carhill Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 To me, this is adjunct work to MC, which is where the impetus for my questions and perspective comes from. Our psychologist was nothing if not a good enquirer. The M might be over but the work remains. It's nice to read perspective from those who have recovered their M's to see that side of the equation.
confusedinkansas Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I think she posted where she did, sorry, if she did tell this forum she told him that, I just don't believe it. Again, unless her husband just doesn't care.....about anything. My Rebuttal: As I have said on more than one occasion - there are many things about my marriage & the things that happened prior to & during the affair - that I haven't shared here. So - anyone can assume all they wish. Yes, he holds our marriage in very high regard. Yes, he loves me very much. Yes, we both have talked of many things that happened BACK THEN The difference between us & others that have cheated or been cheated on......We aren't dwelling on the past. What he did to me - or what I did to him - We aren't the "Debbie Downers/Woah is ME couple" We have too many other positive things going for us now.
blizzard Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Interesting thought...but then again it works back the other way as well. How many OW/OM would believe that the WS was in love with them if they were "there" in the marriage? If they could see what was actually going on in MM/MW's lives inside the marriage, inside the home, etc...? Or especially if they were "there" on d-day? I know that my wife minimized the heck out of her interactions with OM to me...she had to, in order to maintain her affair with him. Had he heard how she described him/her relationship/feelings towards him, I highly doubt he would have felt overly loved at the time either. The WS says/does what they have to in order to maintain the status quo on both sides... hm. true owl. but there again, as much as OW/OM is hurt by being left and lied to, they haven't vowed a lifelong commitment or even invested years into a marital commitment with WS. So yes tables can be turned...but I think the BS is more shattered...especially if BS was oblivious and thought things were perfect in their marriage.
blizzard Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Blizzard, not every affair has intimacy involved. No words of love exchanged etc. Have you never heard of FWB? I know in my case I never once told OW I loved her. Or ever implied it either. I have said those words to only a few people. My mother, children and wife. no, what's FWB?
blizzard Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Sort of off-topic, but I think that some OW here automatically assume that if the term "affair" is used, then intimacy is implied. yes. i think an affair is an affair. whether it is physical, intimate or emotional or all.
blizzard Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 hm. true owl. but there again, as much as OW/OM is hurt by being left and lied to, they haven't vowed a lifelong commitment or even invested years into a marital commitment with WS. So yes tables can be turned...but I think the BS is more shattered...especially if BS was oblivious and thought things were perfect in their marriage. I would chance to say that most OW/OM are subconciously hesitant to a "truthful" MM...AP realizes that WS goes home at the end of the day and has an alter life. AP just clings to hope...and WS lies. I don't think they are oblivious like BS. AP realizes like WS can walk out the picture at any time and reconcile with wife.
blizzard Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I think they realize they love their spouse when they look at all they stand to lose, and I'm not talking about the relationship me too dexter... once again i think it is that "familiar" love...the lifestyle, the home, finances invested, kids...the "it's all I know" factor...and not wanting to start over.
anne1707 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I think they realize they love their spouse when they look at all they stand to lose, and I'm not talking about the relationship me too dexter... once again i think it is that "familiar" love...the lifestyle, the home, finances invested, kids...the "it's all I know" factor...and not wanting to start over. I know that this gets said a lot but I do find it frustrating because this was certainly not why I wanted to reconcile with my H. Plus he would never have given me a chance if he thought for a moment that was what it was all about.
ladydesigner Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Come on, Jennie... Yes, of course it is a no-brainer the BS will be hurt by an affair, but it's also true that some WS have an affair FOR THAT VERY REASON. They are angry. Angry that they no longer feel like they are important to their spouse. It does not follow, however, that remorse is due to being caught, or being now in a position of "paying" for your action. Sometimes remorse is caused by this, but to assume that this is the only, or even the foremost reason for remorse is sad at so many levels. Remorse may be due to many things, for example: 1. realization that your anger was misdirected 2. realization of the depth of pain you caused 3. realization that you have injured your own opinion of yourself 4. realization that you can never rewind and repeat 5. realization that everyone you touched, everyone you cared for, including your AP, has been injured. etc.... Lots of reasons for remorse. Oh you bet I was angry when I had my A. My XAP was prepping me. He sensed my M had problems and was falling apart. My H was treating me miserably, running around on me and not helping me with anything. I was definitely angry at him. My A while I will admit was very emotional and also physical, it felt easier for me to rationalize my A through anger towards my husband. It's not right , but that is what I did. No I was not in love with my H when I embarked on my A. I loved him like a good friend that I have known for years, but love, no not during the duration of my EA or PA. My A was never disclosed so my H has not felt the pain that he inflicted on me. What I am remorseful about is that I made a decision so stupid through haste and anger. That I was so focused on soothing my broken self, it was a very selfish act, one that I care not to repeat ever again. I am remorseful in that I can never rewind this act. It will always be a part of me and my memory, one that will never go away.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Not in this thread. She merely said she doesn't regret it - not that she told the H. no, not in this thread...in past threads.
Dexter Morgan Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 My Rebuttal: As I have said on more than one occasion - there are many things about my marriage & the things that happened prior to & during the affair - that I haven't shared here. So - anyone can assume all they wish. Yes, he holds our marriage in very high regard. Yes, he loves me very much. Yes, we both have talked of many things that happened BACK THEN The difference between us & others that have cheated or been cheated on......We aren't dwelling on the past. What he did to me - or what I did to him - We aren't the "Debbie Downers/Woah is ME couple" its not about dwelling on the past, its about the lack of remorse.
goingstrong Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Men can cheat without love for sure, women not so easy.
kuma Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I think they realize they love their spouse when they look at all they stand to lose, and I'm not talking about the relationship I agree with you most WS don't want to lose the life they have. But I still think some WS do realize they love their spouse. They're the ones who are genuinely remorseful.
Author thomasb Posted October 21, 2010 Author Posted October 21, 2010 hm. true owl. but there again, as much as OW/OM is hurt by being left and lied to, they haven't vowed a lifelong commitment or even invested years into a marital commitment with WS. So yes tables can be turned...but I think the BS is more shattered...especially if BS was oblivious and thought things were perfect in their marriage. Blizzard, you still are not understanding that an affair can happen in a marriage that is virtually perfect. I wrote this post on another thread I'll just paste it here. 'There are needs that have to be met within yourself not the marriage you know. Your spouse can reinforce self confidence for instance, but cannot instill it in you. I cheated because of issues I had. There wasn't thing one wrong with either my marriage or my wife, she couldn't be more perfect to me. The imperfect one was me. Until I discovered that I couldn't function well in ANY relationship.'
Spark1111 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I know that this gets said a lot but I do find it frustrating because this was certainly not why I wanted to reconcile with my H. Plus he would never have given me a chance if he thought for a moment that was what it was all about. That was true for me too Anne. I refused to be anyone's default choice, ever. I needed love and commitment and passionate devotion FOR ME, the woman! I know that must be so difficult to believe, certainly in light of how I had to be minimized during the affair. Like, Owl says, it works both ways.
Spark1111 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Come on, Jennie... Yes, of course it is a no-brainer the BS will be hurt by an affair, but it's also true that some WS have an affair FOR THAT VERY REASON. They are angry. Angry that they no longer feel like they are important to their spouse. It does not follow, however, that remorse is due to being caught, or being now in a position of "paying" for your action. Sometimes remorse is caused by this, but to assume that this is the only, or even the foremost reason for remorse is sad at so many levels. Remorse may be due to many things, for example: 1. realization that your anger was misdirected 2. realization of the depth of pain you caused 3. realization that you have injured your own opinion of yourself 4. realization that you can never rewind and repeat 5. realization that everyone you touched, everyone you cared for, including your AP, has been injured. etc.... Lots of reasons for remorse. Or worthy of them....Great post Silk! There are many reasons for an affair and not all of them are unhappiness in the marriage or the spouse. Many times it is an unhappiness within, or anger, or vengefullness.
Spark1111 Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 I agree with you most WS don't want to lose the life they have. But I still think some WS do realize they love their spouse. They're the ones who are genuinely remorseful. They usually do not have a choice on DDAY....It is mostly the BS who will decide IF the WS gets to keep or lose the life they have, IMO. And yes, if they are truly remorseful and do realize they love their spouse AND the spouse agrees to another chance, it can be wonderful.
Owl Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 hm. true owl. but there again, as much as OW/OM is hurt by being left and lied to, they haven't vowed a lifelong commitment or even invested years into a marital commitment with WS. So yes tables can be turned...but I think the BS is more shattered...especially if BS was oblivious and thought things were perfect in their marriage. I'm not sure that's entirely true. There are many OW who post on here who have had affairs that have lasted several years, and in most of those cases the WS may not have STATED an intention to invest in a marital commitment to them, the EXPECATION on the AP's part is that this is what will result...and they feel that their affair is at least equal to the marital committment...actually most seem to feel that their affair is superior to the marriage. A large part of why the BS is "more shattered" ties to your second response...the fact that the AP is (theoretically) aware of the relationship with the BS, and therefore shouldn't be surprised by anything that happens there. In reality, it seems most are still dumbfounded and devestated when they find out that they've been lied to as well. Like I've said...there are no winners in the affair game...everyone loses. As far as the original question about loving the BS during an affair...I can agree that the WS doesn't demonstrate loving behavior to the BS by having the affair. But they continue all other forms of love (as a verb) in some fashion or another most of the time... If the question is whether or not they feel love (as a feeling, not as a verb) for the BS...again, I think that the answer depends on where they're at in things. I would say that as an affair goes on, the FEELINGS of love for the BS tend to wane as the feelings for the AP wax. You feel the most for the person you're investing the most effort into building/maintaining a relationship with. Which might be one reason why the WS 'suddenly realizes' how much they love the BS on d-day, come to think about it. Suddenly they're FORCED to invest in that relationship a great deal...or lose it. Something to consider perhaps...
donnamaybe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 There are many OW who post on here who have had affairs that have lasted several years, and in most of those cases the WS may not have STATED an intention to invest in a marital commitment to them, the EXPECATION on the AP's part is that this is what will result...and they feel that their affair is at least equal to the marital committment...actually most seem to feel that their affair is superior to the marriage.And in how many of those cases have you seen the WS willingly leave their BS for the OW/OM? Those years long A cases?
Author thomasb Posted October 21, 2010 Author Posted October 21, 2010 Owl, Very good post. I agree that a lot of times the WS does not know what they stand to lose until DDay. And I'm not talking material things. The important thing for me was the loss of her. Nothing else mattered in the least. Spark, I've never seen a case where it was the WS's choice. And it certainly was a blessing for me from God that my wife's choice was to reconcile. Silktricks, your right, there are many reasons to reconcile. Your 2, 3, and 4 reasons resonate with me. I very much cared about the pain I inflicted on my wife.
Author thomasb Posted October 21, 2010 Author Posted October 21, 2010 Owl, I wonder if her unspoken expectation was the cause of OW's anger and vitriol post affair. Like she thought she had one up on my wife only to be dumped. Food for thought.
JustJoe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 And in how many of those cases have you seen the WS willingly leave their BS for the OW/OM? Those years long A cases?Well, Donna, I'm one of the OM's , who the WS left her H for, and it has worked out great. But, and it's a big but, it was because I forced the issue with WW and her H.
HappyAtLast Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 It is my humble opinion that in order for someone to experience true love, they need to put the other's happiness and needs before their own. Always. Strictly speaking for myself, and my own relationship with my wife, I would never have cheated on her because I would never be willing to hurt her. I would sooner cut off my own arm. I find, that in life, it is prudent for one to never do things for which they are not willing to pay the potential consequences. The hurt in my wife's eyes was something that I was never willing to see. It would not be possible for me to cheat on the woman with whom I am truly in love because adults consider consequences prior to their actions.
JustJoe Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 BTW, this is why I'm skeptical about CIK'S posts. She is continuing to deceive, and excuse her actions.
HappyAtLast Posted October 21, 2010 Posted October 21, 2010 Owl, I wonder if her unspoken expectation was the cause of OW's anger and vitriol post affair. Like she thought she had one up on my wife only to be dumped. Food for thought. Haven't we discussed this in relation to your situation before? You stand by the fact that you did nothing to encourage your affair partner to believe that you would ever leave your wife. But, that does not mean that, in her mind, the unspoken expectation was that you would leave your wife, otherwise you would not have risked your marriage by engaging in an affair with her. Just because our actions mean one thing to us, does mean that the other person will still not draw their own conclusions, true?
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