Is This Rape?

[porter218]

First, you are only hearing her side of the story, and human nature is to paint a picture from our point of view, with our selfish feelings first. She has so many other options than to cheat, but low and behold she chose the easy way out. Her actions are screaming selfishness, if she cared about anyone but herself (looking at her 2 kids) , she would have just left. Instead she is choosing a relative stranger to be around her 2 small defenseless children. She is choosing to end a M that once was good, but turned bad. She is choosing her own life and feelings over everyone else's. right or wrong?

 

I like to open people's eyes to what they are doing wrong. She can't change the world, but she can change herself. If she keeps blaming everyone else for her problems, why would she ever look within and see what problems she causing for herself. It's a cycle of destruction she is caught in, and she won't see it until she blames herself!

I really don't think at any point here she has put the blame of her A on her H. She came here to ask about the spousal rape. I agree that cheating is a cowardly choice on her end. She is really just making a bad situation worse by doing that. I personally think she should leave her M and her OM and look for a better man all together. I was a BS so I know how wrong As are and how selfish it is. I was essentially in the same predicament as her minus the A. The thing that worries me here is her H is so much like mine was that I know how hard it is to leave. My H would threaten to kill me if I left and said that in front of my son. He would stalk me after I was gone and also threaten to kill himself. It takes a lot of balls to leave when put in this situation. Again...I am in no way condoning her decision to have an A. Either way I say she needs to get out and soon.

[PandorasBox]

I really hope you find some kind of solution to all of this. However, if My H was raping me while I slept, I wouldn't just move into another part of the house lock or no lock, Either I wouldn't be in that house,or he wouldn't be, period. If he is every thing you described then its no telling what else he could do, to you or your kids.

[greengoddess]

Then what do you suggest it was in my case since there was zero alcohol involved? The hurting part sometimes happened to me too...it wasn't from rough sex. It couldn't have been because that would have woke me up. Stress was high and I would get yeast infections and after sex the yeast infection would cause pain. Not immediately and not enough to really say it was more then just uncomfortable. This isn't as uncommon as you think. I went into IC after my D and talking to my therapist she says this does happen and usually never talked about with family, friends, or law enforcement because they are worried people will react like this...the disbelief. It feels almost shameful t the victim and its a weird position to be in.

 

 

Actually when I read your story I got the feeling that although he was doing this without your permission that you had basically waken up each time during. You described waking up numerous times. That just really makes me sick. I can't imagine waking up to that and ever respecting him again after.

[porter218]

Actually when I read your story I got the feeling that although he was doing this without your permission that you had basically waken up each time during. You described waking up numerous times. That just really makes me sick. I can't imagine waking up to that and ever respecting him again after.

 

No..I woke up only half the time. I can't really say how often it happened because there were so many times I was suspicious but had no proof. The first time I woke up to it was when I put it all together and realized what was happening to me. It made me sick but for some strange reason maybe as a coping mechanism I would pretend it never happened so we could continue with our lives. I did loose tons of respect for him after that....and I also found myself making excuses for him...like maybe it was because he was drinking that night..or maybe he was high. Anything to not view him as the monster that he was because we have two kids together and it hurts to think you chose to marry someone who would do that. You feel like it is your fault for not seeing them for who they really are for long enough to have a M and kids. It is really a crazy situation but I did get out. I don't even allow him to enter my house anymore. I don't trust him.

[tnttim]

I really don't think at any point here she has put the blame of her A on her H.

 

Read her posts again....when she says he did this so I did that, isn't that casting blame on her H. She's saying it like she had no other choice but to cheat.

 

How's happy go lucky hubby going to respond to OM when he finds out? Did she think of that?

 

surenity, pull your head out of your vagina and leave without a trace!!!!!

[porter218]

How's happy go lucky hubby going to respond to OM when he finds out? Did she think of that?

Exactly! This could really be dangerous for him to find out. He has already proven to be seriously off kilter. I suggest stoping the A till you are safely gone.

surenity, pull your head out of your vagina and leave without a trace!!!!!

Sorry, I shouldn't laugh...but tnttim is right.

[FructoseGrande]

The next morning, I'd wake up with a burning sensation, like I've been having sex.

"Burning sensation" indicates genital/urinary tract infection, possibly, but....sex??? When was the last time you've actually been to a gynecologist? It's possible that you have a persistent/recurrent infection.

 

Sex doesn't, or shouldn't, cause a "burning" sensation.

 

 

No matter what I tell him as to why I don't wish to have sex that night, he would do it.

Do what, exactly? Would he actually pin you to the bed and physically prevent you from leaving the room while he "had his way" with you? If not, why didn't you just get up and leave the room when he started to have sex with you?

 

I was rather late on my Depo last month and had severe cramps to the point where I almost wanted to cry. I took 2 Baralgin (which knocks you out and I'm already a hard sleeper).

 

I don't know what Baralgin is, some med I guess. So you're mixing a strong medication, some kind of depressant, with alcohol consumption. Obviously you know you shouldn't be doing that. Right?

 

 

When I awoke, the cramps were even worse, my underwear was clearly tampered with and wet,

What does "tampered with" mean? What does "wet" mean? Water? Urine? Semen? You don't say what the "wet" is.

 

I suppose "tampered" with means your underwear was still on you?

 

Is it possible that, while under the influence of heavy sedatives + alcohol, you simply pissed in your pants, and while sleeping, you may have adjusted your own underwear ("tampered") in response to feeling yourself urinating on yourself?

 

 

I was in physical pain in that area and not to mention 'itching'!

This definitely sounds like some kind of urinary tract infection. I'm not sure why you're associating these particular sensations (along with "burning") with an alleged rape.

 

 

I could not believe that that could happen to a person without them knowing

I don't believe it either. So that makes two of us.

 

 

and also, that my own husband would do that to me knowing that I was already in pain.

I agree with you that the notion that your own husband raped you in your sleep, and that it did not wake you up, is completely unbelievable.

 

 

 

The only reason I haven't reported these incidents to the police is because 1) it's sort of surreal because I was asleep and don't feel like anyone would believe that I didn't wake up

It's not just that you didn't wake up, which as you say is unbelievable. It's also that you have no evidence at all that you were raped, by anyone. Everything you've said is completely consistent with pissing yourself in your sleep because you were completely zonked on a combination of alcohol + prescription sedatives. Plus a urinary tract infection.

 

 

during and 2) because I know that would be the end of our relationship before I'm financially able to take care of myself.

If you are willing to tolerate sexual acts in exchange for financial stability then no, it's definitely not rape. Edited October 21, 2010 by FructoseGrande

[Suerenity]

Sorry Porter218, I do really appreciate your sound advice but the rest of you are simply ignorant *******s! I think I've had enough input here to let it be. Not only will I leave the M but also this topic. I always wondered what it would take to get more than 5-10 responses on forums like these and now realize that 2-3 good, positive answers are FAAARRRRR better than a million stupid ones. I must say though, that one made me laugh where he said I could've peed myself while sedated AND drunk. ROFL, you people kill me. Yes, yes, I know...:"Your H is going to kill you when he finds out about OM", blah, blah.

 

All the question was, was "Is this Rape?" Wasn't it?

 

Thank you all. Maybe one day, one of you might be raped, you'll at least then understand. I'm not wishing it to happen, but life is real and you pass nothing until you're dead. You do have freedom of speech and would rather die than for someone to try and take that away from you. Therefore only a pure jackass would be incapable of imagining what it would/should/could be like for someone to take away your freedom of choice. I guess though, looking at it from a logical standpoint, you have a right to answer in whatever form you all did and I can't hold that against you, however, I have a right to discontinue responding to this thread.

[Honorable_Venerable]

All the question was, was "Is this Rape?"

As penetrative sex took place, given that you did NOT give informed consent, then yes, in the UK it WOULD be rape by the legal definition.

[FructoseGrande]

As penetrative sex took place, given that you did NOT give informed consent, then yes, in the UK it WOULD be rape by the legal definition.

 

 

OP stated that she was asleep and therefore could not actually say that penetrative sex had taken place.

[dreamingoftigers]

Sorry Fructose but I must contest:

 

"Burning sensation" indicates genital/urinary tract infection, possibly, but....sex??? When was the last time you've actually been to a gynecologist? It's possible that you have a persistent/recurrent infection.

 

Sex doesn't, or shouldn't, cause a "burning" sensation.

 

Post sex for me sometimes causes burning friction if I am not ready i.e. "wet enough" If Suerenity is out cold or sleeping heavy, she's not going to be lubricated very well.

 

 

Do what, exactly? Would he actually pin you to the bed and physically prevent you from leaving the room while he "had his way" with you? If not, why didn't you just get up and leave the room when he started to have sex with you?

 

Saying "no" or not being awake to consent is enough for it to be rape whether or not she gets up and walks away. Often guys heavily pressure women into having sex. One of my close married friends actually had a really terrible incident where three guys ganged up on her and scared the **** out of her to the point where after she fought them off for a bit she thought her safety was in danger and relented, all three were charged after the fact but one of them said "she stopped saying 'no' so we thought it was okay." Needless to say the event has been very traumatic for her and she is very ashamed about it. It had actually happened at her brother-in-law's place when he went out and some friends of his roommates were there. She had not met any of the guys before and from what I understand none of them were totally sober. She is currently receiving trauma counselling and has trouble becoming intimate with her husband who is enraged over what happened. She has also had trouble functioning day to day and often tells me she wishes she could just die she feels so ashamed of herself. It happened in mid-September and she used to be a happy, outgoing person (she is also employed by me) and her workplace attendance has been the pits ever since as well. "No" should absolutely be enough!

 

I don't know what Baralgin is, some med I guess. So you're mixing a strong medication, some kind of depressant, with alcohol consumption. Obviously you know you shouldn't be doing that. Right?

 

 

What does "tampered with" mean? What does "wet" mean? Water? Urine? Semen? You don't say what the "wet" is.

 

I suppose "tampered" with means your underwear was still on you?

 

Is it possible that, while under the influence of heavy sedatives + alcohol, you simply pissed in your pants, and while sleeping, you may have adjusted your own underwear ("tampered") in response to feeling yourself urinating on yourself?

 

Pretty much anyone can tell the difference in the texture and smell of semen mixed with vaginal fluid and piss.

 

This definitely sounds like some kind of urinary tract infection. I'm not sure why you're associating these particular sensations (along with "burning") with an alleged rape.

 

UTI's and sex tend to go hand-in-hand for some women. It depends on the distance between the urethra and the vaginal opening. I have another friend (yes she is a slut) that gets a UTI everytime she switches a sex partner. Her doctor told her that if she is not willing to lower her risk that the least she could do is urinate right away after sex and drink a large glass of water.

 

I don't believe it either. So that makes two of us.

 

Rape victims tend to have a certain amount of dissociative shock.

 

I agree with you that the notion that your own husband raped you in your sleep, and that it did not wake you up, is completely unbelievable.

 

Back to my married friend, she got tipsy one night and fell asleep and woke up sore. She asked her husband about it and he said he didn't want to wake her up but he was really horny. Personally I would be pissed. (My husband when we first met apparently used to do a lot of grabbing and feeling when I was asleep and jerk off beside me without waking me up, I did ask him not to do that and he told me he stopped before we got married, but really I would have no idea if he did still.) She didn't really mind that he did it, she actually thought it was kind of funny, (she did ask him not to do it again because it made her sore) but the point is, it can be done, and you can tell afterwards.

 

It's not just that you didn't wake up, which as you say is unbelievable. It's also that you have no evidence at all that you were raped, by anyone. Everything you've said is completely consistent with pissing yourself in your sleep because you were completely zonked on a combination of alcohol + prescription sedatives. Plus a urinary tract infection.

 

 

If you are willing to tolerate sexual acts in exchange for financial stability then no, it's definitely not rape.

The guy doesn't support her!

Isn't this what we call blaming the victim?

[porter218]

OP stated that she was asleep and therefore could not actually say that penetrative sex had taken place.

 

I think from her explanation of how he does it she has on maybe one occasion, at least, woke up. She described exactly the method my xH used to do this. My friend also has talked to me about her H doing this too but it didn't bother her because she would rather he do this then cheat(silly logic, but that is how she feels). Her H freely admits to it because he knows she will not get too upset by it. She said he claims he just does it because she is always too tired to have sex because she is raising 3 kids 7 and under and working full-time .

Look bigsweets..this does happen.

[that girl]

OP stated that she was asleep and therefore could not actually say that penetrative sex had taken place.

 

What is the point of the doubt that you are expressing?

 

Seriously, what do you think will happen if you convince her she isn't being raped in her sleep?

 

And what if she's right? What if this guy is raping her? It isn't unheard of or impossible.

 

This kind of behavior is why women don't report rapes. They are afraid of being doubted and blamed. I think she's probably right, but even if you are what you are doing isn't helpful. It is damaging victim blaming.

[Honorable_Venerable]

OP stated that she was asleep and therefore could not actually say that penetrative sex had taken place.

Assuming that there is no actual evidence that penetrative sex took place, then it is an offence of Sexual Assault, as defined by S3 of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, carrying a sentence of up to 10 years on conviction. The precise legal definition not withstanding, it would constitute, in the eyes of the law, a serious sexually motivated attack on a helpless person (irrespsective of whether her behaviour contributed to the helplessness). The law does not consider such acts to be minor or to be brushed off.

[Taramere]

This is the only mature and well rounded response to this situation. Well done Tan. Good luck OP. Nothing makes rape okay or justified.

 

Thanks, tink. I wasn't going to post again on the thread, but I wanted to acknowledge your post and also find out from the OP as to whether she called the hotline and found it useful.

 

Generally, threads like this make my heart sink. On a public board where anybody can contribute, it's inevitable that in amongst the supportive comments there will be the odd frustrated lawyer who imagines roleplaying defence counsel for the accused - and feeds off this kind of thread like a maggot at a carcass.

 

I'd emphasise again to the OP that there are proper supports available. If she calls a confidential helpline staffed by trained volunteers and/or professionals, she wouldn't have to deal with that kind of crap in her bid to get some help and support.

[Suerenity]

Baralgin is a prescription pain killer, NOT an anti-depressant.

[PandorasBox]

To the OP, no matter what anyone here says, rude or helpful, you're still the one in the situation. So therefore regardless of the advice here, you will have to be the one to make the decision. I wish you the best, I'm sure its a real tough situation to be in.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

This happened to me and I did wake up, in the midst of him trying to penetrate while purposely trying to not wake me, and I pulled him off the bed to the floor by his balls. Never happened again.

[Mimolicious]

Thank you very much. I sure don't understand why just about everyone on her seems to be on his side. I hate being the 'victim' but I AM THE VICTIM HERE!!! Cheating is not a crime, RAPE IS!!! I can't believe the audacity of that user to say that maybe in my drunken stupor, I came on to him. The idea of sex with this manipulative, hypocritical, filthy, weed & porn addicted, uneducated, calculating man absolutely repulses me...so why in the hell would I seduce him??? I mean it's not to say that we NEVER have sex, and whenever we do, I'm almost to the point of tears because I REALLY don't want him touching me. This is the exact reason why I have not gone to the police because I feared they would respond the same way.

 

 

Ok...

How can I say this delicately?! The bolded- I found this to be a huge huge keyfact. Please, try to read this over. This sheds a ton of light in your complex situation. Now, let me ask you something- Are you actually telling your H to not touch you? One thing is for you to feel a certain way about him (maybe it has a lot to do with the fact that you have another man who you are in love with, to benchmark him against?!) yet unwillingly but allowing you are engaging into the act. Another is for you to refuse and yet he forces you. THAT is called "rape". If you are in fact sleeping with him and he has no idea of how you actually feel and you are not negating giving him some, then how is he being called a rapist?

 

Trust me, I get you. I totally wish I can actually help you. I really do, so please don't take my post out of context. I am just trying to highlight your own details.

 

I was the one that mentioned to look into your OM's background. It's not news to anyone that people with criminal past or wanted by the law run off to the islands. This is why I brought this up. Possibilities are endless and it is a crazy world!

 

I also mentioned in my previous post about the possibility of being drugged. As you can see from other LS'ers, it can happen...

There are few flip-flops in the story and we can only try to understand from what we read- what the OP writes but I can just imagine how disturbed you may feel. I really wish you strength and you and your kids will be in my prayers.

[painfullyobvious]

Get as far as you can from this person. It will get really ugly if he finds out about your affair

[Tinkerbell1]

This is a tragic situation for your kids.

 

I am disgusted with your behavior (cheating, using your husband for paycheck and a living situation, drunk until passed out, etc.) when you have kids and a situation you need to solve.

 

I'm disgusted with your husband's behavior, if what you allege is true.

 

Nevertheless, the only true victims here are the kids.

 

Wow, judgmental much? that is a really helpful response. Sounds like you enjoy reading other people's problems so you can feel better than. Good luck with that.

[Tinkerbell1]

Tiger, you are right, lots of blaming the victim here. Suerenity, you are not alone. Abuse is abuse. and from what you describe, your H is emotionally and sexually abusive. Period. I get why you fell for another man. It is so hard when we are beaten down and feel so alone and sometimes it is a Godsend to find to another who makes us remember we are loveable and of value. I cant tell you how many times I have worked with women who were not able to see that they were/are strong enough and who couldnt get their self esteem back until they actually did meet another man who supported them emotionally during a very bad relationship. I dont condone affairs, however i DO condone getting the love and support you need when you are dying inside. For all of you on here that immediately condemn those who have A's as being horrible people who are going to hell, your ignorance is showing. Many affairs are born out of desparation and human need. Not all affairs are simply someone wants to get a piece of A outside of the marriage. Enough said on that topic, may start a thread on it though.

Suer, get yourself OUT of that house. Take the kids to your parents house and then get a lawyer when you are safely away to find out what you need to do. Protect yourself and your kids. Once you are safe and know your legal rights, only then should you even think about any type of visitation for him and i think you have learned the hard way that you cant let the kids visit him alone. In fact, I strongly recommend that you only let him see them for supervised visitation when its time, but dont worry about that yet. Also, PLEASE, get yourself into some counseling pronto. You need to remember what an amazing woman you are, it seems to have gotten kicked out of you when you were a kid by all the s___ you went through. You owe it to yourself and your children.

If you think you can make an excuse to visit the parents just you and the kids, do it that way. Otherwise just go and dont even tell him. Do NOT give this man a chance to stop you. DV (domestic violence) is very serious and its time to get safe and take your power back. Good luck and much support be with you!

[lucylove]

i don't understand why you would not be entitled to child support, if not alimony?

and for temporary assistance, go to a women's shelter or stay with family if you must. you need to avoid drinking altogether right now, and drug use.

talk to the police, report this, and see a gyno a.s.a.p. does your husband know about your affair at this point?

there is no excuse for you to stay while this is happening to you. you are being raped! get out!!

[Fuggem Awlle]

AND you're talking about burning, and itching...you might want to get away from that OM...and see a doc about that. I don't see how you have money for pills, and no money for a good std test. Maybe the sleep rape is payback for you passing whatever you got from your OM to your H. I'm not saying it's right, but I sure know women who do that as well when they get that itching, burning sensation...well, I know one that did it. And no, not to me. I don't play around like that.

[Suerenity]

AND you're talking about burning, and itching...you might want to get away from that OM...and see a doc about that. I don't see how you have money for pills, and no money for a good std test. Maybe the sleep rape is payback for you passing whatever you got from your OM to your H. I'm not saying it's right, but I sure know women who do that as well when they get that itching, burning sensation...well, I know one that did it. And no, not to me. I don't play around like that.

 

I know I said I wouldn't reply anymore but I'll have you judgmental posters all know that when I delivered my daughter in '09, I was told that I was given an STD by my cheating husband. I was sure of this because it is standard procedure during pregnancy to have at least 3 sets of complete std testing(first, second and end of third trimester). I was fine on the first 2 which entailed HIV, syphilis, gonorrhea AND chlamydia. I had been tested also on numerous occasions since. OM also has a clean bill of health as we went together before being intimate after that experience with H. That alone was enough to divorce.