bentnotbroken Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I like these questions. They are something to ponder on. I was once the WS. I regretted it pretty immediately and still do. My motives for being with that OM were not pure. :eek:How can any motives for cheating be pure? Is it how one justifies it or is the so called feelings of love involved?
Owl Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Many WS's don't feel any remorse or regret during the affair...or if they do, it's a tiny, fleeting little thing that they quickly ignore. They FOCUS on the fun that they're having, the good feelings being generated by the affair, and deliberately and intentionally IGNORE those fleeting little moments of conscience that give them short bursts of discomfort. So they're not truly letting themselves feel remorse DURING the affair. Once d-day hits, they have now have to FACE that discomfort head on. They can't ignore it, they can't turn a blind eye to it, they can't bury their heads in the sand any longer and PRETEND that what they're doing isn't hurting anyone. Now the comment made earlier about regretting/feeling remorse for hurting the BS, but struggling with feeling remorseful for 'falling in love' with someone else makes sense too. I can see why it would be hard to deal with those conflicting emotions. But...if the WS ends up staying with the BS and tries to reconcile...eventually there would have to be some level of remorse for the whole affair. If the WS never truly regrets having the affair...then the odds of them doing it again remain high...there is no true basis for reconciliation. But...until d-day hits, I'd say that many/maybe most WS's dont feel a deep level of remorse or regret for having the affair...because they intentionally avoid/suppress those feelings and focus on their own pleasure instead.
confusedinkansas Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I for one don't regret my affair. (I have reasons) Do I feel bad that it came to that - Sometimes. What I do regret is losing all the years that my husband & I both shut down in our marriage. Because I don't regret the actual affair - does that mean I'm going to cheat again? According to some it does. According to me - Never! I have no reason to. I'm too old to go there again. I know all the pain (all too well, still). There's just no point in putting onesself in that situation. IMO
Spark1111 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Not in my world. Remorse is paying for your action, regretting you did it because you now have to pay. It is a no-brainer the BS will be hurt by an affair. If that didn't matter during the affair... It didn't....not one iota...needed to talk himself OUT OF HIS LOVE FOR ME...diminished it entirely to himself and his AP...rarely a blip on his/their radar during the affair. Maybe this is a necessary component of an affair? I don't know. Have never had one. Now, when DDAY hit, and I read their passionate texts promising each other a future someday, he was given carte blanche to do exactly that...Told the world we were done. I was moving on. Wished him and her well...even told my children to treat her with respect. No one was more stunned than I when ithat scenario became absolutely the last thing he wanted. The reality of our situation, our love and devotion to each other, was conveniently re-written I guess, to allow him to permit himself to engage in an affair. I think this is also often a component to some affairs. Was it fun, exciting, all-consuming? I am sure it must have been! Did it fill some unmet needs of his? Of course it did. Is he sorry he engaged in it? With every bone in his body...when he still does not have to do that to placate me and our relationship in any way, shape or form. It just is.....
Spark1111 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Many WS's don't feel any remorse or regret during the affair...or if they do, it's a tiny, fleeting little thing that they quickly ignore. They FOCUS on the fun that they're having, the good feelings being generated by the affair, and deliberately and intentionally IGNORE those fleeting little moments of conscience that give them short bursts of discomfort. So they're not truly letting themselves feel remorse DURING the affair. Once d-day hits, they have now have to FACE that discomfort head on. They can't ignore it, they can't turn a blind eye to it, they can't bury their heads in the sand any longer and PRETEND that what they're doing isn't hurting anyone. Now the comment made earlier about regretting/feeling remorse for hurting the BS, but struggling with feeling remorseful for 'falling in love' with someone else makes sense too. I can see why it would be hard to deal with those conflicting emotions. But...if the WS ends up staying with the BS and tries to reconcile...eventually there would have to be some level of remorse for the whole affair. If the WS never truly regrets having the affair...then the odds of them doing it again remain high...there is no true basis for reconciliation. But...until d-day hits, I'd say that many/maybe most WS's dont feel a deep level of remorse or regret for having the affair...because they intentionally avoid/suppress those feelings and focus on their own pleasure instead. And sometimes, those suppressed feelings of remorse and intentional avoidance comes back at times to really slam a WS much harder than required by any BS to reconcile. Sometimes self-forgiveness is the hardest to procure. In fact, it can actually impede healing in a happy relationship.
Owl Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I for one don't regret my affair. (I have reasons) Do I feel bad that it came to that - Sometimes. What I do regret is losing all the years that my husband & I both shut down in our marriage. Because I don't regret the actual affair - does that mean I'm going to cheat again? According to some it does. According to me - Never! I have no reason to. I'm too old to go there again. I know all the pain (all too well, still). There's just no point in putting onesself in that situation. IMO My opinion...and this is only my opinion...is that if you truly don't regret the affair, and you only regret that 'your marriage got shut down'...this to me would be a big red flag, and if I were your BS the odds are pretty high that we could have never reconciled. If you don't regret it, if you don't feel that it shouldn't have happened, if there's no remorse for having done so...to me...there's no basis for reconciliation. I'd have walked. I understand that you and your H did find a basis for reconciliation, and that's great. Don't take me wrong. It's awesome that he was able to forgive you even in light of that. I personally would have felt much differently. But again...that's just my opinion, and only that.
blizzard Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) I have been following this post off and on...can't say I have read all of it I wonder about this love thing... I believe that the BS that do believe that they are still truly loved during an affair would have a change of heart if they were actually physically "there" during the affair. If they could see and hear what really goes on. If they could see the person they thought they knew, the one they thought loved them and how they portrayed themselves with the AP during the affair. The intimacy. The words of affection. The physical affection. The I love you's. The badmouthing of them. If BS could hear the promises WS spills. Listens to how the WS wants to escape their marriage. To be there when he is on the phone lying to BS about his whereabouts... Now whether the WS is lying to OW/OM or not in saying or doing those things...what does it matter? To hear those things fall from the lips of their own spouse or to see their love affectionately, intimately given away... In all seriousness, emotional affairs are deep. Very deep. If they could "see" the relationship...whether it is a lie or not. If they could be there like the scrooge in a charles dickens tale. To secretly see this behavior. I think that is why OW/OM are so candid about the WS not loving their spouse. Because OW/OM are in a place that shows them disrespect their marriage and their BS. I just don't believe they truly love their spouse... And I don't think many could rebuild their marriage if they did. Edited October 21, 2010 by blizzard
donnamaybe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 My opinion...and this is only my opinion...is that if you truly don't regret the affair, and you only regret that 'your marriage got shut down'...this to me would be a big red flag, and if I were your BS the odds are pretty high that we could have never reconciled.But do you think she actually TOLD her H she didn't regret the A? I'm thinking most likely not. I mean, who would assume their spouse would stay if they told them something like that? I sure wouldn't were I in that position. I would expect my H to show me the door.
Owl Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I have been following this post off and on...can't say I have read all of it I wonder about this love thing... I believe that the BS that do believe that they are still truly loved during an affair would have a change of heart if they were actually physically "there" during the affair. If they could see and hear what really goes on. If they could see the person they thought they knew, the one they thought loved them and how they portrayed themselves with the AP during the affair. The intimacy. The words of affection. The physical affection. The I love you's. The badmouthing of them. If BS could hear the promises WS spills. Listens to how the WS wants to escape their marriage. To be there when he is on the phone lying to BS about his whereabouts... Now whether the WS is lying to OW/OM or not in saying or doing those things...what does it matter? To hear those things fall from the of their own spouse's lips or to see their love affectionately, intimately given away... If they could "see" the relationship...whether it is a lie or not. If they could be there like the scrooge in a charles dickens tale. To secretly see this behavior. I think that is why OW/OM are so candid about the WS not loving their spouse. Because OW/OM are in a place that shows them disrespect their marriage and their BS. I just don't believe they truly love their spouse... And I don't think many could rebuild their marriage if they did. Interesting thought...but then again it works back the other way as well. How many OW/OM would believe that the WS was in love with them if they were "there" in the marriage? If they could see what was actually going on in MM/MW's lives inside the marriage, inside the home, etc...? Or especially if they were "there" on d-day? I know that my wife minimized the heck out of her interactions with OM to me...she had to, in order to maintain her affair with him. Had he heard how she described him/her relationship/feelings towards him, I highly doubt he would have felt overly loved at the time either. The WS says/does what they have to in order to maintain the status quo on both sides...
Author thomasb Posted October 21, 2010 Author Posted October 21, 2010 Blizzard, not every affair has intimacy involved. No words of love exchanged etc. Have you never heard of FWB? I know in my case I never once told OW I loved her. Or ever implied it either. I have said those words to only a few people. My mother, children and wife.
jthorne Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Blizzard, not every affair has intimacy involved. No words of love exchanged etc. Have you never heard of FWB? I know in my case I never once told OW I loved her. Or ever implied it either. I have said those words to only a few people. My mother, children and wife.Question for you: Would you have considered your A a real affair, or a NSA agreement between two people that you later regretted? I ask because I think people, especially some OW here get caught up on that distinction in regards to you specifically. Sort of off-topic, but I think that some OW here automatically assume that if the term "affair" is used, then intimacy is implied.
silktricks Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Not in my world. Remorse is paying for your action, regretting you did it because you now have to pay. It is a no-brainer the BS will be hurt by an affair. If that didn't matter during the affair... Come on, Jennie... Yes, of course it is a no-brainer the BS will be hurt by an affair, but it's also true that some WS have an affair FOR THAT VERY REASON. They are angry. Angry that they no longer feel like they are important to their spouse. It does not follow, however, that remorse is due to being caught, or being now in a position of "paying" for your action. Sometimes remorse is caused by this, but to assume that this is the only, or even the foremost reason for remorse is sad at so many levels. Remorse may be due to many things, for example: 1. realization that your anger was misdirected 2. realization of the depth of pain you caused 3. realization that you have injured your own opinion of yourself 4. realization that you can never rewind and repeat 5. realization that everyone you touched, everyone you cared for, including your AP, has been injured. etc.... Lots of reasons for remorse.
carhill Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 TBH, I'd have as much trouble reconciling with a spouse who used another human being as a receptacle (sexual or emotional) without care as I would with someone who 'loved' someone else. Using people, for myself anyway, goes to the core of incompatibility. To know that someone has the ability to be that disconnected tells me that they can be or resume that behavior in the M at any time. However, let's go with that..... say a MM pays prostitutes for sex. He's not having an 'affair' in the classic sense and he doesn't 'love' the hooker. Is that an instance where he could 'love' his wife and still cheat? Is paying prostitutes for sex cheating? If not, is it healthy for the M? Many potentials
silktricks Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 The WS says/does what they have to in order to maintain the status quo on both sides... The point is, as always, that while in an affair, the #1 priority for the WS is not either the spouse/marriage OR the AP/affair, but the WS and their own desires/needs. It's seems that it's only when the affair is OVER that the WS is able to decide where their heart really belongs - with the spouse, the AP, or neither.
donnamaybe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 It does not follow, however, that remorse is due to being caught, or being now in a position of "paying" for your action. Sometimes remorse is caused by this, but to assume that this is the only, or even the foremost reason for remorse is sad at so many levels. It may be necessary to believe that, however, in order to be able to believe there is no love for the BS.
Owl Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 TBH, I'd have as much trouble reconciling with a spouse who used another human being as a receptacle (sexual or emotional) without care as I would with someone who 'loved' someone else. Using people, for myself anyway, goes to the core of incompatibility. To know that someone has the ability to be that disconnected tells me that they can be or resume that behavior in the M at any time. However, let's go with that..... say a MM pays prostitutes for sex. He's not having an 'affair' in the classic sense and he doesn't 'love' the hooker. Is that an instance where he could 'love' his wife and still cheat? Is paying prostitutes for sex cheating? If not, is it healthy for the M? Many potentials What you say makes sense. And...we all know that there are many "reasons" that people cheat. Some are for emotional satisfaction...some for physical. Many are a mix of both, of course. I view both as cheating...as a violation of the agreemants/vows/promises made between the spouses. I find both equally wrong. I find both equally hard to "forgive". I also feel that there may still be "love" between the WS and BS...but clearly the WS is acting selfishly and against the welfare of the marriage/BS in either case. In the moments that they're pursuing that 'infidelity'...physical or emotional...they're not acting out of love for the BS. That's true. But those are moments when their focus is on that activity, not the BS. There are also moments when their focus IS on the BS...and they do act out of love for that person as well. Its that compartmentalization thing again. We all do it to some degree or another...and some people do it a lot more than others. The baseline question is "can you still love and cheat". The answer (to me) is yes you CAN. It doesn't always happen that way, but it does happen often. The people who do so are better at compartmentalizing their lives than others. I don't believe that the WS always remains in love with the BS...but they may or may not, depending on a lot of factors.
kuma Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I just don't believe they truly love their spouse... And I don't think many could rebuild their marriage if they did. I think some WS realize they love their spouse, when they see their spouse in pain...
Author thomasb Posted October 21, 2010 Author Posted October 21, 2010 Jthorne, sorry for sounding ignorant, but what does NSA mean. I haven't heard the term before. Owl, I agree, Any time you expend thoughts and energy outside the marriage, its an affair.
carhill Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 NSA = no strings attached, which essentially is mutual receptacles, neutralizing gender. As a man, for me, that would be blow a load and not recognize the person I was with as anything more than a receptacle for that load. Kinda coarse sounding, but that's my understanding. Enjoy the moment irrespective of the interpersonal dynamic. She's hot, I'm horny and she said yes. Done.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 My opinion...and this is only my opinion...is that if you truly don't regret the affair, and you only regret that 'your marriage got shut down'...this to me would be a big red flag, and if I were your BS the odds are pretty high that we could have never reconciled. EXACTLY what I thought. But if you know her story, her BS doesn't care and seems to have a laissez-faire attitude about her cheating. only way I'd have that kind of attitude if someone cheated on me is if I simply didn't hold my relationship with that person in very high regard. If you don't regret it, if you don't feel that it shouldn't have happened, if there's no remorse for having done so...to me...there's no basis for reconciliation. I'd have walked. again, I don't think her BS really gets too excited about their marriage to care one way or the other based on her descriptions. I personally would have felt much differently. But again...that's just my opinion, and only that. I'm mean really. Apparently CIK has told her BS that she doesn't regret the affair and doesn't really feel bad about it. Can you imagine him just shrugging his shoulders and saying, "thats ok if you don't regret it and don't wish it never happened.....now wheres the remote":o
Dexter Morgan Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 But do you think she actually TOLD her H she didn't regret the A? I think she posted where she did, sorry, if she did tell this forum she told him that, I just don't believe it. Again, unless her husband just doesn't care.....about anything.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I think some WS realize they love their spouse, when they see their spouse in pain... I think they realize they love their spouse when they look at all they stand to lose, and I'm not talking about the relationship
carhill Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 But those are moments when their focus is on that activity, not the BS. There are also moments when their focus IS on the BS...and they do act out of love for that person as well. Yes, my EA reflected some of this, so, in the most absolute sense, which may be repetitive (long thread) I *could* say I still 'loved' my ex while in the midst of a very elemental and long-lived dynamic with someone else. However, by *my* standards of what love for spouse should entail, both emotionally and in action, my 'love' was an impotent and unworthy shell of what it had once been, and should be. What's interesting here, and why I enjoy the debate, is how we each separate out emotions and perspectives in our psyche. It's fascinating stuff. A far cry from the unhealthiness of and regret for that time and place where it happened, for myself anyway. Thanks for your insight
Author thomasb Posted October 21, 2010 Author Posted October 21, 2010 I've always liked a good debate as long as they don't degenerate into a slinging match.
donnamaybe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I think she posted where she did, sorry, if she did tell this forum she told him that, I just don't believe it. Again, unless her husband just doesn't care.....about anything. Not in this thread. She merely said she doesn't regret it - not that she told the H.
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