Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 Jenny I was in no way trying to compare rape to porn! I apologize if anyone has mistaken that statement. I was trying to prove the point of my statement of "Boys will be boys". How society excuses things because of this analogy and men use it to their advantage. Watch the news and tell me who really is on trial? What is one of the biggest fears of a community when it hears that a local adult store or a strip joint is be established? There can be a connection to porn and rape, but that was not the point I was making. By no means do I feel anyone should be arrested for having porn (unless it's underage porn). I've already stated that I find it a form of cheating. He is doing everything except the actual deed in his heart and mind. If I feel the need to pleasure myself I think of him. I can honestly say that. I love only him and could not even fantasize about being with another. He's all I think about. Maybe I wish would think the same of me.
Darkangelism Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Porn is not in the heart and mind. Porn is not cheating, and by saying that he cant is pretty much asking an impossible task, you only set him up to fail and seem like he is lying. You are a control freak. You cannot accept that he looks at porn, its not like he has any emotional attachment to the porn. You asking him to stop would be like him to tell you that you can't wear makeup because you are trying to attract other guys with it. If you cant accept him for who he is, then don't be with him. Though i would expect it to be hard to find a guy that won't look at porn ocassionally.
Darkangelism Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by P1xie There can be a connection to porn and rape, What connection?
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 Just like I have my opinion about it you too can have yours. Just because you say it's not cheating does not change my belief that it is. If he does not have an emotional attachment then tell me why he kept a playboy with his favorite WWE Superstar telling me it was for sentimental reasons? I accepted this he keeps it in the attic. If this was an ocassional thing I would not be as upset. (I'd still be upset) I have not once said how often it happens. Seems as always everyone is set on blaming the female. Now I'm a control freak. How about some self control on his part. Tell me when you're looking at porn are you not thinking about what it's like to be with that person, what it may feel like? He's told me that he imagines what it would be like with whoever he's looking at. Yes we have discussions on this. I've been trying to get a understanding on it and no I will not except the excuse that everyone does it so it's ok.
Errol Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 It doesn't sound like the issue is about porn at all. What I get from reading all of this is that the bottom line is Person A is hurting Person B because of a hurtful behavior. Person A claims to love Person B and promises to to discontinue the hurtful behavior. Person A breaks that promise. It could be because; Person A made the promise without thinking it through and at the time the promise was made thought that the behavior could easily be done away with, and discovered later that they were addicted to the behavior (like saying you will quit smoking for someone - it's hard to do and sometimes it is impossible). The addiction does not necessarily mean they don't love Person B and put them first, but it is an addiction and has more influence over Person A then they realize. Same as above, only instead of addiction it is a habit that is very difficult to break - they find themselves in the midst of the behavior before they realize it - like biting fingernails. They don't know why they engage in the behavior when they know it will hurt Person B. Person A made the promise knowing full well that they would continue the behavior, but secretly, because they thought it was an unfair request and didn't understand that it really hurt Persons B's feelings. Same as above, but they do understand it will hurt Person B's feelings but they have devalued those feelings and are of the mind set that what Person B doesn't know won't hurt them. It doesn't matter if its porn, or biting fingernails, or smoking, or drinking, or picking their nose, or farting in public, or whatever. It is a behavior that is hurtful to one person. If it can't be stopped or given up voluntarily and because they want to out of love, then both parties need to really think about adjusting to and accepting the behavior, or moving on. We all have deal-breakers in our relationships and porn is just one of them. There are men who don't depend on porn, don't seek it out, and will naturally or voluntarily stop viewing porn when they are in a relationship. Trying to change another person's feelings won't work and everyone telling these women to get over it, and to stop trying to change their men - is doing the same thing. Trying to change the women who find porn offensive.
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 What is one of the biggest fears of a community when it hears that a local adult store or a strip joint is be established? <-- People worried that the crime and rape will increase due these type of establishments moving in to their neighborhoods. I'm not saying I agree with this I'm just stating a fact of what I see the picket lines are saying when they try to protest.
Darkangelism Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Strip clubs yes cause that involves alcohol, porn stores bcause of kids, porn does not cause men to rape people.
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 I am no way an expert on why men rape women nor did I ever state that looking at porn makes men rape. I think you are just looking for an agruement.
Darkangelism Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by P1xie I think you are just looking for an agruement. And what are you looking for?
Confused123 Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Ok, I actaully was one on those people that wrote a porn thread, when I first became a user. I HATED the fact that my boyfriend watched that crap... I didn't understand it, i told him how it made me feel. Like I was not good enough for him, and so on.... Well, I have come to a new conclusion... I still don't like the thought of him sitting in front of his computer finding pleasure in something other then me.. However, I have changed my viewpoint on it. I mean believe me, I still don't like it, I never really will. But, i realized that it is not my right to tell him not to give himself self-pleasure when I am not around... I mean I am gulity of the same crime... I bought myself a vibrator and it was the best thing I could have ever done for myself. If he doesn't meet my needs, I can do it myself.. Now the interesting factor is he is not a hugh fan of it. He somethings ask me how much I use it and when... So, I gave him a taste of his own medicine and calmed my own nerves in the process... So, I am not trying to tell you to run out and buy yourself a vibraror (however, I wouldn't discourage it either). Beleive me I understand your point, you feel it is a issue of respect and he lied to you, I had the same issue. However, This is the way I came to see it. He is the best man I have ever been with. He would never cheat on me, he has never been anything, but I wonderful man to me. So, I decided to take my insercuries, cause that is what it really is.. I mean we can wrap it up in other meaning. But, it boils down to being insecure about your man looking at other women and finding sexual pleasure in something other then you. I decided to take the advice of the many man the respond to these post and stop caring so much. Good luck and really do understand how you feel. We had so many discussion about it, I just came to realize that there are more important things to care about, cause I know where his heart is.....
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 Thank you again Errol you seem to understand exactly what I'm trying to say. I am not leaving my boyfriend and it is so weird when we first discussed why I was upset he tried to say it was no big deal the usual guy thing. After a couple of days he asked how long I was going to angry about this. I told him that I was not angry but extremely hurt, not because he was looking at porn but because I believed him when he said he wouldn't and that it could of been about anything. He then understood and said he was sorry. Not sorry for looking at porn but sorry that lied and broke his word. This issue isn't black and white like it seems most think here. It's not easy for either parties. Me and my boyfriend both were without a someone in our lives for over 3 years before we met eachother. Porn was his only means of to stimulate himself for most of his life so I do realize that it is just as hard for him as myself. He has some serious issue when it comes to women and openly admits them, that is part of the reason I stand by him. He's had hard times performing in the past and has been laughed at. Yes I think I would of turned to porn too. He at times will say he doesn't need it but like you said old habits are hard to break. I just don't want him to say he's going to stop then come home or wake up in the middle of the night to see that he hasn't kept his word. We are both working on eachother and that is all we can do. To do this we must both try to understand eachothers feelings and not try to hurt them, break promises or lie because that just leads to pain and resentment.
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 Darkangelism I was looking for a little compassion and advice. Not to be called names or get into agruements.
dyermaker Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 The biggest problem with pornography, as I see it, is that people will use their boyfriend's porn problem as a scapegoat--deluding themselves into thinking that if he JUST stopped looking at porn for you, the problems would go away. Unhealthy use of porn is a symptom, not a catalyst.
Errol Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by P1xie Thank you again Errol you seem to understand exactly what I'm trying to say. I am not leaving my boyfriend and it is so weird when we first discussed why I was upset he tried to say it was no big deal the usual guy thing. After a couple of days he asked how long I was going to angry about this. I told him that I was not angry but extremely hurt, not because he was looking at porn but because I believed him when he said he wouldn't and that it could of been about anything. He then understood and said he was sorry. Not sorry for looking at porn but sorry that lied and broke his word. This issue isn't black and white like it seems most think here. It's not easy for either parties. Me and my boyfriend both were without a someone in our lives for over 3 years before we met eachother. Porn was his only means of to stimulate himself for most of his life so I do realize that it is just as hard for him as myself. He has some serious issue when it comes to women and openly admits them, that is part of the reason I stand by him. He's had hard times performing in the past and has been laughed at. Yes I think I would of turned to porn too. He at times will say he doesn't need it but like you said old habits are hard to break. I just don't want him to say he's going to stop then come home or wake up in the middle of the night to see that he hasn't kept his word. We are both working on eachother and that is all we can do. To do this we must both try to understand eachothers feelings and not try to hurt them, break promises or lie because that just leads to pain and resentment. Understanding that the issue is not porn itself is good. Understanding that maybe he cannot (maybe should not?) just stop using porn and accepting it is something else. Can you, knowing his past and his emotions, accept that he may sometimes choose to use porn for his own pleasure? Can you set some guidelines for each other regarding this issue? Do you need to know when he views porn, or can you accept that when he's home alone he MAY be using it or he may not and be ok with not knowing the details, as long as it does not interfere with your own lovemaking or become a replacement? Then maybe he can curb his use or get into a new habit of asking himself before he views porn if he really needs to right then or if he can maybe just wait for you for later. If it's the lieing that is bothering you and you both agree that limited use of porn is acceptable, then you need to be sure you don't ask every day when you come home if he has used porn that day. It will get old and embarassing maybe for him to say 'yes' and it may leave you feeling down knowing that he masturbated that day to porn. If the frequency or intensity of your lovemaking decreases a lot then there might be a bigger problem with porn. Instead of only him making a change, perhaps you both need to make changes toward each other---meet each other halfway.
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 No not all our problems will go away, but I would feel a lot better about our relationship. But what would even better strengthen our relationship is if he did not lie about it or think what I don't know won't hurt me...because eventually it will catch up to him. I told him from the beginning my views as he told me his views on women who frequent bars. He told me from the beginning that even though he knew I did not ever hang out at bars if I did he would leave me. He did not want that kind of woman in his life. We all have expectations in people and if we decide we love them enough we change or at least adjust to the other person needs. I believe that is part of growing together. No drugs no excessive drinking, no top-less bars, no porn, no smoking, no weight gain. The list can go on forever... We either make the sacrifice or we don't. I hope he loves me enough to make the sacrifice.
moimeme Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 No drugs no excessive drinking, no top-less bars, no porn, no smoking, no weight gain. The list can go on forever... Unfortunately, it can. You want all of your husband's thoughts focused on you and nobody else. Sorry, but this is unrealistic and unfair. Not gonna happen. Even if he finds the pictures attractive, it does not mean he's fallen in love with them or would leave you for them. You think this is the case, but it is not. Sometimes our problems with someone else arise from the way we think; if we change how we think, the problem goes away. It's easy to do, but people REFUSE to do it, even though it might solve the grief for all. Your choice.
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 I think I could except it a lot better if it didn't effect us. I don't know if he is capable of that though. I never ask him if he has been using porn. He is sometimes careless and forgets to change the channel and I will be the next person to turn on the TV. I don't look for it. It's the last thing I want to find. He made no promises this time but discontinued the channels with the porn. I'm not putting any great expectations on him this time since he did not give his word.
dyermaker Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 I hate the argument that "we love each other, so he should change for me" If you truly love someone, you accept them for how they are, or enable a relationship in which issues can be discussed and concluded mutually.
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 No drugs no excessive drinking, no top-less bars, no porn, no smoking, no weight gain. The list can go on forever... That isn't our list I was just stating that people have their own list of what they expect. Porn is no different than not wanting someone to do the above. It seems with Porn everyone thinks that you should accept it but I'm sure if you thought about it there are things that you do not want in your life that someone else would say that you're trying to change the person. Some people who don't smoke don't want a smoker, but a smoker is not going to want to change their habit. A smoker will probably accept another smoker. A smoker may quit to be with the person who doesn't want a smoker in their lives.
amazinglywow Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 i've been in your situation, and felt the same way. and till this day i'm coping with it. since i've caught him, he's made me feel so insecure. i've never been that way. i've always felt confident. and every time we have sex now, i don't feel that same 'love' making. cause i love him, i gave him another chance, cause maybe he didn't know it would hurt me. and i said, one more time, and i'm gone. he knows your weak, and he's taking that advantage. your giving him one to many chances. leave him, if he comes begging back, make him work for it. let him crawl. yea its mean. but hurting your feelings is as well. i really don't wanna say much, cause i'm tearing, thinkin about this. here's a site i found... i didn't read it, cause i thought i'd be crying, and i thought i'd get mad at him again. which i don't want either to happen... so hopefully, you'll get more insight from it... let me know how things are working out http://www.drphil.com/advice/advice.jhtml?contentId=090302_relationships_internetporn.xml§ion=Relationships/Sex&subsection=Infidelity
Darkangelism Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Pixie you came in and said what you thought should happen, it is a very contaversial topic so people such as myself are going to disagree with you.
dyermaker Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 Originally posted by P1xie Porn is no different than not wanting someone to do the above. It seems with Porn everyone thinks that you should accept it but I'm sure if you thought about it there are things that you do not want in your life that someone else would say that you're trying to change the person. The thing is, you're not trying to eliminate it from your life, you're trying to eliminate it from his.
Author P1xie Posted March 3, 2004 Author Posted March 3, 2004 dyermaker I'm doing my best to do this. I'm not asking for a personality change here. I did not leave him we are working on the issue. I haven't given him the ultimatum that if I ever catch him again I'm going to leave him. You could also say the same for him he can accept me for me and work with me on the issue instead of breaking promises and lying.
moimeme Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 I'm sure if you thought about it there are things that you do not want in your life that someone else would say that you're trying to change the person Which is why I get to know a person well enough to know whether he has habits that would be a deal-breaker. And we discuss them. And he tells me whether or not it's something he feels like changing. And I would not ditch an otherwise good man for something like this. I think you are making this a symbol for whatever else is wrong in your relationship. Did you read Confused123s post? Read it again a whole bunch of times.
Darkangelism Posted March 3, 2004 Posted March 3, 2004 He knew you were hurt by it and if he told you the truth and say that he wasnt gonna stop how would you have taken it? He prolly thought it would hurt you less to lie.(i am not defending his actions)
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