PhoenixRise Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 But what if you are sorry the affair hurt your spouse but not sorry you had the affair? Would that be acceptable to you? If that is how the WS feels fine. Be truthful about it and divorce your BS. IMO if you are staying in the marriage but you are saying that you are not sorry you had the affair and are only sorry for the spouse's pain, that is just another way to say you are sorry you got caught. And a person who feels that way would probably still be cheating if they didn't get caught. No growth there.
donnamaybe Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I'm pretty sure it is widely known that people most often create for themselves the same relationship they watched in their formative years.
donnamaybe Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Well, not only am I too lazy for that, I'm not clever enough either.No one is - honestly.
Author thomasb Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 Donna, not always true or I would have been physically abusive as a parent. My mother was. I was put in foster care 2 times because of her beatings when I was small. Just goes to show there are no absolutes as I have stated was the reason for starting this thread.
JustJoe Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 It seems to me that we are drifting off the subject here. It has become a study of guilt vs remorse, and victims and perps. To get back to the original subject. Of course you can love and still cheat, but that "love", is a generic kind and not the love a man should have for his wife, or a woman should have for her husband. It is the "love", for the familiar and mundane. Pretty much every WS here, has stated that they were looking for something else. So what was it? Passionate "love", maybe? More understanding, more communication, better sex, more respect? Whatever it is that people are missing in their marriages, if they truly respected and was "in Love", with their SO, the affair wouldn't have happened. You can "love ", many things , people, and even ideas, but you can only be in love with one at a time. So if you are a cheater, you do not have the Love for your spouse, that you should have. Whenever I hear someone say that they are in love with their SO and their AP equally, I say, "horse****".
Author thomasb Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 JJ, You are once again talking in absolutes. That is impossible given the human condition. We all have unique thoughts and life experiences and expectations. By the way, although my wife was familiar to me, she and our marriage was and is so far from mundane as to be funny. That can't happen with four boys in the house! And it amazes me to have another person try and tell me what my thoughts and feelings are. No one but me knows them. It is impossible for anyone to tell what another thinks. And I know I did love my wife.
Author thomasb Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 By the way, as I stated, I was only in love with one person... my wife.
seren Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 "A better man" learns from his mistakes and makes sure not to repeat them, but he doesn't go around being remorseful and apologetic for years. Yuch. Sorry Jennie, but a better man doesn't have A's, if he does, then he owns up to it. A better man doesn't string two women along, a better man makes a decision, sticks to it and follows through on promises made. Not everyone is able to continue deceit without feeling remorse, guilt or at times hate the person they were. personally, I would much rather have a man who owned up to his A, took it on the chin and worked at showing remorse for his actions. If the comment made was in relation to my H, then you have absolutely no idea what the effect of seeing your friends blown up in front of you and feeling powerless can do to a person. I hate that my H feels the way he does, but he does and frankly, he is a far better man for his honesty, in fact, I don't know of a better one. Knowingly sharing a man for years with no light at the end of the tunnel. Yuch and more Yuch. But it floats your boat, so there you go.
donnamaybe Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 Donna, not always true or I would have been physically abusive as a parent. My mother was. I was put in foster care 2 times because of her beatings when I was small. Just goes to show there are no absolutes as I have stated was the reason for starting this thread.That's for people who have resolved their issues. For those that have not, what I said more often than not holds true.
YellowShark Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 So if you are a cheater, you do not have the Love for your spouse, that you should have. Whenever I hear someone say that they are in love with their SO and their AP equally, I say, "horse****". I agree. The part of love which is the passion and emotion that is supposed to be directed towards your significant other is now directed at the AP. So the relationship/marriage suffers greatly. The WS then subconsciously distances themselves from the spouse. At least thats how I see it.
Author thomasb Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 Seren, you are right on the money. And I have an idea you have become stronger through your trials together. God Bless
Dexter Morgan Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I meant, that BSs often want to perceive themselves as victims and the WSs and perpetrators and I do not think that is in the best interest of the healthy marriage. healthy marriage or not, that is how it is. The BS is a victim of the perpetrator, the WS. but there comes a time where the BS should no longer consider themselves a victim, its really a short term state of being. I'd say on any given d-day, the BS is a victim, then there is a time that goes by of confusion, grieving, etc...but once the BS makes a decision one way or the other, that is when the are no longer the victim because they shouldn't allow themselves to be victimized. but the WS still will always be the perp;)
anne1707 Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 I agree with you Dex My H is not a victim and will not allow himself to be one. He chose to stay with me because it was what he wanted and he believed we could make it work. As for me - I did wrong and there is no escape from that. If I just dismissed that then my H would quite rightfully walk.
LoveAintEverything Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 You know in my experiences and many of my friends, nope...you cannot love someone and go a head and cheat on them...it is basically impossible
aerogurl87 Posted October 20, 2010 Posted October 20, 2010 So you didn't really love him, because that's not really love. Love = respect, honesty, putting the other person first, all of the things you just admitted you didn't have for him when you were cheating on him. So you did NOT love him. I'm confused as to what you mean. Oh no I loved him, like he loved me. It's just that I loved myself alot more, like he loved himself more than me. Two selfish people does not make for a happy relationship, although I would've been happy with an open relationship with him.
crazycatlady Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 What I find interesting is everyone is so busy saying "oh you couldn't possibly feel that" about all sides. My husband loved me during his affair. He also loved her. This was the problem. This is why it was an affair, and him leaving me or him not being interested in her. He loved me just as much as he did before the affair as he did during the affair. He wasn't loving to me by his lies, but his emotional bond to me, his physical desire to me, etc etc was always there. It wasn't forgotten, it wasn't missing, it wasn't lesser, it didn't fade don't care what word you want to use, it was there. One difference was when we did have a small arguement during his affair, the affair gave him an outlet for a vent and the vent desire to run away with OW made the affair bond stronger. In the hidden darkness of the affair he was bonded to her. They had a bond of betrayal over me. A bond of selfishness that I do not and have not ever shared with either of them. It was a selfish love between the two of them. But while selfish love I think is important for maintaining a long term relationship, it can't be the only love for a LTR. And that's all they had and when the light of day hit, it eventually crumbled. And the very quality that attracted him to her eventually repulsed him. I definately believe you can love more then one person. And definately can hurt the one you love. A lot. And have different types of love for different partners and be unable to make a choice....especially when its in the dark. People make mistakes, and repeat them over and over. I look at his affair the same way I look at my trying to lose weight and slipping over and over. He's selfish and I'm lazy. But hell we keep trying. CCL
on a learning curve Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 What I find interesting is everyone is so busy saying "oh you couldn't possibly feel that" about all sides. My husband loved me during his affair. He also loved her. This was the problem. This is why it was an affair, and him leaving me or him not being interested in her. He loved me just as much as he did before the affair as he did during the affair. He wasn't loving to me by his lies, but his emotional bond to me, his physical desire to me, etc etc was always there. It wasn't forgotten, it wasn't missing, it wasn't lesser, it didn't fade don't care what word you want to use, it was there. One difference was when we did have a small arguement during his affair, the affair gave him an outlet for a vent and the vent desire to run away with OW made the affair bond stronger. In the hidden darkness of the affair he was bonded to her. They had a bond of betrayal over me. A bond of selfishness that I do not and have not ever shared with either of them. It was a selfish love between the two of them. But while selfish love I think is important for maintaining a long term relationship, it can't be the only love for a LTR. And that's all they had and when the light of day hit, it eventually crumbled. And the very quality that attracted him to her eventually repulsed him. I definately believe you can love more then one person. And definately can hurt the one you love. A lot. And have different types of love for different partners and be unable to make a choice....especially when its in the dark. People make mistakes, and repeat them over and over. I look at his affair the same way I look at my trying to lose weight and slipping over and over. He's selfish and I'm lazy. But hell we keep trying. CCL Great post! Great insight.
jennie-jennie Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 If that is how the WS feels fine. Be truthful about it and divorce your BS. IMO if you are staying in the marriage but you are saying that you are not sorry you had the affair and are only sorry for the spouse's pain, that is just another way to say you are sorry you got caught. And a person who feels that way would probably still be cheating if they didn't get caught. No growth there. Phoenix, what if the WS has ended the affair and decided to stay married, reveals all to the BS voluntarily (without being caught) but still only is sorry for the hurt caused not for having the affair?
JustJoe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 JJ, You are once again talking in absolutes. That is impossible given the human condition. We all have unique thoughts and life experiences and expectations. By the way, although my wife was familiar to me, she and our marriage was and is so far from mundane as to be funny. That can't happen with four boys in the house! And it amazes me to have another person try and tell me what my thoughts and feelings are. No one but me knows them. It is impossible for anyone to tell what another thinks. And I know I did love my wife.That's why it's a Great Country, Thomas, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine.BTW I wasn't aware that I singled you out or anything.
jennie-jennie Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I am sorry he was selfish and felt sorry for himself and felt entitled to it in his immaturity. And he is a better man today. Remorseful, caring, apologetic. "A better man" learns from his mistakes and makes sure not to repeat them, but he doesn't go around being remorseful and apologetic for years. Yuch. Sorry Jennie, but a better man doesn't have A's, if he does, then he owns up to it. A better man doesn't string two women along, a better man makes a decision, sticks to it and follows through on promises made. Not everyone is able to continue deceit without feeling remorse, guilt or at times hate the person they were. personally, I would much rather have a man who owned up to his A, took it on the chin and worked at showing remorse for his actions. If the comment made was in relation to my H, then you have absolutely no idea what the effect of seeing your friends blown up in front of you and feeling powerless can do to a person. I hate that my H feels the way he does, but he does and frankly, he is a far better man for his honesty, in fact, I don't know of a better one. Knowingly sharing a man for years with no light at the end of the tunnel. Yuch and more Yuch. But it floats your boat, so there you go. I am not sure, but I believe you didn't understand that the expression "a better man" that I used was borrowed from Spark's post, where she stated her husband was a better man post the affair. It had nothing to do with your post or your husband. I was just trying to explain what I meant with the red flags.
Pillow Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I do believe you can love someone and cheat on them. For all the naysayers: Ask yourself: Have you loved someone and be disrespecful towards them? (them to encompass all genders) Have you ever loved someone and was mean to them at the same time? Been inconsiderate? Agitated? Aggressive? Angry? Spoiled? I once told a partner I cared deeply about that he was a controlling jac***s to his face and then dumped pickle relish all over him but that doesn't mean that I didn't love him during the time that I was being mean, inconsiderate and feisty. Some people are saying the WS can't have loved their BS because the love isn't "pure love": love to protect/shield. Love that isn't selfish. They forget: pure, (perfect) love is extremely difficult to be manufactured by imperfect humans. How can an imperfect being manifest perfect love towards another imperfection? It doesn't work. At some point, the love will become tainted with our sins and imperfections, but that doesn't mean that love didn't exist during the time.
jennie-jennie Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 JJ, You are once again talking in absolutes. That is impossible given the human condition. We all have unique thoughts and life experiences and expectations. By the way, although my wife was familiar to me, she and our marriage was and is so far from mundane as to be funny. That can't happen with four boys in the house! And it amazes me to have another person try and tell me what my thoughts and feelings are. No one but me knows them. It is impossible for anyone to tell what another thinks. And I know I did love my wife. By the way, as I stated, I was only in love with one person... my wife. No reason why you shouldn't have been in love with your wife the whole time being it was only a short term affair. Was it for sex only?
PhoenixRise Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Phoenix, what if the WS has ended the affair and decided to stay married, reveals all to the BS voluntarily (without being caught) but still only is sorry for the hurt caused not for having the affair? IMO it is very easy to say you have no regrets if you never actually have to face the devastation of your BS when an affair is discovered. After all, the illusions your spouse and family have about you and your character are still firmly intact. No consequences = no regrets. Very cowardly and self indulgent to boot.
Fieldsofgold Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 To me, saying you loved your spouse even while cheating on him/her, is similar to saying an abusive parent loves a child, even while abusing it. True? Or not? I don't know. But I do know it's not the kind of love I want.
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