasn't trying to hoodwink me, and can still look back and say 'we (he and wife) did well to get through what we did, and last as long as we did'.
jennie-jennie Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 He doesn't need to make her look bad, or claim his marriage is horrible. You're willing to be with him regardless of that. But...many times the WS has to tell this kind of lie, because other women often wouldn't consider starting an affair with what they feel is a "happily married man". Or wouldn't consider a relationship with a man that has no intention (reason) to leave his wife. Many OW are looking at the MM as a potential husband in the future. Ergo, he tells them lies to convince them that his marriage is on the rocks or very very unsatisfying/lonely/etc... A lot of times, they begin to believe their own stories too...it helps them mentally justify their actions once the affair has begun. But none of this is required in your case...in fact, if he DID badmouth his wife, it would probably annoy/offend you and present an obstacle to the affair. He knows what he needs to tell you or not tell you in order to keep you engaged...in your case, he doesn't have to convince you that things are bad in order to keep you in the affair, so he doesn't say those things. The very first thing he told me when we reconnected after 31 years was that he was happily married. Are you suggesting he knew then already that he didn't need to badmouth his wife to keep me in an affair? Bullsh.t
Owl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 The very first thing he told me when we reconnected after 31 years was that he was happily married. Are you suggesting he knew then already that he didn't need to badmouth his wife to keep me in an affair? Bullsh.t I'm sure that when you first reconnected after a 31 year seperation, he wasn't planning on/grooming you for an affair. He told you the truth. As the two of you got "closer and closer", there was no need for him to change his story...which is what you see tons of MM/MW do...it's exactly what my wife did with her OM, for example. He knew you well enough by then to realize he didn't need to change his story, didn't need to suddenly give his marriage the appearance of going downhill. He knows you well enough right now to know that if he changed his story, or started bad-mouthing his wife that it would probably drive you away, rather than draw you in. But look at where things are at for you right now. You're hearing JUST ENOUGH "change" to keep you engaged...but not enough to make you call "bullsh.t" on him. It doesn't sound like nearly enough change that most of the rest of us think would be required...but it's enough to convince you. I think he knows you well enough to get what he wants from you, without taking any absolute hardcore action or irrevocable decisions concerning his wife. I don't believe he'd "planned" an affair with you from the very beginning...but as things went along, he learned exactly how to keep you engaged. He knows what to say, what will work, and what won't. The difference here is that what you find as "enough" is a little bit different than what most other women would accept. You've often attributed his changes in what he says about the happiness in his marriage (or lack thereof) as being part of a transformation within himself (opening his eyes)...but it's possible that the changes you're seeing are simply what he needs to say/show in order to keep you engaged without actually making a true committment by ending his marriage.
2sure Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Two minutes ago I posted this in a thread on the same subject: When a married person is having a secret affair - no matter what reasons they give or have - they are actively lying to a degree and with such effort and fabrication to someone... That I find it difficult to understand how an affair partner can decide they are being truthful to them. Logistics alone tells one that the OW is even more easily deceived than a BS.
donnamaybe Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Two minutes ago I posted this in a thread on the same subject: When a married person is having a secret affair - no matter what reasons they give or have - they are actively lying to a degree and with such effort and fabrication to someone... That I find it difficult to understand how an affair partner can decide they are being truthful to them. Logistics alone tells one that the OW is even more easily deceived than a BS.It's called self delusion. There's a need to believe certain things in order to maintain the illusions one has about an A in progress. I can't imagine anyone in an A, hoping they will eventually be their AP's one and only, being happy with the thought that they are being lied to just like the BS - well, different lies, but lies nonetheless.
jennie-jennie Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Two minutes ago I posted this in a thread on the same subject: When a married person is having a secret affair - no matter what reasons they give or have - they are actively lying to a degree and with such effort and fabrication to someone... That I find it difficult to understand how an affair partner can decide they are being truthful to them. Logistics alone tells one that the OW is even more easily deceived than a BS. You forget that the OW knows what the WS is capable of, so she has her eyes open and will pick up any sign of such dishonesty.
Owl Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 You forget that the OW knows what the WS is capable of, so she has her eyes open and will pick up any sign of such dishonesty. I've got to say that this is not the case for the vast majority of OW I've seen post on this site. They're typically totally shocked and devestated when they find that they've been lied to by the MM...often to what seems to be about the same degree as most BS's are when THEY find out the same thing.
anne1707 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 You forget that the OW knows what the WS is capable of, so she has her eyes open and will pick up any sign of such dishonesty. Not neccessarily true. Plus the BS will know the WS probably better than anybody (including the OW/OM) - and they do not always pick up on the lies. I think to conclude that you are automatically better at detecting lies is a big assumption.
donnamaybe Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 I've got to say that this is not the case for the vast majority of OW I've seen post on this site. They're typically totally shocked and devestated when they find that they've been lied to by the MM...often to what seems to be about the same degree as most BS's are when THEY find out the same thing. Yes - for all the protestations of "My MM would NEVER lie to ME" we have all seen the stories on LS. So sad.
donnamaybe Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Not neccessarily true. Plus the BS will know the WS probably better than anybody (including the OW/OM) - and they do not always pick up on the lies. I think to conclude that you are automatically better at detecting lies is a big assumption.Is it easier to pick up on lies with your head buried in the sand?
butler89 Posted October 22, 2010 Posted October 22, 2010 Affairs are not honest. And you can not be completely honest in an affair. The very nature of an affair is secretive...so how could you? Relationships or anything for that matter is truly honest when it is in the light of day. I'm not saying every aspect of the person or A is a lie. Some of it is hope, some of it is a wish, some of it is reality, some of it is a coping mechanism for what is going on in your real life etc. It's like a romance while you are on vaction. On vacation, everyone is all sexy, at their relaxed best. Life is just so perfect. You're even acting different. Now take that same relationship back to "real life" that's when you see the level of honesty in it and realness in it.
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