welikeincrowds Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I literally laughed out loud when I read your planned replies, and the rest of the thread. I agree, stop saying "lol". But really, stop hating women. This is why you're failing, and will continue to fail, save for some fluke. You don't care about these girls at all. I don't think you'll disagree. You're treating OKCupid like a meat market and your first instinct with every reply is to "take them down a notch". You have the luxury of seeing what people have to write about themselves before you even speak to them. Does not one interest you? Don't you want to relate to someone else in the world, to the person who will be lying naked beside you in your bed? For the record, "players" are so called because they make women feel genuinely appreciated when they are not. Not that I think you should be a player. It seems you might like to, but you're disingenuous in a different way. Players conceal that they have no intention of commitment, of any kind. You reveal that although you are "dating," you may as well not be, because you have no interest in being with women.
dispatch3d Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I mean, he's talking about tattoo's but doesnt have any. Not exactly the best angle to play but whatever! ;-). hate on me all you want. I kinda enjoy it. I just wish you guys had a little more substance than "oh that wont' work!"
USMCHokie Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I mean, he's talking about tattoo's but doesnt have any. Not exactly the best angle to play but whatever! ;-). hate on me all you want. I kinda enjoy it. I just wish you guys had a little more substance than "oh that wont' work!" I agree, and it'd be a lot easier for me to play the angle and talk about the common interest of tattoos. I would have worded it a bit differently, that's all; but only because I don't actually talk or write like that. Hence the term, "meh"... :laugh:
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 You must be one tough chick to put up with the pins and pain (was there blood?!). He'd still sound wimpy in saying that... I wouldn't respond either. *Shrug*
sanskrit Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 But really, stop hating women. This is why you're failing, and will continue to fail, save for some fluke. You don't care about these girls at all. I don't think you'll disagree. You're treating OKCupid like a meat market and your first instinct with every reply is to "take them down a notch". "Hating women" He certainly shouldn't "care about" these strangers at this point other than being over the top rude or insulting, nor do they "care about" him. Also, it -is- a meat market until two people actually meet in person, and then it's just traditional dating. As far as "taking them down a notch," OP is still learning. Teasing women online, when done correctly, is very potent, as every other guy on the site is deluging them with "You're hot, you have a pretty smile, you have pretty eyes, you have pretty teeth, I like your pictures, oh did I mention that you're hot?" OP, consider responding, "If I can guess where you got your tattoo, will you give me your phone number?" If she responds "yes," as you already know, she got the tattoo on her ankle.
bayouboi Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 "lol" at the poster that said 'be yourself but don't do this...' While I agree with the majority that his response about 'crying like a girl' etc. seems very emasculating and it's apparent that this response wouldn't work on several of the women that have posted here, I think that it's important that the OP NOT seek validation from us and that he DO reply however his heart feels. Stargazer, you're right, his response wouldn't work for you because you two likely wouldn't fit together. Nah mean? In fact, I'd argue this guy will probably get rejected by the majority of women if he comes across this way. BUT! all it takes is the one match that DOES work for him, and if he pretends to be what you guys like, he won't be able to pull it off in the long-term because it isn't who he is.
Philetus Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I'd find something else to comment on. There must be something else you like about her? Something in her profile that you respond to? Share a common interest? I agree. No lols, no smiley faces. Keep it light and fun but not sarcastic and don't use any self-deprecating humour. I'd respond briefly about the tattoo, "What do you have on your ankle?" And talk about something else. I also think her response is pretty close to a brush off, it's pretty lukewarm. A lot of people online respond like this and when you follow up, they don't. Good luck.
theBrokenMuse Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Yeahhh... Let us know how THAT response works out for you. Yeah please do because honestly, I thought it was gawd awful but who knows, maybe she'll go for things that sound really contrived. After all she is still quite young and her profile doesn't exactly scream "I have a whole lot of depth".
flying Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 From the messages you relay here, it sounds like you say things such as: "Oh you like to be social huh? Then why don't you have any people in your pictures? I bet you have no friends lol." OK, this made me lol.
dispatch3d Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 It's pretty easy to be critical and condescending but he's more looking for ways to talk to girls online at the start, or things to say. I can understand his point of view, where if we just shoot down every single idea he gives then obviously he isn't going to like to give ideas (people just call him emasculine right? ) I agree the pain and blood thing isn't good. It should probably read more like "Easy there tough guy, how's that biker gang treating you?" Idk, I'm finding it hard to give compliments without doing the "cockyfunny" stuff david d says. I guess it's mostly because I want to take a step back after giving her a positive. The other part of the problem is everyone assumes they are an expert at these things. It's part of their own self belief they are good with women/men. Hence the (real) reason for so much negativity towards the underground player stuff. edit: not since i know i'll take heat, the next comment i wrote was probably even worse haha!
flying Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Idk, I'm finding it hard to give compliments without doing the "cockyfunny" stuff david d says. I guess it's mostly because I want to take a step back after giving her a positive. I guess the thing about the cockyfunny stuff, to me, is that people really get caught up in the powerplay aspect of it - say something nice, then take it away to maintain control - rather than just trying to figure out whether there's a connection with the other person. It's dehumanizing, on some level. I won't deny that that probably works on many people. But it's off-putting to many others. That's life. I agree that with someone I don't even know I don't want them to be all effusive all over me - that comes off as insincere, because you don't know me. But for the same reason, you shouldn't insult me either. There's a middle ground, which involves taking note of what little you know and forging a connection of sorts: Tell a story about your own tats, why you got them, what you like about them, what they say about you, why you like other people who have tats, you're interested in why she got them, etc. You can be amusing and breezy in those stories - but those stories are not about either over-complimenting or over-insulting a stranger. They're about saying who you are. I think when people get caught up in the compliment/insult cycle, they really miss the point.
Andy_K Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 BUT! all it takes is the one match that DOES work for him, and if he pretends to be what you guys like, he won't be able to pull it off in the long-term because it isn't who he is. IIRC from his other posts, I gather OP is not looking for the one, but instead attempting to find a way to nail as many young ladies as possible with the minimum of hassle. As such, he wants to send responses which will have a better success rate, rather than ones which are more congruent with his personality. Pulling it off long-term therefore becomes irrelevant.
bayouboi Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 IIRC from his other posts, I gather OP is not looking for the one, but instead attempting to find a way to nail as many young ladies as possible with the minimum of hassle. As such, he wants to send responses which will have a better success rate, rather than ones which are more congruent with his personality. Pulling it off long-term therefore becomes irrelevant. Ah I see. Well if that's the case, then yeah I think he's doing it wrong and most of the advice given that he's coming across as a wuss is spot on.
dispatch3d Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I guess the thing about the cockyfunny stuff, to me, is that people really get caught up in the powerplay aspect of it - say something nice, then take it away to maintain control - rather than just trying to figure out whether there's a connection with the other person. It's dehumanizing, on some level. I won't deny that that probably works on many people. But it's off-putting to many others. That's life. I agree that with someone I don't even know I don't want them to be all effusive all over me - that comes off as insincere, because you don't know me. But for the same reason, you shouldn't insult me either. There's a middle ground, which involves taking note of what little you know and forging a connection of sorts: Tell a story about your own tats, why you got them, what you like about them, what they say about you, why you like other people who have tats, you're interested in why she got them, etc. You can be amusing and breezy in those stories - but those stories are not about either over-complimenting or over-insulting a stranger. They're about saying who you are. I think when people get caught up in the compliment/insult cycle, they really miss the point. Your projecting your beliefs on why they structure their compliments as they do. It has nothing to do with power, some sort of control play, or whatever. The problem with saying things like "You are really nice" or "You are the coolest person I ever met" is that it can come off insincere. It also seems like you're looking up to the person/idolizing them. It's hard to explain. Think of how you feel if someone gives you a very big compliment? There's actually some uncomfortableness at the end. The other comment (NOT AN INSULT!) is meant ONLY to alleviate this uncomfortableness. That's it's purpose, that's it. If it's insulting you're ****ing it up. Futhermore, and in line with this concept, not all compliments have to be followed by some slightly negative thing (negative sequiters I think it's called). You're the nicest person I ever met. Too bad we could never get along. I've always wanted to become a cook like you. Sigh, if only your hair wasn't blonde! I love brunettes! All stuff that is easily changible and silly. But it keeps the compliment from being over the top. The cocky funny stuff works on a different level. Likely doesn't translate well to online....
flying Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Your projecting your beliefs on why they structure their compliments as they do. It has nothing to do with power, some sort of control play, or whatever. The problem with saying things like "You are really nice" or "You are the coolest person I ever met" is that it can come off insincere. It also seems like you're looking up to the person/idolizing them. It's hard to explain. Think of how you feel if someone gives you a very big compliment? There's actually some uncomfortableness at the end. The other comment (NOT AN INSULT!) is meant ONLY to alleviate this uncomfortableness. That's it's purpose, that's it. If it's insulting you're ****ing it up. Futhermore, and in line with this concept, not all compliments have to be followed by some slightly negative thing (negative sequiters I think it's called). Well, that's what I said: Too effusive a compliment when I don't know someone comes off as insincere. But my point is, so does an insult. Both of them scream "trying too hard." I really don't think I'm projecting when I say the cockyfunny (and negging) thing is about control. I think that's honestly the point of it all. I have seen many discussions about this on PUA forums, in which they admit that the point is to playfully show disinterest. There is no reason to do that unless you're trying to gain the upper hand. That is also the point of the whole interest level schema - it's all about maintaining the upper hand: You ARE interested, but you're pretending NOT to be. Instead, you're trying to get HER to be MORE interested than YOU appear to be, so as to maintain power over the situation. That's it. Boil it down to its essence, and that is really what PUA is all about. I'm not saying that with rancor; I think that even its creators would admit this. Edited October 15, 2010 by flying
theBrokenMuse Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 The other comment (NOT AN INSULT!) is meant ONLY to alleviate this uncomfortableness. That's it's purpose, that's it. If it's insulting you're ****ing it up. IMO, the person who uses this technique has to have a good grasp of how to structure this sort of thing properly or else it's far too easy to fall into backhanded compliment or passive aggressive territory.
dispatch3d Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Well, that's what I said: Too effusive a compliment when I don't know someone comes off as insincere. But my point is, so does an insult. Both of them scream "trying too hard." I really don't think I'm projecting when I say the cockyfunny (and negging) thing is about control. I think that's honestly the point of it all. I have seen many discussions about this on PUA forums, in which they admit that the point is to playfully show disinterest. There is no reason to do that unless you're trying to gain the upper hand. That is also the point of the whole interest level schema - it's all about maintaining the upper hand: You ARE interested, but you're pretending NOT to be. Instead, you're trying to get HER to be MORE interested than YOU appear to be, so as to maintain power over the situation. That's it. Boil it down to its essence, and that is really what PUA is all about. I'm not saying that with rancor; I think that even its creators would admit this. I couldn't agree more with both insults and over-reaching compliments trying too hard. Both should really be avoided. However, if you do make a big compliment and follow it with a non-sequiter negative statement, then you can make bigger and bolder compliments than if you simply say something like, "your good at writing". Which is kinda meh. Dunno if it'll give you that warm tingly feeling, ya know? Grouping negs and cockyfunny in the same category is kinda like saying lambs and wolves are both evil animals. They do two seperate things. Wolves are also kinda bastards (ie. they are the negs!). I don't use negs. >2 negs on one girl is likely wayyyyy too many. Negs are used in contexts where your value is 0 and the girls value is assumed very high (this means bars, nightclubs, etc.). They are used on girls who will not respond to anything. They are being cold, short, looking away constantly, etc. It's hard to describe if you aren't a guy attempting to talk to one of these girls, but I can tell you it's like pulling teeth. My current strategy is to buy beer and talk to fun people. However, doing things that conveys you are not interested or looking right now may let the girl let her gaurd down and actually talk to you. I'd say 90% of guys who attempt them likely just insult the girl, and get beer poured on them. Cocky-funny is used to amp attraction and you can do it as much as you ****ing feel like. Saying it should be used here or there is kinda odd. Sometimes it shouldn't be used (like when her pants are off!), but most of the time it's fine. It's like going to the amusement park and wondering how often you should go on the tilt-a-whirl. As long as you are having fun, ride the ****ing tilt-a-whirl. There's nothing about power in either of those situations. Negs are used to get the girl to open up and actually have a fun conversation. If you don't take that route you may as well go find someone fun, buy beer, play beer pong, learn how to fly a kite, doesn't ****ing matter. Cocky funny amps attraction, and is essentially flirting for dummies.
flying Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) There's nothing about power in either of those situations. Negs are used to get the girl to open up and actually have a fun conversation. If you don't take that route you may as well go find someone fun, buy beer, play beer pong, learn how to fly a kite, doesn't ****ing matter. Cocky funny amps attraction, and is essentially flirting for dummies. I really do think it's about power and control...and so does David DeAngelo. Here's a quote from him, explaining cockyfunny (bolding is mine): "So, here's how this works: think about "busting her chops"; that is, challenging her and calling her on every detail. For example, you and she start talking, you attitude should be that you control the situation - not her. You can say things to her like, "Yeah, you're cute, but I'm used to dating much younger women", or "Gee, what an interesting color for a dress". The point here is that you're not complimenting her, you're challenging her." See? He says it himself. Seriously...that is what PUA is. Trying to establish control. I'm really not saying this with rancor, I'm just calling it for what it is. Maybe younger women aren't going to see it for that. I'm not sure it would have worked on a younger version of me, either - frankly, his "challenges" are pretty unpleasant and still sound like negging to me - but at this point (in my 30s) I'm definitely old enough to be put off by it. I've had enough of power struggles. I'd prefer that someone just talk to me. Anyway, I apologize to the OP, for taking this off-topic. My advice remains the same, however: If you can't say something that doesn't venture into insult territory, just don't even go there. Establish common interest and try to sound interesting yourself. Edited October 15, 2010 by flying
sagetalk Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 "I bet you cried like a baby when you got that (Don't be embarrassed, so would I lol) And mention about some of tattoos-ideas I've drawn and want to get. Her response is weak, she didn't ask "So do you have any tatoo's?". That would be a great sign. Try to get her number, if she won't give it, keep going. If you're ripped and an entertainer type personality, take your shirt off and put that picture online. Take another picture of you doing something crazy. In your profile say two or three goofy things that contradict (I like girls that are shy, but outgoing too). Then you can just say, "What's up, I like you" and many will respond. If you're just an average guy, you're going to play the numbers game. Look for girls in everyday life too.
Star Gazer Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 "So, here's how this works: think about "busting her chops"; that is, challenging her and calling her on every detail. For example, you and she start talking, you attitude should be that you control the situation - not her. You can say things to her like, "Yeah, you're cute, but I'm used to dating much younger women", or "Gee, what an interesting color for a dress". The point here is that you're not complimenting her, you're challenging her." I'm not sure it would have worked on a younger version of me, either - frankly, his "challenges" are pretty unpleasant and still sound like negging to me - but at this point (in my 30s) I'm definitely old enough to be put off by it. I don't know ANY woman who wouldn't be put off by that sort of "challenge." It just screams insecure d-bag, but I suppose that behavior is designed to get insecure d-bagettes in return.
souvlaki Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 my god you are an online dating trainwreck, or a bad pickup line bot. I don't think I could have possibly contrived worse lines to women.
BobSacamento Posted October 23, 2010 Posted October 23, 2010 THANK YOU! That's exactly what I wanted! I wanted a specific, exact example of what to type back to some of the girls I messaged. Why was that so hard for some of the people on here to give? Would you like some crib notes as well?
Author U1987 Posted October 25, 2010 Author Posted October 25, 2010 I called this girl, but the phone rang and went straight to voicemail. I decided to leave a text asking about meeting up today instead. She never got back to me. I give up with this girl.
dispatch3d Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 I called this girl, but the phone rang and went straight to voicemail. I decided to leave a text asking about meeting up today instead. She never got back to me. I give up with this girl. fwiw if she ignores your call I wouldn't go on to ask her on a date. If she isn't willing to talk to you on the phone, she (probably) won't go on a date. Still think it's fair you gave up on this girl. I would have as well. Next time leave a voicemail to call you back maybe?
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