Can you love and still cheat?

[donnamaybe]

Well, Donna, I'm one of the OM's , who the WS left her H for, and it has worked out great. But, and it's a big but, it was because I forced the issue with WW and her H.

And how many of these types of cases are there? Not many. Not when the A drags on for years.

[thomasb]

Donna, I agree, I read somewhere that if an AP has not left within the first 6 months the odds are they won't leave at all.

[confusedinkansas]

BTW, this is why I'm skeptical about CIK'S posts. She is continuing to deceive, and excuse her actions.

Excuse the TJ - but How So?

[thomasb]

JustJoe, that sounds like a personal attack and will get this thread closed. Is that your intention?

[butler89]

"Umm Thomas without trying to attack I say bulls__t. If you really DID LOVE you would NEVER CHEAT. Sorry, but love is a sefless emotion and cheating is about the polar opposite of that. It is one of the most selfish acts in a marriage one can take."

-----------

 

First off romantic love is not selfless. The only love that is close to selfless is the love of parent and child.

 

It's obvious you're hurting and I am very sorry for that. But I think you are dead wrong. You absolutely can love someone and still have an affair. Each case is different. It is ridiculous that people lump all affairs/cheaters/betrayed spouses together. If those people in marriages weren’t so quick to jump into this lump sum thinking…or be counseled by friends with this thinking, many marriages could be saved. Additionally all to all those smug “me and my husband have never cheated and we feel sorry for all you in marriages where cheating has occurred” that’s wonderful if that is true, but just because you or your spouse have never cheated does not mean you have a more fulfilling marriage than people in marriages that have been affected by infidelity. My sister’s husband had an affair years ago. I did not find out until years later. I had always…and still say that from the looks of things and comparing their relationship to other couples…they seem to have the most loving, together marriage. They seem connected, they enjoy one another’s company. They speak with each other, instead of at each other. They seem engaged. They are constantly laughing and having fun together. They still have regular sex 30 years later at 55 years old, they have a great social life…etc. I use the word seem, because as we ADULTS know you never really now the inside of a marriage, but when I compare the looks of their marriage, to the looks of the other marriages I know, theirs wins hands down. My sister is a very honest and authentic woman. She will say that the affair was obviously very painful..but that her marriage has survived and has grown. She has grown in the aftermath. So people assuming that a marriage that has or has not been affected by infidelity is necessarily better or worse, are really very naïve. I could expound on this topic and talk about friends in very conventional…”no one has been known to cheat marriages” that are basically really great roommates.” And people who think it could never happen to them…are dumb. Unless you’re married to GOD or a ROBOT, you are setting yourself by thinking this. Everyone is capable of most anything, if the ingredients are right. I’m not a freaking criminal….but if anyone ever touched my kid….I’m not so sure that if I were walking down a dark alley and had a chance to do something heinous to the perpetrator I wouldn’t. Hell if that Dr. whose family in CT got slaughtered ran into one of those guys, he’d probably turn into a person he did not recognize. Never excuse yourself from human behavior. Just work to make the environment of your life healthy, so those choices do not present themselves.

 

Now on to my affair. You knew that one was coming right? I had an affair and I loved/love my husband. Many affairs stem from a whole world of emotions. Mine was no different. And yes the betrayed spouse can absolutely be a leading cause, the cheater feels compelled to seek emotional understanding from someone as a substitute for the emotional beating they are taking at home. Notice I use the word compelled. I use the world compelled so I don’t have to sit around and listen to all you people who are going to ball me out and tell me I made a choice. It’s obviously a choice people. Everything we do in life is a choice. When you berate your spouse you are choosing to do this. When you ignore your spouse you are choosing on some level to do this. When you make your spouse feel like **** and are unsupportive you are choosing to do this. But hysterical people want CHOICE to mean the cheater sits around contemplating a master plan to make their spouse unhappy and denigrate them. People forget conveniently that as you are “choosing to do this” you may also be choosing to keep yourself emotionally afloat, you may be choosing to stem the tides of the oncoming depression due to the emotional abusiveness of your partner. And I don’t mean the odd misunderstanding here and there. I mean emotional abuse that is ongoing. You may be choosing to quell the intense fear and panic that exists in your life that your partner is trying to ignore and essentially emotionally abandoning you. You may be exhausted from years of trying to “help” your partner to understand their severe inability at processing, expressing their own emotions, which instead turns to rage…AT YOU! By the way, don’t we wish we could see in the flushes of love, that all the little quirks we first see in someone’s personality could mean SO MUCH MORE So basically the betrayer is choosing lots of things…it’s not like I woke up said “you know what, I’d like to go out and totally devastate and destroy my husband today, I really enjoy watching people writhe around in pain.” We ADULTS know life is a bit more complicated. Back to the affair. I’ll try to give you the cliff notes, because it’s quite a story.

 

We started out as a fairy tale. We had a passionate, love filled romance. Dated for 4 years, got married and set about building a stellar life. I am a very planned, thoughtful woman. Some might say I think too much. I’ll admit that. And boy did I think I had the blueprint of a well lived, well thought out life. I put him through grad school. I supported him. I was the big city girl, he was the smaller town boy, who came to the big city. He was smart, handsome and ambitious. We had fun together, he was down to earth. I hit jackpot. True Love, ambition, shared life dreams. WOOOOOHOOOO! By the way I came to all this good fortune after a childhood that started out great, but ended with my father in ruins financially. My dad’s sudden ruination basically tossed me out alone when I was 17 (after a totally strict, upbringing). In a weird twist, I ended up supporting my dad for the next 7 years. he died shortly before I met my husband. After 4 years of marriage we went from scraping by to him earning lot of money and a fabulous life in Boston. I eventually started to focus on my life. Up until then I had “jobs” but I had never really tried to focus on what I wanted to do. Mostly because all those years spent trying to support me and my dad, had meant I really was just interested in keeping a roof over our heads, not on a real career. And had done the same for my husband.

 

I kept working and decided to go back for my graduate degree. At that same time my husband and I decide to have a baby. We were 35 by this time and had plenty of security. Of course we didn’t have a perfect marriage. Who does? We fought about his rage whenever I tried to express my feelings (he can’t handle it) , or his lack of empathy, his growing arrogance. Now you might say how could you love someone like that. Well as we ADULTS know. Things that you experience when you are young, you have a whole different take on when you are older. And a lot of the things you notice at first, that seem harmless (cockiness), take on a different form and become downright unbearable (arrogance/lack of empathy). People change. So my young sweet naïve husband changed as he made more money. Like a basketball player who grew up poor and then all of a sudden is making a trillion dollars a year.

 

Moving on to the next chapter…..I'm 6 months pregnant. The FBI visits our home. I’m like WHAT IS GOING ON! They investigate him for 1 horrible stressful year (I’m talking reported in the Boston Globe, New York Times, Journal). We’re sitting at home one day. FBI agents bust our door down and arrest him. He get’s indicted. We go through another long stressful year preparing for trial. During this time we have our son. His now cockiness and SEVERE criticism now turn up to crazy levels. I can’t do anything right (even though he’s the one indicted mind you.) Even his mother see’s this and tells him that he reminds her of his dad, who she walked out on after 30 years of this behavior. And she didn’t see the half of it. We’re both stressed. He takes his stress out on me. I beg for months to go to counseling. In fact at one point our fights stopped being about the issues and his treatment of me and began to be about me asking to go to counseling. Through this whole 2 years. I literally am shouted down, or berated or told I am crazy/depressive. I’m like….uhhhh maybe I seem depressed because my whole life is disintegrating, and my husband has emotionally abandoned me. Oh and we hadn’t had sex in a year and our son was sleeping with us. Our son was still sleeping with us because my husband would not allow me to sleep train him. Because everything I did was wrong.

I would even say to him. “Let’s work on our marriage now, because if you do have to go to prison, it will make our marriage stronger.” His response was. “It won’t matter because I he will be in prison, so who cares.” Now I understand that his own inability to processes or talk about his emotions or even understand them, coupled with the nervous breakdown we were having turned him into a total ahole. But guess what…. my life was falling apart too! Instead of attacking him out of my own fear and panic, I tried to become one with him and soldier through our fear and panic together. Every feeling he has that is too intense is turned into rage and directed at the other person. Basically the same reason he was having business problems, his disrespect for other’s feeling, was the same reason we were having marriage problems. And the same thing I had been speaking about for years.

When I started the affair, I actually bought a book about marital infidelity that I used to try to read to him. I was so freaked out by what I was doing, literally compelled to walk into this invented fantasy world to escape my nightmare…that I was living ALONE. In retrospect I should have left. But for you people who are like JUST LEAVE! How do you think he would have felt if I said “OK I’M LEAVING. I DESERVE RESPECT AND DON’T DESERVED TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS. I HAVE TOLD YOU THIS TIME AND TIME AGAIN. I DON’T CARE THAT YOU ARE FACING 20 YEARS BUDDY. I AM TAKING YOUR 1 YEAR OLD SON AND LEAVNG YOU TO FACE THIS FEDERAL TRIAL ALONE. I’LL BE STARTING MY NEW LIFE! SEE YA!

Well folks, see because at my core I love him very much, and didn’t want to see him alone during such a horrible time, and I didn’t leave. Plus I could bear taking his son from him. And I want to be married to him. I LOVE HIM. But I want him to look at his emotional issues and work at them. At the same time I was literally dying inside and my life was crumbling. Oh and let’s not forget….he was acting with the emotional distance that my dad did…when I went through the EXACT SAME THING AS A KID. Oh by the way I told him that too!! Over and over again.

Enter stage left Internet romance. I had a 6 month affair with a guy in another state. Much of the affair. our was over email. In fact I used a fake name when I initially started talking to him. Because I had no intention of meeting him. Then he found out my real name and figured out who my husband was. BOY oh BOY…I let the floodgates open. It was like I could just talk and talk and talk about my problems….and we all know where it leads when you start to allow someone else to emotionally support you…who is of the opposite sex…and kinda sexy. We talked like that for a month. Then we met had sex. Oh did I tell you I hadn’t had sex in a year! I really did like this person. And fell in sort of an invented love with him. but I really used him like a substitute for my husband. And he used me as a substitute.

My husband found out….a whole other story. Told his whole family. A whole other story. But guess what we are still together. Why? Because on some level he knows I am not a cheater. And he knows that he absolutely played the biggest part in the absolutely VALID feelings I had….that DROVE…yes I said DROVE...me to do what I did.

I am now supporting his ass. Putting my whole life on hold. While he waits for his appeal to go through. He’s facing 10 years. I work like a dog every day, he cannot work. We have lost everything. I still deal with his emotional abuse…although it’s gotten better with therapy…and I hope it continues too. I am basically trying to come to terms with the fact that I may never have more children (40 this year) am facing a life that is my worst nightmare. So yes…you can love your spouse. And yes cheaters can be good people…who do hurtful things. I can tell you one thing. If the situation were reversed and I had made my husband’s mistakes (which are not about stealing money by the way) he would be criticizing me and would have left me because he would have been telling me that I ruined his life. NUFF SAID.

Edited October 21, 2010 by butler89

[silktricks]

Butler, thank-you so much for being willing to share your terribly sad story. I wish the very best for you and hope that all will work out for you and yours.

 

And also, welcome to LS.

 

Silk

[thomasb]

Welcome from me also, Butler. I'm sorry for your pain. The situation sounds horrible. Question though. Why can't he work?

[butler89]

Welcome from me also, Butler. I'm sorry for your pain. The situation sounds horrible. Question though. Why can't he work?

 

 

Thank you for your kind words. He can't work because he is out on appeal. it's hard to get hired when you have a fraud conviction hanging over you. I am now working for real jerk and slaving away at a dreadful job, but at least we have insurance and a decent paycheck. Basically my life is in total limbo and has been for years now....and quite honestly will be for years to come. the appeal could take two years. And if it dosnt work...guess what he goes away for 10 years..and I'm left alone and it's scary.

 

I just want people to know not all affairs are the same. I wish people would really look at their marraiges and be honest about what may have brought it one. Yes it's possible your W or H is just a cad. But sometimes it's not that black and white. People who have affairs are not neccesarily bad. And people who do not have affairs are note neccearily good.

 

You know what my husband once said something that I found facinating. I asked him (after months of me verbalizing my pain and begging for therap) ey do you think we are going to make it, because i'm not so sure. He said "of course we will. When this is all over, you will go back to being a normal wife, and I will go back to being a normal husband. Therein lies the problem folks For my husband and for many people, they believe that they can just treat their H/W in any way they want, and that the H/W will just stand still emotionally. As thoughtthe label wife or husband means you should be able to withstand any sort of emotional mistreatment and still continue your wifely/husbandly duties. LOVING IS A VERB.

Never in my mind did I think I could treat my husband anyway I wanted and he would still stick around or never stray. If i was berating my husband, not having sex with him for months, undermining him and ignoring him, and then i found out that he ha...or was having an affair. I WOULDN'T BE SUPRISED!

But for my husband the word WIFE and HUSBAND are all that's needed to maintain status quo. Once again i am not condoning cheating. I am not proud of it. I am embarrased and I never thought this would be part of my legacy. But I really was on the verge. I would NEVER EVER hurt myself....but theer were days where I would be like GOD, since I would never kill myself...could you just make a freaking bus run over me!

 

I actually felt sorry for the guy I had the affair with. When his wife called me (yes she called) I told her how sorry I was and said that if I wasnt such an emotional mess and so needy, that maybe he could have extricated himself earlier (which was not necearily the case..he dived head first), but i clung to him like a freaking lifeline. They were seperated at the time, him living at his parents. He was not honest in telling her he was seeing me. They are now back together. Which i am greatful for. He seemed to be a good person. I only use the word seem...because obviously living in "affair land" you dont really get to know the REAL person. You only get that when you have a mortgage to pay, kids to feed, and all the rest of it. Affair land is a fairytale.

[wheelwright]

But do you think she actually TOLD her H she didn't regret the A? I'm thinking most likely not. I mean, who would assume their spouse would stay if they told them something like that? I sure wouldn't were I in that position. I would expect my H to show me the door.

 

I told my H all this. I told him how I felt.

 

I never liked gaslighting in the first place.

 

My H watched me go through all the heartache of my separation with xMOM.

 

A friend recently said, 'He must really think an awful lot of you'.

 

You seem like a strong woman (if I may use a euphenism!)

 

I would like to ask you if you have ever regretted/felt remorseful about your own behaviour? I would like to see what that means for someone who makes no bones about not accepting the lack of remorse in WSs.

 

If I stay with my H, he will understand me and my love for xMOM (warts and all kinda).

 

And I will understand his stuff too.

 

That doesn't make me feel good about my A. But it is true.

[wheelwright]

I think some WS realize they love their spouse, when they see their spouse in pain...

 

Isn't that compassion?

 

Which may be a more important part of love than I have yet heard discussed.

[wheelwright]

Owl, I wonder if her unspoken expectation was the cause of OW's anger and vitriol post affair. Like she thought she had one up on my wife only to be dumped. Food for thought.

 

I'd like to ask how she was dumped. Might be a factor?

 

Probably she thought you loved her. She maybe had emotions rather than vitriol?

 

Sometimes the two get mistaken.

[wheelwright]

Haven't we discussed this in relation to your situation before? You stand by the fact that you did nothing to encourage your affair partner to believe that you would ever leave your wife. But, that does not mean that, in her mind, the unspoken expectation was that you would leave your wife, otherwise you would not have risked your marriage by engaging in an affair with her.

 

Just because our actions mean one thing to us, does mean that the other person will still not draw their own conclusions, true?

 

I agree with this.

 

Backed up by such things as xMOM said he would leave his W after kids were grown anyway - part of the life plan thing he had going.

 

But I knew it was only something on the cards. I could see he was considering his life.

 

But if you have been involved with someone to the degree that you have discussed spending your life together, yes the expectations might have got out of hand for the more 'in love' or 'fogged' or 'naive' in the pairing.

 

Like 'tell me exactly what to do so I don't mess it up this time. Give me a list of what you want'

 

Followed by 'I just had sex with my W after 6 months. Now I am not sure.'

 

And then he blanks you in the street as goodbye.

[wheelwright]

I think they realize they love their spouse when they look at all they stand to lose, and I'm not talking about the relationship

 

I was afraid to lose the M.

 

And I was afraid of myself.

[fooled once]

I can't even get through the whole thread because I am infuriated at how a certain poster CONTINUES to come to this forum and take digs at the BS's. This is ridiculous. The same poster whines and cries in the OW/OM forum if a BS dares to post there. ENOUGH OF THE DIGS already *sigh*

 

I have to join the minority... I don't believe that you can cheat and love your spouse. You may love them in a way that you "care" for them deeply but it is not the love of all love... which is commitment. Love is commitment. A selfless act. Love is saying forever...and sticking to it because you are NOT selfish.

 

When a WS can go to OW/OM and tell them that he loves them...while being sexually intimate... you can't tell me that WS still loves their spouse.

When WS spends every piece of free time with OW/OM when they could be with their own spouse...this is not love.

When WS badmouths their spouse (and they do) and lies about their alcoholism, control habits etc...that is not love.

When WS spouse makes promises to OW/OM about spending forever with them...WS cannot still their spouse.

 

I could go on with examples.

 

And I am not too sure about the "beauty" of love because you stayed in a marriage after an affair.

IMHO.

 

Okay good - we know YOU don't believe in loving two people or loving ONE person and hurting them. Got it. Thanks for sharing your opinion.

 

I do wonder though, since this cheater doesn't love their spouse, are you sure they love the affair partner? Or are they just blowing smoke at that person in order to get sex whenever they want?

 

Each person who has been there are the ones who can accurately relate how THEY were feeling. To say "no, you didn't love your partner" is implying that you know the two married people better than they do; or that you know the person who cheated better than they know themselves. How is that?

 

No, hon. You are certainly not the one missing something.

 

It's NORMAL for someone to look back on something they have done wrong and feel badly about it, regardless of the length of time that has passed. Of course they shouldn't still be literally wallowing in guilt over it, but feeling remorseful and apologetic would be NORMAL.

 

No, many of us picked up on the digs at Anne. Really is sad isn't it?

 

I had an affair 15 years ago. Guess I am a weirdo because I still feel bad and guess what - I WASN'T MARRIED! I feel bad for the pain I caused his wife with my arrogance and my lack of compassion when she called me. I feel stupid that I allowed myself to enter an affair. I feel stupid for believing a liar. Oh wait...maybe I am confused... cause isn't the standard line that MM don't lie to the OW, only the wife? MM lie to everyone - including themselves.

 

I wonder why it is okay to accept that the WS didn't love the spouse, but DID love the OW, when the majority of the time, the WS goes back to the marriage. Is he only doing that because of the kids, because of finances, because of pressure from the BS, etc. Why is it readily believed that the WS loved the affair partner? I mean, rarely do they leave so how can they really love them if they decide to stay married.

 

There is no time line max of when a person must end being remorseful for hurting someone. I like that TB wants to each and every day make up to his wife for the hurt he caused her 12 years ago. Shows he really does love her.

[fooled once]

Seren, you are right on the money. And I have an idea you have become stronger through your trials together. God Bless

 

Seren is an amazing woman! She is a total asset to this site!

 

 

Agree with bolded Spark. Now I have hindsight.

 

I did bring up my doubts about the M, but H chose to sweep them under the carpet rather than discuss. I told him I was not happy in the M. I didn't start to be more outspoken with him re specifics until after I had developed feelings for xMOM. I come from a broken home, and tbh, the thought of splitting my family made me quake. I agree all this was cowardly.

 

I didn't understand how I felt, and H showed a lot of disrespect to me over the years.

 

I am sad about all the hurt I have caused him, and I care about him. But I do feel he has some responsibilty. It was he who first had feelings for another and didn't tell me although I confronted him. It is he who first lied (about this and his porn habits).

 

An atmosphere of mistrust and secrecy was begun in the M - by him.

 

It is he who went out 4-6 nights a week while I was trying to maintain a stable family home.

 

And then I flipped. And fell in love too.

 

I am not especially judgemental. Cause and effect and blame are in the eye of the beholder.

 

But in the case of my M, while I agree I made bad choices, I do not think H is without responsibility.

 

again, you are blaming your spouse because YOU chose to cheat. That is bull, IMHO. You could have separated. You could have gone alone to counseling. But you didn't - you chose to cheat instead. Even if "he cheated first" that isn't an excuse for you to have an affair. At least own the choices you made - that they were YOUR choices. But all I see from your post is how HE did this and how HE did that.

 

My ex husband chose to be out 5 out of 7 nights a week, drinking. Even when I was pregnant and even after our son was born. Then the physical abuse started.

 

I chose DIVORCE over cheating. That doesn't make me better than anyone (cause I am waiting for that comment). Cheating is NOT the answer to marital issues, no matter how you spin it, I will never believe "oh, so he watched porn, ya you had a right to cheat". There are ALWAYS other options. You chose the 'easiest' option, IMHO. My point is to OWN your choices, not blame others.

 

As you can clearly see here in this forum, there are many WS's who state clearly that their spouse didn't CAUSE them to cheat NOR did the spouse have an inkling that their mate was cheating. I applaud those former WS's who OWN the choices they made and not try to shift the blame to someone else.

[JustJoe]

Excuse the TJ - but How So?

I have wondered just how understanding and willing to re-connect your H would be, if he knew everything, including your " lack of regret', of your affair. I know pretty much that you will say that you "don't live in the past", but that is just an excuse not to be open and honest. IMO.

[datura_noir]

No one can know anothers heart truly, or their reasons.

 

When my now H had his affair, we weren't even married;, we had no children together, owned no property together, or held any assets. It was a perfect sitch for him to "explore" his feelings for the OW, like he said he intended to. I dumped him and moved out.

 

But there was something there (a spark? An ember? A parasite?) that compelled him to seek me out for reconciliation. We both felt it, it was awkward at first, but it grew from there.

 

I'm sure I would have been fine alone: BTDT, and lived to tell. But neither of us wanted to be apart .

 

He has never made contact, received contact or heard about the OW to this day. Or her brother, who was his closest friend. We made new friends. We survived and thrived.

 

I don't and have never doubted that there are situations where a MM/MW leaves their spouse and makes the affair/relationship transition work-why doubt that couples can recover from an affair?

[JustJoe]

JustJoe, that sounds like a personal attack and will get this thread closed. Is that your intention?

Thomas, I've talked about this issue with CIK many times, way before you even came here, and she knows me well enough to realize it isn't personal. You seem to have a problem with me, so I would suggest that you not respond to my posts, and I won't respond to yours. Thanks.

[jennie-jennie]

No one can know anothers heart truly, or their reasons.

 

When my now H had his affair, we weren't even married;, we had no children together, owned no property together, or held any assets. It was a perfect sitch for him to "explore" his feelings for the OW, like he said he intended to. I dumped him and moved out.

But there was something there (a spark? An ember? A parasite?) that compelled him to seek me out for reconciliation. We both felt it, it was awkward at first, but it grew from there.

 

I'm sure I would have been fine alone: BTDT, and lived to tell. But neither of us wanted to be apart .

 

He has never made contact, received contact or heard about the OW to this day. Or her brother, who was his closest friend. We made new friends. We survived and thrived.

 

I don't and have never doubted that there are situations where a MM/MW leaves their spouse and makes the affair/relationship transition work-why doubt that couples can recover from an affair?

 

My first SO was a serial cheater. A few months after I left him, he came to me and wanted us to start over. He never cheated on me again, and we had the most wonderful time and relationship until he fell severely ill.

 

I will always love him and treasure the memories of our relationship.

[datura_noir]

Seren is an amazing woman! She is a total asset to this site!

 

 

again, you are blaming your spouse because YOU chose to cheat. That is bull, IMHO. You could have separated. You could have gone alone to counseling. But you didn't - you chose to cheat instead. Even if "he cheated first" that isn't an excuse for you to have an affair. At least own the choices you made - that they were YOUR choices. But all I see from your post is how HE did this and how HE did that.

 

My ex husband chose to be out 5 out of 7 nights a week, drinking. Even when I was pregnant and even after our son was born. Then the physical abuse started.

 

I chose DIVORCE over cheating. That doesn't make me better than anyone (cause I am waiting for that comment). Cheating is NOT the answer to marital issues, no matter how you spin it, I will never believe "oh, so he watched porn, ya you had a right to cheat". There are ALWAYS other options. You chose the 'easiest' option, IMHO. My point is to OWN your choices, not blame others.

 

As you can clearly see here in this forum, there are many WS's who state clearly that their spouse didn't CAUSE them to cheat NOR did the spouse have an inkling that their mate was cheating. I applaud those former WS's who OWN the choices they made and not try to shift the blame to someone else.

 

 

And I agree; we all have certain boundaries and most of them come from real life experiences. I had a brief affair with a MM in my early twenties (did not know he was married but found out along the way) and thus my line in the sand was drawn. I cheated in a relationship and only after I had time to reflect, did I realize my own lack of boundaries and integrity. It was a hard way to learn, but I know so much better now.

[Spark1111]

Owl, I wonder if her unspoken expectation was the cause of OW's anger and vitriol post affair. Like she thought she had one up on my wife only to be dumped. Food for thought.

 

thomasb...for some it is about love.

 

For some it is a competition.

 

For some is is both about love and competition; the need to feel superior to another woman in winning the man in the triangle.

[JustJoe]

Sorry to the OP, for the thread/jack. CIK, if you want to discus this , in private, let me know.

[Steadfast]

 

On a side note Steadfast your post really touched me and I am so sorry that your wife did that to you. I hope you will be okay and it seems to me like you are a good, introspective guy who will find real love elsewhere. Your wife didn't deserve you!

 

 

Thank you. Whether or not she deserved me, I loved her and wanted our family to survive. It has, but not intact. The key I believe, it making the best of whatever situation you find yourself in. Lemonade from lemons, and all that. I treated it like an illness...like my wife was no longer with us. The task of getting on became the focus. Not the pain. It wasn't easy.

 

I must of gained something in the process, because I find myself truly happy and glad when I read of marriages that have survived infidelity. For that rare few (it seems) a light goes on and the fight within them awakens. In these cases, IMO, love boldly returns or perhaps takes on its true form...forged by the fear, dread or realization of what could be lost forever. Sure seems like a mixed up way of discovering it though!

[thomasb]

JustJoe, uh, in case you hadn't noticed you are on my thread. If you don't wish me to post to you then I suggest a different thread.

[thomasb]

Spark, the need to win. I think that is a problem a lot of the time.