throwawaywk Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 First thanks in advance for reading. I don't have anyone to talk to about this. I have been with my girlfriend for close to two years. We are both in our mid-twenties and our eachother's first. We are also both virgins. In terms of our emotional intimacy, I think we are doing well. We are very affectionate, love eachother's deeply and express that verbally a lot. We are on the verge of moving in together as well. So my concern is around the physical intimacy. At the beginning of our relationship, the passion was intense. We moved slow in terms of sex, but otherwise couldn't keep our hands and lips off each other, a lot of foreplay as the main event. After 7 months or so she was ready and wiling to have sex, but we couldn't go through with it because it hurt too much for her - we couldn't get even a centimeter in without her being in intense pain. Tried again a few weeks later withthe same result. I told her I could wait as long as she needed and would never pressure her. Now, over a year has passed. As promised, I have not brought it up, nor has she. I'm totally fine with not havng sex if she is not ready. The issue for me is that all sexual intimacy has stopped. There's no more petting, necking, not even making out. I'll initiate but I can tell she's not very interested. I don't remember the last time she initiated anything physical. It's been like this for at least 4 months now. In my mind there are a few things I want to clear the air on: - why the passion and her libido has dissapeared - whether there is anythin we can do to help her understand her body better and why trying to have sex hurts - I suspect a thick hymen or vaginismus - is she still attracted to me. To be honest, I find myself sad that I may just be undesirable to her. I have not changed physically (still slim) and hold down a good job as well. The reason I am scared to bring this up is because the emotional intimacy is so wonderful I can't bear the thought of damaging it. We still cuddle and hold onto eachother tightly when we go to sleep. We still kiss a lot, but as I said above, rarely passionately but rather tenderly. I am afraid that bringing up the topic of our nonexistent physical intimacy will cause her to think I'm only about sex and that she'll back away from me. If I lose the emotional intimacy, then I have nothing left. Moreover I want us to recapture that passion not because I ask her to but because she wants to. My own libido is as high as ever and to be with a girl that I love and thinks is the most attractive creature on earth but not to have any physical intimacy with (not even necessarily sex) is getting harder by the day. I think about it constantly when I'm alone and worry myself to death that this will turn into the dreaded passionless/sexless marriages that i've read countless stories about. I've often posed the question to myself of whether I could be ok with that. I would never cheat so this would be a life of love but devoid of intimacy. And I don't know. I don't know what to do. I know I should sit her down and talk about this, but I've read so many stories about sexless relationships/marriages where one side backs further away when pressured. And with regards specifically to the physical relationship, we are both inexperienced. We both also have HSV-1. We tried having oral once before we knew this, but after finding out, she is not willing anymore. So no penetrative sex because of pain. No oral sex because of this. And I suspect that all of this compounded together has turned her off intimacy entirely. I am at a loss as to what to do.
Sabali Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 This is a very interesting story. It's definitely not your run of the mill thread post. Yes, this situation is complicated but I do not think you will find the answer on this site or any other. I think the answer lies in communicating with your girlfriend. Communication is the key in all relationships and I am sure you realize this. I can't see your girlfriend as thinking you are all about sex after being with her for almost two years and displaying the support and intimacy you have been displaying. You just want to express your genuine great feelings for her on a physical level. I think you should talk to her about this saying pretty much what you said here. Continue to not pressure her but let her know your concerns and that you enjoy all of the positive things you stated above. It is normal for the first few times to be painful for a woman but this may be a little unusual in the fact that it causes her to completely avoid sex. Usually natural instincts and sex drive would push things past the discomfort until it becomes pleasurable. Does she receive regular vaginal exams? You don't have to answer this because I am just bringing up an important point. She may need to bring this to the attention of her OBGYN doctor. You can talk to her without putting pressure on her. Just show your sincerity and concern. I am sure it will work out and soon you guys will be breaking headboards and keeping the neighbors up.
Feelin Frisky Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 You two need to just be honest with each other--have that "talk". And don't let her evade you. You're investing lots of valuable youth time with her and you may find yourself in your 30's without a chair when the music stops. Consider that a motivated woman will seek a medical alternative if she can't lose the hymen though sex (or horse-back riding:p). It's gotta go sometime or you're screwed. If she won't even go there because she's consumed by this "pain" idea, you'll need to face your future with that. Perhaps there are other reasons why she has shut down. In any case, this is not a good sign. Prepare to face reality.
Author throwawaywk Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 Ya I know we need to talk. I guess I just need to man up enough to start the conversation. I am patient with the situation for now, but 1 year from now, 5 years from now? If you asked any 25 year old, male or female, if they would be willing to have no physical intimacy of any sort for the rest of their lives...that's a tough pill to swallow. And as much as I stay strong emotionally on this, there are many times I just feel so sad. It's funny - when I am away from her, I can't get this off my mind but every time I see her in person, I fall in love with her all over again and say to myself "maybe I can live on emotional intimacy alone". I agree that one worrying part is the fact that a motivated partner would have gone to the doctor by now regarding the pain issue. Unfortunately (and sadly for this particular situation) she abhors going to the doctor. I think she is more the type to put off dealing with these kind of issues if she can, which is exarcebated by this dislike for doctors. I'm sure somewhere down the line it's going to be an effort to get her to do regular pap smears as well.
hellhathnofury Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Talk about her avoiding the issue.... I think she's very comfortable with the situation, and is happy on the one hand that you are not pursuing a physical relationship, but I'd be willing to bet a pound to a peck of pears that on the other hand, in the back of her mind, she knows.... This is going to surface as a major issue, but she's avoiding mentioning it, discussing it or even dropping any hints for fear that you will express your frustration, desire and wish to be intimate with her. I think it's what they euphemistically call - "The Elephant In The Room"..... The only way to resolve this issue is to bring it out in the open. I think what may be a good idea is actually to write her a letter, expressing your love for her, but also your concerns about her well-being, her discomfort, her obvious avoidance and her resistance. You have to approach it somehow., This way may be the gentlest one to start the communication-ball rolling.........
Mike B. Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 I find it very strange that sheisn't even willing to have oral sex with you because you're both infected with HSV-1 which about up to 90% of the world is. With those odds, she is probably not willing to go down on almost everyone on Earth. I wonder if she had a troubled sexual past. Such as inappropriate contact.
Author throwawaywk Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 When someone who says they love you has no apparent physical desire for you, can they still genuinely be interested in a long-term relationship? All the expected insecurities have popped into my head as to why the situation is this way...her commitment level, my attractiveness, etc. I'm moving in with her at the end of the month. I hope I'm making the right decision.
Author throwawaywk Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 Mike - tbh, I care even more about being able to give her oral. I'm naturally that way. This is especially the case because I realize that sex is going to be a challenge for us. Oral (from my totally third-hand experience) is the most effective way to make a girl orgasm, and without it I feel like I'm going to have one hand tied behind my back from the very start in terms of developing sexual chemistry and getting her to relax and enjoy being physical. I sort of feel like I'm in a perfect storm.
hellhathnofury Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 No, 80% of the world's population have developed antibodies against HPV-1. That means that 20% have it. There are two types of herpes simplex virus. HSV-1, which is the most common type, usually causes cold sores (oral herpes). HSV-2 usually causes genital herpes. But both types can infect any area of the skin or mucous membranes. Approximately 80 per cent of the adult population have antibodies against HSV-1 in their blood. Around 25 per cent of the adult population have antibodies against HSV-2. It's an oral virus, it causes cold sores, but can be spread to other areas where there are soft, moist mucous membranes. Avoid direct contact with the sores. These can appear on every part of the body, including the fingers and genitals. Wash your hands after touching the lips. Avoid picking at the sores as this can spread the virus to other parts of the body or result in a bacterial infection of the sores. From here
hellhathnofury Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 When someone who says they love you has no apparent physical desire for you, can they still genuinely be interested in a long-term relationship? Possibly. What they forget, is that it's a two-way thing. The thing is - could you be interested in a long-term relationship if you knew it would be a celibate one? All the expected insecurities have popped into my head as to why the situation is this way...her commitment level, my attractiveness, etc. Listen very carefully: THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU. In other words, this is not your doing, and you have nothing to be insecure about. You sound like a level-headed, respectful, generous, considerate and loving young man. There is no problem at your end of the deal. THis is a problem she has - and one she is furiously doing everything she can to avoid addressing. I'm moving in with her at the end of the month. I hope I'm making the right decision. Bluntly? I would say no, you're definitely not.
Author throwawaywk Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 Actually sorry to be the fact guy as I know you are trying to help, which I am very thankful for, but... You develop antibodies because you have been exposed to the virus. Antibodies are produced in response to having been exposed. The rate of HSV-1 is indeed very high -- I think 80% is toward the higher end of estimates I've seen though. When I talked to the doc he said that many clinics will exclude hsv-1 from panel tests because it is so prevalent and comparatively innocuous (no real health risks), yet it has the potential to cause a lot of worry and relationship complication. Case in point, my relationship.
Mike B. Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 No, 80% of the world's population have developed antibodies against HPV-1. That means that 20% have it. It's an oral virus, it causes cold sores, but can be spread to other areas where there are soft, moist mucous membranes. From here I think you misunderstand the interpretation of this. When someone naturally develops antibodies to the HSV-1 virus, it means that they were infected with it and their body began to produce a natural defense against ie., antibodies. For instance, when someone is infected with AIDS, they do the ELISA test on their serum which detects antibodies to HIV. Your body wouldn't develop antibodies to HIV unless it was infected with HIV. So according to the info you provided above, 80% of the world has developed antibodies to HSV-1 which means that 80% of the world has been exposed to this virus. The other 20% could possibly not be infected with the virus but you must take into account people with immune system deficiencies who do not have a properly functioning immune system to produce antibodies against any virus and testing errors. In other words, the HSV-1 infection rate is likely higher than 80%. This is why I said up to 90% of the world is infected with HSV-1. It's depending on whose research or research paper you read. It is a common virus that exist in the human body and it's no big deal. Almost everyone has it.
Mike B. Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Actually sorry to be the fact guy as I know you are trying to help, which I am very thankful for, but... You develop antibodies because you have been exposed to the virus. Antibodies are produced in response to having been exposed. The rate of HSV-1 is indeed very high -- I think 80% is toward the higher end of estimates I've seen though. When I talked to the doc he said that many clinics will exclude hsv-1 from panel tests because it is so prevalent and comparatively innocuous (no real health risks), yet it has the potential to cause a lot of worry and relationship complication. Case in point, my relationship. Oh, you beat me to it. Good.
hellhathnofury Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Oh. OK. I misunderstood the site then. Sorry for the confusion. But my other advice still stands. That was really damn good advice, hot off the press, and the best you'll ever get. I'm kidding......
hellhathnofury Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 This post deleted. don't worry. My error.
Author throwawaywk Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 Thank you for the advice. You are right - I need to stay confident in myself as I'm going to jar to be the one that takes the lead on improving this situation. We are already in the midst of signing the lease so its as good as done. I I back out now, the signaling will likely harm what is otherwise a wonderful relationship (besides this intimacy issue). Given that we are both super busy and the stress on top from moving, I'm gonna wait a few more months and bring it up at the end of the year. In the meantime I'm gonna make more of an effort on romance and make her feel like the beautiful girl she is. I'll hit the gym as well and be happy as i can be. I really want the passion to come back on it's own, but if not then it is time to take action.
Sabali Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 You may want to consider laying her across your lap and spanking her on the @$$ to get things started but I realize that my methods do not necessarily work for everyone. Best of luck!
Author throwawaywk Posted October 17, 2010 Author Posted October 17, 2010 Has anyone been in a similar situation or know someone who has? What did you/he/she do? How did it turn out?
SincereOnlineGuy Posted October 18, 2010 Posted October 18, 2010 Vaginismus is the likely culprit down there, but you're likely to learn that it is the result of unsavory sexual experiences way back in her formative years. This would be one thing if her emotions and her brain were wholly desirous of boffing your brains out while her birth canal was resistant, but what you describe sounds like somebody whose sexuality has been wounded by something in the past.
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