Karma?

[willowthewisp]

Hi all,

 

So this will probably sound mean spirited and I have to say I do feel bad for thinking/feeling this way but!

 

Do you think Karma exists? I'd really like to hear peoples stories of their exes who have had karma rein down on them. I see people refer to it here and the fact that it will get them in the end but I see no evidence of it in my exes life.

 

Why do I care? Well, because he left me without any explanation or warning after nearly 20 years together, he left me homeless, jobless and most probably childless (as I am now at an age where I would have to meet someone really quickly in order to have any children, so not likely). I did nothing wrong to deserve this treatment - truly I didn't, my IC is convinced my X has commitment issues and is in mid-life crisis. I'm not saying I am perfect, far from it, but I did nothing to deserve this treatment by the man I have loved since highschool.

 

Like I said, it's probably very mean sprited of me to feel like I would like his world to come crashing down like mine did at his hands, but it erks me to think he is living it up in my home, with his new and younger GF.

 

Maybe I should not feel this way, I doubt him being unhappy would make me feel any better if I am honest, I still love him and don't want him to hurt, yet at the same time I want an acknowledgement of the fact what he did to me was wrong, rather than him carrying on without a care in the world, like his traetment of me has been rewarded. Does any of that make sense or am I just rambling?

[TaraMaiden]

Oh please let me answer this.

 

Karma (which is also known in some circles as Kamma) is Action. Vippaka is consequence.

We do kamma to ourselves.

Kamma is as a result of Volitional Action on our part.

 

For example: if you're driving at night, and you inadvertently hit a cat running across the road, you don't gain negative Karma from that. It was an accident.

 

But if you get out of your car, look for the cat, and find it, and take it to the vet and pay a fee to have it taken care of, that's generating good Karma.

 

If on the other hand, you willfully aim for the cat, and get it with your car, and drive off, target accomplished, that's a whole heap of negative karma for yourself, right there.

 

Kamma means you don't get away with anything. And it all counts.

Whatever thought/word/action process you CHOOSE to follow, so will kamma develop accordingly.

 

Kamma is not being punished/rewarded "for" your deeds, but it's being punished/rewarded BY them.

 

It's not what your ex has done to you, that is causing you heartache and anguish.

It's your mental and emotional/verbal reaction to it.

 

Now, I'm not suggesting you should just give a damn, or not be affected by it. Of course, that's natural. You'd be robotic otherwise.

The trick - if you really are asking about Kamma - is to develop and transform what you feel, into positive energy, for your own well-being.

 

How is that for openers?

[tornandmarried]

makes total sense.....its HARD to find someone thats willing to tuff out 20 years with you....and when his new and younger girl dumps him in a few weeks hell be in shock of the life he gave up......i had a girl dump me for a friend of mine...he was a junkie and robed her blind, basicly used her cuz she had a good job.....now she tells me about how great a guy i am and how she kicked herself for years after dumping me....what goes around comes around, its law of nature...his bad karma is you not taking him back after he messed up

[trippi1432]

Hi Willow - It's hard to say if Karma truly exists or not...I don't think it is something that we can "wish" on someone, I think it is the factor of their own lives and how fate plays a role in it.

 

It's not "mean-spirited", I believe we all go through a stage of anger and wish the other person could feel how we felt....it's not a measure of how we should become though, but I know you know that. My first ex was a cheater, but it didn't make me feel any better that his second wife cheated on him and left him. It didn't make me feel sad for him either, basically I was indifferent. In honesty, and as you stated, you want acknowledgment from him that what he did was wrong. Even though mine went through what he put me through, there was no acknowledgment....it was his pain, no recognition that it was the same thing he put me through because he was dwelling in his own angst.

 

Why? Because there are few people who walk away who get to that level of empathy. If they do, it takes many, many years and typically a catastrophic life event to get them there. Witabix started a very good thread on here in reference to feeling the remorse he put his ex through. Not sure if you have read it, but it is a good thread.

Edited October 12, 2010 by trippi1432

[tojaz]

Hi Willow

 

I like Taras explanation of Karma really, makes a lot of sense and is most likely the truest description.

 

On the other hand, the way most of the people would describe Karma here is a little different and not really karma at all. I will say though that his actions will most definitely be repayed to him. Not as Karma, but by the fact of that is how he chooses to treat people.

 

A man (or woman) that can abandon someone the way yours played out, harshly, without explanation, or warning. Throw someone that they had loved out in the cold with no regard for them (sounds a lot like my former soulmate actually) will naturally attract those kind of people to themselves just by the way they choose to live their life. Selfish people find others like themselves for justification and those people act in similar ways so it is only natural that this would not come full circle.

 

So its probably not Karma, but it is very likely that someday he will learn the damage he has done, and probably by having it done to him. Read Taras post again and keep applying it to your own life. Let his catch up to him, it will!

 

TOJAZ

[Don Ho]

Well Willow, without being a Buddhist or Philosopher I would say you should not wish bad luck or Karma on him. It's on him. If he has done you wrong, it may come back on him. The best you can do is treat yourself right and do something nice for other people. I understand your thought of "revenge" but it's really not productive for you. Let it go and move forward.

[porter218]

Karma has almost always caught up with everyone who has done me wrong. The best case was almost immediate. I left my xH one year after lots of cheating throughout our M on his part. About a month after I left him parts of his life started to fall apart. He ended up having to move in with one of the women he had cheated on me with. They ended up in a relationship that summer. Even though he was with her it really upset him that I had moved on for good this time. We have two kids and spent one sunday afternoon at a local park with the kids. The end of the afternoon came and he got really upset that I wouldn't let him come home with me. He started getting angry and reached his breaking point. He for the first time ever yelled at our kids. He told them in some not so nice words to take care of their mother and that he didn't want to see any of us again. They got very hurt by this and both of them started crying. It tore me up to see them upset like that. Karma decided that this time it wasn't going to wait too long because this incident was rather deserving. His birthday was one week after this incident and around 1am on his bday his gf called me to tell me he was in jail. I laughed then went back to sleep. Later the next day I get the details and was shocked. He convinced his gf to have a 3some for his bday with another woman and this womans bf shows up raving mad. He called the police and when they run everyones name it turned out my X had an old warrant for arrest for a driving with revoked license charge from 4yrs prior. He ended up getting the book thrown at him and served 4months in prison for this lame old charge. He wrote me a letter from prison telling me that he would never cross me again because he said it seems that karma has a special agreement with me:laugh:. I have to say that one was pretty special..

Edited October 13, 2010 by porter218

[worlybear]

Hi all,

 

So this will probably sound mean spirited and I have to say I do feel bad for thinking/feeling this way but!

 

Do you think Karma exists? I'd really like to hear peoples stories of their exes who have had karma rein down on them. I see people refer to it here and the fact that it will get them in the end but I see no evidence of it in my exes life.

 

Why do I care? Well, because he left me without any explanation or warning after nearly 20 years together, he left me homeless, jobless and most probably childless (as I am now at an age where I would have to meet someone really quickly in order to have any children, so not likely). I did nothing wrong to deserve this treatment - truly I didn't, my IC is convinced my X has commitment issues and is in mid-life crisis. I'm not saying I am perfect, far from it, but I did nothing to deserve this treatment by the man I have loved since highschool.

 

Like I said, it's probably very mean sprited of me to feel like I would like his world to come crashing down like mine did at his hands, but it erks me to think he is living it up in my home, with his new and younger GF.

 

Maybe I should not feel this way, I doubt him being unhappy would make me feel any better if I am honest, I still love him and don't want him to hurt, yet at the same time I want an acknowledgement of the fact what he did to me was wrong, rather than him carrying on without a care in the world, like his traetment of me has been rewarded. Does any of that make sense or am I just rambling?

I understand exactly how you feel. I think that Tara Maiden's desciption of karma is excellent.

Having said that, I think it is only human and natural to want things to go wrong for yor ex. I am a great believer in justice and hope that it will eventually prevail.

IMO a relationship based upon lies and deceit is not a good foundation for the future -youe ex and his new partner haven't fundamentally changed and are still selfish,narcissistic people- it won't take long for the cracks to show in their new relationship!

Look after yourself and keep moving forward, life has a great deal more to offer you!:bunny:

[willowthewisp]

I understand exactly how you feel. I think that Tara Maiden's desciption of karma is excellent.

Having said that, I think it is only human and natural to want things to go wrong for yor ex. I am a great believer in justice and hope that it will eventually prevail.

IMO a relationship based upon lies and deceit is not a good foundation for the future -youe ex and his new partner haven't fundamentally changed and are still selfish,narcissistic people- it won't take long for the cracks to show in their new relationship!

Look after yourself and keep moving forward, life has a great deal more to offer you!:bunny:

 

Sorry I should have been clearer, he didn't cheat or leave me for the new GF (to my knowledge) they got together about 10 months after he left me. What I meant was that it seems that his abandonment of me is being rewarded with his wonderful new happy life. So it seems we do not reep what we sow. If we did then I must have done something terrible for him to treat me the way he did, yet he is being rewarded for leaving me, so obviously I deserved it - according to that line of reasoning.

 

I guess what I am saying is that there is no Karma (in the sense used here, not the sense explained by Tara), I think we console ourseleves that the injustice done against us will be felt by the other party who caused it at some point, but I don't think that is true. People do s****y things to you and get away with it scott free, they prosper and you are left to deal with the pain and anguish they have caused. I just don't feel like my life is ever going to get better and he's living it up totally unaware and uncaring about what he has done.

 

Tojaz, I think you are right, but I also think these people are so self-focused that it won't bother them when it is done back to them?

[trippi1432]

Willow - A self absorbed person only looks to place blame...karma happens to them because someone else did something to cause it...below the surface, they think that they are a really good person...bad things shouldn't happen to them.

 

Be glad that you do not have to deal with your ex, as a parent it is the hardest place to be. Right now my hands are shaking and I would love to yank my ex's head off and shove it where he typically keeps it...up his azz.

 

Sometimes karma is knowing that you were married to a complete jerk and knowing that NOTHING is going to change that. Sometimes it's knowing that once your kids are grown, you no longer have to hear from that validating S-O-B again....my ex might be getting Karma right now...but I am getting drug into it...so where is the fairness in that?

[2sure]

Karma Shmarma...

 

What your asking is: Does what go around come around??

Do people get what they have coming???

Does one reap what the sew??

Will it come back to bite them in the a55??

Do you get what you give??

Garbage In Garbage Out?

 

Yeah. All of that usually happens. It comes down to values, decency, and Integrity. People who live without those things or who only apply them when it does not involve self sacrifice...end up with a life without them.

[Minnie09]

Karma Shmarma...

 

What your asking is: Does what go around come around??

Do people get what they have coming???

Does one reap what the sew??

Will it come back to bite them in the a55??

Do you get what you give??

Garbage In Garbage Out?

 

Yeah. All of that usually happens. It comes down to values, decency, and Integrity. People who live without those things or who only apply them when it does not involve self sacrifice...end up with a life without them.

 

I agree, but the point is that they don't care. They treat others poorly, cheat and deceive, lack integrity and whatnot - you name it -, but it won't affect them. Period. They will never learn their lesson, because they'll never understand who they really are. They don't look at themselves thoroughly. That's why people who are self-centered and lack introspection never suffer as we do. They are blissfully oblivious. And it's never their fault. And even if Karma or whatever you want to call it bites them in the butt, they don't get the message. They simply move on. That's the problem right there.

[2sure]

. That's why people who are self-centered and lack introspection never suffer as we do. They are blissfully oblivious. And it's never their fault. And even if Karma or whatever you want to call it bites them in the butt, they don't get the message. They simply move on. That's the problem right there.

 

Cant argue with that. Ive seen it happen. Bad things happen to good people and good things happen to real a55holes.

 

BUT, I really do believe that selfish people are often selfish because they have a great big empty hole they are continually feeding but never filling. I do. And I also think that while they may be completely content most of their lives , with simply filling that hole...that unless they get hit by a bus unexpectedly...that their lives will ultimately be plagued by emptiness, restlessness, a sense of being a victim to someone (cant deserve more unless you are) , and lonely. And often bad choices in general because when we make choices based on selfish reasoning...they are impulsive. What you decide you need today will be different all the time. Because selfish need is endless.

[tojaz]

Sorry I should have been clearer, he didn't cheat or leave me for the new GF (to my knowledge) they got together about 10 months after he left me. What I meant was that it seems that his abandonment of me is being rewarded with his wonderful new happy life. So it seems we do not reep what we sow. If we did then I must have done something terrible for him to treat me the way he did, yet he is being rewarded for leaving me, so obviously I deserved it - according to that line of reasoning.

 

I guess what I am saying is that there is no Karma (in the sense used here, not the sense explained by Tara), I think we console ourseleves that the injustice done against us will be felt by the other party who caused it at some point, but I don't think that is true. People do s****y things to you and get away with it scott free, they prosper and you are left to deal with the pain and anguish they have caused. I just don't feel like my life is ever going to get better and he's living it up totally unaware and uncaring about what he has done.

 

Tojaz, I think you are right, but I also think these people are so self-focused that it won't bother them when it is done back to them?

 

First off Willow STOP THINKING YOU DESERVED THIS! Nobody does. If you start looking for fault just to make it all make sense then your heading down a bad road, and a road thats very hard to come back from. I've watched it happen and it brought me to tears.

 

Of course he seems to be living it up now, he needs to prove to himself and everyone else that he made the right decision. So he will move on quickly, and proclaim how much better his life is. OF course those that advertise that fact rarely are and when he tires of keeping up the show and tries to build something real, not only will it most likely fall apart, he will realize that he already had it, and threw it away. Thats when it will all catch up to him.

 

Meanwhile your feeling lousy Willow, and thats understandable, but your not hiding from your emotions, your feeling it and working through it, and it will get better with time. I've had a lot of set back and lost a lot of people that were very important to me in a very short time, but Im better then i was a year ago and I think I will be better still in the next. So will you, I promise!

 

TOJAZ

[porter218]

You know...there is something I would really like to point out, Willow. You don't always know when Karma has caught up to someone.. especially when you aren't with them 24hrs a day. How do you know what is going on inside of his relationship? I found out only this past year about how my xbf from 10yrs ago secretly paid for his wrongs in a way I would have never known if he didn't tell me. Don't spend anymore time worrying about you x. He is a real a$$ and surely will pay eventually. I am sure your life will turn around too. I'm sorry things seem so bleak right now, put all your focus into doing what you can to fix that.

[LoveTruthChaos]

First off Willow STOP THINKING YOU DESERVED THIS! Nobody does. If you start looking for fault just to make it all make sense then your heading down a bad road, and a road thats very hard to come back from. I've watched it happen and it brought me to tears.

 

G*DDAMN I needed to hear this, so badly.

All I need now is to really believe it.

[BeagleGal]

This is what I needed to read. I have been beating myself up relentlessly over my breakup since its happened.

 

Willow, I like you, have been seeking "karmic retribution" on my ex. I hate that I do because I think its a waste of my energy to wish for him to get a taste of his own medicine. However, because of the circumstances under which we broke up and the aftermath, I can't help it.

 

Tojaz: I think you summed up how I think my ex is going about his life now since ending it with me. He told me, when I asked him to come clean with me about all he's done, that "life was much less complicated before". But because his image and reputation is important to him, he carries on like what he's done was good and he's an upstanding guy. He doesnt want anyone to think that he's f*cked up and gotten himself into a mess. Unfortunately people already do. As soon as news broke out about what he did, people didn't look at him the same. I should be clear I am talking about our colleagues as we work for same company, different offices - thank God.

 

Anyways, I think my point is that I'm on the fence now on how I feel about karma re my ex. I want him to learn his lesson but at the same time, I just want to not focus my energy on that anymore. I've done that enough now and need to really starting getting my sh*t together and move forward. But its very reassuring that it does get better and this pain does subside and end.

 

First off Willow STOP THINKING YOU DESERVED THIS! Nobody does. If you start looking for fault just to make it all make sense then your heading down a bad road, and a road thats very hard to come back from. I've watched it happen and it brought me to tears.

 

Of course he seems to be living it up now, he needs to prove to himself and everyone else that he made the right decision. So he will move on quickly, and proclaim how much better his life is. OF course those that advertise that fact rarely are and when he tires of keeping up the show and tries to build something real, not only will it most likely fall apart, he will realize that he already had it, and threw it away. Thats when it will all catch up to him.

 

Meanwhile your feeling lousy Willow, and thats understandable, but your not hiding from your emotions, your feeling it and working through it, and it will get better with time. I've had a lot of set back and lost a lot of people that were very important to me in a very short time, but Im better then i was a year ago and I think I will be better still in the next. So will you, I promise!

 

TOJAZ

[kuma]

You know...there is something I would really like to point out, Willow. You don't always know when Karma has caught up to someone.. especially when you aren't with them 24hrs a day.

 

This is so true. Willow, the best revenge is living well. Please focus on yourself. ((hugs))

[trippi1432]

I don't know if it's Karma, or just what goes around comes around, but after going through what I went through yesterday with my ex and our son I came to the realization that nothing is going to change my WAS. In his mind, he is bettering his life (said with exasperation while I was on the phone with my son). I almost had to snicker at that (mean, I know) BUT...really, who was he trying to convince?

 

The fact is, my ex will always look in the mirror and point the finger at everyone but himself. His apologies have always been and always will be only for the simple reason of either justifying his actions or because he needs something (in this case, he needs me to take our son for him to go out of town). He will never realize the role he played in the way our son is today, but I also know that I can't change the past. I do wish that I had played my role better, not for my ex, but to have better protected my son from having to witness the emotional and verbal abuse. That wasn't fair to him.

 

At the end of the day, my ex is just one man, he is not my judge or jury nor am I on trial to validate his reasons for his leaving. I don't wish my ex ill intentions, actually quite the opposite. The drama from yesterday was the drama I lived for almost 15 years, knowing that I don't have to put up with that anymore is almost liberating.

 

Just my own personal experience that I thought I would share...I know that not all relationships are built the same, but changing perspective and making him a distant past is putting me closer to a better place in my life.

[Crusoe]

The past nearly always catches up with a person Willow. Just because a person can live with their actions now doesn't mean they will be able to live with them later in life. I know a lot of men who struggle with the knowledge of the pain they caused when they were younger. You can't see it, you never know it's there until one quiet night over a couple beers they tell you. They go back to their seemingly perfect lives but from that point on you know they don't sleep well, that they are chewing themselves up from the inside out. Sometimes it's not until the end that the past bites.

 

A few weeks ago I went to see my ex's father on his death bed. A happy and selfish man who led a happy and selfish life. Popular man too, had dozens come to pay their last respects. His ex, my ex and his only son did not. We spoke a lot those couple of weeks, he had a lot to confess. No self pity, just the realization of the pain he had caused in his life. He went out hard. It all catches up with you.

[What_Next]

I'm not sure I believe in karma or whatever you want to term it as, but I do fully believe that in the end you help determine your own destiny.

 

I wish my STBX no ill will. In fact I hope she goes on to live a happy and joyful life. In her words she made "A" mistake by cheating on me. Well the truth is she made tens of thousands of "mistakes", each time she lied to me about a text, or an email, or a phone call. Part of me wants for her to go through the pain I went through after learning of her affair, however that would serve little purpose.

 

I know I can move forward in my life with my head held high and know I took the moral high ground. Will that guarntee me any sort of better place in life? Hard to tell, but if there is a higher power of some sort then surely it'll come out in the wash right?

[TaraMaiden]

Sorry I should have been clearer, he didn't cheat or leave me for the new GF (to my knowledge) they got together about 10 months after he left me. What I meant was that it seems that his abandonment of me is being rewarded with his wonderful new happy life.

This 'wonderful new, happy life' is not a reward for having 'abandoned' you.

This is him dropping the past, getting on with his present, in an effort to give himself a future.

This is nothing to do with you.

 

So it seems we do not reep what we sow.

Are you referring to his sowing - or yours?

 

If we did then I must have done something terrible for him to treat me the way he did,

Something stopped working. There's no way of knowing what it was, and you have no way of either understanding or explaining what it was. But the fact is - and the fact remains - that even by your very words here - you are creating Negative Kamma for yourself.

 

You need to consider your thoughts.

That's all they are.

Thoughts.

Of your own creation.

of your own making.

Yet you persist in permitting them to snowball, gather speed, momentum and desperation, and warp everything you perceive, like looking at the world through a faulty lens....

 

yet he is being rewarded for leaving me, so obviously I deserved it - according to that line of reasoning.

That line of reasoning is flawed, inaccurate and self-defeating.

There is no reward for leaving you. He is simply progressing along his path, just as you are not making progress along yours.

He is moving on; you are stuck.

 

These are not criticisms, or accusations.

It is simply precisely what is happening.

 

I guess what I am saying is that there is no Karma (in the sense used here, not the sense explained by Tara),

There is kamma. In my view and from my standpoint, there is always Kamma, whether you recognise it or not, choose to acknowledge it or not, describe it as something else, or not.

Kamma IS.

 

What you are describing is NOT kamma.

You are seeking answers to something which is binding you and making you believe there is a retributive force at work and that somehow, it's out to get you.

You might call it whatever you like - but that's not how Kamma works.

 

I think we console ourseleves that the injustice done against us will be felt by the other party who caused it at some point, but I don't think that is true.

I do.

I think they're just good at either ignoring it or hiding it. often both. It sits in their peripheral vision, but providing they don't turn their heads, they're fine. "If I'm not looking at you, how can I see you....?"

 

People do s****y things to you and get away with it scott free, they prosper and you are left to deal with the pain and anguish they have caused.

"people"?

You're talking about one 'person'.

Not people.

People in general, don't deserve to have this general description applied to them. if you narrow it down to the proper proportion, then things are not as severe as saying 'people'.

People here are sticking by you, offerring you support, a shoulder to lean on, counsel and friendship.

 

That's 'people'. Not one 'person'.

Isn't that better?

 

I just don't feel like my life is ever going to get better and he's living it up totally unaware and uncaring about what he has done.

This is your problem.

The self-defeating, self-beating resentful, angry, hurt attitude.

I know, I do understand, and I'm trying to help here.

But nobody - least of all him! - is really doing this to you, but you.

He's oblivious, unaware and completely ignorant of what you are thinking, feeling and going through.

This is not deliberate spite on his part.

It's not deliberate anything, on his part.

How can he be hurting you so badly, when he's probably not even focussing on you?

he can't be.

Then answer me this....

Who, logically, is the one hurting you?

 

Tojaz, I think you are right, but I also think these people are so self-focused that it won't bother them when it is done back to them?

That is not, and neither should it be, your concern.

Your concern is to not think outwards.

Your concern should be to focus inwards, watch those thoughts, and stem them.

 

Thoughts are self-made.

They're only thoughts.

And they can be changed.

[tojaz]

A bit harsh don't you think Tara? I think we all knew what she meant by karma when she posted this and really wasn't looking to have her whole post and even her very way of thinking torn down to basic elements in order to find them faulty.

 

Willow is hurting, fresh of of a break up that obviously has hurt her pretty bad, and her thread was written to that end, not open discussion on the theory of Karma, Kamma, Camry or any other. Shes asking about justice.

 

Im all about positive thinking, have been reading the Tao with great interest lately believe it or not. I read your post and while a lot of fact and good information is shared, the delivery screams one thing GET OVER IT! Its not that easy for most of us though, even if it is the best way out. You find me a break up thats that easy to get over and I'll show you a relationship that didn't mean very much. Not the case here it seems.

 

Right or wrong, keep the intended audience in mind, a group made up of the heartbroken here and a fragile bunch at times and i see harsh posts run far to many away. I usually love your posts Tara, but sometimes the delivery will under mind the message.

 

TOJAZ

[TaraMaiden]

I want her to absolutely know the truth of this statement:

She is wholly deserving of complete and total unconditional love, and it must first and foremost come from herself.

 

She has to believe she is fully deserving of this - and she is - but she has to first acknowledge that this ex- actually has no power over her.

 

Words always sound worse without the hug.

Words don't 'sound' at all, on a forum.

If I was face to face with her, I'd use the same words.

They'd just 'sound' different.

And I'd probably be sharing a bottle of wine with her, listening to cheesy music.....

 

And purely from a personal point of view and perspective, if people are talking about 'karma' but they don't really mean 'karma, they just mean something different - then calling it 'karma' is calling it what it isn't. And perpetuating the misconception....

 

It's like calling George Bush, George W. Bush.

 

They seem the same - but they're not......

[tojaz]

I want her to absolutely know the truth of this statement:

She is wholly deserving of complete and total unconditional love, and it must first and foremost come from herself.

 

She has to believe she is fully deserving of this - and she is - but she has to first acknowledge that this ex- actually has no power over her.

 

Lovely words Tara, absolutely lovely. I agree whole heartedly that he has no actual power over her, I would imagine deep down she knows that as well. In going through an emotional time though, it can be difficult if not impossible to see that. Especially a loss. It is a way of mourning and for seeking answers. While it hurts, it does serve a purpose.

 

Words always sound worse without the hug.

Words don't 'sound' at all, on a forum.

If I was face to face with her, I'd use the same words.

They'd just 'sound' different.

And I'd probably be sharing a bottle of wine with her, listening to cheesy music.....

 

True, but not having a tone or sound makes it all the more important to choose words carefully because the tone is open to interpretation, what is surely meant as good solid and incredibly insightful advice, can all too easily be seen as critical to someone who is fragile and quite possibly already critical of them self.

 

And purely from a personal point of view and perspective, if people are talking about 'karma' but they don't really mean 'karma, they just mean something different - then calling it 'karma' is calling it what it isn't. And perpetuating the misconception....

 

Many millions the world over use the word karma incorrectly, so much that it is pretty well accepted in the vernacular just as Willow and others described it. While it is not the same and may add to the misconceptions some have, I think true Karma and Kamma Niyama's definition will survive. By the way I laughed pretty good at your analogy!

 

It's like calling George Bush, George W. Bush.

They seem the same - but they're not......

 

Not trying to ruffle your feathers Tara, just wanted to mention it so nobody elses gets ruffled needlessly either.

 

TOJAZ