Author wheelwright Posted October 15, 2010 Author Posted October 15, 2010 Yes, cheating is a serious problem. Gaslighting is adding insult to injury. A moral person with integrity should invest some time and effort into repairing the relationship first rather than looking elsewhere for what they feel is missing. When you cheat you are removing passion and emotion from where it belongs, your relationship. Therefore not only are you damaging the relationship further, you are throwing an innocent unsuspecting party under a bus who is trusting you and emotionally vulnerable to you. If you want out then get out of the relationship before you run into the arms of another. IMHO betrayal of trust - cheating - is an cruel, thoughtless, and entirely selfish act.[/QUOTE] Like suicide then? I just mean it might be a cry for help.
Author wheelwright Posted October 15, 2010 Author Posted October 15, 2010 Betrayal of my trust, breaking marital vows, showing no respect whatsoever for my feelings or my trust=divorce. I respect your vows and you. However, one of the things I want to say here, is that if my partner needs something beyond what I can give him, or if I do, it doesn't make me want to divorce. It makes me want to understand. And maybe divorce later.
bentnotbroken Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I respect your vows and you. However, one of the things I want to say here, is that if my partner needs something beyond what I can give him, or if I do, it doesn't make me want to divorce. It makes me want to understand. And maybe divorce later. Fair enough. My feelings are if you are cheating, then you didn't want want me to understand it anyway. I didn't want a divorce either, the choice was made for me.
Author wheelwright Posted October 15, 2010 Author Posted October 15, 2010 I feel it is both. The gaslighting just makes you feel crazier after discovering the cheating. I feel both are just as bad. It's like being betrayed once and then being betrayed over and over again:( You are making me think about betrayal. And then I go to where I felt most betrayed - by my xMOM. He did Kiss and Tell. That's a special betrayal isn't it?
bentnotbroken Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 You are making me think about betrayal. And then I go to where I felt most betrayed - by my xMOM. He did Kiss and Tell. That's a special betrayal isn't it? Only if he hadn't shown you the type of person he was by cheating in the first place. Betrayal or continuing to do what he had been doing to someone else...lying and mistreating.
djhall Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 But also in response to this. isn't it true that when we marry we know vaguely somewhere that our spouse may be hugely attracted to another. And while we may potentially be the kind of person you talk about -those who already know they want an Open R, that knowledge may come later. Also, sometimes we end up with someone cos we settle. What happens when love comes after that? Of course, people change, and sometimes things that worked for you before don't work for you any more. In an honest relationship with respect for your partner, that would mean telling your partner why the relationship no longer meets your needs and giving them the respect of allowing them to make their own decision about whether the relationship still meets their needs based on accurate information. Your partner may decide they want to continue the relationship with you on different terms, or they may decide the relationship no longer meets their needs given your changed feelings. Either way, the partner should get the opportunity to make their own decision about continuing the relationship based upon accurate information. I believe ongoing cheating is a form of manipulation. If I want to cheat, but don't want to risk you leaving me, I have to somehow control your decision making. Since I can't control your decision making directly, I have to control your access to accurate information. By carefully controlling the information you use to make your decisions, I can indirectly manupulate and control your decision making. That is the unforgivable part for many people.
Author wheelwright Posted October 15, 2010 Author Posted October 15, 2010 I think it is both, probably. I wasn't gaslighted by my H so I can't really answer to the gaslighting. But, I can understand how devastating that is to a BS. Whether it is worse than the actual infidelity probably depends on the BS and the extent of the gaslighting. I don't think the gaslighting somehow makes the actual infidelity any less severe though. Why is it so bad? I feel like we should let others live as they wish etc.. Realise I am on shaky ground here, but still have that. I've always thought -let them go. Are you saying that if a BS is hurt over their spouse's physical affair, that they (the BS) is being possessive? I guess yes. I don't get why many WS/AP feel that a BS wanting their spouse to be solely devoted to them is considered "ownership." I've don't think I've read where a BS has said this. If someone can point me to an example, that would be great. It's interesting that this is the perception of some WS/AP, but not most of the BS. Yes you are right here. And despite all the good and wise things I have been told here, I feel my xMOM's state is willing bondage more then anything else. But then I also know I am a fool of the first order, and that my way of viewing things is skewed in some unfathomable way which puts me in a version of love which doesn't exist. I guess this must be the OW's trial.
bentnotbroken Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Of course, people change, and sometimes things that worked for you before don't work for you any more. In an honest relationship with respect for your partner, that would mean telling your partner why the relationship no longer meets your needs and giving them the respect of allowing them to make their own decision about whether the relationship still meets their needs based on accurate information. Your partner may decide they want to continue the relationship with you on different terms, or they may decide the relationship no longer meets their needs given your changed feelings. Either way, the partner should get the opportunity to make their own decision about continuing the relationship based upon accurate information. I believe ongoing cheating is a form of manipulation. If I want to cheat, but don't want to risk you leaving me, I have to somehow control your decision making. Since I can't control your decision making directly, I have to control your access to accurate information. By carefully controlling the information you use to make your decisions, I can indirectly manupulate and control your decision making. That is the unforgivable part for many people. Beautifully explained.
Author wheelwright Posted October 15, 2010 Author Posted October 15, 2010 I think it is three-fold: Sexual infidelity in a moment of weakness is devastating, but if honestly and quickly confessed to, I believe it can be overcome in a strong relationship. Lying and gaslighting is worse, IMO, because it shows a total lack of respect for your partner. It is self-protective, self-centered and cowardly. Which leaves the third hardest hurdle to overcome: Respect! Will I ever be able to respect a lying, gaslighting, self-centered, self-protective coward? ....there's the rub..... I liked something you said here - the difference between a moment of weakness and cowardice. Big difference?
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