Do you think about leagues when your hitting on somebody?

[LittleTiger]

Technical hitch there - posted accidentally before I'd finished. LOL.

 

The fact that she isn't seeing anybody now makes it so frustrating to me because it makes me feel that I'm worse than nothing. Does she think that she's so far above me, (despite her not even being that cute) that she possibly can't settle for me?

 

How this girl feels about you romantically or sexually has no bearing on your personal worth. Sexual attraction is about so many things, none of which we have any control over. It's not a conscious decision she is making. She likes you as a friend but is not physically attracted to you (for whatever reason which probably has little to do with your looks). Why should she settle, why should anybody settle, for somebody they don't feel the right sort of connection with? There is no point in dating somebody just so that you're not alone - being with the wrong person can be more lonely than being alone.

 

LOL, of course I know that girls won't think that I'm the same age as them. I know girls are into older guys and there shouldn't be any issue with a girl going out with somebody she thinks is 3 or 4 years older than herself. Look at my pictures I linked to, do I look 29?

 

It's not really possible to tell how old you are from those photos but looks wise I don't see a problem.......and my Dad was only 5ft 7in at his tallest - it didn't stop him from marrying my Mum, and she looked like a film star when she was younger.

[Stung]

Thanks for the info Stung. I need to do some research. BTW you still haven't said if I was the guy you were thinking about.

 

do I look 29?

 

Sorry SD I have been jumping up every couple of minutes to tend to my toddler who has a cold and my reading/posting is a little disjointed. I'm about to sign off to give him a bath and get him to bed.

 

It might have been you, if you were clean-shaven and your hair was different/flatter? It wasn't either of those pics though, so if those are the only pics you've ever posted it wasn't you. You look pretty grumpy in both those pics , but you're not really bad-looking or anything. You should be at or above the attractiveness threshold for many women, as far as I can tell.

 

It's hard to tell if you look 29, in a closeup you might have more visible lines around your eyes, etc. You look younger than that to me, and you dress younger than that, but you don't really look 18 either. I agree with Little Tiger that attractive college-aged girls often tend to be both more shallow and less empathetic than most other generalized groups of women, btw. I think it's both a social construct thing and a hormonal thing, although that's pure speculation on my part. You could be making things harder for yourself by targeting this group.

[somedude81]

Psychological coaching is a great way to develop yourself personally in all sorts of ways.

Too bad I'm broke. Though I am doing through consoling at a cheap clinic.

 

This may be brutal but that's because she isn't attracted to you, other than as her platonic friend and she doesn't want to lead you on or give you the wrong idea. You come across as a little 'desperate' to me and I only know you from a few posts on LS. Maybe she senses that you are desperate and doesn't want to put herself in an awkward situation.

My biggest problem is that I'm always just the platonic friend. It's very aggravating to be good enough to be her friend, but not good enough to kiss her.

How this girl feels about you romantically or sexually has no bearing on your personal worth. Sexual attraction is about so many things, none of which we have any control over. It's not a conscious decision she is making. She likes you as a friend but is not physically attracted to you (for whatever reason which probably has little to do with your looks).

Yeah, it's hard to accept that people have no control over who they're attracted to. I certainly didn't choose to be attracted to her.

 

I'm more bugged at the fact that she won't even give me a chance. If there was a girl who I wasn't attracted to but still within my required attractiveness threshold, I'd give her a chance and see if anything develops. Though I don't want to be single and this girl seems to.

Why should she settle, why should anybody settle, for somebody they don't feel the right sort of connection with? There is no point in dating somebody just so that you're not alone - being with the wrong person can be more lonely than being alone.

I wish I knew why I was the wrong person, for her and the other girls I've been into. I can only see it as a bearing on my personal worth.

 

It's not really possible to tell how old you are from those photos but looks wise I don't see a problem

If you can't really tell from the photos while knowing my actual age, then you can see how younger girls I interact with, don't have a clue. The very fact that I'm in the college environment means they automatically assume that I'm within a certain age. The fact that I act and dress young means they don't have a chance at actually guessing my correct age. And I won't correct them

 

Sorry SD I have been jumping up every couple of minutes to tend to my toddler who has a cold and my reading/posting is a little disjointed. I'm about to sign off to give him a bath and get him to bed.

No problem, I hope he feels better.

It might have been you, if you were clean-shaven and your hair was different/flatter? It wasn't either of those pics though, so if those are the only pics you've ever posted it wasn't you. You look pretty grumpy in both those pics , but you're not really bad-looking or anything. You should be at or above the attractiveness threshold for many women, as far as I can tell.

Probably not me then as I haven't been clean shaven in a long time. Yeah I do look grumpy in those pictures. I think I look much cuter when I smile I had a feeling that I was at least at the activeness threshold for many women. Which actually makes it harder for me to understand why I've been single for so long. I'm not an ugly dude or fat or mean or really weird. I would be happy knowing what it was, because I could actively work on changing it.

It's hard to tell if you look 29, in a closeup you might have more visible lines around your eyes, etc. You look younger than that to me, and you dress younger than that, but you don't really look 18 either. I agree with Little Tiger that attractive college-aged girls often tend to be both more shallow and less empathetic than most other generalized groups of women, btw. I think it's both a social construct thing and a hormonal thing, although that's pure speculation on my part. You could be making things harder for yourself by targeting this group.

Yeah I do have some lines below my eyes, but a girl has to look really closely at me to see them. But with that distance we'd be making out

 

I don't go after the really cute college age girls. But I wonder if the very fact that they are young makes them that hard to get. Lots of college girls have boyfriends so somebody managed to get them.

[mmk1]

Great thread. first, no girl is out of my league and you should have confidence in yourself. second, the poster who said confidence is overrated is dead wrong. So, have confidence in yourself but never go after girls who u r not attracted to, its pointless.

[Cracker Jack]

I have a lot of sympathy for the genuinely socially awkward, it is totally different and much more of a handicap than simply being a little shy or not knowing what to do with your hands or whatever some people think it is. I'm not trying to blow sunshine up anyone's ass, it's definitely hard work to improve on one's natural social skillset, to go against ingrained thought patterns, to learn new ways of processing information and to fill in gaps of perception. Sometimes even small improvements can be like miracles to your life, though.

 

In your case, SA = social anxiety? Have you ever tried any of the medications for that, or seen a therapist who specializes in it?

 

Yeah, Social Anxiety. Never took any medication, tho.

 

I had seen a therapist a few yrs back. She was really patient with me, and even said just about the same thing as you in regards to the significance of SA. She also helped me in many ways, such as having people (That she knew) come in and talk to me, so she could see how I would act in a potential social environment; sorta like a roleplay, but I had to be myself. It was a bit difficult, but I found myself getting used to chatting with people I didn't know (While under her presence), and it made me feel like I was getting somewhere. I had started out going to therapy pretty often--like once every two weeks; however, mid-way, it started to be about once a month.

 

After seeing my therapist close to eleven months, I felt like I had improved significantly--and that I likely would no longer need therapy. She was impressed and even told me "I made huge leaps towards improving my self-esteem and confidence", so I felt good about that. I was doing fine in social environments with people I hadn't known too well to an extent, but I eventually reverted right back to what I was before therapy. I really can't say why, but that whole "not good enough to be around others, but lucky that people are bothering to give me some attention" awkward outlook put me right back where I started.

 

That's why I often feel like these issues are worse than any (I've had issues with being 5'7" only, but I've gotten much better with that, and try to take my focus off of it as much as possible) physical issues I can think of. I really, really want to be a better person; seeing people laugh, and have good conversations outside makes me feel down. I feel like, unless I somehow improve my current self, I'll have no chance at being an outgoing person. I'm coming up on 23 in a few days, so I know there's still a chance to change before I get too old--but after feeling like this for so long after seemingly doing well, I feel like I just can't improve anymore.

 

Combine all of my issues from above with the fact that I've never had any real experience with relationships or women (Some slight experience with women who were in bad relationships or simply had gotten close to me and saw me as some type of rebound before eventually not talking to me anymore) in general, and I feel like I'm lacking experience in comparison to guys still in high school at this point of my life. I don't know how I can get better at all.

 

Sorry for typing so much.

[LittleTiger]

I'm more bugged at the fact that she won't even give me a chance.If there was a girl who I wasn't attracted to but still within my required attractiveness threshold, I'd give her a chance and see if anything develops.

 

So tell me, what is your 'required attractiveness threshold'? I understand that there might be a level of looks below which you're not prepared to consider dating BUT if you're not attracted to a girl then why would you want anything to develop? It's like you're saying 'she not too ugly to be seen with so she'll do because she's better than nobody'.

 

I wish I knew why I was the wrong person, for her and the other girls I've been into. I can only see it as a bearing on my personal worth.

 

You're the wrong person for these girls because they are not physically attracted to you, they don't think of you as 'boyfriend' material - it's as simple as that. Unless you base your personal worth on the number of college girls who find you physically attractive, this doesn't in any way relate to your worth. They obviously still like you and want to be your friend so you have considerable worth, based on that alone.

 

I have a number of very good male friends, none of whom I would consider dating because I am not attracted to them. They're great people, one or two are even good looking, but the 'chemistry' isn't there. It's about pheromones as I said before and 'a certain something' that is indefinable. You can't force an attraction between two people so why go after a girl you don't really want.

 

If you can't really tell from the photos while knowing my actual age, then you can see how younger girls I interact with, don't have a clue. The very fact that I'm in the college environment means they automatically assume that I'm within a certain age. The fact that I act and dress young means they don't have a chance at actually guessing my correct age. And I won't correct them

 

It's impossible to tell anybody's age from a photograph, especially on a computer with the eyes blacked out. I'm curious why you don't want these girls to know your age. Presumably that means even the girls you hang out with as friends don't know your age? I really don't understand your thinking about this as it strikes me as a little dishonest. If I was an 18 year old girl hanging out with a guy friend I thought was 22 and then it turned out he was actually 29, I would consider that a little creepy - sorry but I would.

[Stung]

Yeah, Social Anxiety. Never took any medication, tho.

... I feel like, unless I somehow improve my current self, I'll have no chance at being an outgoing person. I'm coming up on 23 in a few days, so I know there's still a chance to change before I get too old--but after feeling like this for so long after seemingly doing well, I feel like I just can't improve anymore.

... I don't know how I can get better at all.

 

Sorry for typing so much.

 

No worries, I'm not exactly known for my succinct one-liners, either.

 

CJ, it sounds to me like you were making progress but maybe you left therapy too soon. Eleven months of once (sometimes twice) a month sessions really is NOT all that much time, and unfortunately things like social anxiety are rarely 'cured', they require a lot of ongoing maintenance work and constant critical self-evaluation. A regression is nothing to be ashamed of or depressed about, it happens all the time, but you will have to roll up your sleeves and get back in there. I would advise you to contact your former therapist, as you liked her and felt she was helpful. You might also want to research other methods of treatment, if you want to experiment a little. A really good cognitive behaviorist might be helpful, but I'm theorizing here as I'm definitely no expert in social anxiety. I did know somebody who had trouble with SA and took medication for it that she said had done wonders, so it's possible that's an option for you--but I am always hesitant to advocate medication right away; the drugs do work miracles for a lot of people, but sometimes they are prescribed recklessly, IMO.

 

If it helps, when I was your age I was really struggling with clinical depression, and I felt like there was no way out. Every day was like drowning in brackish water from the moment I opened my eyes, and I thought it would be that way forever--but while I will have to monitor myself for signs of relapse for the rest of my life, here I am years later, happy, productive, living in an entirely different world. I pulled myself out of the mire and I plan to never let it close over my head again. New lives can unfold.

 

 

 

It's impossible to tell anybody's age from a photograph, especially on a computer with the eyes blacked out. I'm curious why you don't want these girls to know your age. Presumably that means even the girls you hang out with as friends don't know your age? I really don't understand your thinking about this as it strikes me as a little dishonest. If I was an 18 year old girl hanging out with a guy friend I thought was 22 and then it turned out he was actually 29, I would consider that a little creepy - sorry but I would.

Yeah, honestly I would too.

 

 

Also I have never understood why some guys feel it is like an actual insult when a woman wants to befriend them. I understand that it might not have been his goal, it might be a disappointment initially, but isn't it good to make a new friend, and doesn't it reflect well on him still? I am not friends with morons and assh*les, my friends are quality people.

[Cracker Jack]

No worries, I'm not exactly known for my succinct one-liners, either.

 

CJ, it sounds to me like you were making progress but maybe you left therapy too soon. Eleven months of once (sometimes twice) a month sessions really is NOT all that much time, and unfortunately things like social anxiety are rarely 'cured', they require a lot of ongoing maintenance work and constant critical self-evaluation. A regression is nothing to be ashamed of or depressed about, it happens all the time, but you will have to roll up your sleeves and get back in there. I would advise you to contact your former therapist, as you liked her and felt she was helpful. You might also want to research other methods of treatment, if you want to experiment a little. A really good cognitive behaviorist might be helpful, but I'm theorizing here as I'm definitely no expert in social anxiety. I did know somebody who had trouble with SA and took medication for it that she said had done wonders, so it's possible that's an option for you--but I am always hesitant to advocate medication right away; the drugs do work miracles for a lot of people, but sometimes they are prescribed recklessly, IMO.

 

If it helps, when I was your age I was really struggling with clinical depression, and I felt like there was no way out. Every day was like drowning in brackish water from the moment I opened my eyes, and I thought it would be that way forever--but while I will have to monitor myself for signs of relapse for the rest of my life, here I am years later, happy, productive, living in an entirely different world. I pulled myself out of the mire and I plan to never let it close over my head again. New lives can unfold.

 

Thanks, Stung. And I agree with you. I'm considering going back, since it's better than sitting around and doing nothing to improve. Interesting take on the meds, tho. I had often heard about how well they could help others, but I was always reluctant to go that route. As bad as my anxiety is, I'm glad I'm feeling rational enough to consider all of options at this point--that's why reading your post is nice. Even if my SA isn't fully suppressed, I'd like to get it down to a point where it's manageable.

 

Your story does help. It's making me realize that it's too early to throw in the towel. I'm really not okay with having anxiety, so it's up to me to find a way around this. I know it can be done, I just have to be more motivated. Thanks again.

[somedude81]

So tell me, what is your 'required attractiveness threshold'? I understand that there might be a level of looks below which you're not prepared to consider dating BUT if you're not attracted to a girl then why would you want anything to develop? It's like you're saying 'she not too ugly to be seen with so she'll do because she's better than nobody'.

There are many girls that are cute but I'm not attracted to them. It's usually because I don't know them that well. Once I get to know her better and get a feel for her personality, then I can become attracted and consider dating her.

 

So yes, things would develop over time.

You're the wrong person for these girls because they are not physically attracted to you, they don't think of you as 'boyfriend' material - it's as simple as that. Unless you base your personal worth on the number of college girls who find you physically attractive, this doesn't in any way relate to your worth. They obviously still like you and want to be your friend so you have considerable worth, based on that alone.

From what I gather by reading these forums, women are only attracted to guys who could be male models. So I've accepted that women will never be physically attracted to me at first.

 

Boyfriend material? I think I'd be a great boyfriend. Though it seems that girls would rather be with jerks who'd cheat on her and maybe smack her around.

 

 

They're great people, one or two are even good looking, but the 'chemistry' isn't there. It's about pheromones as I said before and 'a certain something' that is indefinable. You can't force an attraction between two people

Sorry but I think that both chemistry and pheromones are complete BS. A girl has got to be extremely close to me to be able to smell me. Even then it's questionable if she can detect anything. Chemistry is just a garbage term.

I'm curious why you don't want these girls to know your age. Presumably that means even the girls you hang out with as friends don't know your age? I really don't understand your thinking about this as it strikes me as a little dishonest. If I was an 18 year old girl hanging out with a guy friend I thought was 22 and then it turned out he was actually 29, I would consider that a little creepy - sorry but I would.

I don't want a girl to instantly write me off because she might think I'm too old for her. My age is just a number it doesn't affect who I am. I have a had enough time getting girls as it is, I don't want to carry around something else that makes it even harder.

 

Why would you think it's creepy? What if the guy never talked about his age? It's not like he was lying. Again the age is just a number, judge him by who he is.

 

Also I have never understood why some guys feel it is like an actual insult when a woman wants to befriend them. I understand that it might not have been his goal, it might be a disappointment initially, but isn't it good to make a new friend, and doesn't it reflect well on him still? I am not friends with morons and assh*les, my friends are quality people.

"We can still be friends" is a huge insult to a man. Of course this is only true if he had no intention of being her friend.

 

How would you feel if you were in a contest to win a new car. You're on stage, you spin the wheel and you win an air-freshener.

 

That almost describes the disappointment from being rejected but being offered friendship as a replacement.

 

Men have a natural and very strong desire to have sex with women, friendship is not a goal.

Edited October 19, 2010 by somedude81

[LittleTiger]

From what I gather by reading these forums, women are only attracted to guys who could be male models. So I've accepted that women will never be physically attracted to me at first.

 

Yes, of course, you're right. All women are only attracted to male model good looks and there are so few guys like that around that we all settle for someone we don't find attractive. Oh, and we just whistle silently to ourselves during sex so that we can pretend we're not doing it with someone who doesn't turn us on at all.

 

Boyfriend material? I think I'd be a great boyfriend.

 

I'm sorry but this is entirely subjective. The girls you are hitting on/friends with don't think you are boyfriend material. That's what counts.

 

Sorry but I think that both chemistry and pheromones are complete BS. A girl has got to be extremely close to me to be able to smell me. Even then it's questionable if she can detect anything. Chemistry is just a garbage term.

 

You can think what you like, it doesn't stop it from being a scientific fact. It's as true as the fact that the world is round, not flat, and pheromones can be detected by both sexes from a significant distance.

 

I don't want a girl to instantly write me off because she might think I'm too old for her. My age is just a number it doesn't affect who I am. I have a had enough time getting girls as it is, I don't want to carry around something else that makes it even harder.

 

Why would you think it's creepy? What if the guy never talked about his age? It's not like he was lying. Again the age is just a number, judge him by who he is.

 

If age is just a number then why not come clean? Any girl who is genuinely attracted to you won't care how old you are, but she WILL write you off instantly if she thinks you're younger and that you've been dishonest about your age. You may not actually talk about it but from everything you've said you are deliberately giving the impression that you are younger and girls have 'guessed' but you haven't corrected them!

 

Men have a natural and very strong desire to have sex with women, friendship is not a goal.

 

Of course they do, but not with every woman they meet. This, right here, is your problem. You say you hang around with girls at college who consider you their friend and yet your only interest in them is as a potential sex partner - sorry but I'm creeped out again.

 

I have guy friends who I know are sexually interested in me, although I'm not interested in them. That in itself is not a problem. However, if they were constantly hitting on me and I thought they were only friends with me in the hope that one day I would drop my knickers for them, they wouldn't see me for dust.

 

If you're interested in a girl, be honest with her. If she says no, that's it. End of! She's a friend and you're getting nothing more. If you push it you're a creep. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

[Eeyore79]

I'm not sure I agree with the suggestion that women are so hung up on looks - I'm certainly not, at least not once I get to know someone.

 

I remember this guy who once asked me on a date, and I said no because I simply didn't feel any physical attraction towards him. We continued being friends, and I found out that he was smart, decent, honest, talented, and fun to be with. He demonstrated time and time again that he was a wonderful person who I could trust and rely on, and over the course of a few months I started to find myself feeling attracted to him. I stopped noticing that he was a bit overweight with slightly thinning hair, and instead I noticed that his eyes were a lovely colour and I liked his smile. Eventually we ended up dating

 

I will, however, admit that he wasn't completely repulsive. He wasn't physically attractive (he was probably below average in that respect) but he wasn't vomit inducing. He was still on the right side of that line of minimum attractiveness, which is actually drawn very low down the attractiveness scale if I like someone as a person.

[Sauvignon]

Leagues do not really matter. You can position yourself to an 'upper league' without much trouble at all.

 

The thing is that it is better if we start the game with someone outside of our league. It will make you want to improve your own life: wear better clothes, eat healthier, exercise more, wash more often, keep your home neat, buy that eau de toilette you have not thought important before. It will improve the quality of your life and is easy to accomplish thanks to the chemicals in your body that are emitted when facing a challenge, you suddnely have extra energy seemingly out of nowhere.

 

And you know what's the result? Suddenly he or she is not outside your league anymore.

 

This is so because of our nature. We want to 'mate' with as great a person as possible and to do so, we have to make ourselves worthy of them.

[that girl]

I remember this guy who once asked me on a date, and I said no because I simply didn't feel any physical attraction towards him. We continued being friends, and I found out that he was smart, decent, honest, talented, and fun to be with. He demonstrated time and time again that he was a wonderful person who I could trust and rely on, and over the course of a few months I started to find myself feeling attracted to him. I stopped noticing that he was a bit overweight with slightly thinning hair, and instead I noticed that his eyes were a lovely colour and I liked his smile. Eventually we ended up dating

 

 

See it is stories like these that give guys too much hope.

 

I know what you mean though and it does happen. The thing is, it is fairly uncommon and most of the time when it does happen the guy was not still holding on and they developed a real friendship (frequently lasting years). It isn't something a guy should bet on.

 

From what I gather by reading these forums, women are only attracted to guys who could be male models.

Please, I have never found that to be true but there are always a lot of guys out there who think women shouldn't care about looks at all and that isn't going to happen.

 

I don't want a girl to instantly write me off because she might think I'm too old for her. My age is just a number it doesn't affect who I am.

Lying about it does no good though. Personally, I felt guys over 25 were too old for me in college. Lots of girls don't feel this way so they wouldn't be bothered hearing your age. But someone who does care is going to notice after a few dates and is very likely to stop seeing you if they feel mislead.

 

When it comes to leagues, I don't think anyone should be afraid to approach someone because they think the person might be out of their league. You never know what someone else finds attractive. I do think some people can set standards they are very likely to match in the real world (the 45 year old who won't consider anyone over 25, the morbidly obese person who is only interested in fitness model types). But then those people are only hurting themselves.

[counterman]

I do not think of leagues when hitting on somebody. If I am attracted to her, then that's enough. However, as I have pointed out in my thread, I haven't really hit on a really, super-attractive girl before. Maybe it is being realistic? But, surely if I feel the attraction, I would just go for it.

 

Asking someone who you're not attracted to is just... I don't know, I wouldn't be able to do it. I can't force it.

 

Though, I have heard of people growing on each other... one wasn't attracted at first and then over time something developed. However, I find it really hard to envisage something like this happening to me. My girl friends are friends but not close. The girls that I weren't attacted to that have liked me never end up dating me.

[somedude81]

Yes, of course, you're right. All women are only attracted to male model good looks and there are so few guys like that around that we all settle for someone we don't find attractive. Oh, and we just whistle silently to ourselves during sex so that we can pretend we're not doing it with someone who doesn't turn us on at all.

Uh, women don't settle. They'd rather be single or share the hot guy. Sometimes they want to have sex with him quickly to claim him becuase he has options. (That's taken directly from a thread a woman posted here)

I'm sorry but this is entirely subjective. The girls you are hitting on/friends with don't think you are boyfriend material. That's what counts.

Boyfriend material is as undefined as chemistry. Both are nothing but concepts.

You can think what you like, it doesn't stop it from being a scientific fact. It's as true as the fact that the world is round, not flat, and pheromones can be detected by both sexes from a significant distance.

I find it really hard to believe that the reason I've been single for so long is because my pheromones haven't attracted any women that I've ever been in a 20 foot radius of.

 

I might as well just throw my hands up and let fate bring a girl into my life.

If age is just a number then why not come clean? Any girl who is genuinely attracted to you won't care how old you are, but she WILL write you off instantly if she thinks you're younger and that you've been dishonest about your age. You may not actually talk about it but from everything you've said you are deliberately giving the impression that you are younger and girls have 'guessed' but you haven't corrected them!

Because while age may just be a number to me, they might not think the same way.

 

I don't to be having a great time with a girl, she asks me my age, I tell her and she responds with, "Ugh, you're that old, you're just to old for me." Then she leaves. I'll tell her once we've gotten to a level where she likes me enough to not care about my age.

 

Of course they do, but not with every woman they meet. This, right here, is your problem. You say you hang around with girls at college who consider you their friend and yet your only interest in them is as a potential sex partner - sorry but I'm creeped out again.

Uh...that's how guys are. BTW, I'm pretty sure these girls don't consider me friends. We talk during class and club meetings but that's all. We don't hang out and we're not even facebook friends.

 

Yes I want to have sex with them, that doesn't mean that I don't enjoy their company and talking to them. I would have sex with just about every girl in my class if I could. It's just a default response to women. It really doesn't mean anything.

I have guy friends who I know are sexually interested in me, although I'm not interested in them. That in itself is not a problem. However, if they were constantly hitting on me and I thought they were only friends with me in the hope that one day I would drop my knickers for them, they wouldn't see me for dust.

If they were constantly hitting on you, you wouldn't keep them as friends. Most guys know better. Also just because they want to have sex with you, doesn't mean that they are only your friends because they hope that one day they might get lucky.

 

Still, stop for a second and think. If you tried to sleep with one of your guy friends, taken or not, there's a 99% chance that he will let it happen. Most if not all of your guy friends have thought about sleeping with you.

If you're interested in a girl, be honest with her. If she says no, that's it. End of! She's a friend and you're getting nothing more. If you push it you're a creep. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

If she knows I'm interested, it's her fault for sticking around or letting me spend time with her. Of course I know that continuing to push it will make her think that I'm a creep.

See it is stories like these that give guys too much hope.

Yeah, hope is a scary thing.

Personally, I felt guys over 25 were too old for me in college. Lots of girls don't feel this way so they wouldn't be bothered hearing your age. But someone who does care is going to notice after a few dates and is very likely to stop seeing you if they feel mislead.

I have a hard enough time getting dates as it is so I'm trying to limit a girls exposure to anything that might make it harder for me. Frankly it's, "don't ask, don't tell." After a few dates, and if I feel that she won't run away, I'll tell her. Edited October 20, 2010 by somedude81

[SteveC80]

Of course they exist and yeah theyres a slim chance you can date out of your league but its pretty rare most couples are pretty evenly matched

 

Id say as a guy until you and women hit theyre late 20's early 30's your best bet is to date slightly down in league unless your really good looking

 

I say that because females get hit on and have allot more sexual advances then Men on their same level

 

A ehh average guy will go through tons of rejection and being igored by females till he gets one where a average female will get hit on possibly anytime she goes out to a large public place bar club etc,shell probably sleep with guys way above her league a few times and that might inflate her ego

 

It may take a few years for her to realize she was just used and cant get guys on that caliber in a relationshipand then "settle" for the average guy she ignored in her 20's

[somedude81]

I'm starting to become annoyed with a girl in my salsa class.

 

She's very attractive, great personality, lots of energy, completely out of my league.

 

She is more 'touchier' than every girl there, really nice and seems to be flirting with me.

 

The problem is that there's no way freaking way she's single. Being around her feels like a huge tease and I can already imagine the way's she'd reject me.

 

Don't girls know that it's not a good idea to to be too nice and flirty with a guy when they're taken?

[Knittress]

Don't girls know that it's not a good idea to to be too nice and flirty with a guy when they're taken?

 

The thing is, guys are generally too quick to misinterpret friendly behavior as sexual interest from an attractive women. Like you said - she has a warm, open personality. You wanting her isn't HER problem, why should she have to change who she is to suit YOU?

[Leigh 87]

The thing is, guys are generally too quick to misinterpret friendly behavior as sexual interest from an attractive women. Like you said - she has a warm, open personality. You wanting her isn't HER problem, why should she have to change who she is to suit YOU?

 

Cut this guy some slack; he is obivously not in the same league as very hot girls, so of course it SUCKS sometimes when you are up close dancing with a super hot girl BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU WILL NEVER GET ONE , lol!

 

 

And a hot body builder/ personal trainer slept down his league with me recently; he is perfection, perfect body AND FACE, yet I am.. NOT EVEN NORMAL LOOKING GUYS CHECK ME OUT omg.

 

And the guy did find me attractive, cos he does not actually do one nighyt stands normally. I was an exception. He has low self esteem, surprisingly.

 

It is also about the chemistry between two people; I am shy and weird, and he is VERY, VERy out going and bubbly and positive, yet we clicked and we had the right " energy" when we intereacted, to want to have sex with one another.

 

Although, a super hot model could probably get most guys to have sex with her even if she HAD NO chemistry with the guy; but this is very rare, as most people are notuper hot models.

 

For the most part, I think it biuls down to the normal/slightly attractive girls like me, who ar enothing special, that have the right connection with a super hot guy; it may be enough to get above your own league!

 

So this one hot guy found me attractive enough to enjoy playing with my body, when I am not that hot. I am certainly not in HIS league.

 

Dating or having sex with a person in a lower or higher league to your own league DOES happen, and hopefully it will happen for me

more often lol!!!!!

 

I did not actually feel attracted to the guy initially, because he is so out going and I am depressive and a little socially stand off - ish. furthermore, in addition to our opposite personalities, he has a perfect body and super cute face.

 

I did not even consider that a guy like him would find me attractive, so as a result, I felt nothing towards him at first. It was only after he said I was hot and expressed an interest that I felt any attraction.

[Titania22]

 

If the men on this board are below the threshold, they're going to have trouble meeting women. There might be things they can do to give themselves a boost, however: lose weight, clear up their acne, maybe just a better haircut/wardrobe--maybe they need to work on their posture, their eye contact, their voice projection, their smile. A lot of men underestimate the attention that women pay, even subliminally, to style, and to presence.

If they are above the threshold and still not getting dates, they should turn their attention to their other attributes. I know plenty of women who have been suckers for the husky short guy with the wicked grin, great sense of humor, and personal charisma, or the guy with the thinning hair and crappy day job who was passionate about his art and a fascinating conversationalist. They might need to work on their skills, including their interpersonal skills.

 

 

This is great advice for men. I have alot of single middle aged female friends who are interested in single middle aged men. But the general feeling as one lady put it was "they all have huge beer guts and wear baseball caps." Obviously that's a generalisation, but it isn't far off. I have met many men who are intelligent, somewhat interesting, polite, and have the capacity to be attractive, but as far as their weight and fashion sense goes, they have completely lost the plot.

 

Above-average? Now I'm sure your thinking of somebody else. I posted some pics in this post. How kind of you to say that my height is "not a huge benefit" to me. Don't worry, I know what you really mean.

 

 

 

Now forgive if I am wrong, but I checked out your pic, and if would genuinely like some makeover advice (that is purely about superficial appearance), I consulted my 15 year old daughter and we have some.

Take or leave as you will, but we thought you could afford to lose just a few kilos, not much, just a little to slim you down a bit, definately don't bulk up with muscle building. And try growing your hair a bit and getting a more modern haircut. If you are really feeling daring you could get some highlights. The haircut you had in the photo is a dime a dozen, and imo doesn't flatter any man.

 

I know this seems like a very superficial post, but hey this whole thread has been about the importance of looks. And it's much easier to change a few superficial details, then it is to change who you are as a person. So what's the harm in shaking it up.

 

And somedude you look fine, these are just ideas to help you look superfine, and stand out from the competition.

[Titania22]

Look at my pictures I linked to, do I look 29?

 

To me you look in the 26-29yr old age group.

[Titania22]

There are many girls that are cute but I'm not attracted to them. It's usually because I don't know them that well. Once I get to know her better and get a feel for her personality, then I can become attracted and consider dating her.

 

This is so cool. I know exactly what you mean. It makes life tricky when you can't tell these things upfront. Personly I can know I guy for 2 months before cupid shoots his arrow at me.

 

So yes, things would develop over time.

From what I gather by reading these forums, women are only attracted to guys who could be male models. So I've accepted that women will never be physically attracted to me at first.

 

Female attraction is very individual. Obviously I think the guys I find attractive are hot. Every single female I know tells me, 'He doesn't do anything for me, but I can see why YOU would like him.'

 

That almost describes the disappointment from being rejected but being offered friendship as a replacement.

 

Men have a natural and very strong desire to have sex with women, friendship is not a goal.

 

Actually I completely fell for a guy I was befriending recently and made my move, and got rejected. I would be over the moon if we could still be friends, because no matter my physical attraction for him, I would rather be a part of his life in some way, then absolutely no where where I am now.

[somedude81]

The thing is, guys are generally too quick to misinterpret friendly behavior as sexual interest from an attractive women. Like you said - she has a warm, open personality. You wanting her isn't HER problem, why should she have to change who she is to suit YOU?

Cut this guy some slack; he is obivously not in the same league as very hot girls, so of course it SUCKS sometimes when you are up close dancing with a super hot girl BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU WILL NEVER GET ONE , lol!

Leigh is basically right. I don't interact with hot women on a regular basis, it's actually only during my Salsa class.

 

Because she has a very warm, open personality, it's impossible to tell if she's possibly interested or if she's just being who she is.

 

Also, because of my low self-esteem I automatically think that women aren't into me. So when I'm with a girl and I think she's flirting with me my internal dialogue is something like, "She's being way too nice. That's just her personality. I think she's flirting with me. No, she does that with every guy. She just grabbed my ass! That doesn't mean she's into me, there's no way a girl could like me. (BTW the ass thing was a joke.)

It is also about the chemistry between two people; I am shy and weird, and he is VERY, VERy out going and bubbly and positive, yet we clicked and we had the right " energy" when we intereacted, to want to have sex with one another.

 

Although, a super hot model could probably get most guys to have sex with her even if she HAD NO chemistry with the guy; but this is very rare, as most people are notuper hot models.

Actually a normal looking, average girl could get most guys to have sex with her, chemistry or not.

 

The only guys that turn down sex with average girls, are either in relationships and don't want to cheat, or they get bombarded with sexual offers and don't feel a need to date down.

 

A normal girl sleeping with a super hot guy is not an accomplishment. How can it be when the only requirement is to be A. Female B. Not fat or ugly.

Now forgive if I am wrong, but I checked out your pic, and if would genuinely like some makeover advice (that is purely about superficial appearance), I consulted my 15 year old daughter and we have some.

Take or leave as you will, but we thought you could afford to lose just a few kilos, not much, just a little to slim you down a bit, definately don't bulk up with muscle building. And try growing your hair a bit and getting a more modern haircut. If you are really feeling daring you could get some highlights. The haircut you had in the photo is a dime a dozen, and imo doesn't flatter any man.

 

I know this seems like a very superficial post, but hey this whole thread has been about the importance of looks. And it's much easier to change a few superficial details, then it is to change who you are as a person. So what's the harm in shaking it up.

 

And somedude you look fine, these are just ideas to help you look superfine, and stand out from the competition.

Thank you for the tips. My plan is to slim down but after I bulk up. I need bigger arms and shoulders. It's so women won't think I'm weak and can't protect them just because I'm short and being strong will help with my self-esteem.

 

The faux-hawk is a style I no longer wear but my current one isn't much better. I hate my hair and it's very hard to do anything with it. When it gets long it starts to curl in the front and looks stupid. I need to keep it short to have some resemblance of style

This is so cool. I know exactly what you mean. It makes life tricky when you can't tell these things upfront. Personly I can know I guy for 2 months before cupid shoots his arrow at me.

Yeah it's hard.

 

Too bad most girls aren't like you. From what I've experienced. If a girl doesn't like me the first day I met her. She never will.

[carhill]

Also, because of my low self-esteem I automatically think that women aren't into me. So when I'm with a girl and I think she's flirting with me my internal dialogue is something like, "She's being way too nice. That's just her personality. I think she's flirting with me. No, she does that with every guy. She just grabbed my ass! That doesn't mean she's into me, there's no way a girl could like me. (BTW the ass thing was a joke.)

 

TBH, you don't have to have self esteem to feel that way, merely a lot of experience with women doing exactly that (yes, including the ass-grabbing) and then looking surprised when you respond and asserting 'you must have misunderstood'. Get fooled enough by ego feeders and it become Pavlov's response. However, you're young, so you've got a few more ego feeders left to experience in life. Respond as per how you feel, IMO.

 

Good on ya for learning salsa. That sounds cool

[donnamaybe]

When I was younger I would show interest in a guy JUST because he was good looking. It didn't matter that I knew nothing about him - yet.

 

As I grew older, however, I would watch people when I was out. Listen to them - not eavesdrop, but just get a feel for them as a person based on their mannerisms, behavior, sense of humor, etc. That is when the interest would either be there or not. That is when someone would look "better" than their initial looks or not. It made for much better connections.