Can you love and still cheat?

[thomasb]

Anne, I agree with you on the fact that during the affair I may have lost sight of how much I loved my wife, or that I could possibly lose her for it. I really don't think people involved in affairs think too much about the consequences. They either believe they will not be caught, or in my case that the guilt and disgust won't eat them up.

But, I really don't like that people try tell me I did not love my wife. I state emphatically that I did. Deeply. Still do. Always will.

[donnamaybe]

What would the red flags be for? That someone still feels remorseful or apologetic for having an A, hurting their family, after 2.5.years?

My H hates what he has done, hates himself sometimes, for being the man he was during the A - personally I wish he wouldn't and didn't, but he does. I support him with these feelings, but his feeling of self loathing about what he did remains.

 

Perhaps I read your comment wrong, or perhaps I am missing something.

No, hon. You are certainly not the one missing something.

 

It's NORMAL for someone to look back on something they have done wrong and feel badly about it, regardless of the length of time that has passed. Of course they shouldn't still be literally wallowing in guilt over it, but feeling remorseful and apologetic would be NORMAL.

[thomasb]

What would the red flags be for? That someone still feels remorseful or apologetic for having an A, hurting their family, after 2.5.years?

My H hates what he has done, hates himself sometimes, for being the man he was during the A - personally I wish he wouldn't and didn't, but he does. I support him with these feelings, but his feeling of self loathing about what he did remains.

 

Perhaps I read your comment wrong, or perhaps I am missing something.

 

 

Well, it has been over 12 for me. And I still feel disgust and shame for my actions. Not a red flag at all. I think anyone who has regained their self respect after doing something so despicable should always feel that way. You may eventually forgive yourself but you never forget.

[Dexter Morgan]

Anne, I agree with you on the fact that during the affair I may have lost sight of how much I loved my wife, or that I could possibly lose her for it. I really don't think people involved in affairs think too much about the consequences. They either believe they will not be caught, or in my case that the guilt and disgust won't eat them up.

But, I really don't like that people try tell me I did not love my wife. I state emphatically that I did. Deeply. Still do. Always will.

 

well after you got your gratification with another woman, of course you are gonna say this now.

[thomasb]

What I got Dexter was a boatload of guilt and self-loathing that lasted a very long time. I still feel it to this day. I was and am not unapologetic.

[thomasb]

My wife doesn't feel like I ought to walk around wearing a hair shirt and flagellating myself, dexter. She has forgiven me and we have gone on with our lives and built a stronger marriage that is impervious to lies and dishonesty. But, by your posts it seems as though you feel that once you have cheated there is no redemption. Why is that? Just because you were unable to recover does not mean that others cannot.

Edited October 20, 2010 by thomasb
SP

[Dexter Morgan]

My wife doesn't feel like I ought to walk around wearing a hair shirt and flagellating myself, dexter. She has forgiven me and we have gone on with our lives and built a stronger marriage that is impervious to lies and dishonesty. But, by your posts it seems as though you feel that once you have cheated there is no redemption. Why is that?

 

because even if someone forgives a cheater, a scar still remains. It may be that they don't focus on the cheating and were able to push it to the back of their mind....but it is still there, and there will be triggers here and there. She just may choose to keep it to herself and not let it show.

 

I could have forgiven my x-wife for the sake of the kids and I'm sure I'd be able to function on a day to day basis and wouldn't think about the infidelity after a certain period of time and all would seem a-ok in the marriage.

 

But it would always be in the back of my mind, and its something I didn't want.

its still in the back of my mind somewhere....difference now is, because I got rid of her, the thoughts don't hurt because she is no longer significant to me.

 

just in my opinion, people shouldn't settle for a cheater

 

 

Just because you were unable to recover does not mean that others cannot.

 

i've said this time and time again....I think alot of people can "recover", but at what cost? I could have recovered, but I'd have settled for a life less lived in my opinion.

 

and i've used this analogy over and over.

 

I can total a car....yes, its fixable, yes it can "appear" to look like new once fixed....but there are still imperfections and its damn expensive.

 

in the end......best just to get a new car.

[Spark1111]

No, hon. You are certainly not the one missing something.

 

It's NORMAL for someone to look back on something they have done wrong and feel badly about it, regardless of the length of time that has passed. Of course they shouldn't still be literally wallowing in guilt over it, but feeling remorseful and apologetic would be NORMAL.

 

What is interesting to me is that the selfish, thoughtless act of an affair has had so many far-reaching consequences for a man who was truly a good guy, devoted husband, family man for oh-so-long.

 

Yes, thomasb, he was very angry and depressed and we did bear the brunt of that in the home during his affair. That hurt!

 

Yes, Seren, we did not recognize that angry, distant man who was certainly not the one I fell in love with. He is still filled with self-loathing for his actions then.

 

After DDay, I remember asking him: "If she truly made you happy, why were you so miserable all the time? So angry with us, me?"

 

His reply: I hated myself, was angry at myself, felt worthless. I projected it onto to you. She told me how wonderful I was. It became a drug and a vicious cycle. I'd see her, feel good in the moment, almost happy, leave, feel guilty, spiral down, get angry and depressed even more, and then the only thing that alleviated it was.....seeing her again to be told how wonderful I was.

 

Sheesh! Affair in lieu of therapy. What a rollercoaster.

 

What a price to pay!

[carhill]

TBH, I think some people can love whilst betraying their primary relationship, but IMO it's not the kind of love I would want in and from a partner whom I was committed to and loved. In our situation, my exW was very disclosed of my unhappiness and abject desperation for about two years prior to my EA. When it occurred, I had reached a level of balance, in that the level of care for her equalled my perception of her care for myself. The choice was wrong, but I can guarantee that there was no love there when it occurred, at least not anything I'd consider healthy.

 

So, again, as I learned in MC, dynamics turn upon *compatibility*. In this case, compatible styles of love. I would not be compatible with someone who felt they could love their committed partner and de-prioritize that partner enough to cheat on him/her. Our styles of love and connection would be incompatible.

 

So, hence, I watch for signs of this in new potentials and can more quickly dismiss the incompatible ones. I know now there is someone better for them out there. I hope they find what they're looking for

[Steadfast]

 

Anne, I agree with you on the fact that during the affair I may have lost sight of how much I loved my wife, or that I could possibly lose her for it. I really don't think people involved in affairs think too much about the consequences. They either believe they will not be caught, or in my case that the guilt and disgust won't eat them up.

 

But, I really don't like that people try tell me I did not love my wife. I state emphatically that I did. Deeply. Still do. Always will.

 

 

With all respect Thomas, you're giving yourself far too much credit. Your saved marriage has far more to do with your wife's ability and desire to stay in the marriage than your love for her. Guilt is not love. Love is love.

 

My pop cheated on my mom. It nearly destroyed them, but it didn't. It was a combination of love, family values and faithful conviction that saw them through it. But, no matter what, it blew a hole in her heart that is still there today...at 83...and even after his passing. Cheating is the gift that keep on giving. Does that sound like love to you? Infidelity is often survived and forgiven but never forgotten. Put the shoe on the other foot.

 

You'll see.

 

"Reacting to a (perceived) act of kindness I heard her say "I love that you love me". What's the opposite of romantic... pathetic? The cheater may 'love' certain things about their spouse; their caring, faithfulness, etc. But love? Real man and woman love? That's not in the equation. Like love, cheating is a decision and that's hard to swallow."

 

I think this is a fascinating post. I'd like to hear you elaborate on the bolded if you feel up to it.

 

 

Understanding that the issue may be my inability to comprehend, I have much difficulty accepting that you can engage in sexual relations with someone else while having love and devotion for your spouse. Instead, I suspect we all love certain 'things' about them...enough in some cases, to do anything in our power to keep them. But this falls on the betrayed, ultimately.

[thomasb]

A marriage is not a car. It is more spiritual than that, at least to us.

We had intensive counselling after the affair in order to establish the whys and wherefores. Perhaps that is the difference. Also we didn't have to 'stay for the children' since all four were from her first marriage. We stayed together, and worked to make a new marriage because we wished to, not because it was easier or better for the kids.

As a matter of fact, it would have been a hell of a lot easier to just walk away. But there was to much love there still between us. Even though I almost lost her through my own stupidity.

[Spark1111]

My wife doesn't feel like I ought to walk around wearing a hair shirt and flagellating myself, dexter. She has forgiven me and we have gone on with our lives and built a stronger marriage that is impervious to lies and dishonesty. But, by your posts it seems as though you feel that once you have cheated there is no redemption. Why is that? Just because you were unable to recover does not mean that others cannot.

 

thomasb, I hope you are cherishing and celebrating the loving and forgiving nature of your wife. It is probably not the norm. Marriages can reconcile for many reasons but re-establishing that trust and love after an affair? It can be a daunting task.

 

Dexter is an example of the many, many people who knew immediately that they cannot, will never be able to, truly forgive infidelity. And it makes it hard to understand those of us who can.

 

I get it.

 

When my H and I first began to talk reconciliation, I needed to drive home what I was feeling and why. I did not want to for a long time.

 

I took every lie, every deceit, every receipt, and I turned it around. I made myself the hypothetical cheater and put myself in every scenario of his affair; the hotel trysts, the dinners, the kisses, the sex, the promises, but with another man.

 

He had to be talked off a ledge.

 

Some people can never overcome the mind movies, and it is more respectful to the WS and BS's OWN sanity if they just walk away.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Spark1111
misspelling

[Dexter Morgan]

thomasb, I hope you are cherishing and celebrating the loving and forgiving nature of your wife. It is probably not the norm. Marriages can reconcile for many reasons but re-establishing that trust and love after an affair? It can be a daunting task.

 

Dexter is an example of the many, many people who knew immediately that they cannot, will never be able to, truly forgive infidelity. And it makes it hard to understand those of us who can.

 

I get it.

 

your right, I don't understand it. all I can accept is, to each his own. I'll never look down upon someone who decides to forgive a cheater. My heart goes out to them and I wish them the best of luck.

 

Some people can never overcome the mind movies, and it is more respectful to the WS and BS's OWN sanity if they just walk away.

 

I can say this, that respect to someone who would dish out such disrespect is not a big concern of mine.

 

I agree, in situations like that, it is best for the BS's own sanity....but the WS in those situations should not expect the graciousness of respect.

[thomasb]

So dexter, are you saying that my wife should never again respect me? After 16yrs of marriage.

Spark, I am and always be thankful that the lord allowed someone such as my wife to come into my life. She is a very loving and giving spirit. And her sons have been a joy. A royal pain, such as teens are, sometimes, but a joy. Now they are all grown and starting their own families, I hope we did teach them the right values and roads to follow. I know everyone has a few pitfalls, but we tried.

Edited October 20, 2010 by thomasb

[herenow]

I haven't read more than the opening post of this thread. I started a thread in the other forum before seeing this one.

 

As a BW had my H told me he loved me while having an affair, I would have been less likely to give our marriage another chance.

 

If he considered having an affair as part of a loving relationship, I would never want love from that man again. At least he was honest enough to admit that he didn't love me then.

 

In reality, our marriage at that time wasn't really filled with love from either of us. True love would have been one of both of us facing the problems in our marraige before it came to the point where we took each other for granted.

 

Now I'm not saying that I'm to blame for his affair, that is 100% on him. But I am admitting that he didn't love me during his affair.

 

It took both of us to dig down deep into ourselves and our marraige to build a new relationship based on true love. The love I have now is the love I want forever. If what I had from my H before was love, I'd would rather leave it.

[Dexter Morgan]

So dexter, are you saying that my wife should never again respect me?

 

no, I'm saying that a WS shouldn't expect it and isn't owed respect.

 

read the context of what I was replying to. it was about a BS leaving a WS and I implied the WS isn't owed any respect.

 

your wife didn't leave you, therefore its a different context.

 

not to say that a BS that stays doesn't resevere the right to lose respect for their betrayer.

[thomasb]

Precisely, and As a WS you have the balls as a WS to do the hard work of reconciling the marriage if you and the spouse choose to work it out. I hate the so called fence sitting I see on this site sometimes. Man up, take your well deserved lumps and own up to your own behavior.

It takes a hell of a lot of work to repair the damage.

[confusedinkansas]

It takes a hell of a lot of work to repair the damage

 

This is very true.

However, those that were betrayed & left their spouse because of an affair - Have no idea what we're talking about. Which is why it is so hard for them to comprehend why a BS would stay in a marriage.

Those that have worked to better their marriages (better than BEFORE the affair) Know all about what it takes & they KNOW that it is well worth the effort!

 

And - Yes, there is & can be love even if someone is in the midst of an affair. I was - (Hind Site) It just got misconstrued for a while. Lost in the pile of crap that was going on around us.

But it WAS & still IS there.

[FructoseGrande]

No this is not neccessarily the case. As I posted earlier, I never stopped loving my H. There was something missing in me in how I dealt with the problems in our marriage (which really were not that bad) so I did something cruel and selfish by having the affair but I know I have always loved my H. As it is, we are over 2 years post Dday and doing good - we would not be together if there was no love after all we have been through.

 

 

I wasn't trying to state any hard and fast rules, certainly nothing applicable to anyone's personal situation, just a general observation.

 

Putting it another way, I think most people would consider it to be "cheating" when say a married man goes out and bangs a hooker--that's sex outside of the marriage. Sometimes there's emotion involved with that, but not very often actually, I imagine.

 

Think of all the married men who cheat by going to hookers, or strip clubs where they have private parties with "extras" thrown in, in the back room. Really, there's no emotion I imagine, it's "just" sex.

 

Now, compare that with what a typical married woman does when she cheats. On the average, most married women who cheat, don't do it by going to a male gigolo. I mean seriously--how many female Eliot Spitzers are out there?

 

That's also why you have this common phenomenon of the walkaway wife. Plenty of married guys seem to be reasonably happy at home but just want the extra sex/excitement on the side, they totally compartmentalize their affairs.

 

Whereas, in contrast, it seems that it is far more frequent for married women to have "love affairs" as part of the cheating scenario.

 

That's also not to say that married men NEVER fall in love with their AP's. Again it's a pretty broad generalization but almost EVERY married guy, even those who don't/never cheat, could EASILY at least envision themselves having a ONS, or series of them, with absolutely no emotional attachment at all.

 

Obviously there's a lot more in common between the sexes if the affair approaches a more typical "love affair." But seriously--how many examples do you know of a married woman who cheated by banging male prostitutes? Maybe it's because women don't have to pay for sex, so the comparison would be a woman who just has a lot of ONS's or something.

[FructoseGrande]

What would the red flags be for? That someone still feels remorseful or apologetic for having an A, hurting their family, after 2.5.years?

My H hates what he has done, hates himself sometimes, for being the man he was during the A - personally I wish he wouldn't and didn't, but he does. I support him with these feelings, but his feeling of self loathing about what he did remains.

 

Perhaps I read your comment wrong, or perhaps I am missing something.

 

 

LOL, no you didn't miss anything, I caught what jennie jennie was insinuating as well. Seems like some people just like to play "mind games" eh? Why would that be, I wonder? What's the motivation of jennie jennie to try to plant a seed of doubt in someone's mind, casting an aspersion like that on a "remorseful" former cheating spouse? Jealousy of someone who was successfully able to recover from their spouse's infidelity, perhaps?

 

Unhappy people sometimes don't want anyone else to be happy. Is that you jennie?

[FructoseGrande]

What I got Dexter was a boatload of guilt and self-loathing that lasted a very long time. I still feel it to this day. I was and am not unapologetic.

 

 

Thomasb, I have never been the unfaithful party, but I think what you're running into is a certain lack of ability to empathize with you from some folks, understandably so perhaps, if they've been the victims of a betrayal.

 

However--I think I can try to empathize with you because I am well aware of how EASY it would be to fall a victim to temptation, given the right circumstances. It has never happened to me but--could it? On a business trip someday, perhaps a little drunk, should some gorgeous woman decide to plop herself in my lap, during the midst of a time of marital strife? Feeling sorry for myself?

 

Yes I definitely don't think it could "never" happen, because I'm a human being. Just like you. So the reason I'm pretty sure it WON'T happen is because I KNOW it COULD.

[YellowShark]

As a BS I'll tell you how an affair effected me.

 

When my EX had her first EA with a MM-with-two-kids I was literally packed and ready to leave after D Day. She came home from work and saw my stuff all packed up and we sat down on the couch had a serious heart to heart talk.

 

We decided that we "loved" each other and didn't want this affair to ruin what we had built over 4 years together. So we decided to stay together and go to therapy. In therapy we set goals and boundaries, renewed our commitments, and felt comfortable enough to continue on together.

 

But afterwards there was always this little voice in my head saying "watch out, she may do it again." No matter how hard I tried that little voice was always there because I knew my EX wasn't a sociopath, and she knew right from wrong. And since she chose to do wrong over her "love" for me I could not let go of this survival instinct to be wary of her. (To add insult to injury she would also use this survival instinct against me, accusing me of having "a jealousy problem that I needed to see a therapist about"... which I learned afterwards was her gaslighting me.... I had a valid reason for being suspicious of her after her first affair.)

 

Well, 2 years later she did it again. Another affair. This time she chose a MM-with-a-pregnant-wife. This second affair hurt a hundred times worse than the first because she KNEW how much pain the first affair caused me. The first one just about destroyed me. The second one almost made me suicidal. Because this time she broke all those promises she made to me. This time there was no question about what the boundaries were in our relationship. Yet she chose to do wrong again. It was premeditated.

 

So this time I KNEW her definition of "love" was absolutely not the same as my definition of "love." She may have "loved" me, but she didn't know what real love is. Her definition of "love" included cheating on her partner, mine did not.

 

So I left her, and remain broken-hearted to this day. I shall never ever forget what she did, nor forgive her for doing it a second time since she absolutely knew the score after the first affair.

 

So I figure your partner may love you, but real love cannot include betrayal and cheating. That's now a deal-breaker for me in a relationship, one affair and you're gone, no questions asked. And if you ever think your partner really forgets the affair, you're sadly mistaken.

[herenow]

After 2.5 years?!!! The bolded would be red flags to me.

 

JJ, there are many who believe that it's vital to remember your mistakes as to not repeat them.

 

There is nothing wrong with a WS having feelings of remorse for hurting his or her spouse. It really doesn't matter how long the WS feels that way.

 

My H will probably be remorseful for his affair for the rest of his life. We may never speak about it again, but why on earth would I ever want him to feel otherwise?

 

Are you saying there is a point where a WS should no longer care about hurting his or her spouse?

 

There is a difference between forgiveness and moving on and still felling sorry for past mistakes. I will always be remorseful and apologetic for times I have hurt other. That is how we learn and grow. IMO

[thomasb]

Yellowshark, A second affair would be a deal breaker. It would, to my wife, mean that I never was truly remorseful over the first affair. That I learned nothing.

Herenow, you are right.

[FructoseGrande]

As a BS I'll tell you how an affair effected me.

 

When my EX had her first EA with a MM-with-two-kids I was literally packed and ready to leave after D Day. She came home from work and saw my stuff all packed up and we sat down on the couch had a serious heart to heart talk.

 

She actually cheated on you with a married man with kids? That's pretty sick, actually. But it ties into my earlier point that married women who cheat seem to have to "fall out of love" with their husbands in order to do it far more frequently than the reverse.

 

We decided that we "loved" each other and didn't want this affair to ruin what we had built over 4 years together.

 

Well obviously you must have loved her because you didn't immediately dump her. But I don't understand how you could have possibly assumed that she still loved you (if she ever really did) based on her actions. That doesn't mean you shouldn't have tried to reconcile (a la dexter morgan)--but your attempting to reconcile based on the notion that your wife "loved" you was simply delusional on your part. The only way reconciliation could have possibly worked, slight chance though it may have been, would have been on a foundation of solid reality. Which would have included the premise that she did NOT love you.

 

 

So we decided to stay together and go to therapy. In therapy we set goals and boundaries, renewed our commitments, and felt comfortable enough to continue on together.

 

Your ex obviously needed therapy--regardless of whether or not you and she reconciled, at all! She acted in a destructive manner, that's why she needed therapy. Even if you kicked her out on "day one" she still needed therapy. The therapy she needed has nothing to do with your marriage or saving it.

 

I'm not clear on what therapy would have done for you, other than perhaps anger management etc.

 

You say in therapy "we" set goals/boundaries/etc., so if it was some kind of joint therapy/MC, it could not POSSIBLY have been adequate to deal with your ex's issues. YOU did not participate in HER cheating. She did that all on her own.

 

 

But afterwards there was always this little voice in my head saying "watch out, she may do it again."

 

Again I don't get this at all. Why would that "little voice" be just an afterthought? Like you thought it was part of your job to suppress it so that reconciliation could happen? Why would the apparent objective of your, or her, therapy, have been to suppress the expression of a very logical and obvious fear--that she might well do it again? That would be counterproductive--the therapy SHOULD HAVE emphasized the reality that yes, SHE MAY WELL "do it again" unless both parties do everything in their power to prevent it from happening.

 

 

 

No matter how hard I tried that little voice was always there

 

Interesting. I'm not saying you could have reconciled anyway; but how could reconciliation have even had any chance, if the apparent objective of your therapy was to get you to sweep what she did under the rug, and to suppress that "little voice" which was simply your logical fears and reasonable emotional reaction to her behavior?

 

It wasn't really your "job" to suppress that voice. It was your "job" to AMPLIFY that voice as loud as possible. No wonder reconciliation didn't work for you.

 

 

 

because I knew my EX wasn't a sociopath, and she knew right from wrong.

 

Actually from the description you're giving of her hear at least, it's quite likely she IS a sociopath or at least has distinct characteristics of sociopathology. If you had any doubt about that, her second affair (second known affair, that is) should have removed all doubt. How is she NOT a sociopath?

 

Also, intellectually "knowing right from wrong" does NOT mean that someone is NOT a sociopath. Sociopaths DO know the difference between right and wrong, they just don't care about it. People who do NOT know the difference between right and wrong, such as the truly insane and infants, are NOT responsible legally, ethically or morally for their actions.

 

So, IMO your wife DID know right from wrong, and she also was a sociopath, or at least acted like one in the context of her relationships. Not just with you--but by the damage she caused to her affair partners' betrayed spouses. If she simply wanted to cheat on you she could have picked unattached AP's, right?

 

 

 

And since she chose to do wrong over her "love" for me I could not let go of this survival instinct to be wary of her.

 

What is amazing is that you still feel the need to "explain" or "justify" a perfectly obvious, logical, fear on your apart. I suspect your therapist was horribly incompetent because it seems apparent that you have been left not only with the harm of the affairs themselves remaining with you, but also with some kind of notion that you have anything that needs to be "justified" on your own part. SOMEONE put that into your brain and it could only have been your THERAPIST.

 

 

 

(To add insult to injury she would also use this survival instinct against me, accusing me of having "a jealousy problem that I needed to see a therapist about"... which I learned afterwards was her gaslighting me.... I had a valid reason for being suspicious of her after her first affair.)

 

This is sad, but I hope you realize that the context of this discussion is that the wayward spouse has to be TRULY REMORSEFUL for the notion of reconciliation to have any remote chance at all, even with a betrayed spouse who is willing to "go there." Your ex was clearly not remorseful at all. Thomasb sounds like he is TRULY REMORSEFUL. Spark's husband sounds like he is TRULY REMORSEFUL.

 

 

 

Well, 2 years later she did it again. Another affair. This time she chose a MM-with-a-pregnant-wife.

 

And, in addition to everything else you've stated, this pretty much clinches the notion that your ex was, in fact, a sociopath or pretty close to it. I mean seriously--she cheated once with a mm; gaslighted the heck out of you; then turns around and cheats with a mm whose spouse is pg--c'mon man, that's sociopathic.

 

Nothing can be done about what she did, now.

 

However, in the PRESENT--here and now--WHY is it still necessary for you, to hold an image of your ex as NOT being a sociopath?

 

Maybe you can start to truly let go of all this if you finally acknowledge that yes--she was a sociopath. A true predator.

 

There's freedom in that. The freedom is that there's NOTHING you could have done to prevent what happened. Sociopaths are like that. They're very adept at manipulation and preying on their victims, in this case, you. So you don't have to "second guess" your decision to stay in the marriage any longer, if you're still doing that. It wasn't your fault. At all. It's ALL on her, and perhaps some of it is on your apparently incompetent therapist. But none of it is on you. You need to accept that in life we just try to make the best decisions we can, but sometimes we just don't have as much control over what happens to us, as we like to think.

 

Think of your ex like she was a natural disaster. A hurricane or tornado that suddenly hit. Not too much you can do about that, right? Just hunker down and try to pick up the pieces when it's all over. Truly evil people are like that. Like your ex, that is.

 

 

 

This second affair hurt a hundred times worse than the first because she KNEW how much pain the first affair caused me. The first one just about destroyed me. The second one almost made me suicidal.

 

Yet, she's not a sociopath? Again: how do you reconcile what she did to you, with your insistence that is not a sociopath?

 

Yellowshark: You married a sociopath. That's not your fault because they can be very charming. But you need to come to grips with the fact that your ex was and most probably still is a sociopath. Or pure evil, if you prefer to look at it that way instead.

 

Part and parcel of this realization is also coming to grips with the undeniable probability that her cheating probably went well beyond just the two affairs you know about. People like your ex don't suddenly start remorselessly cheating well into a relationship. Generally they have a history of doing it throughout all of their relationships because it stems from some kind of serious childhood-based personality issue.

 

 

 

Because this time she broke all those promises she made to me. This time there was no question about what the boundaries were in our relationship. Yet she chose to do wrong again. It was premeditated.

 

Total sociopathic behavior is what you are describing right here.

 

So this time I KNEW her definition of "love" was absolutely not the same as my definition of "love." She may have "loved" me, but she didn't know what real love is. Her definition of "love" included cheating on her partner, mine did not.

 

Dude, the page with the word "love" on it, by any definition at all, isn't even in her dictionary. It got ripped out probably when she was a little kid.

 

That's something you need to realize about your ex. She was "broken" the very first time you ever met her. There was NOTHING you could have done to change any of what happened, other than never meeting her in the first place.

 

 

 

 

So I left her, and remain broken-hearted to this day. I shall never ever forget what she did, nor forgive her for doing it a second time since she absolutely knew the score after the first affair.

 

Yellowshark--if you're still broken hearted over this then you still need therapy, this time, hopefully with a skilled therapist. You should be HAPPY that you left her. Your ex was a broken, evil, sociopath. You "lost" nothing at all when you "lost" her, you GAINED a lot, though.

 

Maybe you didn't realize it, but your ex was ALWAYS this way, from early childhood, because people who act the way your ex acted towards you, are broken individuals from early childhood, for the most part.

 

 

 

So I figure your partner may love you, but real love cannot include betrayal and cheating. That's now a deal-breaker for me in a relationship, one affair and you're gone, no questions asked. And if you ever think your partner really forgets the affair, you're sadly mistaken.

 

Every cheater is not a blatant sociopath, although obviously many of them and possibly a big majority are socipathic or have strong sociopathic tendencies.

 

Just because your ex was a sociopath, and/or dexter morgan's, or anyone else's, does NOT mean thomas b or spark's husband are also sociopathic.

 

None of us are perfect. Our individual demons reflect in different ways, and we just have to do what we can to try and grow and address them. Infidelity is one of the most damaging of those demons, but that doesn't mean that everyone who is unfaithful is lost forever to that particular demon.