Men complaining about women being difficult to understand - really?

[Els]

For ages I've heard men (bfs, male friends, etc) saying that women are complicated and difficult to understand. But here's what I don't get - I've pretty much found out that BEING complicated produces better results!

 

I have a habit of stating whatever I feel and think in a very straightforward manner, complete with logical sequences and analogies. However, I find that the best way to get the bf to listen isn't to just go straight out and say, "Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?" - that makes him unhappy and defensive. Instead, I need to act sad and damsel-in-distress for a while. Then he holds me, tries to make things better. I don't tell him what's wrong. But after a few oblique hints, he finally gets it, and we either talk about it on his initiative or he does something to make it better.

 

Is it just me, or aren't guys (including my bf) just shooting themselves in the foot here?

[USMCHokie]

Instead, I need to act sad and damsel-in-distress for a while. Then he holds me, tries to make things better. I don't tell him what's wrong. But after a few oblique hints, he finally gets it, and we either talk about it on his initiative or he does something to make it better.

 

If you did that, this is what would happen:

 

Me: Hey, what's wrong?

Her: Oh, nothing...

Me: Ok.

 

And that would be the end of it. But then again, I don't think like a lot of guys... I appreciate honest and open communication.

[skydiveaddict]

No Elswyth, I agree w/you. Women are not hard to understand..

When they are done w/ you, you get dumped and they move on.

[Pyro]

I would rather she be straight forward. I refuse to pay any games.

[Els]

If you did that, this is what would happen:

 

Me: Hey, what's wrong?

Her: Oh, nothing...

Me: Ok.

 

And that would be the end of it. But then again, I don't think like a lot of guys... I appreciate honest and open communication.

 

Trust me, I wish this could be the best way to do things as well...

[sagetalk]

Guys don't want to talk about it because most girls are prideful and will almost never admit to being wrong. Why talk about stuff that just leads to a girl accusing you of being: "mean", "cruel", "heartless", "you don't love me", "how could you" "You, you, you, you ,you, you, your fault, your fault, you, your fault not mine, it's all your fault".

 

Yeah, no thanks.

 

Being uncomplicated means that you're wrong when you're wrong and you suck it up. Being complicated means you are right when you're wrong. That's why men think women are complicated, in a nutshell.

[Els]

If you did that, this is what would happen:

 

Me: Hey, what's wrong?

Her: Oh, nothing...

Me: Ok.

 

And that would be the end of it. But then again, I don't think like a lot of guys... I appreciate honest and open communication.

 

 

Reading back your post, I realized you might have misinterpreted - I don't say 'Nothing's wrong'. What I meant was that I had to let him see me in distress, let him be concerned and ask for a while first, before I tell him (and not in a straightforward barrage of thoughts either).

[Els]

Guys don't want to talk about it because most girls are prideful and will almost never admit to being wrong. Why talk about stuff that just leads to a girl accusing you of being: "mean", "cruel", "heartless", "you don't love me", "how could you" "You, you, you, you ,you, you, your fault, your fault, you, your fault not mine, it's all your fault".

 

Yeah, no thanks.

 

Being uncomplicated means that you're wrong when you're wrong and you suck it up. Being complicated means you are right when you're wrong. That's why men think women are complicated, in a nutshell.

 

So what do you think of the talk being, as I said in my OP: "Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?"

[TaurusTerp]

So what do you think of the talk being, as I said in my OP: "Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?"

 

Maybe you should date guys that are mature enough to communicate openly. Doing the "need to talk about x, y, z" method makes for a healthy relationship.

 

If you have to pretend to be sad for awhile before you can resolve issues, you both need to grow the hell up.

[Imajerk17]

For ages I've heard men (bfs, male friends, etc) saying that women are complicated and difficult to understand. But here's what I don't get - I've pretty much found out that BEING complicated produces better results!

 

I have a habit of stating whatever I feel and think in a very straightforward manner, complete with logical sequences and analogies. However, I find that the best way to get the bf to listen isn't to just go straight out and say, "Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?" - that makes him unhappy and defensive. Instead, I need to act sad and damsel-in-distress for a while. Then he holds me, tries to make things better. I don't tell him what's wrong. But after a few oblique hints, he finally gets it, and we either talk about it on his initiative or he does something to make it better.

 

Is it just me, or aren't guys (including my bf) just shooting themselves in the foot here?

 

I'm confused. He responds better to drama? I appreciate straight talk.

[USMCHokie]

Reading back your post, I realized you might have misinterpreted - I don't say 'Nothing's wrong'. What I meant was that I had to let him see me in distress, let him be concerned and ask for a while first, before I tell him (and not in a straightforward barrage of thoughts either).

 

So what do you say in place of "nothing's wrong" before you tell him...?

 

And I don't think it really matters...because silence is a response...

[sagetalk]

So what do you think of the talk being, as I said in my OP: "Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?"

 

Because it's a prelude to blaming him for something. You don't want to talk, you want to blame him for your unhappiness.

 

That phrase is the same thing as saying, "Hi, I'm ticked at you and get ready to get blamed for a slew of my problems". Geez, I wonder why he doesn't like it.

[carhill]

Good insight OP. You've identified an element of your respective attraction styles and communication dynamics.

 

If you are, instinctively, a straightforward, calm communicator and he is attracted to the hot mess difficult complex type (I'm exaggerating here), either or both of you can alter your behaviors short-term, but, IMO, long term, I'd be cautious. The same applies to you. Understanding and accepting your attraction and communication style and seeing a partner clearly in that regard is elemental to a successful long term partnership. We are all different and no two people are perfectly matched, but it's important IMO to accept our attraction to those differences and reconcile that attraction with what is healthy for our psychology.

 

IMO, this is where living together with him during his schooling will help you see clearly. What you do with that information is up to you. Am I making too much of nothing? Perhaps. However, that is an important part of my psychology, examining the twists and turns of how we think and feel, and a woman needs to find that *attractive* to ever last long-term. She can 'fake' it for awhile, as my now ex-wife did, but truth always wins out. Best to accept truth, whatever it is to you. Good luck

[that girl]

I don't know why, but I have noticed that more men than women have trouble putting themselves in someone else's shoes. Like guys are more likely to need it flat out spelled out to them why their girlfriend might be annoyed that the guy stayed late at work without calling, one of those things that should be a minor "Gosh, I totally screwed up, sorry" turns into a big fight because he doesn't get why she'd be annoyed that she was worried about him for no reason.

 

Not that women don't have their flaws, I've just noticed this one is more common with men.

 

As for your boyfriend's inability to deal with your complaints directly, it would drive me crazy but it sounds like he might have a white knight thing. He can handle making you feel better, but he can't handle discussing what he might have done wrong outside of that context.

 

Guys don't want to talk about it because most girls are prideful and will almost never admit to being wrong. Why talk about stuff that just leads to a girl accusing you of being: "mean", "cruel", "heartless", "you don't love me", "how could you" "You, you, you, you ,you, you, your fault, your fault, you, your fault not mine, it's all your fault".

If you go into things with a negative attitude, negativity is going to follow.

[Untouchable_Fire]

For ages I've heard men (bfs, male friends, etc) saying that women are complicated and difficult to understand. But here's what I don't get - I've pretty much found out that BEING complicated produces better results!

 

I actually think men are more complicated, because men tend to hide emotions, even from themselves.

 

I have a habit of stating whatever I feel and think in a very straightforward manner, complete with logical sequences and analogies. However, I find that the best way to get the bf to listen isn't to just go straight out and say, "Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?" - that makes him unhappy and defensive. Instead, I need to act sad and damsel-in-distress for a while. Then he holds me, tries to make things better. I don't tell him what's wrong. But after a few oblique hints, he finally gets it, and we either talk about it on his initiative or he does something to make it better.

Is it just me, or aren't guys (including my bf) just shooting themselves in the foot here?

 

Elswyth... the difference here is in approach.

 

If I came to you and said... "Look Ahole... you suck and x,y, and z. You need to do exactly as I say to fix it... or your fired". How would that make you feel?

 

Now... in the other scenario... You just see tears.

 

Point is... if you approach him it puts him on the defensive, if you let him approach you its non-accusatory.

[tigressA]

Elswyth... the difference here is in approach.

 

If I came to you and said... "Look Ahole... you suck and x,y, and z. You need to do exactly as I say to fix it... or your fired". How would that make you feel?

 

Now... in the other scenario... You just see tears.

 

Point is... if you approach him it puts him on the defensive, if you let him approach you its non-accusatory.

 

I don't think her approach is very accusatory. I do think she could phrase the "We need to talk" better, rather saying something like "I'd like to discuss something with you". That sounds more constructive. But with regard to the rest of it, she's telling him how SHE feels as a result of something he did, not coming right out and saying he's a jerk for it. For example, saying "I was concerned because you didn't call when you said you would, and I would appreciate it if next time something comes up, you let me know" doesn't sound anything like "I can't believe you didn't call me, *******! What were you doing that you couldn't call?!"

[Star Gazer]

I find that the best way to get the bf to listen isn't to just go straight out and say, "Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?" - that makes him unhappy and defensive.

 

I think your mistake is with the bolded part. You can't assume everyone feels the same way you do.

 

Take out the bolded part, and that's exactly how I'd approach something that was bothering me:

 

"Hey, can we talk about something? I feel/think X because you did/didn't do Y." And then I wait for his response, and then an open, honest dialogue begins.

[welikeincrowds]

"Look, we need to talk about x, y, and z. I feel x, because you did y, which makes me think z. Wouldn't you feel the same way if I did xyz?"

 

This is an argument. If you want to succeed, you must be a good rhetorician.

 

To be listened to at all, you must possess ethos: good will, good sense, and virtue. In other words, you must appear caring, wise, and morally sound. It would behoove you to begin establishing this before you even begin your argument.

 

If you come across too aggressive, you won't be seen as having good will. He'll be put on the defensive, rather than being willing to listen. He must understand before you make the argument that the reason you're arguing is because you want things to be better, both for him and for you. Also, you must demonstrate, in this case, that you're willing to listen and make changes in the same way, because your goal -- in having good will -- is the ultimate improvement of your relationship.

 

For the sake of finishing out the ethos definition, good sense: he believes that you might have good ideas about how to improve the relationship; virtue: he agrees with or admires the way you lead your life in general.

[welikeincrowds]

I think your mistake is with the bolded part. You can't assume everyone feels the same way you do.

 

This is good too. To go back to ethos, making an assumption like this demonstrates that you don't have good sense, and will also put him on the defensive.

 

Not that you're writing a presidential speech here. I don't mean to bog you down in vocabulary. It's just that there is a language for discussing these things -- rhetoric -- and it's not gendered -- being complicated, men are cryptic, etc. This is how people are persuaded to do and believe in things that are not facts, and it has been studied since before Christ was born.

[Jannah]

Good insight OP. You've identified an element of your respective attraction styles and communication dynamics.

 

If you are, instinctively, a straightforward, calm communicator and he is attracted to the hot mess difficult complex type (I'm exaggerating here), either or both of you can alter your behaviors short-term, but, IMO, long term, I'd be cautious. The same applies to you. Understanding and accepting your attraction and communication style and seeing a partner clearly in that regard is elemental to a successful long term partnership. We are all different and no two people are perfectly matched, but it's important IMO to accept our attraction to those differences and reconcile that attraction with what is healthy for our psychology.

 

IMO, this is where living together with him during his schooling will help you see clearly. What you do with that information is up to you. Am I making too much of nothing? Perhaps. However, that is an important part of my psychology, examining the twists and turns of how we think and feel, and a woman needs to find that *attractive* to ever last long-term. She can 'fake' it for awhile, as my now ex-wife did, but truth always wins out. Best to accept truth, whatever it is to you. Good luck

 

Carhill pretty much nailed it.

[Untouchable_Fire]

For example, saying "I was concerned because you didn't call when you said you would, and I would appreciate it if next time something comes up, you let me know" doesn't sound anything like "I can't believe you didn't call me, *******! What were you doing that you couldn't call?!"

 

Actually it's fairly common for a guy who is emotionally invested in you to feel the latter when you say the former. Does that make sense? The problem is that he cares how you feel... and telling him that he made you feel bad is going to make him feel bad. He will express that by being angry with you, or acting nonchalant... or some reaction that fits his personality.

 

I was overly dramatic to make a point in my first post. I wanted her to understand how a guy who cares about her would interpret her words.

 

I'm telling you... guys can be very complex.

 

 

This is an argument. If you want to succeed, you must be a good rhetorician.

 

To be listened to at all, you must possess ethos: good will, good sense, and virtue. In other words, you must appear caring, wise, and morally sound. It would behoove you to begin establishing this before you even begin your argument.

 

If you come across too aggressive, you won't be seen as having good will. He'll be put on the defensive, rather than being willing to listen. He must understand before you make the argument that the reason you're arguing is because you want things to be better, both for him and for you. Also, you must demonstrate, in this case, that you're willing to listen and make changes in the same way, because your goal -- in having good will -- is the ultimate improvement of your relationship.

For the sake of finishing out the ethos definition, good sense: he believes that you might have good ideas about how to improve the relationship; virtue: he agrees with or admires the way you lead your life in general.

 

Your male?

 

On a scale of 1-10 how gay would you consider yourself to be?

[tigressA]

Actually it's fairly common for a guy who is emotionally invested in you to feel the latter when you say the former. Does that make sense? The problem is that he cares how you feel... and telling him that he made you feel bad is going to make him feel bad. He will express that by being angry with you, or acting nonchalant... or some reaction that fits his personality.

 

I was overly dramatic to make a point in my first post. I wanted her to understand how a guy who cares about her would interpret her words.

 

I'm telling you... guys can be very complex.

 

Okay, I didn't think of it that way before. I look back and realize my BF does react in a not-so-good way when I tell him that I'm upset about something he's done or not done. He tells me point-blank that he feels bad about making me feel bad. But at the same time, he doesn't put up with what Elswyth's boyfriend puts up with. So it's like WTF am I supposed to do? Sorry, t/j.

 

Your male?

 

On a scale of 1-10 how gay would you consider yourself to be?

 

Oh come on. That was uncalled for, IMO.

[welikeincrowds]

On a scale of 1-10 how gay would you consider yourself to be?

 

Says the guy that says guys can be ~very complex~ Aw, you're so sweet and sensitive!! What are you trying to tell us, bro?!

 

Also >your

[Pyro]

Your male?

 

On a scale of 1-10 how gay would you consider yourself to be?

 

Assume what you like but is some excellent advice which can and will get you far in the dating world. I live by those standards and I am doing just fine.

 

If the crybabies on here would follow that advice I guarantee there'd be more success stories here.

[OliveOyl]

When a woman brings up "issues" ... a lot of guys have a hard time processing sensitive information quickly and put up barriers to slow down the perceived "assault". (I'm not saying the stated issue is an assault at all, but it gets interpreted that way... "oh gawd, here she goes again.... what did I do wrong THIS time?").

 

I think the reason why the OP's tactic works is not because she is playing games but because she delivers the message in more digestible chunks.

 

I know when I have tried to directly discuss difficult issues with certain partners/men they would get the "deer in headlights" look. Just stating it openly and honestly would be too much, no matter how delicately approached.