Showing too much sympathy

[Silly_Girl]

Lots of new posters so just for background purposes, I met a MM when he was on the verge of leaving his wife, my appearance (with hindsight) made life a lot more bearable and it took him a long, long time (in my book) to tell his wife he'd met me, and subsequently that he was leaving. There was an interesting interim period where she refused to believe him and we seemed to have 2 'showdowns' rather than 1. The first one was 'I'm leaving'. The second one was 'I'm sorry, I'm STILL leaving'.

 

Anyway, he's not living there on a day-to-day basis, but doesn't get his permanent place until next week. So his base is essentially their house, so there's inevitable contact.

 

Getting to the point now... I have always felt a huge amount of guilt in respect of his wife, not necessarily for her as a person (I believe she has behaved pretty badly towards him at times, and there's definitely an aspect of emotional abuse in their marriage) but purely by virtue of her being his wife and him keeping me a secret for so long. I know how it feels to be lied to and to be suspicious 24/7, and feeling like you're possibly going crazy as nothing adds up etc etc. I've had some really bad dreams, even quite recently I woke in the night in tears from yet another bad dream about her.

 

I was talking to my counsellor about how my guy is getting an enormous guilt-trip from his wife, and some of the incredulous things she's said, and he finds it difficult. It doesn't make him think he should reconsider his decision, but it does bother him and I think it affects his behaviour towards her (he'd always hoped she'd sling him out and stay angry to make leaving easier!!). My counsellor said that I am being too sympathetic in respect of this. Well, in respect of wife's feelings. That it adds up to me colluding with him by not challenging the things which are said by her (I do, but I do it very gently). My counsellor says at the extreme I'm encouraging him to wallow in this.

 

I found it a really interesting point. I have never wanted to be heavy-handed in ANY way with regards the relationship they had. Not my place, not my business, wouldn't be respectful etc, might it cause him to clam up as opposed to open up etc etc etc. But my counsellor definitely has a point. I just wondered whether any of you ladies had possibly found yourselves in a similar situation and how you dealt with it. Seems to me it's quite a fine line.

[GreenEyedLady]

You know, at this point, it's time to make peace with what YOU want.

 

You are not responsible for the choices either made while they were married. You are only responsible for the choices you made/make.

 

I personally looked at my R like this: I loved my MM and I was unwilling to step aside when it was clear that he chose me. I acted in my own self-interest and the interest of our R. As so many BS's say the OW is nothing to them, the BS was nothing to me.

 

I do not mean that to sound so negative or selfish, but that is the truth. And after they separated, she did not make him feel guilty or even seem to care, so I think they both knew the R was over.

 

I guess it comes down to your own personality. Is it something that you can live with and get over?

 

Challenge him when he needs it. Help soothe him when he needs it. And above all, when she needs to be called on something, call her on it (in discussion with him). If he only hears one side, then he will start to believe it as truth.

 

GEL

[BB07]

Hi SG.........good to hear from you. I've been missing you.

Since I'm not qualified to give advice on this one, I'll refrain but I think GEL's was great and I'll echo one thing she said, don't take it all on your shoulders. Keep in mind that he choose to leave a bad relationship, you didn't make him.

[Silly_Girl]

You know, at this point, it's time to make peace with what YOU want.

 

You are not responsible for the choices either made while they were married. You are only responsible for the choices you made/make.

 

Yes, that's a really good point. One I need to take on board in other situations, not just this one.

 

I personally looked at my R like this: I loved my MM and I was unwilling to step aside when it was clear that he chose me. I acted in my own self-interest and the interest of our R. As so many BS's say the OW is nothing to them, the BS was nothing to me.

 

I stepped aside, let them 'get on with it', it didn't work, it will never work. We've tried it both ways. So I now am deeply committed to this.

 

I do not mean that to sound so negative or selfish, but that is the truth. And after they separated, she did not make him feel guilty or even seem to care, so I think they both knew the R was over.

 

I wish it were like that for us. There is a lot of (one-way) mud-slinging. If anything I'm frustrated he doesn't redress the balance a bit. But ultimately she said she was relieved not to be in limbo any more, and I second that.

 

I guess it comes down to your own personality. Is it something that you can live with and get over?

 

Oh my god yes. I know that this is the right thing, all round. This is not me spying something in the shop window and deciding I want it. There is so much wrong (deeply unusual) about them, and so much which is right about us, and I don't have any issue with the bare facts of him leaving her to be with me.

 

Challenge him when he needs it. Help soothe him when he needs it. And above all, when she needs to be called on something, call her on it (in discussion with him). If he only hears one side, then he will start to believe it as truth.

 

GEL

 

Yes, I need to balance it up a bit. I've bitten my tongue a few (dozen) times but sometimes I've had to say something. And I do still want to be there for HIM. I'm not here to badmouth someone, or do battle.

 

Probably too much over-thinking again!!! Cheers GEL!

[spice4life]

Hi, I'm a newbie and want to share my thoughts on what I have learned.

 

Let me start out by saying that when I was faced with this situation I failed miserably. If I had the opportunity to do it over again this is what I would do.

 

The first thing is, I would continue living my life no matter what. I don't mean that I would see other people, I would just continue living my life in ways that make me happy and be myself. After all, it is probably what attracted them to you in the first place right? Secondly, I would pull back a bit and let him know that I am not going anywhere and am there for him. I would be his rock because separation and divorce is one of the most difficult experiences in life. If I have learned anything at all about relationships, it's that one person has to be sane if the other is having a hard time and is flaking out from time to time. That goes both ways though. When it is all done, I would expect him to allow me to vent and flake out a bit too without taking it personal. You need some time to decompress...right?

 

I would also set my own personal boundaries and not let him project what he is going through with his stbx onto me. Listen, yes, challenge him, yes, but under no circumstances would I trash her in any way nor would I let him take his frustrations out on me. It's their relationship, their drama and not mine...period.

 

It's the next part I'm not sure about because I never got there! But, I would guess, after the rough part is over, it would be time to start finding a way to mend things on all sides...especially if there are children involved.

 

I don't know if this helps any.

[WTFBBQ]

Having an affair is not a sympathetic act, no?

Where is the sympathy of which you speak?

[Silly_Girl]

Having an affair is not a sympathetic act, no?

Where is the sympathy of which you speak?

 

I didn't claim infidelity to be a sympathetic act, did I? Nor was it when she cheated and then refused to break ties with the MM despite reconciling with her husband.

 

I suspect you fully understood my post and were just having a little stir. Hope it gave you much pleasure

[OWoman]

I was talking to my counsellor about how my guy is getting an enormous guilt-trip from his wife, and some of the incredulous things she's said, and he finds it difficult. It doesn't make him think he should reconsider his decision, but it does bother him and I think it affects his behaviour towards her (he'd always hoped she'd sling him out and stay angry to make leaving easier!!). My counsellor said that I am being too sympathetic in respect of this. Well, in respect of wife's feelings. That it adds up to me colluding with him by not challenging the things which are said by her (I do, but I do it very gently). My counsellor says at the extreme I'm encouraging him to wallow in this.

 

I found it a really interesting point. I have never wanted to be heavy-handed in ANY way with regards the relationship they had. Not my place, not my business, wouldn't be respectful etc, might it cause him to clam up as opposed to open up etc etc etc. But my counsellor definitely has a point. I just wondered whether any of you ladies had possibly found yourselves in a similar situation and how you dealt with it. Seems to me it's quite a fine line.

 

In the early days of the A, my H used to put himself down a lot, in small ways - like if someone was being a complete cretin and he showed the slightest sign of impatience, he'd apologise profusely for his lack of tolerance and confess to being an impatient, aggressive idiot. Which he's not, remotely - but which, with time, I'd come to recognise as his xW's perspective drilled into him. As a result he'd err on the other side, allowing himself to be exploited by every lazy or devious service provider, or belittled or made the butt of by any wannabe joker, or put down in all kinds of insidious ways.... with tired good humour. When I asked him why he put up with that, he was shocked - he was, after all, performing to spec, doing what he'd been told, playing the role he'd been given. He'd just assumed that was what he was supposed to do.

 

I'm the opposite - if someone gives me crap service, I'd rather confront it at the time, giving them the opportunity to improve, than slink away fuming on the inside. If someone disses me as a "joke" to make themselves look bigger, I up the ante with my own snappy comeback, and I don't suffer fools gladly. So I did not welcome a dynamic developing which cast me as the bad guy, always challenging the crap, while he came across as chilled and OK with it all - when he wasn't really. So we had A Talk. I told him that if he was happy to accept that kind of thing, that was fine - but I wasn't, and I was also not prepared to don the cloak of being The Assertive One in any situation that required assertiveness. I was not going to fight his battles, and I was not going to sit back and watch them go unfought either. I made it clear that it wasn't about what I wanted or didn't want him to do - it was about what I was and wasn't prepared to do myself. How he acted was his choice - but, similarly, my responses were going to take my own best interests into consideration.

 

It was a learning thing for him - he'd been so schooled in behaving the way she demanded he behave, that he'd almost completely lost touch with his own sense of appropriateness in situations, always looking to her for a sign of what to do or what not to do. He discussed it in IC and worked hard at it, and got back in touch with his own feelings and started asserting himself when he felt it was appropriate, and letting things go when they weren't a big enough deal. We're not always 100% in agreement on everything, which works really well (when he's stressing about the taxi taking a silly route to the airport, I'm chilled and can talk him down; when I'm fuming at an imbecilic waiter getting the order completely wrong, he's enjoying the surprise of a tasty dish he hadn't ordered).

 

It wasn't about me telling him what he should or shouldn't do. I'm not his xW. But it was about me being honest about a dynamic which threatened to develop between us which would have cast me in a role not unlike hers - a role I didn't want, that didn't fit me and that I refused to play. I insisted on being me, and left him to process that.

 

I'm reading your IC as saying s/he thinks you're censoring yourself in order not to be seen to be pushing him one way or another - that you're trying to remain neutral, so that he can make his own calls without shaping his responses around you. If you think that might be true, it's easy enough to address. Just be honest. I know how hard it can be with a guy who has been under his W's thumb, wanting him to make his own calls without interference, wanting him to take his own initiative and wanting him to call his own shots - which is important - but the danger is that in leaving things all up to him, you also write yourself out of the picture. You have your own voice, your own interests and your own desires, and he does need to consider those too for the R to stay healthy. His s2bxW's feelings are all very well, but where his response to these threatens the dynamic of your R with him in some way then it's no longer about her, but about the two of you - and that is very much your business! If you feel he's wallowing or acquiescing or backing down or in some way over-prioritising her (actual or projected) feelings, and that that is impacting on your R - you have every right to say so. You are not his IC, focused on him. Your focus should be on you - on your R, and on your partner, sure - but ultimately on yourself first. This R needs to be good for both of you, and you both need to be equal, adult partners in it, giving and taking in equal measure. Treating him with kidgloves denies him the opportunity to step up and prove himself to be worthy of that, to be worthy of you.

[Silly_Girl]

You completely get it OWoman. My guy does similar, he's the 'buffoon', we're expected to roll our eyes at him, he's not capable of making good choices etc etc. It was more like that than it is now. And I don't and have never seen him in that way. And I have talked to him about that sort of dynamic and how it doesn't work for us, and raised instances that prove it doesn't work for us. And you're right, what you say about my reactions. Thanks very much for this. Shall re-read and digest.