Deceived

[LuckyClover]

That was my biggest fear as well. Luckily they have coped well and accept it. They just go with the flow. I think what really helps is that I didn't hold a grudge(yes when it went down I said some pretty mean and nasty things), I accepted what I couldn't affect and focussed on what I could. My ex and I are friends(I made that decision) and we still make joint decisions regarding the kids. We will always be their mom and dad, nothing will change that. You can still show love and affection and not live together or be in a relationship, at least for the kid's sake. They won't understand but if nothing changes with regards to how the parents treat them, then they just live in different homes. Same rules, same traditions, same grandparents, etc... They will be okay. Just don't let her or you be vendictive towards each other, that is when the kids act out for attention. They feel left out and ignored, they will have their own pain to live through. I never had to go through that when I was growing up, my parents are still together, but my ex's parents split up when she was young and her mom cheated on her husband's twice. This is my greatest fear is that my kids will only have broken homes as their influence.. But like I said, I can only affect so much and that's what I will be foccused on. I hope to teach them that they can have long-lasting love and devotion - as long as they are forever willing to work through their problems with their significant other.(till death does them apart)

[Steadfast]

 

My greatest fear is that my 2 daughters will be damaged forever by us splitting up. Everything I read tells me it is not good. I always wanted them to grow up surrounded by a loving family. I'm so distraught over this.

 

 

Hold onto that. Focus on them and make that your priority. It may be hard to believe now, but they can benefit from this if you handle it properly. Life is full of disappointments and things don't always go as we planned. Show them the way out of it, show them how to handle it. And remember; if dad's a mess they will be too. That's the hardest part. You have bigger issues and challenges than trying to figure out some wacky female.

 

Do not waste your time, trouble or brain power on trying to figure her out, or wonder what it would take to get her back. The law of averages says that yes; at some point she's make a move back towards you. Especially if you pull away and stay away. The weak of character often want what they can't have. This won't happen overnight, but the sooner you get your head on right, the sooner you'll clear the funk. Your kids will be OK because you'll be OK. If you do the right thing. Right now, that's not enabling her.

 

Finally, I'm not really big on separating the whole 'EA' and "A" thing. To me, an affair is only a full blown deal breaker if it has become physical. But that's just me. Truth is, my wife checked out long before she started knocking boots with other guys. You've got bigger fish to fry. Let her go.

[iheartboobs]

An EA is still an A. Have you ever heard the saying "women want love, men want sex"? Well, it's true and what that means is that we have different ideas about what a full-blown affair is.

 

Most women can work through their partner having a purely physical affair (such as a one-night stand), but the thought of us connecting with another woman on an emotional level (love) is a deal-breaker for them. Alternatively, most men can put up with their partner having an EA much better than if they had a physical one (sex).

 

The point is: it would have been less of an act of betrayal from your wife's point of view if she'd just had some meaningless sex with this guy. The fact that she feels she connects with this man emotionally and "loves" him, or that he "gets her" makes this as much of an all-in affair in her eyes as if she'd actually slept with him would make it one in yours.

 

The majority of men will tell you that the M is salvagable as long as your wife never had a physical affair... but that's simply not true. As far as your wife is concerned, she's cheated. She's been with another man in her heart, and, to her, that's much more intimate than being with him in your bed.

[Steadfast]

 

The point is: it would have been less of an act of betrayal from your wife's point of view if she'd just had some meaningless sex with this guy.

 

 

Well, that's where we differ. I don't believe in meaningless sex. If it was important enough to my wife to withhold it from me, am I supposed to believe it's 'meaningless' if she engages in it with someone else? The truth is, sex means a lot. It's the physical, outgoing manifestation of our inner feelings. At the same time, I completely understand and agree that men are far more likely to have casual sex than women are. It's been said before many times and the numbers support; if a woman cheats, 99% of the time the marriage is over. There is a cold, calculated feel to it.

 

I maintain my position that an affair is an affair. The building of emotions and fostering a relationship is equal to writing the husband a goodbye letter. Having sex with the other man is licking the stamp and dropping it in the mailbox. Married women don't have casual sex, they have sex with men they've fallen in love with.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Steadfast

[iheartboobs]

I mean, I don't believe in "meaningless" sex, either... I'm just saying that if your wife had gone to a bar, gotten drunk, and had a quickie in the bathroom with a guy she never intended to see again (probably the epitome of "meaningless sex"), then that would have been less of a betrayal in her eyes than what she's done.

 

I'm just warning you not to look at this from a man's point of view. If we meet an old girlfriend, catch up, flirt, talk about what might have been, connect emotionally, want to be with the other girl, etc., but never get physical, we (or, at least, I) don't consider that cheating... women do.

 

So, for the average woman, what she did wasn't some "lesser" affair, or affair "lite", it's actually way more serious than the random drunk hook-up I detailed earlier even though most of us, as men, probably don't see it that way. Even if there is no sex, this is an affair to her... she cheated plain and simple.

[Steadfast]

Honestly? We're splitting hairs here. I appreciate the effort, but I have to say I don't give two sh*ts about what anyone considers is, or isn't an affair. Truth is, if one spouse is keeping anything from the other, it's lying and betrayal. This, of course, is because the lying spouse does not want to face the ramifications of their actions before they're 'ready'. This is the ultimate form of emotional abuse and -ultimately- is the hardest thing to overcome.

 

Besides, in this day and age of STDs, how many people are having quickies in the men's room of a bar? Too many people are worrying about effects and ignoring the cause. Women and men are different, but the pain is the same.

[Too Much]

Hold onto that. Focus on them and make that your priority. It may be hard to believe now, but they can benefit from this if you handle it properly. Life is full of disappointments and things don't always go as we planned. Show them the way out of it, show them how to handle it. And remember; if dad's a mess they will be too. That's the hardest part. You have bigger issues and challenges than trying to figure out some wacky female.

 

Do not waste your time, trouble or brain power on trying to figure her out, or wonder what it would take to get her back. The law of averages says that yes; at some point she's make a move back towards you. Especially if you pull away and stay away. The weak of character often want what they can't have. This won't happen overnight, but the sooner you get your head on right, the sooner you'll clear the funk. Your kids will be OK because you'll be OK. If you do the right thing. Right now, that's not enabling her.

 

Finally, I'm not really big on separating the whole 'EA' and "A" thing. To me, an affair is only a full blown deal breaker if it has become physical. But that's just me. Truth is, my wife checked out long before she started knocking boots with other guys. You've got bigger fish to fry. Let her go.

 

Thank you again for sharing, Steadfast. I really appreciate it. The struggle that I have is letting her go, on the one hand, and the suggeston of others that I may be "overreacting" to the whole thing based on an EA. At what point should one go to exhaust all efforts before throwing a way a 10 year marriage with 2 kids? The fact she has told me she wants a divorce and that there is no way to work it out...is that where I should draw the line? So confused, as I've always believed marriage was forever.

[2sunny]

I've never spoken to the guy. Not sure how I would apprach contacting his wife. You really think its a good idea?

 

no need to speak to the guy... talk directly to his W. she is entitled to understand your concerns... an A thrives on secrecy... take the secrecy away by telling the W and afterwards having an honest conversation with your W that tells her you know she isn't invested in the M any longer, are willing to set her free and have notified her MM's wife how they have been keeping in touch on an intimate level.

 

get all the players on the field, reveal the truth (for what you DO know) and let it play out knowing SHE caused this, not you.

[LisaLee]

no need to speak to the guy... talk directly to his W. she is entitled to understand your concerns... an A thrives on secrecy... take the secrecy away by telling the W and afterwards having an honest conversation with your W that tells her you know she isn't invested in the M any longer, are willing to set her free and have notified her MM's wife how they have been keeping in touch on an intimate level.

 

get all the players on the field, reveal the truth (for what you DO know) and let it play out knowing SHE caused this, not you.

 

Thank you, 2Sunny! I am glad I am not the only one who believes the MM's wife should know. The thing is the OP's wife spoke very powerfully about this MM. She said she wanted to OWN him, MIND, BODY, SOUL. I can't imagine some woman saying that about my man. Hell, even I don't say that about my man!

 

But if someone were writings such things about my husband... and he is in contact with her... then I would want to know. It sounds like the MM is clueless, but you never know.

 

When OP's wife divorces and she maintains contact with this guy... I just don't see her having any problem crossing that line. I think it's only fair that the wife knows so she can nip this in the bud and save any potential damage to her marriage.

 

BTW, one thing that has been consistent in this is that the OP's wife has had little to no reaction to all this. If he were to tell her that he told the MM's wife I'm sure he will get quite a reaction.

Edited October 28, 2010 by LisaLee

[tojaz]

I've never spoken to the guy. Not sure how I would apprach contacting his wife. You really think its a good idea?

 

No its not a good idea!!!! Why on earth would you approach him or his wife? Up to this point all you know for sure is that she has thought about him, thats it! This isn't an affair, or even an Emotional affair to the best of your knowledge. This is a school girl crush. What good is going to come from talking to him or his wife? I can imagine a lot of bad like potentialy damaging his marriage for a relationship he doesn't even know hes a part of! If simple thoughts constituted an affair, every one of us would be guilty of cheating, the only difference is those thoughts haven't been posted on a message board to be scrutinized by the betrayed. Keep your head in the game Too Much your battle is at home!!!!

 

 

Thank you again for sharing, Steadfast. I really appreciate it. The struggle that I have is letting her go, on the one hand, and the suggeston of others that I may be "overreacting" to the whole thing based on an EA. At what point should one go to exhaust all efforts before throwing a way a 10 year marriage with 2 kids? The fact she has told me she wants a divorce and that there is no way to work it out...is that where I should draw the line? So confused, as I've always believed marriage was forever.

 

Too Much, this one is simple. You go until YOU no longer want to be married to HER, or until she changes her last name. Its that simple. If these journal entries are enough for you to want out, then you've answered your own question. If your hearts still in it and you still want to be married to her, then be true to yourself and act accordingly. (See my sig!) Marriage is what YOU TWO make it, there is no magic line that you cross that kills it, thats a decision that you both make. You call it "throwing away" a 10 year marriage, You can't stop her from doing that, but if you still want it, then why would you throw it away?????????

 

TOJAZ

[Too Much]

No its not a good idea!!!! Why on earth would you approach him or his wife? Up to this point all you know for sure is that she has thought about him, thats it! This isn't an affair, or even an Emotional affair to the best of your knowledge. This is a school girl crush. What good is going to come from talking to him or his wife? I can imagine a lot of bad like potentialy damaging his marriage for a relationship he doesn't even know hes a part of! If simple thoughts constituted an affair, every one of us would be guilty of cheating, the only difference is those thoughts haven't been posted on a message board to be scrutinized by the betrayed. Keep your head in the game Too Much your battle is at home!!!!

 

 

 

 

Too Much, this one is simple. You go until YOU no longer want to be married to HER, or until she changes her last name. Its that simple. If these journal entries are enough for you to want out, then you've answered your own question. If your hearts still in it and you still want to be married to her, then be true to yourself and act accordingly. (See my sig!) Marriage is what YOU TWO make it, there is no magic line that you cross that kills it, thats a decision that you both make. You call it "throwing away" a 10 year marriage, You can't stop her from doing that, but if you still want it, then why would you throw it away?????????

 

TOJAZ

 

Tojaz, W says these are only thoughts she has written. However, keep in mind they have talked on the phone and by email and there is no telling what was actually said in those conversations. Of course she would deny she has told him anything. She may not want to hurt me. But why would she say she wants a divorce? Remember, she does not want to attempt to work this out. She says it is too late, there is nothing to work out. And how am I supposed to trust her? But if there was any way to save the marriage, I am all ears...

[tojaz]

Tojaz, W says these are only thoughts she has written. However, keep in mind they have talked on the phone and by email and there is no telling what was actually said in those conversations. Of course she would deny she has told him anything. She may not want to hurt me. But why would she say she wants a divorce? Remember, she does not want to attempt to work this out. She says it is too late, there is nothing to work out. And how am I supposed to trust her? But if there was any way to save the marriage, I am all ears...

 

 

Your right there is no telling what has been said or done, you have only what you see in front of you. Of all the women I have talked to on the phone and shared an Email with, I have slept with very few. Same with fantasies and thoughts. if I acted them all out I would be curled up on Jessica Albas doorstep right now. Keep your head out of the what ifs and focused on the what is.... a broken marriage that you want to repair.

 

To that end, of course she says shes done, its taken her a long time to get to that point shes going to remain resolute. Has she hired an attorney? Moved out? Dating? No, doesn't sound like it to me. A woman dedset on divorce moves very quickly, mine was gone in 2 weeks!

 

The first step to trying to save it (and also to healing if it is the end) is to embrace what she is seeing as flaws, explore them and see what you can do about it. What got her to this point. This HS crush has very little to do with it, believe me. Dig into the nuts and bolts of whats not working.

 

Oh, by the way, on trust. Your mistrust of her is in your head, looking back i think you will agree that she has been quite honest with you about her thoughts and feelings. Dont let the stories of the betrayed put the monster under the bed for you, sometimes it is just as it seems.

 

keep posting friend, and keep talking to your wife. Rather then looking for what she may have done wrong, show her you trust her and want to work things out, may just give her cause to look at herself in another light.

 

TOJAZ

[2sunny]

Tojaz, W says these are only thoughts she has written. However, keep in mind they have talked on the phone and by email and there is no telling what was actually said in those conversations. Of course she would deny she has told him anything. She may not want to hurt me. But why would she say she wants a divorce? Remember, she does not want to attempt to work this out. She says it is too late, there is nothing to work out. And how am I supposed to trust her? But if there was any way to save the marriage, I am all ears...

 

there's no trust when she's putting her mental and emotional energy into another man = that IS cheating... because she's giving that to someone outside the M when it should be invested into the M.

 

what to do? make her VERY uncomfortable. she won't be motivated to change until you pull the rug out from underneath her pretty little fantasy.

 

make her move out now! send her away with no money. she will find out really quickly just what a mess she's made of her life. SHE created this and is unwilling to let go of it = so she should pay the consequences. if she has no consequences - she won't change at all. start invoking some really big changes that show her that you deserve better than what she's been dishing out.

 

make it happen now. to wait shows her that you will just sit by idly and take more of her crappy behavior... that's not productive.

[goingstrong]

Too much, don't jump the gun with the OM's wife. You need more info before you proceed with some type of showdown. If you go in there with the proof you have, then they will make you look like a fool, and your wife will browbeat you with it.Do what the other posters say with the keylogger, cell phone spying etc...., figure out the extent of the EA, and if it has proceeded into the physical zone.

 

If you read all of the slow motion train wrecks on this forum, by the time the BS has wised up they initially find just the tip of the iceberg, and then start digging to find the rest.

Edited October 29, 2010 by goingstrong

[trippi1432]

Too Much - I think that Tojaz and Going Strong have made some very good points to the direction you need to take to work on the marriage and try to either salvage something or at least put an effort into making it work. The easy road would be to entertain the panic at this point that you feel. Slow, calm and steady is where you need to be right now.

 

To be honest, what I tend to see here is that the two of you work in a business together where you are constantly around each other, home and work, if there is no separation of those two entities in your marriage, it can make things hard on both of you. Have you thought about the fact that your wife is really entertaining a fantasy because she wants that same feeling with you? Sometimes it's easier to focus on what you can't have than what you want but aren't getting in a relationship. For some, communication is that hard with their husbands or wives...sometimes due to feeling that they can't communicate it well or fear of how the spouse will react.

 

I know that a lot of conversations stem on an EA being an affair, but an EA does not mean "she is gone". I think your wife is in an EA in her head, not her heart or she would have already been talking to a lawyer and making arrangements to move out. If you force that position, then you will most likely be moving to a divorce as it could shut the door on discussions to work anything out.

 

One thing I learned from spending (too much money) on a Divorce Busting coach is that one person can work on saving a marriage if they do it right. And to do that, it's much easier if you are both under the same roof so you can work on it together. If she asks you again what your intentions are, defer discussing divorce or separation of any kind.

 

While I cannot post a link on LS and you aren't able to get private messages until your post count gets higher, you can find some very good info doing a search on Divorce Busting. I do not advocate paying for their services, but they offer good articles into some of the answers you have been seeking.

 

As for my situation and experience, my ex was involved with a MW who reciprocated his feelings, it quickly moved to a physical affair...so far, nothing has proven that your wife is to that stage yet or that the MM has entertained her thoughts (only assumptions). Saving your marriage isn't as easy as just agreeing that you will not get divorced...it takes work, every day.

[Too Much]

Too Much - I think that Tojaz and Going Strong have made some very good points to the direction you need to take to work on the marriage and try to either salvage something or at least put an effort into making it work. The easy road would be to entertain the panic at this point that you feel. Slow, calm and steady is where you need to be right now.

 

To be honest, what I tend to see here is that the two of you work in a business together where you are constantly around each other, home and work, if there is no separation of those two entities in your marriage, it can make things hard on both of you. Have you thought about the fact that your wife is really entertaining a fantasy because she wants that same feeling with you? Sometimes it's easier to focus on what you can't have than what you want but aren't getting in a relationship. For some, communication is that hard with their husbands or wives...sometimes due to feeling that they can't communicate it well or fear of how the spouse will react.

 

I know that a lot of conversations stem on an EA being an affair, but an EA does not mean "she is gone". I think your wife is in an EA in her head, not her heart or she would have already been talking to a lawyer and making arrangements to move out. If you force that position, then you will most likely be moving to a divorce as it could shut the door on discussions to work anything out.

 

One thing I learned from spending (too much money) on a Divorce Busting coach is that one person can work on saving a marriage if they do it right. And to do that, it's much easier if you are both under the same roof so you can work on it together. If she asks you again what your intentions are, defer discussing divorce or separation of any kind.

 

While I cannot post a link on LS and you aren't able to get private messages until your post count gets higher, you can find some very good info doing a search on Divorce Busting. I do not advocate paying for their services, but they offer good articles into some of the answers you have been seeking.

 

As for my situation and experience, my ex was involved with a MW who reciprocated his feelings, it quickly moved to a physical affair...so far, nothing has proven that your wife is to that stage yet or that the MM has entertained her thoughts (only assumptions). Saving your marriage isn't as easy as just agreeing that you will not get divorced...it takes work, every day.

 

Thank you, Trippui so much for your thoughts. Really making me think...

[tojaz]

While I cannot post a link on LS and you aren't able to get private messages until your post count gets higher, you can find some very good info doing a search on Divorce Busting.

 

Damn the torpedoes good information is good information. http://www.divorcebusting.com/

 

TOJAZ

[You Go Girl]

TooMuch,

 

I just found this thread after you posted on mine.

 

So how are things going?

 

I have a few comments. Your W writing about an old bf from fantasy in her diary is the female equivalent of porn. There isn't a shred of reality in it. Oh sure, he was talking to her on the phone, taking it further than he should have as a married man and a new father. But I'm willing to bet he never had any intention of doing anything, besides of course, possibly having sex with your W, and that's assuming he has the slightest idea of her romantic fantasies.

Read what Tojaz wrote you...he's right on the mark.

 

So is there no communication as to what wasn't working in your marriage? Do you know what her complaints were now?

[The-Zen-Warrior]

keep in mind they have talked on the phone and by email and there is no telling what was actually said in those conversations.

 

The only thing I have to say, is that it appears that we are entertaining the notion of throwing it all away, based solely on "speculation" and "over active imagination" and "paranoia"!

 

You have no clue as to the words that were spoken during their conversations, but you want to speculate and suspect that she indeed do what it is that you think she has done!

 

To me, collectively, from pages #1 to #5 here, in the legal world, there wouldn't even be enough information here to file a Military Police dog bite report, needless to say divorce paperwork. I should know, as an M.P. I had to write up two dog bite reports, a lot more "factual" and "proven" facts went into those reports, than anything from you that I've seen here!

 

Until you have something solid, proven, factual, non-speculative, non-paranoia, non-imaginative, non-preconceived notions, until you have the hard evidence in your hand that "she talked inappropriately", I would just cool your jets!

[tojaz]

TooMuch, I would hate to speculate too much here, but reading all the stories here, you pick up on a few things, trends I guess.

 

Many times on either side of the D there comes a point where it truly is too much. There are too many questions, too many emotions, too much work to be done. One of the things I have seen a lot of is that one party or another seeks to "kill" it. That is to find some heinous charge that officially makes the marriage unrecoverable. It can be either side not just a WAS.

 

It makes it easier, because there is a reason and a catalyst for the actions they take. A lot of times these things are either blown way out of proportion or even at times completely fabricated.

 

Saw it in my own D with my ex. When honest conversation proved it wasn't going her way the subject shifted from her thoughts and doubts to my list of "Charges" and that was everything from sabotaging her career to being on a grassy knoll with a rifle over a decade before I was born!

 

The more I read your thread and see you focused on her "affair" like a laser, it makes me wonder if that is not the case here and you have found plenty of support for that. There are those here that would call brushing elbows on an elevator cheating.

 

Its not place to tell you what it is or what it isn't, I wouldn't know anyway. I will tell you that there are much bigger issues at hand then the thoughts of her old flame, and those are what need your attention. The path your thinking along now is just going to help the both of you drive the other farther apart. In essence your suspicions, mistrust, and speculation ARE the wedge between you right now.

 

TOJAZ

[Too Much]

TooMuch,

 

I just found this thread after you posted on mine.

 

So how are things going?

 

I have a few comments. Your W writing about an old bf from fantasy in her diary is the female equivalent of porn. There isn't a shred of reality in it. Oh sure, he was talking to her on the phone, taking it further than he should have as a married man and a new father. But I'm willing to bet he never had any intention of doing anything, besides of course, possibly having sex with your W, and that's assuming he has the slightest idea of her romantic fantasies.

Read what Tojaz wrote you...he's right on the mark.

 

So is there no communication as to what wasn't working in your marriage? Do you know what her complaints were now?

 

YGG, thanks for taking the time to read my thread. I've found your posts and thread to be helpful and telling in much of what I'm going through. I've taken the advice of many of the posters on this thread to try to talk things thru to see if there is some glimmer of hope to save this marriage. As I posted (I think) we last talked 2 weeks ago. I asked her directly what she wanted. She told me the marriage could not be saved and that she wanted me to proceed with filing for divorce. I showed her an article I had that suggested MC. She told me she did not believe MC would work at this time and that it was "too late". Keep in mind, although I told her we were done when I found the diary entries (the one where she said she wanted to divorce me), it was (and has been) her that is pushing the issue of divorce. I told her my mind wasn't as clear and that I was still considering all options. That's when she said it was "too late". One week later, I received a call from a "counselor" looking to speak to her. The "counselor" said he had been referred to her by a "friend". Since then, it has been all NC.

 

The only thing I have to say, is that it appears that we are entertaining the notion of throwing it all away, based solely on "speculation" and "over active imagination" and "paranoia"!

 

You have no clue as to the words that were spoken during their conversations, but you want to speculate and suspect that she indeed do what it is that you think she has done!

 

To me, collectively, from pages #1 to #5 here, in the legal world, there wouldn't even be enough information here to file a Military Police dog bite report, needless to say divorce paperwork. I should know, as an M.P. I had to write up two dog bite reports, a lot more "factual" and "proven" facts went into those reports, than anything from you that I've seen here!

 

Until you have something solid, proven, factual, non-speculative, non-paranoia, non-imaginative, non-preconceived notions, until you have the hard evidence in your hand that "she talked inappropriately", I would just cool your jets!

 

ZEN, you're right. I'm not avoiding any blame. I've said repeatedly your posts and others have made me think twice. Now, it is not me who wants the divorce. It is her. She has been reading self help books aimed at helping her find her true self and books on how to interview and find a job. She seems to be set in her direction. I have no control at this point.

 

TooMuch, I would hate to speculate too much here, but reading all the stories here, you pick up on a few things, trends I guess.

 

Many times on either side of the D there comes a point where it truly is too much. There are too many questions, too many emotions, too much work to be done. One of the things I have seen a lot of is that one party or another seeks to "kill" it. That is to find some heinous charge that officially makes the marriage unrecoverable. It can be either side not just a WAS.

 

It makes it easier, because there is a reason and a catalyst for the actions they take. A lot of times these things are either blown way out of proportion or even at times completely fabricated.

 

Saw it in my own D with my ex. When honest conversation proved it wasn't going her way the subject shifted from her thoughts and doubts to my list of "Charges" and that was everything from sabotaging her career to being on a grassy knoll with a rifle over a decade before I was born!

 

The more I read your thread and see you focused on her "affair" like a laser, it makes me wonder if that is not the case here and you have found plenty of support for that. There are those here that would call brushing elbows on an elevator cheating.

 

Its not place to tell you what it is or what it isn't, I wouldn't know anyway. I will tell you that there are much bigger issues at hand then the thoughts of her old flame, and those are what need your attention. The path your thinking along now is just going to help the both of you drive the other farther apart. In essence your suspicions, mistrust, and speculation ARE the wedge between you right now.

 

TOJAZ

 

TOJAZ, thanks again, and your points are well taken. I would like to work on talking with her to find the root of the problem. She is not willing at this time (perhaps never). Since we had a period of NC last year, she has continued her thinking from that time and has concluded she wants a divorce. Suddenly, she is exercising vigorously everyday and pouring herself into her search for a new career. we are not talking (except when necessary for the business or kids) and the home is very unpleasant. How can I heed your advice and communicate when she just doesn't want to?

[trippi1432]

Since we had a period of NC last year, she has continued her thinking from that time and has concluded she wants a divorce. Suddenly, she is exercising vigorously everyday and pouring herself into her search for a new career. we are not talking (except when necessary for the business or kids) and the home is very unpleasant. How can I heed your advice and communicate when she just doesn't want to?

 

Hi Too Much - It may be something that you don't want to discuss at this point, but I've noticed that you have spoken to the non communication a year ago a few times now. If you don't mind my asking, what spurred the non-communication on last year? As you stated above, she has continued her thinking from that time......

[GorillaTheater]

As I posted (I think) we last talked 2 weeks ago. I asked her directly what she wanted. She told me the marriage could not be saved and that she wanted me to proceed with filing for divorce.

 

Perhaps a more "nuclear" response than you'd welcome, but my advice is to take her at her word and file. You're in limbo now, and you'll only get out of limbo by taking action.

[dreamingoftigers]

OMG!

 

This is so not dead and over unless you let it be.

 

My husband and I had this conversation so many times. (different circumstances, I did not have an EA)

 

I truly wish that you could take a step back from this and see the forest instead of the stupid fantasy-journal trees!

 

When my marriage has sucked (and oh has it sucked!) somehow instinctually I develop a minor attraction to whatever male is close in proximity (not proud of this, but thought this may help). This past year during times of high duress I developed attractions for: the 19 year old that lived in the basement who has a stutter and could never pay his utility bill, the brother-in-law that lived in my next door neighbours basement who has eyebrows like a neanderthal and could never hold down a job and quit drinking, the Hoarder whose house we cleaned out who ended up moving to Australia. There was mutual attraction on that last one.

 

Now NONE OF THESE DID I EVER ACT ON. They were ridiculous, every single one of them! In fact the last one I made damn sure that I limited my contact with him. As well, it was so obvious that my husband actually noticed it (very embarassing) asked me about it, and we discussed it.

 

I have always been dedicated to fixing our relationship but when it got too rough, instinct kicked in looking for the way out. That doesn't mean I was EVER going to follow it. EVER. It sounds like your wife was trying to articulate the feelings she has and wants to have in a relationship. Since your relationship appears to be a source of pain for her, she outsourced it. Not directly. Not through EA (I'll bet you a lifetime supply of Snicker's bars that the idiot ex doesn't even know she has those feeling for him) and PA, but through journalling it, which is actually probably stinking healthy given the circumstances.

 

I also started to miss my ex, a lot in fact. Until.... I realized that he wasn't what I was looking for either, I did feel like we really knew each other etc. but what I was missing was the feeling of connectedness that came when he and I were in a strong relationship. That died because I was emotionally screwed-up and he was a conflict-avoidant liar. It wasn't lasting or real. Do you really think your wife's high school ex has anything that can stack up against your 18 years of history?

 

I know it hurts, like hell in fact. I know what that is like seeing your partner write to others what you have always wanted to hear. But that does not mean game over. It means you are out in the woods without a compass.

 

Why should you take responsibility for getting the damn marriage back on track? Because you've got kids and a family. Marriage is not a protection against stupid. Stupid of her to go toying around with those feelings, but if the relationship was pretty cloudy then it would have been the next-door neighbour or the box boy at Walmart. We see it here on loveshack all the time. Chances are that if the high-school ex heard about her wanting his mind, body and soul that he would be like "wtf, I am married, just had a baby and I haven't seen u in 20 years, you are a psycho! If he has half of a brain anyways.

 

So why you? Because you are the only one there that has enough of a brain to figure out that it is temporary bs compared to 18 years of marriage. It is like having one spouse leave the milk out on the counter and the other one say "why should I have to put it away?" Well no you shouldn't, but it is just going to go bad and spoil and stink up the whole damn house if you don't. Imagine what one container of milk left out will be like compared with the breakup of a marriage. And yes, your kids will have issues over it, I am floored when people act like everything is fine after. My niece went through hell over her parents divorce and they were about as amicable as possible about it. Spend the 6 months to a year making your home a happy one, spend that time making yourself a happy, emotionally healthy husband.

 

I stayed at first for my daughter and I don't regret it for one second.

 

I would point-blank say to this woman: "You know what, I know that you have these feelings, it sucks to hear that. But I know that I am going to be a happy healthy partner in the next six months to a year and that we have one hell of a history. I am going to do "x," "y" and "z." (One of these should be independent and/or marital counseling). And you know what, I am going to screw up, I am going to forget sometimes, but I am going to get x, y & z done so that we can have a happy marriage. If you don't want that, that is fine, but I am going to do x, y and z anyways. If you want to go, you can go. But I am going to stay and make this as happy as possible. You can help if you want." Say that your boundary is no more contact with the ex. If she wants to keep contacting him, she has to leave the marital home. That's it, that's all.

 

She wants to be happy, why would anyone leave a happy home? you don't trust her, I get that, trust can be rebuilt though. Usually when these things happen both partners don't trust each other. Usually the one looking towards the outside does not trust that the other one will even make an attempt to meet their emotional needs. Sounds like she could use some time off from the family business.

 

You lay out the terms and describe what you are going to do to help things, if you need some help figuring out what it is you should be doing, go to a counselor.

 

Take it from someone who has been through hell and high-water to save their marriage, you can recover it, and it can feel pretty damn good, even if you married an idiot. Yes there was infidelity in my marriage and not on my part. Take pride in your marriage and be able to say if it fails that when the going got rough you didn't just let it fall to pieces: You grabbed some balls and made damn sure this thing was finished before you walked away.

 

Good luck friend. You got a raw deal but this looks far from over. If she wants the marriage over, let it be her damn problem.

[trippi1432]

I would have to say that if all divorces were initiated over a look, a glance or a fantasy...there would be no marriage at all....if women divorced men just because they looked at a pretty woman but didn't act on it...WOW!!