Virtual friends, No Contact or Relapse?

[nick.johnstone]

Hello all,

 

I'm not going to bother re-writing my story - in summary I'm the OM and Sarah is the MW and we've been having an on / off affair for a very long time! If you're interested the full story is linked below in my original post back in June. This post however is about one of those moments of serendipity...and my yet again asking for advice.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t236298/

 

So its been three months since I last posted back in July, since I took charge and demanded no contact, since I moved on and started dating again, since I realised I could have a life without Sarah. And I have to admit I was really enjoying it. Don't get me wrong, she was still on my mind and not a day went by when I thought about her at least once but there was no longing, no hurt and no anger especially as she respected my decision and stopped contacting me. Phone numbers, IM, Facebook contacts all deleted. This time would be forever. It was better to have loved and lost and the future was mine for the taking....or something!

 

But then....(!)

 

At the beginning of September I was posted to Glasgow to work on a client site for a week. I live in London so we're talking the other end of the country and somewhere I never usually have to go. On my last night there (Thursday) I was working in the hotel bar when she walked in with another woman and sat down at a table opposite me. She looked breath-taking. My heart actually began to race! But I resisted any urge to make contact and buried my head in my laptop hoping she would notice me...and that she wouldn't.

 

She did. A look of surprise, shock, panic, joy in her face. It would have been childish for me to leave so I just continued working, looking up from time to time, our eyes meeting before one of us looked away. After an hour or so her friend stood up and got into the lift. She waited for five minutes then walked over.

 

She was in town for a friend's wedding and was staying at the same hotel. Conversation was initially tense but I think I actually said 'in all the hotels, in all the cities you had to walk into mine' and she laughed and I laughed and it immediately felt like old times. We sat and talked for a few hours, laughing at the serendipity, what we'd been up to, the bar slowly emptying until we were alone and the lights were dim. Around 1am we stood up to go to bed. We were on the same floor, two rooms apart...and into our own rooms we went.

 

I have to admit I thought about going to her room as I lay in my bed. She obviously had a similar thought as she knocked on my door after 15 minutes. Came in wearing a hotel bathrobe and barefoot. We didn't say a word. I kissed her, undid her robe, she was naked underneath and we had incredibly tender passionate sex. Twice. Afterwards we just lay there. Still not having said a word. Then she got up and said she had to go to her room just in case her husband called her. I asked her if she wanted me to go to her room. She said she didn't. I said okay and she left.

 

I checked out the next morning, spent the day at the client site and then flew home. I spent the weekend trying not to think about what happened...that nothing had changed. On Monday morning she sent me a friend request on the mobile IM. I ignored it for the entire day. I was busy at work and wasn't sure if I wanted to speak to her. But I accepted.

 

She said it was really nice seeing me. That she had missed me. That she still wants me to be a part of her life but she knows that she can't physically see me any more because we end up being intimate and she didn't want to hurt me by going through the Cycle again ie falling in love, feeling guilty, leaving. That she wanted to be "virtual friends" only talking online infrequently. That she wanted her best friend back.

 

It felt childish to say no. So thats where we've been for the last month. And its been "okay" - I've even told her about the girls I've been seeing. But after a month of platonic conversation - increasing in volume on a daily basis. She asked last week if I wanted to meet for lunch. And I went. It was fun. After dessert she looked flustered and said she had to leave. I asked what was wrong. She said if she stayed she knew she'd do something she'd regret. That perhaps it was too soon for meeting but she's glad we're still friends.

 

I'm glad we didn't have sex that day. But I have to admit all those old feelings are returning. Relapse would be so easy.

 

So what do you guys think - ask for NC or maintain a not unpleasant "virtual friendship"? What are the changes of relapse if both of us are trying not to relapse?

Edited October 12, 2010 by nick.johnstone

[whichwayisup]

You are sucked right back in the drama after all that hard work you did.

 

What's the point of VC? To keep 'feelings alive' she gets an ego rush, a heart throb by having you in her life, on HER terms. All the meanwhile, your feelings have rushed back and you only get a "tiny" piece of her? If you think she's worth it, having that little bit of contact online, then do it. BUT, ask yourself why you're settling to get virtual table scraps from her when you could be out and about, dating and meeting women who will love you and not go home to their husbands and kids.

 

You two have an unhealthy dynamic, and you are wasting your life by staying in her life, being the OM.

[nick.johnstone]

The last month has been completely platonic. We haven't talked about "us", there hasn't been any flirtation, conversation has been about the superficial, and as I said I've even been talking about the girls I've been seeing. I'm not the OM in a mental, emotional or physical sense.

 

I know what you mean about being sucked back in....and that really is the last thing I want. But she is a good friend so if it was possible for us to be platonic friends without any risk of relapse both of us getting on with our respective lives then it wouldn't be a bad thing. Perhaps she could even tell her husband that she "bumped into me" and we become open normal friends without any deception.

 

But what I don't know is if thats possible. For two people to just be "friends" so soon after a relationship ends..especially with our track record!

[whichwayisup]

It doesn't matter. You two can't go backwards and be "just" friends. Try it and you'll see. Eventually your feelings will get in the way, it'll just happen. And, put yourselves IN a situation where you can't say "NO", then even more so.

 

I'm not the OM in a mental, emotional or physical sense.

 

But you are. You WERE the OM. Just because xx amount of time has gone by, doesn't mean much. IN her eyes, you are the OM as she is LYING to her H, omitting a friendship with you to him. The friendship isn't good for her marriage and in time, you may compare the women you meet to her and your heart won't be in it, because of HER.

 

Time will tell, but my 2 cents is you're making a mistake by keeping something going with her.

[whichwayisup]

NO, you two cannot be "platonic friends" Ever.

 

Around 1am we stood up to go to bed. We were on the same floor, two rooms apart...and into our own rooms we went.

 

I have to admit I thought about going to her room as I lay in my bed. She obviously had a similar thought as she knocked on my door after 15 minutes. Came in wearing a hotel bathrobe and barefoot. We didn't say a word. I kissed her, undid her robe, she was naked underneath and we had incredibly tender passionate sex. Twice.

 

The history there and the deceiving that went on. How could you look her husband in the eye, try to befriend him, shake his hand knowing that not too long ago you had sex with his wife and in the past HAD an affair with her too!

 

Just ain't right and it's lie you two will have to keep from him if you try to include him in the friendship. don't do it.

[Silly_Girl]

What a shame Nick. I remember your thread. This is regression. If she has a presence 'in your life you are still 'in' the affair, the ramifications if which aren't clear to you now but sure as hell will be in a year or two. I'm cross with her for using you, and cross with you for allowing her to!

[silverplanets]

Hello all,

 

I'm not going to bother re-writing my story - in summary I'm the OM and Sarah is the MW and we've been having an on / off affair for a very long time! If you're interested the full story is linked below in my original post back in June. This post however is about one of those moments of serendipity...and my yet again asking for advice.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t236298/

 

So its been three months since I last posted back in July, since I took charge and demanded no contact, since I moved on and started dating again, since I realised I could have a life without Sarah. And I have to admit I was really enjoying it. Don't get me wrong, she was still on my mind and not a day went by when I thought about her at least once but there was no longing, no hurt and no anger especially as she respected my decision and stopped contacting me. Phone numbers, IM, Facebook contacts all deleted. This time would be forever. It was better to have loved and lost and the future was mine for the taking....or something!

 

Three months was really good Nick .... you should be proud of your control and focus. I'm glad you noticed that the hurt, longing, anger etc had at least subsided or dulled to a degree ....

 

because if you keep going (I am now over 18 months, can't remember exact number) and I can tell you they just keep on subsiding :-)

 

But then....(!)

yes .....????

 

At the beginning of September I was posted to Glasgow to work on a client site for a week. I live in London so we're talking the other end of the country and somewhere I never usually have to go. On my last night there (Thursday) I was working in the hotel bar when she walked in with another woman and sat down at a table opposite me. She looked breath-taking. My heart actually began to race! But I resisted any urge to make contact and buried my head in my laptop hoping she would notice me...and that she wouldn't.

If this was my ixMW i'd query the accidental nature of it. She arranged 40th birthday parties for friends just to get near to where I lived etc so she could appear by suprise ...

 

still, life sometimes does bring up these genuine co-incidences ...

 

 

She did. A look of surprise, shock, panic, joy in her face. It would have been childish for me to leave so I just continued working, looking up from time to time, our eyes meeting before one of us looked away. After an hour or so her friend stood up and got into the lift. She waited for five minutes then walked over.

 

She was in town for a friend's wedding and was staying at the same hotel. Conversation was initially tense but I think I actually said 'in all the hotels, in all the cities you had to walk into mine' and she laughed and I laughed and it immediately felt like old times. We sat and talked for a few hours, laughing at the serendipity, what we'd been up to, the bar slowly emptying until we were alone and the lights were dim. Around 1am we stood up to go to bed. We were on the same floor, two rooms apart...and into our own rooms we went.

Yup ... we all know where this is going .. not judging, just been there :)

 

I have to admit I thought about going to her room as I lay in my bed. She obviously had a similar thought as she knocked on my door after 15 minutes. Came in wearing a hotel bathrobe and barefoot. We didn't say a word. I kissed her, undid her robe, she was naked underneath and we had incredibly tender passionate sex. Twice. Afterwards we just lay there. Still not having said a word. Then she got up and said she had to go to her room just in case her husband called her. I asked her if she wanted me to go to her room. She said she didn't. I said okay and she left.

OK, I know you wanted it as well, but just looking at it from her point of view she satisfied her need (be it physical or just to gain validation from someone wanting her ... etc) and then immediately laid down her boundary ...

 

So SHE was in control

 

 

I checked out the next morning, spent the day at the client site and then flew home. I spent the weekend trying not to think about what happened...that nothing had changed. On Monday morning she sent me a friend request on the mobile IM. I ignored it for the entire day. I was busy at work and wasn't sure if I wanted to speak to her. But I accepted.

And now she's IM'ing you at HER control ...

 

 

She said it was really nice seeing me. That she had missed me. That she still wants me to be a part of her life but she knows that she can't physically see me any more because we end up being intimate and she didn't want to hurt me by going through the Cycle again ie falling in love, feeling guilty, leaving. That she wanted to be "virtual friends" only talking online infrequently. That she wanted her best friend back.

And now here are a whole load more of HER boundaries ... (albeit cleverly presented as "looking after your needs")

 

She's got her sex so she doesn't want that (for now) .. what she wants now is that oh so wonderful cheerleader, lap it all up, constant sympathy one man Sarah fan club ...

 

It felt childish to say no.

And you've just given it to her ... :)

 

So thats where we've been for the last month. And its been "okay" - I've even told her about the girls I've been seeing. But after a month of platonic conversation - increasing in volume on a daily basis. She asked last week if I wanted to meet for lunch. And I went. It was fun. After dessert she looked flustered and said she had to leave. I asked what was wrong. She said if she stayed she knew she'd do something she'd regret. That perhaps it was too soon for meeting but she's glad we're still friends.

She wants sex again basically (it's been over a month since the last time with you) ... but it's so much better to build up the tension ...

 

I'm glad we didn't have sex that day. But I have to admit all those old feelings are returning. Relapse would be so easy.

Don't worry, you'll be having sex soon enough ... right now she's building up the tension again after the last time, and it's fun to have that tension and drama to offset what's missing in side of her/her marriage ... but eventually she will take what she wants ...

 

then she will drop it again ...

 

So what do you guys think - ask for NC or maintain a not unpleasant "virtual friendship"? What are the changes of relapse if both of us are trying not to relapse?

Nick,

 

I've tried not to be too harsh above, but also tried to be honest about how it looks, since I remember your story ....

 

It's perfectly understandable that you still have feelings for her, but it looks to me like it's still a case that you have no boundaries and she has definate ones.

 

She is not going to relax her boundaries, but she's quite happy to make use of your life to satisfy her needs outside of those boundaries.

 

I don't think anything has changed .. your question for yourself is still what does Nick want and what are Nick's boundaries in life?

 

Does Nick want someone full time ... in which case, she either can or cannot be that person for you ... Does Nick want someone he can love openly and honestly .... etc etc

 

There is one slight difference that I can see though .. she knows this time that she is not going to leave her H and KNOWS it's a dead end situation as far as a relationship with you goes.

 

yet ...she still wants you to dedicate your "love/devotion/attention" to her ...

 

So it sounds like her getting her needs met is more important than you having a chance of a proper relationship in your life ...

 

....

 

So know you know how much she values YOU and YOUR life ...

 

.. so I guess the question is how much do YOU value you and your life?

 

Does that make sense????

 

Chris

 

ps: they ALWAYS come back (by "accident" or on purpose) ... that's in their "control" .. whether you let them get a hold on your life again .. that's in YOUR control

ps2: obviously if you decide your life purpose is to be an extra on her marriage then that's your right to decide ... but at least decide that is what you WANT for yourself ...

 

If, though, what you WANT is not on offer then why accept what you DON'T want????

 

[Circular]

Hey Nick! Welcome back. I was just thinking about you the other day as I was curious how you were doing based on us both being in NC and all. And, you can probably imagine I read your post here with my jaw agape. I suppose that's an odd coincidence in itself.

 

When I read your story I'm a little bit more disturbed by how coincidental it is. I'm not a skeptic per se, but the odds of something like that happening are very very very very slim. Not saying your not telling it like it is, more I would be curious as to if she had anyway of knowing where you'd be? I say this because in our normal lives, even for those of us that work in big companies the odds of us running into a co-worker are even very low. It's very improbable.

 

Firstly, it's great to hear that you were able to move on and start dating and basically accept that your future with Sarah was a non-starter. Going through 3 months of NC is hard, but you did it! and made a lot of progress on the way.

 

I think though that this is a setback for you. You have to make a hard decision. It's obvious that Sarah wants to be in your life and wants you in her life. Thing is, if you are in each others lives then it has to be platonic, and it has to not escalate beyond normal chit-chat. Her wanting to have lunch with you and dropping innuendo about having to leave because she feels she might do something she'll regret is her saying "I still want you to know that I might show up at another hotel and want you to drop your trousers at a moments notice", in other words, maybe you've moved on but she still has 'plans' for you.

 

Here's the tough dilemma, it's the same one I find myself in. When I walked out of my relationship with my xAP I also left behind someone who was a good friend. There's not a day that goes by that I'm not somehow reminded of that, we just shared a lot of things in common so it's not uncommon for me to read something and think 'oh, you know who'd like this'. That feeling sucks. The question then is, can you maintain strictly a friendship? You two both know a lot of personal information about each other. You might be having light conversation now, but maybe something wrong goes on in her life and she reaches out to you because you know her so well, suddenly you're talking her through something emotional that could start to stir those deeper feelings for both of you because you've had that deeper connection before. It seems and will feel innocent at first, but there's this human nature in all of us to gravitate towards familiarity and things that bring us comfort. I think you need to think about that.

 

My other thought is that it has only been 3 months. I thought you once said you had been on/off NC with her for periods of 2 years? Or did I mis-understand that from your posts a few months ago? I guess my concern is, will this disrupt your dating life? Will you date but never find that 'right fit' because she's clouding the water? If she's always around, and available via IM (I've grown to loathe IM by the way for this very reason) are you strong enough not to think 'Itd be nice to meet someone that I could talk to so easily as I did Sarah'? Won't that be kinda always on your mind? I mean, even as an MM with lots of friends on both sides I still find myself feeling like I'm 'missing' something in my conversations.

 

Just food for thought...But, great to hear from you again and quite the story to boot.

[nick.johnstone]

Hello guys...really lovely to here from you all! Apologies for vanishing these last three months; I suppose I had an enough moment and wanted to just stop thinking / analysing and just start living a life that didn't revolve around Sarah. Thank you all for your encouragement for making 3 months NC...I was actually thinking that it was much easier this time compared to our large 2 year hiatus, and because my feelings for her haven't diminished I attribute that all the great advice you gave me.

 

The truth is I am (eventually fine) during periods of NC but fold the second she comes back...which she always does even when she says she won't. This time however I do believe it was a genuine coincidence - the hotel I was staying in was randomly booked by someone from my office and from what I gather her room was booked by the wedding party. Its just these coincidences which make the silly romantic in me thing there is an element of fate and destiny at play which I know is dangerous.

 

I think you're also right that two people who have been so close probably won't stay platonic friends regardless of good intentions. We are talking again every day via IM but always light and breezy and superficial. I think I noticed that this morning: I had a very good third date last night with a girl from work; this morning Sarah messaged me to ask how my date went. I told her i had a really enjoyable evening. Sarah immediately asked me if I wanted to meet at lunch today. I wouldn't have minded but I was really busy so said no. She then was being ultra nice for the rest of the day and suggesting days she was next free to meet. I know if we meet we would end up having sex...I think you're right that she likes to build up the tension which usually takes a month...another take on women and their monthly cycles I suppose!

 

So I've just been ignoring her messages this afternoon and evening. Because what I want is to move on with my life...just as I was those three months....and I'm happy to have someone who knows me as a friend - virtual, in person etc - but as long as its platonic. Now obviously it takes two to tango. And f@ck. So I'm equally to blame.

 

But but but I've also realised I couldn't be "open" friends with her because I think I'm too ashamed to really see her husband. And I'm too old to have a "secret" friendship. And (this is the really screwy one) I'd rather she was in my life as a "controlled" platonic friend because if she leaves we always end up having sex when she comes back....but if she stays as a controlled virtual friends I can ensure things remain platonic.

 

Perhaps anyway!

[silverplanets]

Hello guys...really lovely to here from you all! Apologies for vanishing these last three months; I suppose I had an enough moment and wanted to just stop thinking / analysing and just start living a life that didn't revolve around Sarah. Thank you all for your encouragement for making 3 months NC...I was actually thinking that it was much easier this time compared to our large 2 year hiatus, and because my feelings for her haven't diminished I attribute that all the great advice you gave me.

 

The truth is I am (eventually fine) during periods of NC but fold the second she comes back...which she always does even when she says she won't. This time however I do believe it was a genuine coincidence - the hotel I was staying in was randomly booked by someone from my office and from what I gather her room was booked by the wedding party. Its just these coincidences which make the silly romantic in me thing there is an element of fate and destiny at play which I know is dangerous.

 

I think you're also right that two people who have been so close probably won't stay platonic friends regardless of good intentions. We are talking again every day via IM but always light and breezy and superficial. I think I noticed that this morning: I had a very good third date last night with a girl from work; this morning Sarah messaged me to ask how my date went. I told her i had a really enjoyable evening. Sarah immediately asked me if I wanted to meet at lunch today. I wouldn't have minded but I was really busy so said no. She then was being ultra nice for the rest of the day and suggesting days she was next free to meet. I know if we meet we would end up having sex...I think you're right that she likes to build up the tension which usually takes a month...another take on women and their monthly cycles I suppose!

 

So I've just been ignoring her messages this afternoon and evening. Because what I want is to move on with my life...just as I was those three months....and I'm happy to have someone who knows me as a friend - virtual, in person etc - but as long as its platonic. Now obviously it takes two to tango. And f@ck. So I'm equally to blame.

 

But but but I've also realised I couldn't be "open" friends with her because I think I'm too ashamed to really see her husband. And I'm too old to have a "secret" friendship. And (this is the really screwy one) I'd rather she was in my life as a "controlled" platonic friend because if she leaves we always end up having sex when she comes back....but if she stays as a controlled virtual friends I can ensure things remain platonic.

 

Perhaps anyway!

 

Sounds to me a bit like you're both playing a game with each other ...

 

- she's playing you for sexual validation, using your feelings for her as a bait

- you're playing her for friendship validation, using her need for sexual validation as a bait

 

It's not a matter of fate, it's a matter of you making a daily choice to play this game ...

 

and at some level that choice must be working for you.

 

A wild guess would be it distracts from something else that you're not quite happy with ... have you thought of speaking to a counsellor about why something inside you wants this game?

 

be safe and hope this reads the right way .. just trying to generate thought/reflect honestly what comes across ...

 

Chris

[Fieldsofgold]

I'm sorry but the comment at lunch that she needed to leave before she did something foolish - that's just not so subtle "I want you, you turn me on, think about that tonight (and hoping it turns you on)!"

 

I don't think there is any A.N.Y. way you can be platonic friends. First of all, a platonic friend would NEVER have said the above! I think there are a million reasons why it is bad for you. If you don't want your emotions toyed with, if you don't want to be her side piece forever, her marital bandaid, please move on.

 

I wish you the best.

[Circular]

I think that's a tricky thing. Even though you're saying you want to keep it platonic at the same time you know that it could turn quickly sexual. I mean, you said if you went to lunch it might turn into sex. Does she pump you up with Viagra and then taser you? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you seem to be readily willing to relinquish control over to her. I know from my own experience that giving up control is something I think I've done many times to avoid losing something.

 

Here's what I see happening. She's going to be really nice to you and coax you over time to go to lunch. We ALL know that meeting in person, if you're really connected with that person, takes those little feelings and amplifies them significantly. Bet she wears something really really nice and knows it'll entice you as well. Last time I saw my xAP at lunch she looked stunning, almost the best I'd ever seen her dress, that image is somewhat fused into my brain now. Thing is, she's playing you up. She wants you. The question is, can you be strong enough to keep her at a good distance so that she doesn't gain control over you.

 

The IM thing is also dangerous. All it takes are one or two conversations where both of you have time to talk and there's a lot to talk about. I remember when xAP was pulling away at times, conversations were light, emotionless, etc... probably similar to the ones you're having. Then we'd wind up having a long conversation, and we'd let our guard down and both of us would realize how much we missed talking to each other the 'old' way that just adds fuel to the fire. Next thing she saying 'we should get together for lunch...' and there you are again.

 

Oh, BTW Nick, you're a very good writer. You should write short stories or something. And, no I'm not inferring this is a story, you just have a style that reads well.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Circular

[Fieldsofgold]

I think that's a tricky thing. Even though you're saying you want to keep it platonic at the same time you know that it could turn quickly sexual. I mean, you said if you went to lunch it might turn into sex. Does she pump you up with Viagra and then taser you? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you seem to be readily willing to relinquish control over to her. I know from my own experience that giving up control is something I think I've done many times to avoid losing something.

 

Here's what I see happening. She's going to be really nice to you and coax you over time to go to lunch. We ALL know that meeting in person, if you're really connected with that person, takes those little feelings and amplifies them significantly. Bet she wears something really really nice and knows it'll entice you as well. Last time I saw my xAP at lunch she looked stunning, almost the best I'd ever seen her dress, that image is somewhat fused into my brain now. Thing is, she's playing you up. She wants you. The question is, can you be strong enough to keep her at a good distance so that she doesn't gain control over you.

 

The IM thing is also dangerous. All it takes are one or two conversations where both of you have time to talk and there's a lot to talk about. I remember when xAP was pulling away at times, conversations were light, emotionless, etc... probably similar to the ones you're having. Then we'd wind up having a long conversation, and we'd let our guard down and both of us would realize how much we missed talking to each other the 'old' way that just adds fuel to the fire. Next thing she saying 'we should get together for lunch...' and there you are again.

 

Oh, BTW Nick, you're a very good writer. You should write short stories or something. And, no I'm not inferring this is a story, you just have a style that reads well.

 

Circular is right. Those long conversations remind you what a connection you have. And meeting for lunch, looking stunning. A touch of nice fragrance, too, not too much, and a quick, friendly hug, leaving a bit of fragrance behind as a reminder. Us ladies have all sorts of little tricks, and we know what we are

doing.

 

I fear for you.

[Circular]

Circular is right. Those long conversations remind you what a connection you have. And meeting for lunch, looking stunning. A touch of nice fragrance, too, not too much, and a quick, friendly hug, leaving a bit of fragrance behind as a reminder. Us ladies have all sorts of little tricks, and we know what we are

doing.

 

I fear for you.

 

Yea, y'all are E V I L that way and it does work. Especially the fragrance thing, that's killer. Admittedly as a male I'm totally oblivious to all these things I only know the cumulative effect leaves long lasting memories that require many bottles of wine.

[nick.johnstone]

Circular is right. Those long conversations remind you what a connection you have. And meeting for lunch, looking stunning. A touch of nice fragrance, too, not too much, and a quick, friendly hug, leaving a bit of fragrance behind as a reminder. Us ladies have all sorts of little tricks, and we know what we are

doing.

 

I fear for you.

 

But I know this. I know when she asked for lunch, or was keen to meet she'd want sex which is why I didn't agree to see her. And I know she knows exactly what to wear to wear to make me melt, which fragrance ensnares my senses, and just how to look at me to make me aroused and desperate to have her where-ever we are.

 

But surely if I can be strong enough not to react. Strong enough to control the situation she'll eventually give up and accept being platonic friends? Surely you wouldn't persist for ever?

 

And I don't think I'm using her for "friendship validation" (though I did just question if that was the case) but actually seeing if someone who is important to me could be a friend. An amicable ex as you see in films! I think I can...if she can't then its her loss. I really do however not want to have sex with her, be the OM. I do want normal relationships and to get on with my life.

 

Perhaps I could write a short story as you suggested...perhaps about this..well they always say write about what you know!

[Fieldsofgold]

Yea, y'all are E V I L that way and it does work. Especially the fragrance thing, that's killer. Admittedly as a male I'm totally oblivious to all these things I only know the cumulative effect leaves long lasting memories that require many bottles of wine.

 

We know. That's why we do it.

 

Nick, I don't think some people ever tire of the thrill/challenge of trying to get to you. My guess is that if you ever did wear her down where she KNEW she could no longer stir you, she would no longer be interested in you.

 

I had read your original post, although I dont think I commented much back then. I have to say, as long as you two have been at it, I think she is addicted to the ego strokes she gets from her "effects" on you. I think once that is gone, she would not care about the friendship. Just my honest opinion.

 

But why put yourself through the trouble, the drama, of trying to break that wild horse? Only to find out it was the thrill of power and control over you that kept her attached to you, not a meaningful friendship.

 

Sorry, but that is how it looks to me.

[nick.johnstone]

Now that would be depressing - to have actual confirmation that all the hours of conversation, talks of strong friendship, soul mates, unbreakable bonds etc were simply lies...no more than a mechanism to justify the sex, and without it she'd lose interest. To be honest that really isn't something I can even contemplate right now as it would make a mockery of everything I've ever felt...yet the curious side of me would now would love to know the answer to that question.

[MorningCoffee]

But I know this. I know when she asked for lunch, or was keen to meet she'd want sex which is why I didn't agree to see her. And I know she knows exactly what to wear to wear to make me melt, which fragrance ensnares my senses, and just how to look at me to make me aroused and desperate to have her where-ever we are.

 

But surely if I can be strong enough not to react. Strong enough to control the situation she'll eventually give up and accept being platonic friends? Surely you wouldn't persist for ever?

 

And I don't think I'm using her for "friendship validation" (though I did just question if that was the case) but actually seeing if someone who is important to me could be a friend. An amicable ex as you see in films! I think I can...if she can't then its her loss. I really do however not want to have sex with her, be the OM. I do want normal relationships and to get on with my life.

 

Perhaps I could write a short story as you suggested...perhaps about this..well they always say write about what you know!

 

If I imagine myself in your sitch, I know I would not be able to keep it platonic with Sarah, and I would thus probably completely blow it with the woman with whom I had just enjoyed a very nice third date.

 

Maybe but that's just me, but . . .

[Circular]

If I imagine myself in your sitch, I know I would not be able to keep it platonic with Sarah, and I would thus probably completely blow it with the woman with whom I had just enjoyed a very nice third date.

 

Maybe but that's just me, but . . .

 

 

Yea, that's how I feel also. If my xAP said "lets have lunch" and started with the innuendo and all and was chatting me up on IM. Well, truth is deep down I know how I feel about her and I'd start breaking down pretty quickly.

 

Tension, such a magical thing...

[UntoldStory]

Now that would be depressing - to have actual confirmation that all the hours of conversation, talks of strong friendship, soul mates, unbreakable bonds etc were simply lies...no more than a mechanism to justify the sex, and without it she'd lose interest. To be honest that really isn't something I can even contemplate right now as it would make a mockery of everything I've ever felt...yet the curious side of me would now would love to know the answer to that question.

 

I don't know Sarah but I wouldn't assume it's all about the sex. My EMR was essentially all long distance, and we went through the same dynamic. In my case, it's totally about the connection, the intimacy that I don't have elsewhere in my life.

[nick.johnstone]

You know what's even more magical than tension? No tension. You know what's even more enjoyable than sneaking around? Not sneaking around. You know what's even more enjoyable than waiting for someone to call you because you can't call them? Just being able to call someone! I really have no desire to fall back into that cycle or let Sarah ruin any chances I might have to have a normal relationship.

 

Its so easy to demonise her and say it was just about the sex for her...but I just don't think it was. I'm not apologising on her behalf (or mine), and I'm not saying it won't be easy or that I won't be tempted.

 

I guess what I'm wondering if you could all have your MM/MW/OM/OW back in your life as a friend without any drama, slip ups...just platonic friendship with someone you loved (or still love) then would you try to make that work...regardless of how insane and risky it was. Especially if it did prove one way or another why she was there in the first place.

 

The worst case scenario you end up having sex again...but thats all it would be...sex...not a desire to be in a relationship. Yes there would be mixed emotions but I can't imagine I'd want to get into a relationship again after having been in and out of one so many many many times before.

[UntoldStory]

I guess what I'm wondering if you could all have your MM/MW/OM/OW back in your life as a friend without any drama, slip ups...just platonic friendship with someone you loved (or still love) then would you try to make that work...regardless of how insane and risky it was.

 

At this moment, yes. I would like to reset the clock to one year ago and I would like to acknowledge the feelings with my AP but not go there. I would like to keep it just at that point, in all its glory, with all the open communication and joy and tension that goes with it. We would laugh and talk about all the stuff we have in common and it would be beautiful.

 

Unfortunately, I know we'd last about 20 mins before we were sexting our fingers to the bone (no pun intended). So I guess what I'm saying is, it's doomed.

[Circular]

I guess what I'm wondering if you could all have your MM/MW/OM/OW back in your life as a friend without any drama, slip ups...just platonic friendship with someone you loved (or still love) then would you try to make that work...regardless of how insane and risky it was. Especially if it did prove one way or another why she was there in the first place.

 

The worst case scenario you end up having sex again...but thats all it would be...sex...not a desire to be in a relationship. Yes there would be mixed emotions but I can't imagine I'd want to get into a relationship again after having been in and out of one so many many many times before.

 

To your first paragraph, yes, I would in a heartbeat.

 

To your second, maybe that's all it would be to you...but what would it mean to her? And, that Oxytocin has a way of driving us in unpredictable directions.

[Fieldsofgold]

Its so easy to demonise her and say it was just about the sex for her...but I just don't think it was. I'm not apologising on her behalf (or mine), and I'm not saying it won't be easy or that I won't be tempted.

 

I don't think it is just about the sex. I think it is about the power to make you desire her, the power to make you love her and want her. The knowing that you are addicted to her, and she is your drug.