My chosen path - academia?

[that girl]

Some of you guys have mentioned teaching while doing a PhD though; Eeyore mentioned that it would be better to do so, so as to get some teaching experience under my belt to apply for lectureship after PhD? How does that happen then?

Frequently, the way you get funded for a PhD in the US is they hire you as a TA or a (rarely) a Professor for one class.

 

I'm really getting the vibe that you want to be in school, but I'm not sure that is going to lead to the kind of job you want. Consulting can involve flexible hours you work from home when you want, but usually people need to have a lot of experience under their belt before that happens. Professors can somewhat make their own hours, but end up with a lot of university responsibilities and still need to do their own research.

 

If you want high flexibility throughout your career and don't mind a low income, it sounds like you might be better off with something like yoga instructor, massage therapist, etc.

[sweetjasmine]

I see, thanks. Some of you guys have mentioned teaching while doing a PhD though; Eeyore mentioned that it would be better to do so, so as to get some teaching experience under my belt to apply for lectureship after PhD? How does that happen then?

 

Oh, sorry for not being clearer about that.

 

When you teach during your PhD, it's almost always at the institution where you're doing your program. So if you're enrolled as a PhD student at University of Whatsitcalled, you do your teaching there. You don't look for openings at Whateveritis College.

 

The way it's worked at the places I've been is that departments post their openings, and graduate students who are qualified to take those spots apply for them. They tend to be from the same department, but there are cases where people end up applying for something in another department (interdisciplinary studies, shortages, special qualifications, among other things). In some departments, it might work differently, and students might be assigned to a position or expected to do it under a specific system. For instance, graduate students might be required to TA a 101 class before they're allowed to do anything else.

 

I've heard of PhD students and PhD candidates teaching at other institutions, but that's usually been when there is some sort of exchange or agreement between schools.

 

As a PhD student, you generally teach as a TA, discussion section leader, lab instructor, etc. which is different from being a lecturer or professor Sometimes you're given the chance to create and/or teach your own course by yourself, with a member of the faculty giving you advice and guidance but letting you do the work. But even if you teach your own course, you're not on the level of lecturer. You're a step below the actual full-time faculty in the department, since you're still a student. It's a temporary position meant to give you teaching experience and a paycheck.

 

Applying for a position that's open to the public is different. When you apply for teaching in graduate school, it's limited to the pool of graduate students at your school and it's generally in the department's best interests to give you something at some point and to use your skills to fill staffing needs without having to go outside to hire someone who will demand more money and benefits. When applying for a lecturer position at another institution, you're competing with everyone else, so it's just like applying for any other job. No guarantees.

[Els]

Thanks again, jasmine. I get what you mean.

 

Frequently, the way you get funded for a PhD in the US is they hire you as a TA or a (rarely) a Professor for one class.

 

I'm really getting the vibe that you want to be in school, but I'm not sure that is going to lead to the kind of job you want. Consulting can involve flexible hours you work from home when you want, but usually people need to have a lot of experience under their belt before that happens. Professors can somewhat make their own hours, but end up with a lot of university responsibilities and still need to do their own research.

 

If you want high flexibility throughout your career and don't mind a low income, it sounds like you might be better off with something like yoga instructor, massage therapist, etc.

 

I did think about that. A guy I happened to meet in NZ is getting on quite nicely as a fishing guide - imagine that! However, I find myself very much more suited to cerebral work, rather than work that requires minimal use of logical/analytical braincells. The only other profession I did seriously consider other than lecturer/researcher/programmer were counselor/therapist, psychologist, or journalist. The first wouldn't work because I'm just really, really bad with 'connecting' with people and showing empathy - and let's face it, everyone would rather go to a therapist whom they feel comfortable with instead of one who just knows her stuff. The second, would involve a lot of clinical work and registration hassles, which is one of the things that turned me off pharmacy - whole lot of regulations needed to work in a particular place, VERY immobile. As for the last, well, I love writing, but I wouldn't enjoy having to attend events, interview people, etc, which are part of the daily tasks of most journalists.

 

Then again, it might possibly be a good idea to do a simple, mind-numbing job that gives me all the other perks, and save the braincells for brainteasers or strategy games at home. I'm just not sure I could live with myself if I let my intelligence go to waste like that.

 

Also, I need some sort of job security, and I need to be in a job that's at least somewhat high-demand. Why? Because I need to get out of my third-world country, and get PR/citizenship in a developed country. It would be much harder to get out as an unskilled worker (ie massage therapist), than as a highly-qualified professor. Also, no welfare scheme is going to be keeping me from starvation if I don't manage to get work for a while, which might happen if I go down a path with no backup plan.

 

What I plan to do is get tenure and lecture/research full time for a few years to get my PR and citizenship. After that, I can start to take things easy and do the part-time lecturer job if I wish.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Elswyth

[sb129]

Elswyth,

 

I can understand where you are coming from somewhat.

 

As you know, I am a dentist in NZ.

 

I have been qualified for about 10 years, and the first 5 years are pretty hard going while you find your feet clinically and learn just as much as you did in the 5 years at university.

 

Now, I am in a really nice job in a nice practice in a nice area- I don't have as many challenges as I had in those first years, either clinically or with people management.

 

I certainly don't know it all, but I am in a nice, safe rut.

 

I feel like I am "wasting" my intelligence quite a bit, but since I became a mum I lost a fair bit of that anyway.

 

My job has never really been my passion, and while you need a certain amount of intelligence to do it, once you have mastered the basics most of it is dependent on manual dexterity skills, a caring nature and good people skills, with some problem solving ability.

 

Point is- its allowed me to indulge other passions.

 

I have travelled the world, and have worked in another country. I have met lots of interesting people and have some funny stories to tell.

I would like to think I have made a difference to some peoples lives.

Being the kind of job that it is, I have had time and money to learn and do "fun" stuff outside of work.

 

And now that I am a mum, its the BEST job for me- its flexible and well paid. I can maintain a great work life balance, which would be difficult with many other jobs.

 

I feel now that I made the right career choice, even though it may have not been the most exciting or ground breaking.

 

Sometimes working to live is good enough.

 

Being a full time academic would be much too much of a commitment to me- that would be too much of a living to work scenario for my liking.

[Eeyore79]

You're unlikely to get a university teaching job without a PhD. You will probably have the opportunity to be a teaching assistant when you're a PhD student, but you'll be teaching with another professor, and you can't get such a position if you're not a PhD student - it's regarded as part of your training and is compulsory at some institutions.

 

It's much easier to get a work visa for another country if you're taking an academic job. I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US, academic jobs are exempt from a lot of the usual visa restrictions - a university can apply for a work visa at any time and won't be turned down because of quotas etc.

[sweetjasmine]

By the way, the few people that I've managed to speak to so far in NZ about graduate programs mention a 35-40 hour week typically (including time working at home). I've mainly spoken to them online though; I don't personally know anyone who's doing a postgrad here, and I've no idea how to meet them if I'm not going to uni just yet.

 

I missed this the first time around.

 

One way to try to find people is to check out the websites of departments at schools you'd be interested in. Often they list the names and contact information for their graduate students. If they don't, you can find an email for the departmental secretary and write to them, saying you're considering graduate study and would like to talk to/email with graduate students.

 

It's a little awkward to send an email out of the blue, but I've gotten two or three, and in my experience, most people take the time to respond.

[that girl]

Also, I need some sort of job security, and I need to be in a job that's at least somewhat high-demand. Why? Because I need to get out of my third-world country, and get PR/citizenship in a developed country.

 

Wait, I thought you lived in New Zealand?

 

It would be much harder to get out as an unskilled worker (ie massage therapist), than as a highly-qualified professor.

Not really. There isn't a professor shortage. The people who get work visas as a professor (and I know about a dozen people who have immigrated this way) aren't getting to immigrate because they have a PhD, they're managing to find a very specific position that makes it worth taking them on. Their not going to go through the visa process for a part time lecturer.

 

What I plan to do is get tenure and lecture/research full time for a few years to get my PR and citizenship. After that, I can start to take things easy and do the part-time lecturer job if I wish.

It take years to get tenure and you're supposed to be really actively working on research. And if you drop down afterwards you can lose tenure.

 

I know NZ gives points for specific careers (I'm assuming you want to immigrate to NZ) and something like surveying or audiology seems like a much better match for what you want. And pharmacy is on the list, so I don't understand if immigration is your goal why you don't just apply as a pharmacist, immigrate, work for a few years and then figure something out. What you're looking at now is 5+ more years of school before you can apply for hard to come by academic jobs, then you're going to work for another 5 years so you get tenure, and then drop down your teaching. That isn't a very logical plan.

[Els]

You're unlikely to get a university teaching job without a PhD. You will probably have the opportunity to be a teaching assistant when you're a PhD student, but you'll be teaching with another professor, and you can't get such a position if you're not a PhD student - it's regarded as part of your training and is compulsory at some institutions.

 

It's much easier to get a work visa for another country if you're taking an academic job. I'm not sure about other countries, but in the US, academic jobs are exempt from a lot of the usual visa restrictions - a university can apply for a work visa at any time and won't be turned down because of quotas etc.

 

I was hoping for that, yes. Those visa perks are only for full lecturers though, as I'm guessing?

 

Elswyth,

 

I can understand where you are coming from somewhat.

 

As you know, I am a dentist in NZ.

 

I have been qualified for about 10 years, and the first 5 years are pretty hard going while you find your feet clinically and learn just as much as you did in the 5 years at university.

 

Now, I am in a really nice job in a nice practice in a nice area- I don't have as many challenges as I had in those first years, either clinically or with people management.

 

I certainly don't know it all, but I am in a nice, safe rut.

 

I feel like I am "wasting" my intelligence quite a bit, but since I became a mum I lost a fair bit of that anyway.

 

My job has never really been my passion, and while you need a certain amount of intelligence to do it, once you have mastered the basics most of it is dependent on manual dexterity skills, a caring nature and good people skills, with some problem solving ability.

 

Point is- its allowed me to indulge other passions.

 

I have travelled the world, and have worked in another country. I have met lots of interesting people and have some funny stories to tell.

I would like to think I have made a difference to some peoples lives.

Being the kind of job that it is, I have had time and money to learn and do "fun" stuff outside of work.

 

And now that I am a mum, its the BEST job for me- its flexible and well paid. I can maintain a great work life balance, which would be difficult with many other jobs.

 

I feel now that I made the right career choice, even though it may have not been the most exciting or ground breaking.

 

Sometimes working to live is good enough.

 

Being a full time academic would be much too much of a commitment to me- that would be too much of a living to work scenario for my liking.

 

Sb,

 

Yes, I thought about that as well. But how much of one's youth does one sacrifice to save up enough moolah to be able to retire and do all the cool stuff (ie travel) soon enough? Pharmacists typically don't earn much. I think it would take me at least 10 years to reach where you are now.

 

I missed this the first time around.

 

One way to try to find people is to check out the websites of departments at schools you'd be interested in. Often they list the names and contact information for their graduate students. If they don't, you can find an email for the departmental secretary and write to them, saying you're considering graduate study and would like to talk to/email with graduate students.

 

It's a little awkward to send an email out of the blue, but I've gotten two or three, and in my experience, most people take the time to respond.

 

Thanks! I'll try that.

 

Wait, I thought you lived in New Zealand?

 

 

Not really. There isn't a professor shortage. The people who get work visas as a professor (and I know about a dozen people who have immigrated this way) aren't getting to immigrate because they have a PhD, they're managing to find a very specific position that makes it worth taking them on. Their not going to go through the visa process for a part time lecturer.

 

 

It take years to get tenure and you're supposed to be really actively working on research. And if you drop down afterwards you can lose tenure.

 

I know NZ gives points for specific careers (I'm assuming you want to immigrate to NZ) and something like surveying or audiology seems like a much better match for what you want. And pharmacy is on the list, so I don't understand if immigration is your goal why you don't just apply as a pharmacist, immigrate, work for a few years and then figure something out. What you're looking at now is 5+ more years of school before you can apply for hard to come by academic jobs, then you're going to work for another 5 years so you get tenure, and then drop down your teaching. That isn't a very logical plan.

 

I'm currently in NZ (as of 3 mths ago) but I'm not an NZ citizen.

 

I can't migrate as a pharmacist because of registration issues. Pharmacy, like medicine, is rife with them. Because my degree is from my home country, it isn't recognized in any developed countries, so I can't practice there. To move ANYwhere worth mentioning, I would need to complete full registration in my home country (which will take 1 year of training and 3 of govt service), then take (very difficult and expensive) exams, and then undergo 1-2 years of training in the new country before I can even work there. All the while hating my job.

 

I did consider the fact that working as a pharmacist in a developed country might not be too bad (part of the reason I hated it in my home country was the work culture, very badly staffed and equipped hospitals and crappy work policies), but this path would entail me working 4 years in my home country before I could leave. There is an alternative: Do a 3-year clinical masters course in the new country (Aussie offers that, but NZ doesn't), and I'll be automatically registered in the new country after. But I'd be paying full tuition fees to do a course that I might possibly throw away after.

 

NZ gives points for computer science workers, but I'm not sure if CS professors qualify. Regardless, I wouldn't mind just doing regular CS work for a while before doing my PhD, if it helps me get PR.

[sb129]

Sb,

 

Yes, I thought about that as well. But how much of one's youth does one sacrifice to save up enough moolah to be able to retire and do all the cool stuff (ie travel) soon enough? Pharmacists typically don't earn much. I think it would take me at least 10 years to reach where you are now.

 

Really? I graduated only 10 years ago, and I did it all while I travelled etc.

 

I was lucky in the respect that the UK recognises my qualification and I could practice there and earn money to travel etc.

 

Is your BF committed to his current job location? I know that if you want to do further training in pharmacy in NZ you are pretty much restricted to one place.

 

And anyway- aren't you travelling right now? You're in NZ- and you aren't from there so that is technically travel!

[Els]

Actually, I don't think NZ has any course that will accept me. All of their postgrad pharmacy courses (Otago and Auckland) seem to require that I be fully registered in my home country to begin with. Even then, I would really rather work as a researcher/professor than a pharmacist.

 

I am sort-of travelling, I suppose! The bf is actually sponsoring my stay here now though, since I moved to be with him.

[green_tea]

Just as a final note: I was a programmer/web designer for a while, and it bored me stupid. Every website is the same, you get sick to death of just sitting there and writing code, there's no variety and and it isn't intellectually challenging at all. So if you're thinking about that as a career option, try it out for a while before you commit to it, to make sure it isn't soul destroying like it was for me.

 

I've been a programmer for 15+ years and still love writing code, when I do get to write it. I love solving problems and writing good code. Sounds like programming was the wrong field for you if you found it soul destroying. Some of those 15 years was in NZ too (I'm from there) but I only did my bachelors degree, so no knowledge of post grad.

[eerie_reverie]

I don't work in CS, but I work with computer programmers a lot at my job at an insurance company. Our systems are home-grown so it's the programmers who write all the code to make sure our products are administered correctly by the system.

 

Our products are complex, there are a lot of regulations and IRS stipulations surrounding how we do business. It seems like a challenging job.

 

There also appears to be some flexibility for our programmers to work from home but that's true in general at my company. I've found the stereotype of corporate jobs being soul-destroyed 9-5's to be completely untrue.

Edited October 24, 2010 by eerie_reverie