Can you love and still cheat?

[donnamaybe]

Take it as a compliment. I meant it as such. Like all compliments, you have to think how to take it once its given.

 

Second part, you seem very one way about the WS.

 

That's what I meant there.

 

Like, you find it difficult to see a WSs point, because of remorse etc. I wondered if you feel remorse yourself?

 

Not sure it would go with the strong persona. Kind of.

Ah, gotcha. And thanks. Of course, coming from a woman, I should have taken it (strong woman) as a compliment. Men often see it another way.

 

As for remorse not matching the persona, sure. I've felt and demonstrated remorse over things. Just because I don't take crap off of folks doesn't mean I can't recognize when I'm in the wrong. Maybe for some it's the admitting it part that's difficult. Not sure.

[Dexter Morgan]

Emotions are never black or white. They come in many shades of grey. Cheaters who feel remorse and end the affair decide that love for their spouse is more important than love for sex with someone else.

 

And I would say good for them. But I wouldn't stay with someone even if they think this is what they want. I simply will always be reminded of what they did and know they are MORE than capable of cheating, and can do it again if the perfect opportunity presents itself.

 

and I don't want to stay in a relationship where my partner got to get their rocks off, then think they can come back and everything will be just fine with me.

[kuma]

Being "in love" is a choice to fuel an attraction that leads to those heady-hormonal rushes one experiences in the beginning of ANY relationship.

 

It is a dopamine spiking chemical reaction to an attraction and can last from one to two years.

 

That old cliched line of , "I love you, but I am no longer 'in love' with you" makes most mental health professionals groan as they realize the client has no basis for mature love and is seeking a return to adolescence with sweaty palms, racing heartbeats and back-seat car encounters.

 

If they do not understand how love is supposse to deepen and mature over time they are doomed to seek the "rush" from a new source after it wears off.

 

They generally do not do long-term relationships very well until they either adjust their thinking/and or educate themselves.

 

I totally agree. I also think that it's easy to be 'in love' with someone when there's no stress in the relationship. (like kids, bills, etc.)

[jennie-jennie]

Being "in love" is a choice to fuel an attraction that leads to those heady-hormonal rushes one experiences in the beginning of ANY relationship.

 

It is a dopamine spiking chemical reaction to an attraction and can last from one to two years.

 

That old cliched line of , "I love you, but I am no longer 'in love' with you" makes most mental health professionals groan as they realize the client has no basis for mature love and is seeking a return to adolescence with sweaty palms, racing heartbeats and back-seat car encounters.

 

If they do not understand how love is supposse to deepen and mature over time they are doomed to seek the "rush" from a new source after it wears off.

 

They generally do not do long-term relationships very well until they either adjust their thinking/and or educate themselves.

 

There have been studies which show that some lucky couples are still in love after 25 years. There are those of us who are capable of staying in love while also harboring mature love for each other.

[Owl]

There have been studies which show that some lucky couples are still in love after 25 years. There are those of us who are capable of staying in love while also harboring mature love for each other.

 

I can kind of agree with you. My relationship with my wife diplays a lot of attributes of both phases, after nearly 25 years together. I'm of the opinion that the "in love" feelings will come and go in phases throughout a relationship a lot of time...with varying strengths at various times.

 

But, you raise an interesting question.

 

Can an affair...that remains an affair and doesn't progress further because the MM hasn't chosen to leave his wife...move into the "mature love" phase?

 

I've seen it mentioned in numerous articles and books that the "in love" phase is often extended in cases of infidelity, in a lot of cases well beyond the 2 year mark that most people consider the 'normal' timeframe it can last.

 

But...is there sufficient day to day interaction at a sufficient depth to attain "mature love" in relationships that have never progressed to the 'living together' stage?

 

My first thought is that there wouldn't/couldn't be, because living together is a whole new level of interaction...as many people who first move in with someone find out. That's a large part of why the "in love" phase is typically extended in affairs.

 

Just my thoughts.

[thomasb]

Owl, I agree.

My wife will still make me catch my breath and make my pulse race. She will sometimes laugh at me and say isn't it safe to do the dishes or vacuum or whatever. No, just watching her still turns me on... after 16 yrs together. I've never felt the kind of love I feel for her.

[donnamaybe]

I can kind of agree with you. My relationship with my wife diplays a lot of attributes of both phases, after nearly 25 years together. I'm of the opinion that the "in love" feelings will come and go in phases throughout a relationship a lot of time...with varying strengths at various times.

 

But, you raise an interesting question.

 

Can an affair...that remains an affair and doesn't progress further because the MM hasn't chosen to leave his wife...move into the "mature love" phase?

 

I've seen it mentioned in numerous articles and books that the "in love" phase is often extended in cases of infidelity, in a lot of cases well beyond the 2 year mark that most people consider the 'normal' timeframe it can last.

 

But...is there sufficient day to day interaction at a sufficient depth to attain "mature love" in relationships that have never progressed to the 'living together' stage?

 

My first thought is that there wouldn't/couldn't be, because living together is a whole new level of interaction...as many people who first move in with someone find out. That's a large part of why the "in love" phase is typically extended in affairs.

 

Just my thoughts.

I totally agree with this and have stated so many times. A full time relationship is a much more all encompassing relationship than an A because the couple shares everything - even the mundane stuff and the things NO ONE wants to do. If you can live full time with someone and love them completely... THAT is mature love.

 

It's easy to think you're in love when there are only stolen moments and little bits of time together.

[Silly_Girl]

I totally agree with this and have stated so many times. A full time relationship is a much more all encompassing relationship than an A because the couple shares everything - even the mundane stuff and the things NO ONE wants to do. If you can live full time with someone and love them completely... THAT is mature love.

 

It's easy to think you're in love when there are only stolen moments and little bits of time together.

 

However, for some, being in an affair (particularly long-distance) can bring enormous stresses and strains that many couples do not encounter until perhaps years in to a relationship. There may be very pressured and difficult conversations and decisions which bring out the worst in each other, possibly meaning the 'little surprises' aren't saved for the post-nuptial period. Perhaps.

[Owl]

However, for some, being in an affair (particularly long-distance) can bring enormous stresses and strains that many couples do not encounter until perhaps years in to a relationship. There may be very pressured and difficult conversations and decisions which bring out the worst in each other, possibly meaning the 'little surprises' aren't saved for the post-nuptial period. Perhaps.

 

I could see that. The stress could cause arguments and such that reveal things about the other person that might not otherwise surfaced fow a while.

 

But that's still nowhere near the same thing as living with someone. That's still not the same amount of interaction, although it could have similar depth in short bursts. Real intense, but still limited in duration.

 

But would that be enough to develop/maintain "mature love"?

[jthorne]

However, for some, being in an affair (particularly long-distance) can bring enormous stresses and strains that many couples do not encounter until perhaps years in to a relationship. There may be very pressured and difficult conversations and decisions which bring out the worst in each other, possibly meaning the 'little surprises' aren't saved for the post-nuptial period. Perhaps.

Surely, you can see that those affair stresses and strains are not the same as to what donna was referring?

 

My H being with me while my family member is puking their guts up from chemo and being there supporting me while that family member was in the ICU is not anywhere in the ballpark of the stress of an affair. Sorry.

[Silly_Girl]

Surely, you can see that those affair stresses and strains are not the same as to what donna was referring?

 

My H being with me while my family member is puking their guts up from chemo and being there supporting me while that family member was in the ICU is not anywhere in the ballpark of the stress of an affair. Sorry.

 

2 years in to my relationship with the man I married and had my son with, the biggest stress we'd encountered was picking our first home to buy.

 

All subjective, shades of grey, as usual.

[donnamaybe]

2 years in to my relationship with the man I married and had my son with, the biggest stress we'd encountered was picking our first home to buy.

 

All subjective, shades of grey, as usual.

Well, yeah. Unless someone in the family is battling a life threatening illness, I would agree that THE biggest stress is buying a first home.

 

What I was talking about was the day in-day out annoying crap that couples who are together ALL THE TIME except for work have to deal with. That kind of stuff doesn't enter into play in an A where there isn't a "living together constantly" situation.

[Silly_Girl]

Well, yeah. Unless someone in the family is battling a life threatening illness, I would agree that THE biggest stress is buying a first home.

 

What I was talking about was the day in-day out annoying crap that couples who are together ALL THE TIME except for work have to deal with. That kind of stuff doesn't enter into play in an A where there isn't a "living together constantly" situation.

 

Buying a new house, not selling one, not having to move out of one place. It wasn't the least bit stressful. The real-life stuff came later.

 

I know exactly what you're talking about, and I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do acknowledge there are arguments going the other way also.

[xxoo]

However, for some, being in an affair (particularly long-distance) can bring enormous stresses and strains that many couples do not encounter until perhaps years in to a relationship. There may be very pressured and difficult conversations and decisions which bring out the worst in each other, possibly meaning the 'little surprises' aren't saved for the post-nuptial period. Perhaps.

 

A difference I notice (reading here) is that the stress of an affair is often "couple focused", involving a lot of intense conversations exploring the progress and dynamics of the relationship. All this "couple navel gazing" may help to perpetuate the "honeymoon" effect.

 

It seems that couples who reconcile after an affair experience a similar effect while they are hyper-focused on the relationship.

[donnamaybe]

A difference I notice (reading here) is that the stress of an affair is often "couple focused", involving a lot of intense conversations exploring the progress and dynamics of the relationship. All this "couple navel gazing" may help to perpetuate the "honeymoon" effect.

Yes, and they are trying to "conquer" these issues together. When you live together all day every day you get the mundane crap that tends to divide couples unless there is a LOT of love there.

[jthorne]

Well, yeah. Unless someone in the family is battling a life threatening illness, I would agree that THE biggest stress is buying a first home.

 

What I was talking about was the day in-day out annoying crap that couples who are together ALL THE TIME except for work have to deal with. That kind of stuff doesn't enter into play in an A where there isn't a "living together constantly" situation.

Just take in-laws for example, who can cause a LOT of marital stress. Thankfully in my situtation, the in-law relationship is great. My H considers his in-laws his family and is very close to them.

 

Most OW are never even introduced to family members, much less have any kind of relationship with them, good or bad.

 

I find the "affair stresses" that two people brought on themselves compared to marital stresses rather insulting.

[Silly_Girl]

A difference I notice (reading here) is that the stress of an affair is often "couple focused", involving a lot of intense conversations exploring the progress and dynamics of the relationship. All this "couple navel gazing" may help to perpetuate the "honeymoon" effect.

 

It seems that couples who reconcile after an affair experience a similar effect while they are hyper-focused on the relationship.

 

That's a really good point. My (married) bf and I have speculated whether we are building/have built a more solid foundation due to exactly that stuff, than we would have if we'd been simply dating and chatting about which movie to watch at the pictures, or which restaurant to choose. We've found some communication methods that work well for us (time together is in short supply at the moment for lots of reasons on both sides) so we have to make it count, say what needs to be said and move on. But we spend less time than others might on discussing holiday destinations or whether to get the garage roof repaired, for example.

 

We'll only really know with hindsight, but I know we communicate better than any of my previous relationships and a couple of friends who actually physically live with their partners.

[Silly_Girl]

Just take in-laws for example, who can cause a LOT of marital stress. Thankfully in my situtation, the in-law relationship is great. My H considers his in-laws his family and is very close to them.

 

Most OW are never even introduced to family members, much less have any kind of relationship with them, good or bad.

 

I find the "affair stresses" that two people brought on themselves compared to marital stresses rather insulting.

 

The fact you find them insulting doesn't mean they don't exist. same as long-distance relationships, some people could never go that route, doesn't mean they don't bring a set of pressures and worries and factors that will require addressing.

[jthorne]

The fact you find them insulting doesn't mean they don't exist. same as long-distance relationships, some people could never go that route, doesn't mean they don't bring a set of pressures and worries and factors that will require addressing.

The "stresses" of sneaking around to have an affair behind someone else's back on a long-term basis somehow compares to stresses of other real relationships is what I find insulting.

 

It seems like a stretch or grasping at straws for legitimacy.

 

We've strayed from the original topic, so I'll leave it at that.

[wheelwright]

Ah, gotcha. And thanks. Of course, coming from a woman, I should have taken it (strong woman) as a compliment. Men often see it another way.

 

As for remorse not matching the persona, sure. I've felt and demonstrated remorse over things. Just because I don't take crap off of folks doesn't mean I can't recognize when I'm in the wrong. Maybe for some it's the admitting it part that's difficult. Not sure.

 

Get it I think.

 

I never think of being a strong woman as anything but a compliment.

 

There's a whole world of admitting I'm wrong I could go down - but I don't really see it that way.

 

Except when I do.

 

And I say when I do.

[GreenEyedLady]

I've heard several people on this site state that you cannot love your spouse and cheat on them.

I most emphatically state every time that you can. I did. The people who believe that, IMHO are forming their beliefs on the basis that something must be wrong with the marriage, or the BS. When in fact the deficiency is within the cheater. It is a selfish thing. thoughts?

 

I don't know.

 

I know that I cannot cheat when I am married. I know that when I love someone, I will not betray them.

 

I think I would definitely not want to be with someone who thought they could love me and betray me in the same breath.

 

So maybe the better question to ask is: Why would I betray the one I love?

 

Don't blameshift.

 

GEL

[bentnotbroken]

I don't know.

 

I know that I cannot cheat when I am married. I know that when I love someone, I will not betray them.

 

I think I would definitely not want to be with someone who thought they could love me and betray me in the same breath.

 

So maybe the better question to ask is: Why would I betray the one I love?

 

Don't blameshift.

 

GEL

 

 

I like your question.

[East7]

IMO

I think that cheating can be distinguished in 2 categories, 2 perspectives :

 

1- Accidental/Occasional cheating; example: MW/MM gets drunk somewhere and let it happen. But then they feel guilty and stop it quickly. In this case I believe they really love their spouse and don't let things go further.

2- Long term cheating (A): which is choosing it with free will and often getting emotionally attached to the AP. In this 2nd case, I don't think they purely love their BS, because they know what they are doing, they focus on their own pleasure and put aside their commitment. WS are often just self-centered.

[bentnotbroken]

IMO

I think that cheating can be distinguished in 2 categories, 2 perspectives :

 

1- Accidental/Occasional cheating; example: MW/MM gets drunk somewhere and let it happen. But then they feel guilty and stop it quickly. In this case I believe they really love their spouse and don't let things go further.

2- Long term cheating (A): which is choosing it with free will and often getting emotionally attached to the AP. In this 2nd case, I don't think they purely love their BS, because they know what they are doing, they focus on their own pleasure and put aside their commitment. WS are often just self-centered.

 

 

Occasional yes...accidental no. How do you accidental connect your sex organs with someone else's. Impairment shows bad judgment, not accidental judgement.

 

What you describe are both states of cheating. A ONS never to be repeated is a case of an instance of cheating. Most infidelity does not fall into one instance of cheating. Is love for a spouse present when the state of cheating is present...seems to be a case of not being able to occupy the same space at the same time.

[ladydesigner]

Occasional yes...accidental no. How do you accidental connect your sex organs with someone else's. Impairment shows bad judgment, not accidental judgement.

 

What you describe are both states of cheating. A ONS never to be repeated is a case of an instance of cheating. Most infidelity does not fall into one instance of cheating. Is love for a spouse present when the state of cheating is present...seems to be a case of not being able to occupy the same space at the same time.

 

I'm sorry but this made me laugh:lmao: So true BNB. It is bad judgement probably one that was under the influence (or that is the usual excuse anyways).