Star Gazer Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 But you seem to think I have no free agency in this. If he didn't respect my boundaries I could always say, "no, that's not cool," and cut him off as a friend. I don't think you're strong enough to resist. You really like this guy. You've already had sex with him. You think if you're hanging out as friends, have had a glass or two of wine, and he looks you in the eye with sexy eyes and leans in to kiss you, that you'd resist? Don't lie to yourself. That's exactly what you want him to do. You want him to want you, and you'd give in. This is why a friendship with someone you're attracted to, have had sex with, p and until yesterday were dating, is not possible. P.S. I thought you weren't going to come back? A fourth name, really?
Author souvlaki Posted October 17, 2010 Author Posted October 17, 2010 Forgive the constant questions, it's the amateur psychologist in me But, why are you waiting to see what he proposes? Not to imply that you need to be bitchy and set in your ways. But you seem to be leaving the ball in his court as to what your relationship is and or isn't and where it's going or not. And I realize the scope of the forum you are only able to reveal but so much and emotions and and body language can throw a logical situation off, but still. You can empower yourself by honestly looking at him and what he has to offer (he plainly stated in email) and see if that is a fit for you. If it isn't, for whatever reason. Make a decision on how he will factor into YOUR life and then move on accordingly. You said you prefer group settings, don't HOPE he suggests that. TELL him. "Ok dude, I like you and we have so much in common, I'd hate to lose your friendship because of sex. How bout we see each other at team trivia/river rafting or whatever group outing is next on the schedule and take care till I see you again." It ends things on a positive, upbeat note. He knows when he sees you again you'll at least be friendly and who knows, as you focus on meeting the dude that's on the same page as you are relationship wise, he may take a second look at you and decide he's over his past and if you still like him, you can hook up then. Good luck to you! To clarify, I have no intentions of just going along with whatever he proposes. I do, however, want to see what he has in mind, because I am a bit suspicious of his intentions. If he proposes something sketchy, I will likely cut off the friendship entirely. I figure if I do decide on trying out the friends thing, we can get a dialogue going and figure a way of hanging out (probably in a group) that works for both of us....or not.
Jannah Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 What I'm conflicted about is his calm demeanor juxtaposed with his ' I'm still emotionally invested in my last girlfriend and the issues of that relationship.' He's talking about it, and how it affects his feelings and your dating interactions, like it's happening to someone else, but, hold it, he's also pursuing (or had pursued) you sexually. If he's so invested in his ex, why is he dating/having sex you? Oh, right, he *was* expecting this long period of solitude and gol darn it if you didn't mess up his plans by coming into his life when he was so vulnerable. Interesting how that works. Men are so confusing So, if you believe him, and you assert that he's not 'slimy' (not that I think booty calls are slimy, merely men and woman wanting to satisfy their sexual needs), then accept his kind invitations to 'hang out' and watch his actions support his words. Now that I think of it, that will be really good information. He could become a great friend, even if he's working through some difficult emotions right now, and perhaps you can reconnect romantically later down the road. My only warning would be to be aware of your attraction to him coloring your feelings about the friendship. BTDT. Time reveals all truths. I like this explanation, and I think carhill explained it quite beautifully.
Author souvlaki Posted October 17, 2010 Author Posted October 17, 2010 I approach this from the perspective of having a reputation here and in real life for being 'deep' and getting into 'serious' subjects too early, but can share that, in my most recent dating experiences, we were happily enjoying dinner, movies and shopping in that first month, without all the 'deep' stuff. I was asked questions about my marital status and what I wanted out of relationships and answered, topically, and then went on to the next interesting subject. The difference is those questions were asked and answered *in person*, which IMO makes a huge difference in perception. I'll also add that I'm separated, so 'it's complicated', right? No, it's not really, hence my comment. What I'm conflicted about is his calm demeanor juxtaposed with his ' I'm still emotionally invested in my last girlfriend and the issues of that relationship.' He's talking about it, and how it affects his feelings and your dating interactions, like it's happening to someone else, but, hold it, he's also pursuing (or had pursued) you sexually. If he's so invested in his ex, why is he dating/having sex you? Oh, right, he *was* expecting this long period of solitude and gol darn it if you didn't mess up his plans by coming into his life when he was so vulnerable. Interesting how that works. Men are so confusing I appreciate the time you've taken to give me advice, but you've lost me. What are the negative implications of deep discussion early on? I'm likewise confused by the double negatives in your next paragraph. What are you implying that might be of concern about his tone in the email or his intentions in general? Could you be a little more direct and elaborative in your response? Thanks!
Jannah Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 I appreciate the time you've taken to give me advice, but you've lost me. What are the negative implications of deep discussion early on? I'm likewise confused by the double negatives in your next paragraph. What are you implying that might be of concern about his tone in the email or his intentions in general? Could you be a little more direct and elaborative in your response? Thanks! It means, if he was still hung up on his ex, he should have been forthcoming before sleeping with you versus after. It's not a perfect world, and unfortunate that there are no guarantees with matters of the heart.
carhill Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 Could you be a little more direct and elaborative in your response? Thanks! I learned in MC that the healthiest and longest lived answers are those we discover and embrace ourselves. I hope my posts have been stimulating in that regard. Your path is uniquely your own. No one can walk it except you. We can show you our paths and share what we've discovered from our life experience, but any relevance to your life path is completely under your perceptive control. I hope you can remain friends and that his actions support his words. I also hope you open your mind and heart to other potentials. As a friend, I'm sure he will support this, as that's what friends do. Good luck
Author souvlaki Posted October 17, 2010 Author Posted October 17, 2010 Thanks for the advice everyone! I have decided to try the friends route whilst enforcing strong boundaries along the way. If he crosses those boundaries, he gets kicked to the curb. I sent him a short "sure, that should be ok". I intentionally left the nature of that friendship vague because it allows me more flexibility to decide as I see fit, or even back out should I change my mind later, without losing face. It's unclear whether a friendship is feasible, but time will tell. I'm proud of myself for my handling of this. In the past I've let guys string me along, hoping they would change their minds. No more.
xpaperxcutx Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 I don't think you're strong enough to resist. You really like this guy. You've already had sex with him. You think if you're hanging out as friends, have had a glass or two of wine, and he looks you in the eye with sexy eyes and leans in to kiss you, that you'd resist? Don't lie to yourself. That's exactly what you want him to do. You want him to want you, and you'd give in. This is why a friendship with someone you're attracted to, have had sex with, p and until yesterday were dating, is not possible. P.S. I thought you weren't going to come back? A fourth name, really?[/QUOTE] Since you brought it up S_G, I also noticed the similarity of the posts... Op, I hope you open up your eyes to your various contradictions. You already stated in previous posts that you are " aware" that men do not befriend people they've " screwed" so why on earth do you taking that step will garauntee you a lasting friendship? Either you're completely blind, naive, or both, I doubt you're actually doing anything to " save face". I sent him a short "sure, that should be ok". I intentionally left the nature of that friendship vague because it allows me more flexibility to decide as I see fit, or even back out should I change my mind later, without losing face. It's unclear whether a friendship is feasible, but time will tell. I'm proud of myself for my handling of this. In the past I've let guys string me along, hoping they would change their minds. No more. No, you're not allowing guys to string you along, you're willingly allowing yourself to be strung.
eerie_reverie Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 I dissent from the majority opinion on this one. I don't think it's unusual for ex-lovers to stay friends. Hell, I have some kind of history with half the guys I am friends with, and at this point (several years since said histories) my friendships are both solid and completely platonic. I don't think this guy necessarily wants to use OP. Maybe he just wants to stay on good terms as acquaintances, because he thinks she's a cool chick. What's wrong with that? Is this so unusual that you guys seriously have never run into this scenario in your lives? Because I have. That said, I think going into a friendship with an ulterior motive to get back together down the line, is manipulative, self-defeatist, and unhealthy. Only the OP can decide what her intentions are, but I, for one, don't believe that OP is really over this already and just wants to keep this guy as a buddy. Some exes can stay friends, but I don't know about these 2. However, I am positive she will bounce back.
carhill Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 OP, I don't know if it can help, but, having resolved a love affair to friendship within my own psyche, I made the important and healthy discovery that the person in question was not *my* friend, and it was my feelings, emotions and desires which drove the dynamic, unhealthily. Those factors colored my *perception* of the friendship and, once they were brought into healthy balance and I could see clearly, I was free. It's an amazing feeling. Your experience might differ and I offer this as one of many potential outcomes.
xpaperxcutx Posted October 17, 2010 Posted October 17, 2010 Some exes can stay friends, but I don't know about these 2. They never dated. They met and did the hanky panky. The more appropriate term would be sex partners. I do not know the intimate details of their " dynamic relationship" but given what the OP had presented, we are aware of a few things- He does not want to be with her [exclusively]Out of a relationship and is emotionally uninvestedwants to date other people (possibly sleeping with them as well)wants to hang out in a less romantic capacity (<--- notice ambiguity of said statement)Just these 4 statements alone stamped him as unavailable and emotionally uninterested. Yet the OP wants to use the proposal as a " manipulative" way to see where things go.
Author souvlaki Posted October 17, 2010 Author Posted October 17, 2010 They never dated. They met and did the hanky panky. The more appropriate term would be sex partners. I do not know the intimate details of their " dynamic relationship" but given what the OP had presented, we are aware of a few things- He does not want to be with her [exclusively]Out of a relationship and is emotionally uninvestedwants to date other people (possibly sleeping with them as well)wants to hang out in a less romantic capacity (<--- notice ambiguity of said statement)Just these 4 statements alone stamped him as unavailable and emotionally uninterested. Yet the OP wants to use the proposal as a " manipulative" way to see where things go. Actually we did date. Where did I ever say otherwise?? I think you guys are reading too much into this. I take his words at face value. I think he genuinely wants to be my friend, because he enjoys my company.
Author souvlaki Posted October 17, 2010 Author Posted October 17, 2010 I don't think you're strong enough to resist. You really like this guy. You've already had sex with him. You think if you're hanging out as friends, have had a glass or two of wine, and he looks you in the eye with sexy eyes and leans in to kiss you, that you'd resist? Don't lie to yourself. That's exactly what you want him to do. You want him to want you, and you'd give in. This is why a friendship with someone you're attracted to, have had sex with, p and until yesterday were dating, is not possible. P.S. I thought you weren't going to come back? A fourth name, really?[/QUOTE] Since you brought it up S_G, I also noticed the similarity of the posts... Op, I hope you open up your eyes to your various contradictions. You already stated in previous posts that you are " aware" that men do not befriend people they've " screwed" so why on earth do you taking that step will garauntee you a lasting friendship? Either you're completely blind, naive, or both, I doubt you're actually doing anything to " save face". No, you're not allowing guys to string you along, you're willingly allowing yourself to be strung. I'm not letting him string me along. I don't have to consent to anything I'm uncomfortable with. Stringing along would be me continuing to be physical with him while he dated other people. Hanging out with him in a group setting and being friendly is hardly being strung along. It's not a one fits size all for human behavior. Perhaps most guys wouldn't want to be friends with an ex lover. Doesn't mean it's true for all guys. He seems like a good guy. My intuition feels strongly that he's not deceiving me about wanting a platonic friendship, and if he is I can always cut him off. As eerie said, isn't it possible that yes, we have great conversations and enjoy each other's company, and he wants to stay friends with me for that reason? I think so.
Star Gazer Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 I don't think it's unusual for ex-lovers to stay friends. Hell, I have some kind of history with half the guys I am friends with, and at this point (several years since said histories) my friendships are both solid and completely platonic. Critical difference here. I agree that some ex's can truly be friends (I have them myself), but those friendships developed years later, well after any romantic feelings had died. That's not the case here at all.
Lucky555 Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 I give u credit for finding out what he wants. But if he was a true friend and cared he would have told u that he was getting over someone and found out what u wanted. But like most guys they leave it out to get laid. U have invested more feelings in him than he has u. I can only see you getting hurt. If I know it hurts to let go o someone you connect with but would you rather spend your time and energy with a guy who is availble? He knows u like him more it's pretty evident and I think he's keeping you around as a backup. Obviously the friendship changes when you have sex. I do think he doesn't really care about Anyones feelings because I though he was a dbag for emailing all that. Ya he was honest but about being friends? Really? I know it's hard to find people you click with and I bet your hoping he would change his mind. If you want the guy just stop responding. He will get the message that you have standards. I know when I fall for a guy I think keeping contact and caring will win him over but what men recognize is respect for yourself to not be used. Honey he used you and it sucks been there and I learned. I guess would rather see you spend your time with a quality guy who doesn't sleep around carelessly and wants to have a relationship to see where things go. In order to get what you want you have to get strength. It sucks to invest time and energy in someone that you click with and them haven't go nowhere I have been there and I still don't understand why it couldn't have gone anywhere. Somethings we just never know but u can make a choice before he breaks your heart again. I think he will try to make ammove again but not for the right reasons he will blame it on the wine. Wish u the best
Author souvlaki Posted October 19, 2010 Author Posted October 19, 2010 I hope I made the right choice. I miss him.
Mme. Chaucer Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 Sure. Your posting style, your "letters", and your personality/handling of this is remarkably identical. Even this: ?....... ------- But whatevs. Carry on. Absolutely. I recognized her in the first phrase of the original post. Dear not - very - mysterious OP; you've already shared the whole backstory about your involvement with this guy. Don't you think you'd get more useful advice if you'd let the participants in your threads connect ALL the dots? (including refraining from saying stuff like "we didn't have sex" and then "confessing" later that you indeed did the deed).
OceanGirl Posted October 19, 2010 Posted October 19, 2010 I love to eat soulvaki As for the thread, you absolutely did the right thing. Doing the right thing ain't easy but it will pay off in the long run.
Author souvlaki Posted October 20, 2010 Author Posted October 20, 2010 It's finally sinking in that it's over. I think I was in denial until tonight. Hopefully I'll move on fast, though, since it was such a short dating experience.
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