guest Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 P1xie, to my understanding of this, besides him lying to you about not viewing porn anymore, you are upset that his porn use is interfering and/or taking the place of your sex life. Am I right?? If this is the case and porn is taking the place of sex with you then I can completely sympathise with you. And those of you who are arguing with her and saying that "porn is ok and natural" and "you're trying to change him and control him" - I know most of you will agree that if porn is interfering with their sex life then it is a problem - and he should consider her feelings about it. I have read several of posts from many of you stating this very thing. I currently have the same problem with my husband. I am 28 (him 27) and we've only been married 3 1/2 years and we have basically have a sexless marriage (we only have sex about 1 or 2 times a month), because he chooses or should I say prefers to masturbate to porn instead having sex with me. And my husband, like yours, cannot reach orgasm with me the day after having sex with "himself" - and he does'nt even have a medical condition - that I know of. And that leaves me feeling totally inadequate. In my mind all I can think of is "what is wrong with me?" "is he not attracted to me anymore?" And this can tear anyone's self esteem down - even if normally you have great self esteem. And I personally don't have a problem with the porn itself - (I don't even really mind the fact that when we do have sex we have to have a tape playing to help him get off), but I do have a problem with it when it takes place of our sex life. I've been so upset and depressed about this for the last few months and we have talked about it, but he always says "I'm not a kid anymore, sex isn't as important to me anymore." Which, I think is a bunch of crap, cause he still likes sex with himself. Anyway, that's a whole other issue there...
lophix Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 As bad as this sounds to the guys on here, I sympathize and agree with p1xie...but then who am I? I only started reading this board last night out of frustration, but that's another story.... Porn can really put a dent in an otherwise happy relationship....the fact that he has "issues" after having fun with himself is an obvious sign. Before I met my fiance, I would never have thought of masturbating. But after having to spend a year away from her shortly after we met, she convinced me to try it while we were getting it on over the phone. Since then, I have progressively gone from a non-masturbater to doing it at least twice a week. We are now together again and it still goes on. (we have been together for 3.5yrs) She on the other hand has totally gone off masturbating and seems to have lost her sex drive (she claims the birth control pills might be the cause)..here i go going on about my problems again....I have asked myself why I do it many times and just can't come up with an answer...can any of you guys??? Yes, it IS satisfying (and i feel very dirty and can't look myself in the mirror after as well) but is that the only gratification??? Personal satisfaction? My fiance doesn't know of my problem...at least i don't think, nor do I hope she does, and I really think it IS a problem. I'm wishing i never started...and seeing p1xie's problem only serves to make me want to stop even more. Sorry, had to let out somewhere and this board seems to be as open as any I've seen...i think i've found a new perch...
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 Guest...yes that is how it is. dyemaker my boyfriend does not need to be casterated. I wonder if you have ever had a woman in your life. I don't need to validated but anyone, I have been validate by the following: Matthew 5 27. Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28. But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. I suppose now I will be called a "Jesus Freak" I think you all need to validate your views on Porn and will continue to call any user names, or say rude comments (moimeme) until the disagreeing person agrees with you. I'm do not need your approval. I came here seeking advice and to try to understand.
Darkangelism Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by P1xie I'm do not need your approval. I came here seeking advice and to try to understand. You argued with the advice that was given because it wasnt what you wanted to hear. If you want sympathy then that is wwhat your friends are for, if you want honest opinions thats what this is for. If you think that him looking at porn is adultery then leave.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 I don't think I would call it arguing I think I would call it defending myself. Do your opinions have to include derogatory comments and name calling?
moimeme Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 lophix - masturbating 'at least twice a week' is not anything horrible. A lot of guys do it at least once a day. If your gf has lost her libido and you get horny, it's a relief. As for feeling 'dirty' - don't. However you and your gf definitely need to ge to the bottom of the problem between you. I gather there can be sexual side-effects to taking birth control (well, heck, it sure IS birth control if it halts sex! ) but that they can be addressed.
moimeme Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 I think I would call it defending myself If you already have your mind made up, then isn't it kind of pointless to seek advice? Ditch the man, and be sure you warn any future men that you want them to absolutely abstain from anything to do with porn. That's what you want, so go do it.
jenny Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 just out of mild curiousity, do you think questioning whether or not dyer has a woman in his life (he does, by the way) might easily be considered derogatory? i'm not against you at all, pixie, we just disagree. you posted, we replied. only you can make the decision to leave your man. it's starting to be clear that you should leave, for both your sakes. i wish you well - i think you can find a man who is as against pornography as you are. just a heads up for the future - only pre-believers in the bible will see these quotes as a source of credible proof. i could quote hemingway until the cows return, but it's doubtful you would see that as indicative of anything, except, well, one fictional moment. interesting, but not convincing.
Darkangelism Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by P1xie I don't think I would call it arguing I think I would call it defending myself. Do your opinions have to include derogatory comments and name calling? I never called you a name.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 I didn't post it for proof. Just like porn religion has it's own views. Yes it was derogatory, but it a honest opinion.
moimeme Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Yes it was derogatory, but it a honest opinion Ah, so YOUR derogatory opinion is fine because somehow it is more honest? Well, you have friends here who believe the same.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 No I was just giving you all a taste of what it feels like on the other end so maybe you could have a better understanding. There are ways of stating your opinion without being cruel. You moimeme said probably the crueliest things here with your comments. But I guess it's easy to have opinions when you're not living with the issue. It's easy to say I'm just an angry girl no wonder he'd rather use porn than be with me. You don't have a clue but what your own mind wants to create. Maybe you get more pleasure in created the negative than the positive. This board validates it's views by bringing the person seeking help down, like it's somehow their fault, whether it's being controlling, too angry, etc.
quickmorph Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by jenny just a heads up for the future - only pre-believers in the bible will see these quotes as a source of credible proof. i could quote hemingway until the cows return, but it's doubtful you would see that as indicative of anything, except, well, one fictional moment. interesting, but not convincing. Right on, Jenny! But in this case I think the Kama Sutra might be a more appropriate text.
moimeme Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 no wonder he'd rather use porn than be with me Hold on just one second. I said nothing of the kind. Nor did I say anything cruel. You better go reread all of my posts on this. What I did say was that anger in relationships drives people apart and that if you are always angry at him, it is not surprising he may be turned off. This is common in relationships. Often, it is the man who is angry and the woman turned off, but the fact is that chronic anger on one person's part is not condusive to a good relationship, especially in the bed.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 It sounds as though you have a great relationship. Exactly the sort of relationship which would keep any guy turned on constantly. <----Exactly how is someone suppose to take that phrase??? Do you not get that your anger at him is probably one of the reasons sex with you doesn't work? <---- Or this one??? I get too hurt over the lies to be angry. We do not raise our voices to eachother because both our parents yelled at us as children. Nor do we call eachother names or say cruel things that we cannot take back. We both have an understanding because we've been through it before. If he was here reading this he would say my biggest problem is I'm a runner, I would rather run than face conflict. I'm working on this issue that is another reason I haven't left him. He too is a runner, he will just sit there and not say a thing. We are both working on our communication with out harsh words or yelling. I've said it before this is not black and white.
moimeme Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Your words: He says he wants to be my friend and I asked him would you break your a promise to your friend or lie to them. After a couple of days he asked how long I was going to angry about this breaking promises and lying. Accusing someone of 'lying' is the language of anger. Plus, you have just said you don't communicate well. Again, a healthy marriage needs all of the elements. Therapy might help you discuss the issue rather than running. Look. You have a problem. Many solutions have been proposed. You reject them all. So, again, why bother? Divorce him and be done with it.
HokeyReligions Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 I can certainly understand your feelings P1xie. When my husband and I were dating we discussed some of our habits and behaviors. He never smoked and I did. He looked at porn and I am morally against it. I won't state my reasons, but porn is a deal-breaker for me - as it is for many people. I quit smoking for my husband and it wasn't easy, but I did it. I also quit calling him all the time - I was a typical new girlfriend who seemed to want constant contact! LOL - I can laugh at myself now, but back then I was going through the normal insecurities. Anyway, there were quite a few things that we discussed and they all had to do with respect for each others feelings. I have a phobia about bugs and I told him that if he ever teased me with bugs -- chasing me or throwing even a dead bug my way, or being cruel when I ran screaming - he could consider that a farewell. He told me that if I ever called him Stupid, or used the word Stupid to describe something he does or says, then I can consider that a farewell. There are several things like that and porn is one of them. Like I said, my morals are my own and I don't need to explain them to anyone and I don't expect anyone else to share them, and to berate me because they disagree is just making themselves appear foolish and ignorant - but porn is not part of my life. I've seen some porn out of curiosity and my own research. Some of it made me sick some was just very funny, but I saw enough to know that it's not something I want in my life or in the lives of my family. I was clear on that with my husband and he said no problem - he only "used" porn when he was single anyway. The first time I found porn after we were engaged I was so hurt and angry. We talked, blah, blah, blah, got over it, resumed a healthy relationship and got married. I found porn again a few years later. Our sex life was beginning to deterioriate at that time and what hurt was that rather than put the effort into our marriage he put his energy into hiding his porn and deceiving me. I don't like to be deceived. We split up because of the deception, not because of the porn -- but many people have a difficult time understanding the distinction and they think it is a control issue or something. I understand. If you have followed any of my story (no sex for the last dozen-plus years of marriage, multiple break-ups, and currently in the midsts of a divorce (which we may not go through with)) then you know that there are/were a lot of other issues in my marriage. Porn still ranks right up there as a deal-breaker. When I found porn for the third time (after our sexual relations had dwindled to once every year or so) I kicked him out. He lied to me and that is why. He knows how I feel about pornography and I asked him to give it up for me and he did not. I kind of slapped my own face around that time because I started smoking again (had quit for 8 years!) and watched my SIL die of cancer and was going through all of this with my husband and I started smoking. It pissed him off royally, and I kept rubbing in his face the fact that at least I was honest about it and smoke in front of him! LOL! It was a wild roller-coaster for a long time and after 12+ years of celibacy he is trying to be closer to me now and establish a new intimacy. The funny/sad thing is -- I found porn on the computer! His excuse is that he was using it to stimulate a libido that had dried up years ago. I told him to see his doctor about Viagra and I started divorce proceedings. The porn was the trigger or last-straw, but not the total reason. We've stalled the proceedings now and have re-entered counselling and with my mothers recent illness we are getting to know each other again. I still have not decided if I can trust him - I don't thinks so, but I'm also trying to decide if I can accept a relationship without trust now in the hopes that I may have trust later, or if I want to just quit and move on. I've stayed away from the porn threads for a while because I know that my feelings are not popular on this board and I wasn't ready to deal with people who I normally like and respect telling me to 'get over it' when they don't understand, or want to understand that my feelings, my personal morality, my opinions are just as valid as theirs, or telling me that I have control issues and I can't change someone else. I am not trying to change someone else, or take away their own personal activities. However, I have guidelines and standards for what is acceptable to me and if someone loves me enough to promise to adhere to those guidelines and standards, then that is what I expect. They expect the same from me and to do otherwise is beyond disrespect. Habits are very hard to break and I don't expect it to be easy or for their to be no backsliding sometimes, but to practice deception in order to continue the behavior instead of trying to break the habit tells me that my feelings are not at the same place in his priority list as his feelings are on my priority list. I'm not a prude. I'm not insecure. I've seen enough varieties of pornography in my life to be able to form my own opinions. I enjoyed some soft porn when I was younger but not as a tool for self pleasure - more as something to talk and laugh about with my girlfriends, and to 'fit in' with others. But I have always found it distasteful. If your bf does not want to eliminate or drastically reduce his porn viewing for you, then you need to seriously talk with him about how you feel about each other and where you each rate in your own priority list. Have you visited the marriage builders website and read any of that? There is some good information there to read, and then some 'tests' that you each take and then discuss and these help open communications and help you to explain yourself so that your bf will understand your feelings better, and he will be able to communicate better with you and you will understand his feelings better. If you are honest and sincere about these things on the tests it may help you. I can give you one example from my life. My husband thinks it is just so funny to fart. I'll see him 'force' the farts out while hes spread out on the couch watching TV, or laying in bed or in the car. He grins and says "sorry" and then laughs. I hate it. I've told him and told him and told him how rude and disrespectful it is to me and that I would appreciate it if he would go in the bathroom or outside. Its not like the fart sneaks up on him - he can feel it coming and he forces it out. He laughed at me because he thought I was just being cute when I railed at him about it and when I seriously discussed it with him. He thought it was our way of joking together and that I enjoyed 'yelling' at him. After we took one of the tests on <removed> and I explained my feelings again about this annoying behavior he FINALLY got that I did not think it funny, I was not joking around, and I really hated this behavior. The next few times he did this in front of me I just looked at him and he realized what he had done and apologized. He is now getting a little better about it and going into the bathroom or outside. But it took over 20 years and an outside entity (marriage builders) to finally get it through his head how much this upset me. He would not indulge in this behavior in anyone elses house or around anyone else in our house, but he felt it was okay to be rude and disrespectful to me because I'm his wife. Did I change him? No. He changed a behavior that he knew upsets me. He still lets go sometimes, but not as often and he is getting better about it. Substitute 'porn' for 'fart' and its the same principle.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 He says he wants to be my friend and I asked him would you break your a promise to your friend or lie to them. After a couple of days he asked how long I was going to angry about this <--- I was not ready to talk about it. I then told him I was not angry I was hurt. It is a manner of speech not literal. That is when I told him that I was hurt and explained my feelings As for the lying I did not accuse it is a fact he was caught. At least I can say if I've said something wrong or if someone misinterprets what I've said as in the rape issue I can apologize. And no I do not want a apology it would mean absolutely nothing. You're words are black and white and I'm not going to waste my energy writing anymore on your heartless comments.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 Originally posted by HokeyReligions We split up because of the deception, not because of the porn -- but many people have a difficult time understanding the distinction and they think it is a control issue or something. I understand. I've stayed away from the porn threads for a while because I know that my feelings are not popular on this board and I wasn't ready to deal with people who I normally like and respect telling me to 'get over it' when they don't understand, or want to understand that my feelings, my personal morality, my opinions are just as valid as theirs, or telling me that I have control issues and I can't change someone else. I am not trying to change someone else, or take away their own personal activities. However, I have guidelines and standards for what is acceptable to me and if someone loves me enough to promise to adhere to those guidelines and standards, then that is what I expect. They expect the same from me and to do otherwise is beyond disrespect. I'm thinking I should stay away myself...You have a better way of expressing your feelings that I have here.
moimeme Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Well, Hoke, I just do not get it. I try hard to understand things from folks' points of view, but I simply cannot get my head around some of your 'deal-breakers'. Some things might be worth it, but others not. Smoking I get - it's an actual health issue. Teasing with bugs I get; that would be a deliberate act and nobody is going to inadvertently toss a bug at someone. Calling someone 'stupid' is not so cut-and-dried. Sometimes words leap to the lips having bypassed the brain. Making that a deal-breaker seems a trifle unforgiving. And porn - to me, it's the symbolism that one person imbues to porn that causes them the problem. It is one thing to frighten someone - but to just do something that happens to displease someone which otherwise affects nobody - I don't get. Leaving garbage around means somebody else has to deal with it so I'd get that. I think 'action' films are stupid. The plots are lame and the violence is gratuitous. Some of them disgust me - but I'd never leave a perfectly good person that I love because he happens to like action films. Now, if he watched them 24/7, it would be another story because it would detract from our relationship, but if he wanted to watch the odd action movie every now and then - go forth and enjoy. I submit to you and to Pixie that porn has symbolism; whether it be that 'immoral' people use it or that the men use it instead of you or prefer it to you or something because in and of itself it causes no harm so to refuse to 'allow' another human to view it is just not logical or fair IMHO. if someone loves me enough to promise to adhere to those guidelines and standards, then that is what I expect. They expect the same from me and to do otherwise is beyond disrespect. The issue for me is what guidelines and standards are fair to expect. How come you didn't divorce him over the farts? What makes viewing porn that much worse that one is a major transgression and the other not? It is fair to expect your spouse to not cheat. It is not fair to expect him to put every piece of laundry in the basket two minutes after he removes it. And what is realistic? Is it realistic to expect someone who has had to go without sex for years to completely forget it? Sex is a biological urge; it's not just a bad habit. I think it would be every bit as unreasonable to tell your spouse that you will divorce him if he gains two pounds or sleeps more than six hours a night. Men have been using visual images to stimulate themselves since Adam was a pup. If they couldn't find it in a book or on a monitor, they'd draw it. I just do not think that railing against this is worth anybody's strength or energy, especially if the man in question loves you, is faithful to you, and your own sex life doesn't suffer.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 Smoking a deal breaker? What harm does it do to you? It's their body that will get cancer not yours. How does that effect you except that he may die at a early age but wouldn't that be his choice? Looks like we all have our deal breakers and just because you don't agree with mine does not mean they are any less valid than yours. I it would be another story because it would detract from our relationship <-- I do believe I implied the same statement. submit to you and to Pixie that porn has symbolism; whether it be that 'immoral' people use it or that the men use it instead of you or prefer it to you or something because in and of itself it causes no harm so to refuse to 'allow' another human to view it is just not logical or fair IMHO. If it was not causing any harm would I be here? Just because you don't find harm does not mean I do not.
Fritz Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Well to each their own. Though I can't wrap my head around the fart issue myself Hoke. I can understand hating someone being crass about it and rubbing my nose in it (say like a dutch oven..) but otherwise... Yeah, generally in polite company I'm gonna hold off on ripping one but the day I can't let one go in my own home or bed or car is the day I'm gonna burst from internal pressure.
PUflight Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 I'm in a relationship and my gf hates the fact that I have porn. Well it's pretty simple if the man is kept sexually satisfied he has no need for porn. I mean would you rather have him looking at porn or going out and finding what is lacking in the relationship aka sex. That's what I told my gf, I'm the kind of person that is brutally honest because I feel nothing is resolved unless that's brought up. End of story. You don't like the porn, then either take care of him sexually or move on, it's that simple.
Author P1xie Posted March 5, 2004 Author Posted March 5, 2004 I have never refused him sex. You may want to read all the post before assuming.
moimeme Posted March 5, 2004 Posted March 5, 2004 Smoking a deal breaker? What harm does it do to you? It's their body that will get cancer not yours. How does that effect you except that he may die at a early age but wouldn't that be his choice? It is a well-documented fact that second-hand smoke causes cancer.
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