How to make the break from spouses?

[Silly_Girl]

Something that I think most BS would appreciate in the end even if at first it hurts like hell.

 

Really? Truly? If they're leaving, they're leaving. I thought the consensus (across the board) was that the existing relationship should be dealt with by the participants only. i.e. each husband and wife deals with their set-up. After all, they met, married, built a life over many years.

 

I'm sure I'd want the answers from my spouse about OUR relationship and possibly wouldn't want to muddy the waters with the detail of someone else's marriage.

[Trimmer]

I would like to add that you do not have to disclose the affair to your spouses if you are leaving. There really is no reason to add salt to the wounds.

The common rationalization for not owning - or owning up to - your actions in a marriage.

 

As if your instantaneous stonewalling will not "add salt to their wounds". As if their eventual discovery - on their own - of the reasons for your departure will not "add salt to their wounds."

 

The main "reason" not to be truthful is to make it easier for you to skip town before their emotional storm hits full force. I understand that, but if you're not going to be truthful with your spouse as you leave, at least be honest with yourself, and own the real reason you are stonewalling.

 

Now to the OP an earnest, and I hope helpful, piece of advice - as a former BS, I do agree with Tommy Girl on one point: if your decision is final, make it clear to your spouse that it's final. For all the crap my ex put me through, for all her dishonesty in other areas, the one thing I appreciate about the way she left me was that she made it clear and unambiguous that she didn't love me any more, that this wasn't going to change, and that her decision was final. Yes, it hurt like hell, but that aspect of her leaving was the best it could have been - she wouldn't have helped me any by being vague or making false promises to "try" or "think about it" or anything like that.

 

In effect, this is just a specific applications of the advice to be truthful: if your decision is made and is final, make that clear and don't deceive your spouse with lies or half-truths to make your life easier in the short term.

 

If you have made up your mind to leave, then there is no reason to disclose the affair, as it will simply hurt your spouses more and will cause you added difficulties in your pending divorce.

Yes, truth in a divorce proceeding usually works against one or the other of the participants. Control the truth, and you control the proceedings.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Trimmer

[Trimmer]

Hey, just another question, maybe I missed it: do either of you have children?

[woinlove]

Yes, Tommy Girl's advice and the book she is referring to are meant for people who want to protect their own self-interest and honesty or how they treat others is not their highest priority.

 

I know a couple people who left their marriages during/after affairs, who went out of their way to be generous during the divorce proceedings rather than trying to control things to their advantage. Perhaps part of this was because they still cared about their soon to be ex's, but it seemed to me that it was mostly for themselves. It made them feel better to try to act in a way that they saw as honorable in a situation where they knew not all their actions were honorable. It is difficult to put a dollar figure on feelings of self-worth, but I think it is worth a lot to some people, including to some people who get involved in affairs. If Carrie is one of these people, then the best advice is to be honest starting right now if you know what you want. Don't delay honesty and try to be generous in matters which are not going to interfere with you ending up with the partner you want. And honesty includes not giving false hope as already mentioned.

[Samantha0905]

Something that I think most BS would appreciate in the end even if at first it hurts like hell.

 

Really? Truly? If they're leaving, they're leaving. I thought the consensus (across the board) was that the existing relationship should be dealt with by the participants only. i.e. each husband and wife deals with their set-up. After all, they met, married, built a life over many years.

 

I'm sure I'd want the answers from my spouse about OUR relationship and possibly wouldn't want to muddy the waters with the detail of someone else's marriage.

 

Yeah -- really and truly. If they are leaving and are truly interested in being completely honest with and care for their spouses -- why not? It's going to hurt like Hell regardless for the betrayed spouses, so why not "man up" and put it out there in as honest a fashion as possible?

 

If you truly are dedicated to each other and want to walk off to forge a life together, what's wrong with being totally honest to the betrayed spouses? It would be the truth, wouldn't it?

 

If your spouse is just telling you, he's liable to hide a lot of the details. If he's right there in front of you with his new love -- he's kind of between a rock and a hard place and going to have to say what's really going on without glossing things over. He's also in between a rock and a hard place with his new love also -- because Lord knows what falsehoods have been shared there also. It would be an interesting meeting.

[bentnotbroken]

Really? Truly? If they're leaving, they're leaving. I thought the consensus (across the board) was that the existing relationship should be dealt with by the participants only. i.e. each husband and wife deals with their set-up. After all, they met, married, built a life over many years.

 

I'm sure I'd want the answers from my spouse about OUR relationship and possibly wouldn't want to muddy the waters with the detail of someone else's marriage.

 

 

And if you are leaving then there shouldn't be a problem with you pretending to be the your chronological age and acting the way it one should have in the first place. I don't necessarily live my life according to the consensus of others. If I did, I would be screwing around with someone else's spouse too.

[pureinheart]

Okay, I've been hung out to dry here in the two or three posts I've made, and I understand it. I expect more harsh words, but I wouldn't be here if I didn't appreciate the brutal honesty.

 

Without getting into details, MM and I are at the point where we're trying to figure out how to make the break from our marriages. We've accepted that this will be a lengthy and incredibly painful process, and I know I have accepted that in the end, we may end up apart (worst-case scenario) after all the heartache we're causing others, and probably one another to boot. Our spouses are amazing people (despite the issues we have in our respective relationships) and this is going to be horrible.

 

But we decided we can't keep living a lie. We're going to break it to them. One or both of our spouses may decide it's still worth it (furthering our guilt) and fight for the relationship. We're fully aware of the consequences, but neither of us likes living a lie.

 

Slam me if you choose to do so (I know some of you cannot wait to impart the horror stories or anger towards me being an OW), and I'll deal with it. But it would also be nice to hear from anyone who was an OW/OM who was also married or in a committed relationship who managed to make the new relationship work.

 

At least now we're dealing with this honestly.

 

I can't remember your posts/threads, although I was really shocked to hear your OP...wow

 

You should not have had to go through that...I'm really glad you didn't get scared off because there are some really cool people that frequent this forum.

 

I don't think any of my experiences can help you, I think it's good that your going in the direction that you are and I'm glad you guys have decided to do it together. ExDM and I did everything together and it made things much easier. I hope you two can be more supportive of each other, as we were not...but we hung in there regardless.

 

Life is too short....love like you've never been hurt before...most can't do that and end up lonely, miserable people...

[pureinheart]

Really? Truly? If they're leaving, they're leaving. I thought the consensus (across the board) was that the existing relationship should be dealt with by the participants only. i.e. each husband and wife deals with their set-up. After all, they met, married, built a life over many years.

 

I'm sure I'd want the answers from my spouse about OUR relationship and possibly wouldn't want to muddy the waters with the detail of someone else's marriage.

 

Hi SG, I've only read the OP and yours...I certainly would not want a meeting with all four parties and then to be told it's over in front of anyone. That is a privite matter between the two M'ed people.

[Silly_Girl]

Yeah -- really and truly. If they are leaving and are truly interested in being completely honest with and care for their spouses -- why not? It's going to hurt like Hell regardless for the betrayed spouses, so why not "man up" and put it out there in as honest a fashion as possible?

 

If you truly are dedicated to each other and want to walk off to forge a life together, what's wrong with being totally honest to the betrayed spouses? It would be the truth, wouldn't it?

 

If your spouse is just telling you, he's liable to hide a lot of the details. If he's right there in front of you with his new love -- he's kind of between a rock and a hard place and going to have to say what's really going on without glossing things over. He's also in between a rock and a hard place with his new love also -- because Lord knows what falsehoods have been shared there also. It would be an interesting meeting.

 

And if you are leaving then there shouldn't be a problem with you pretending to be the your chronological age and acting the way it one should have in the first place. I don't necessarily live my life according to the consensus of others. If I did, I would be screwing around with someone else's spouse too.

 

See your points. And I wasn't advocating lying about the cause of the split. Just that a Springer-style showdown wouldn't work for me. My initial beef would be with my husband. I'd then want some control over the pace and way I learn things, not some sort of baptism of fire where I'm bombarded with info I may not be ready for just so the cheating partners can soothe their conscience.

[woinlove]

Hi SG, I've only read the OP and yours...I certainly would not want a meeting with all four parties and then to be told it's over in front of anyone. That is a privite matter between the two M'ed people.

 

I agree. Your spouses should hear it directly from their spouse with only their spouse present. If they want to meet their "friend" later, they can. But usually when a friend also betrays you in this way, that's it and the friendship dies quickly. Marriage is different, and the spouse still may hold out hope if you leave that door open. You should kill that hope if you know you want to be with your new lover.

[woinlove]

The book was written by a woman who is herself a former Betrayed Wife and has several degrees in the field of Psychology. She does not advocate for outing the affair as she says that to do so is for the sole benefit of alieviating guilt for the betraying spouse, not for the healing of the betrayed. A good point, I think. It serves no useful purpose unless it is to your own benefit to do so.

 

If you are going to end the relationship, end the relationship. Don't bludgeon your partner with the affair stick on your way out. There simply is no reason to do so.

 

I don't think much of her book or advice. However, I doubt that even she would advocate not telling in this case.

 

Since in this case, they are all friends and part of a larger group of friends that has unknowingly facilitated their time together, I don't see how their spouses will not learn the truth one way or another if they leave their marriages, unless these two go into hiding for a year or so and pretend they have no relationship to their group of friends. Even if these two left the county forever, their friends would put 2+2 together.

 

Or do you have some idea of how they could pull that off? Maybe there is some way I haven't thought of.

[bestplayer]

The book was written by a woman who is herself a former Betrayed Wife and has several degrees in the field of Psychology. She does not advocate for outing the affair as she says that to do so is for the sole benefit of alieviating guilt for the betraying spouse, not for the healing of the betrayed. A good point, I think. It serves no useful purpose unless it is to your own benefit to do so.

 

If you are going to end the relationship, end the relationship. Don't bludgeon your partner with the affair stick on your way out. There simply is no reason to do so.

 

and manage to keep your image clean so that you dont have to accept resposibility for your actions . wise idea .

[woinlove]

I am not saying they will forever be able to deny the relationship. But that simply in the heat of leaving, there is no reason other than to alieviate their own guilt, to tell. It only muddies the waters. They should be leaving their marriages based upon the merits, or lack thereof, of the marriage. Not FOR each other. So rather than to get into a long debate/argument/false reconcilliation attempt, it is best to simply say that they are leaving because the relationship no longer works for them. Simple, honest, and least painful for everyone.

 

Simple, maybe. Honest or least painful, no. Lies of omission are still dishonest.

 

And pain? Let's go through your scenario. The two lovers each tell their spouses it simply isn't working, there's no more to it than that. Simple. Then their spouses turn to their friend, only to learn that their friend is going through EXACTLY the same thing, with the friend/spouse suddenly being told their marriage simply isn't working anymore either. Hey, maybe Carrie and the OM could stagger their end-of-marriage speeches by a week or so, to throw the spouses off. But, a week, a month, the friends are going to put 2+2 together and wonder why the two marriages suddenly stopped working at the same time. Then they, or one of their larger group of friends see the 2 lovers together, and, hmmm, all makes sense. Yeah, I'm sure the 2 left spouses will think, well at least our spouses were honest and told us it just wasn't working any more.

 

Again, maybe I don't understand what you have in mind and how it could work. If so, please explain. Also, as far as being able to separate leaving the M and the A, you might go back to reading what Carrie posted in August about how she would not change anything about her M, it worked for her, and she would not leave her H. I think she would need some more time, sans lover, to be able to separate these two.

[Trimmer]

Well, all I can say is that I feel healthy and peaceful about the end of our marriage, in part because I maintained some level of respect for my now-exW. And in spite of what she did, the places where I hold respect for her are specifically those where she owned what she did and was honest and clear with me about what was going on. The places where I have less respect for her, and which damaged both of us, I think, were those where she deceived me to try to hide things that eventually came out - probably to "make things easier" in the short term.

 

I agree with this:

 

They should be leaving their marriages based upon the merits, or lack thereof, of the marriage. Not FOR each other. So rather than to get into a long debate/argument/false reconcilliation attempt...

I do agree that it is not worth getting into a long debate/negotiation/etc. because all of these promote false hope in the "left" spouse.

 

However, I don't agree that the best way to accomplish this is:

 

...to simply say that they are leaving because the relationship no longer works for them. Simple, honest, and least painful for everyone.

That's simple, and it may be less painful in the short term under the cover of deception, just like successfully keeping an affair hidden is "less painful." But the overall pain in the long run is at least the same or more, and the level of respect - which is a healthy recovery resource for anyone, but is especially important for divorcing spouses that must continue to interact as parents for the benefit of their kids - takes an additional hit as well.

 

And while you may rationalize that it is technically "true", it is not honest.

Edited October 13, 2010 by Trimmer

[carrie999]

I want to genuinely thank all of you for your kind and heartfelt responses to my (our) situation. To clarify: we do not have children. In his case, that's part of the problem; his wife doesn't really want to have kids. Among other things, that's one of the things that brought us together, though he didn't actually know how I felt.

 

I'm ready to start a family and willing to forego career advancement for the time being to stay at home with kids until they're ready for school. His wife still isn't sure she ever wants children, and my guy is not ready, period. We're on the same page with how and when we'd like to start a family. It'll be as soon as possible, hopefully with the blessings of those we love.

 

We haven't figured this out yet...breaking the news to our spouses, in whatever fashion will cause pain, and I don't know how to minimize that without lying outright.

 

The situation is awful, period. I wish I could envision a better situation in which our spouses decide to move on...not for selfish reasons, but so that they're not hurt to the extent that they will be. This may be hard to believe, but that's what's holding us back (and I can say this confidently for myself): I don't ever want him to think someone was somehow better than him, because I think he's amazing. He's wonderful and loving and perfect..for someone else.

 

That's just it...I'm willing to take the risk on MM because I don't think he's worse than me. He's just someone who accidentally found someone who complements him. And our spouses deserve better than this. Ugh. I hate this situation, and I'm stalling now.

[bestplayer]

I want to genuinely thank all of you for your kind and heartfelt responses to my (our) situation. To clarify: we do not have children. In his case, that's part of the problem; his wife doesn't really want to have kids. Among other things, that's one of the things that brought us together, though he didn't actually know how I felt.

 

I'm ready to start a family and willing to forego career advancement for the time being to stay at home with kids until they're ready for school. His wife still isn't sure she ever wants children, and my guy is not ready, period. We're on the same page with how and when we'd like to start a family. It'll be as soon as possible, hopefully with the blessings of those we love.

 

We haven't figured this out yet...breaking the news to our spouses, in whatever fashion will cause pain, and I don't know how to minimize that without lying outright.

 

The situation is awful, period. I wish I could envision a better situation in which our spouses decide to move on...not for selfish reasons, but so that they're not hurt to the extent that they will be. This may be hard to believe, but that's what's holding us back (and I can say this confidently for myself): I don't ever want him to think someone was somehow better than him, because I think he's amazing. He's wonderful and loving and perfect..for someone else.

 

That's just it...I'm willing to take the risk on MM because I don't think he's worse than me. He's just someone who accidentally found someone who complements him. And our spouses deserve better than this. Ugh. I hate this situation, and I'm stalling now.

 

op I think lot of posters are confused because just a few weeks ago in your previous threads you had said that neither of you would leave your spouses,and you were both really happy but now you have a different story .

 

 

If you have made up your mind about dumping your H for the MM , take action rather than keep feeling sorry & pity for him & giving the excuse that you want to leave because your MM is not worse than you and your spouse deserves better . These are all just words & doesn't mean anything . But the fact is that you are doing this because that is what matters to you dont you agrree ?

 

best of luck

 

Best of luck

[greengoddess]

I want to genuinely thank all of you for your kind and heartfelt responses to my (our) situation. To clarify: we do not have children. In his case, that's part of the problem; his wife doesn't really want to have kids. Among other things, that's one of the things that brought us together, though he didn't actually know how I felt.

 

I'm ready to start a family and willing to forego career advancement for the time being to stay at home with kids until they're ready for school. His wife still isn't sure she ever wants children, and my guy is not ready, period. We're on the same page with how and when we'd like to start a family. It'll be as soon as possible, hopefully with the blessings of those we love.

 

We haven't figured this out yet...breaking the news to our spouses, in whatever fashion will cause pain, and I don't know how to minimize that without lying outright.

 

The situation is awful, period. I wish I could envision a better situation in which our spouses decide to move on...not for selfish reasons, but so that they're not hurt to the extent that they will be. This may be hard to believe, but that's what's holding us back (and I can say this confidently for myself): I don't ever want him to think someone was somehow better than him, because I think he's amazing. He's wonderful and loving and perfect..for someone else.

 

That's just it...I'm willing to take the risk on MM because I don't think he's worse than me. He's just someone who accidentally found someone who complements him. And our spouses deserve better than this. Ugh. I hate this situation, and I'm stalling now.

 

 

You need to tell your spouses exactly this and stop playing games. This is the kindest way. THE TRUTH.

[woinlove]

The longer you stall the worse it will be for your spouses. You spouses have been living a lie and they don't know it. The sooner that ends, the better.

 

Think how you would want to be treated if you were in your husband's place. You still admire your husband and he deserves to be able to love someone who wants to be with him. But first he will have to heal and you should let him start on that path now. Don't waste more of his life.

[JamesM]

Carrie, my biggest fear for you (and I guess for your affair partner) is that you will leave your spouses and then discover that you two are not so perfect together.

 

Another caution is that while he thinks he is your perfect match, he may back out of the relationship when he realizes that he is losing his wife. Or his wife may change her views on children and then he will look at you as compared to her. At that point, it may be too late for you to go back to your own husband, and if he takes you back, then he will know that he was second place in your life...and no longer number one.

 

Have you heard of the phrase "The grass is greener on the other side of the fence?" It is said because so often our mind convinces us that what we don't have is better than what we have. Yet when we get what we think is better, then we find that what we had is actually better for us.

 

The problem with breaking your marriages because of your current relationship is that there will be no turning back.

 

I have no doubt that you believe that it is best but having read your other threads (and quoted them), I still think that patience is best.

 

Having said that, your spouses do deserve the truth...the sooner the better. They are living a life of delusion and are assuming that they are the loves of your lives. Yet they are being deceived. I highly doubt that your husband will appreciate that you think is so amazing as you are screwing his alleged friend.

 

And one last thing....I know you will consider this trivial, but have you considered that this new relationship is built on deceit and lies to your current spouses? Do you truly think that in the future when things get rough, your new husband will be completely faithful to you? When that sexy and attractive female friend comes along and sees him as her perfect partner, then do you think that you will be able to compete with her as you may be pregnant and much less sexy? Or do you think that he will now be totally faithful to you and he will never break his commitment to you? (Before you answer...remember, when you got married to your husband and before he was married to his wife, then neither of you would have dreamed that an affair was an option with these "amazing people.")

 

Good luck in whatever you decide. Do not throw caution to the wind. And please do keep us updated.

[woinlove]

I wish I could envision a better situation in which our spouses decide to move on...not for selfish reasons, but so that they're not hurt to the extent that they will be.

 

You've mentioned this idea in your earlier threads too. It is fantasy. You, yourself, said you were happily married just a couple months ago. Your spouses are not going to suddenly fall in love with someone else just because you did. Give up this fantasy because it is a fantasy that is really hurting your H.

 

Your H will be hurt. The question is how. Will he be hurt, but still treated with some respect and empathy from his wife who at least gave him the truth? Or will she continue to watch him live a lie because she doesn't want to face his hurt, until some day it all blows up in a terrible way, and he has to spend even more of his life sorting through the whole painful mess because he can't trust anything his wife says? You get to choose.

[woinlove]

And then there is what James said, which has many important cautions. I'm assuming because you have been planning your future children with this new man, that your M is dead. You also mentioned earlier what you two would do if you got pregnant (you would then leave your spouses) so I assume this family planning is serious. But you do seem prone to fantasy and should carefully consider the points that James raises.

[Dexter Morgan]

Without getting into details, MM and I are at the point where we're trying to figure out how to make the break from our marriages. We've accepted that this will be a lengthy and incredibly painful process, and I know I have accepted that in the end, we may end up apart (worst-case scenario) after all the heartache we're causing others, and probably one another to boot. Our spouses are amazing people (despite the issues we have in our respective relationships) and this is going to be horrible.

 

the bolded part should make it less painful. you would be sparing them by setting them free from you so they can find people who will treat them better.

 

 

But we decided we can't keep living a lie. We're going to break it to them. One or both of our spouses may decide it's still worth it (furthering our guilt) and fight for the relationship. We're fully aware of the consequences, but neither of us likes living a lie.

 

Slam me if you choose to do so (I know some of you cannot wait to impart the horror stories or anger towards me being an OW)

 

 

actually.....I wasn't. and I despise people who do what you do more than anyone here.

 

I actually like the direction you are going. You will be setting them free. they won't know that it will be the best thing for them at first because they will be devestated and desperate, more than likely, to keep a family together. But in the long run, they will see its best for them to be away from you two.

 

but your "slam me if you wish" and "I know some of you cannot wait" comments shows the smugness I'd expect.

 

At least now we're dealing with this honestly.

 

and a word about that honesty. cheaters are liars by default. the truth may come to light later on, but still liars nonetheless.

 

so since you both are cheating and lying, what makes you both think you are so special that either one of you won't be doing the same some time down the road when the relationship isn't new any longer?

[Trimmer]

I wish I could envision a better situation in which our spouses decide to move on...not for selfish reasons, but so that they're not hurt to the extent that they will be.

Incidentally, please don't tell this to your spouse. It will most likely come off as very insulting. My ex wife had an affair earlier in our marriage, and she gave me some kind of a line like this - something like "Oh, we were imagining the two of you {the two BS of the affair} getting together." My main response was, ICK what makes you think I'm so low that I would show the disrespect to our marriage that you are ... I felt really insulted that she would just think nothing of imagining me doing that.

 

And I think that if you are really honest with yourself, you'll find that your feeling on this fantasy is at least as much about the fact that it would make your life much easier as it is purely altruistic... Earlier in your marriage, before your OM was on the scene, would you have felt so altruistic and positive about your husband finding another love? Don't answer me - answer to yourself. Unless you can honestly answer "YES" to that, I don't think you can truly claim that this feeling is "unselfish" now that your situation is very different.

 

Bottom line, like many other aspects of your situation, this is an unrealistic fantasy - please don't do like my ex did by sharing it with your husband. It will not impress him, make him think you are kind or thoughtful, or anything like that. He will perceive it as bizarre, mystifying, and insulting.

 

At least now we're dealing with this honestly.

I want to gently correct you here: right now, you're talking about how to deal with it, considering, and planning how to deal with it. Only once you take action and actually do so in an honest way can you speak in the present tense and say "now we're dealing with this honestly." Honesty may be your goal, but that's worth nothing until you put it into action.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Trimmer

[Dexter Morgan]

Our marriages are not miserable, and we do care about our spouses.

 

sorry, gotta call bs on that.

 

If you cared about them and they are so wonderful, you wouldn't be cheating on them.

 

if you disagree....tell your husband and let him decide just how cared for he feels.

[siuys]

I understand that you cannot live a lie. If you truly believe this is what you want, go for it and don't sway around. It will end up hurting everyone.

 

I stayed I would say 5 years too long in my previous 9-year relationship. Why? Because I was living a lie. In the end I ended it, amiably. No third party. Good friends still.

 

Bottom line, I don't believe you can stay FOR another person. It will never work out.

 

Good luck.