Forum Ettiquette?

[greengoddess]

True.

 

Doesn't everyone have FOO issues or no?

 

My parents were happily married until I was about 15 or 16. It all went downhill from there. So my CHILDHOOD was happy, and I was never abused or anything crazy like that. I just think my parents who married young and had kids young were so into having little kids that they didn't know what to do with themselves or us once we started growing up. Not that they hated us or purposefully made our lives miserable. I guess they were just normal parents trying their best and then life skewed out of control for them. And yes for awhile it affected me badly and I had a bad relationship with them when I was in college etc. Now I realize they are human and we get along but I just wish they would get divorced. So I guess what I mean is that even though I experienced family problems like I think (???) everyone else does, there was nothing HORRIBLE going on and I don't feel like that is an excuse or even really the reason I had an affair. I feel that I dealt with them and it's in the past. Guess I could be wrong but it's how I feel. I feel that the reason I had an affair was that I fell in love with MM. And the perhaps subconscious reason I allowed myself to do something I don't agree with was perhaps because I didn't really agree with marriage so I didn't think it was really that big of a deal. Which I know is messed up reasoning but there it was in the back of my head I guess.

 

Interestingly enough, MM's daughter is 15 and one of the things that always bugged me so badly was how this must be affecting her. I guess sometimes I thought, well, if he is so unhappy he needs to leave, and not be unhappy at home like my parents. Then other times I thought, if there is any way their marriage can be saved then I need to get out of the way because I don't want to make life hard on his daughter who I could relate to. The whole time he was telling me he wanted to get divorced anyway and be with me and that he would be a happier dad, so I didn't really, and honestly don't now, blame myself for hurting his daughter, but the problem was that he kept telling me he was leaving but in the meantime he was staying married and spending all his free time with me, not his wife, not his kids, just with me. So I felt that his words and actions didn't match and while I am not theoretically opposed to someone leaving an unhappy marriage and being happier with someone else, and thus being a better parent, that was not what was happening in reality. In reality he was dragging it all out and making everyone's life less than it should have been , including mine, and I'd have to think including his kids'. So that was one reason among many I started wanting to break it off.

 

Thanks for that very honest post. I think the bolded part gets to the crux of affairs. You get it. You woke up to the reality of affairs instead of being blinded by your "love". The actions in an affair rarely seem to match their words.

[desertIslandCactus]

I agree with Owl. jj, your joke was cruel. It wasn't funny at all. What would your MM's wife think if she saw it?

 

I have a feeling that things are already being done to antagonize and discourage the MM's BS.

[greengoddess]

starbright do you think one of your parents were involved in an affair?

[Star_Bright]

Thanks for that very honest post. I think the bolded part gets to the crux of affairs. You get it. You woke up to the reality of affairs instead of being blinded by your "love". The actions in an affair rarely seem to match their words.

 

Yeah, I guess I lived and learned. There were a lot of things that didn't add up. I think ex MM was just confused. There was a post about conflicted MM and I really think my ex MM was conflicted. He wanted to be with me but was having trouble actually leaving his family. And his different feelings made his actions all over the place and it caused him to hurt everyone, I even think including himself. I had to start looking at his actions instead of his words, even though I really don't feel he said words to purposefully deceive me. I feel he was telling me what he felt when he was with me but that that didn't matter when it came down to it because he wasn't backing up what he felt and wanted with actions.

[pureinheart]

I thought she meant the posts about "Mine left his wife and now I have the ring"... QUOTE]

 

Pureinheart, You haven't seen the gloating.. This (and others) was gloating.

 

Hi Desert...isn't that the one where the MM (I can't remember the name of the poster:o) left his ring (when he left his W, but they later reconciled) at her house and then she went NC for some reason and didn't know what to do with the ring...if this is the one, no I saw no gloating, just everyone advising not to worry about the ring ...a couple of posters said to pawn it...

[desertIslandCactus]

 

Hi Desert...isn't that the one where the MM (I can't remember the name of the poster:o) left his ring (when he left his W, but they later reconciled) at her house and then she went NC for some reason and didn't know what to do with the ring...if this is the one, no I saw no gloating, just everyone advising not to worry about the ring ...a couple of posters said to pawn it...

 

No. It was the one where former OW married the former MM and tells posters of new status through the quoted comment.

[pureinheart]

I have seen that happen at one occasion, and that was in response to that specific former other woman stating that she for one did not "marry cheaters or former cheaters" but indeed "a man of integrity". She asked for it in my opinion.

 

 

In bold, it is this poster that I see gloating from...sorry for breaking up the replies...

[jennie-jennie]

I agree with Owl. jj, your joke was cruel. It wasn't funny at all. What would your MM's wife think if she saw it?

 

I think if my MM's wife ever found Jennie-Jennie on LS, she would agree with my assessment of myself: a BS' worst nightmare. What can be worse than an unapologetic OW?

[herenow]

I think if my MM's wife ever found Jennie-Jennie on LS, she would agree with my assessment of myself: a BS' worst nightmare. What can be worse than an unapologetic OW?

 

Am unapologetic cheating spouse would be a BS' worst nightmare IMO!

[pureinheart]

 

No. It was the one where former OW married the former MM and tells posters of new status through the quoted comment.

 

If it's the one I'm thinking of, no I didn't see that one, although I'd be curious to see why it was said...and if it was the one Jennie is talking about, the context in which it was posted would not be gloating, but a retaliation to gloating.

[JamesM]

James,

 

The anger you may see in posts from all sides is the true reality. The raw emotion that can be caused by an affair. I see no problem with that reality.

 

I don't see a problem with that reality either. But when that raw emotion gets translated into hurt to the OW, then it can be a problem.

 

While I do think the mod does a great job, usually such a post has already been seen by the person who it is intended to hurt, and no deletion can erase that hurt.

 

We do not live in a perfect world, but it would be good that BSs (on here and OWs/OMs on the Infidelity section) refrain from adding their opinions when it is posted in nager.

 

I have also been told by both OW and BW that my comments have been helpful to them. So I continue to post.

 

I have not doubt that what you post and what other BSs can be helpful at times. I also have no doubt that it can hurt. We must simply keep silent when we cannot help and speak when we can. When our anger arises inside 9as mine does here and in other forums), then it is best (and difficult) to refrain from posting.

 

BTW, I have read some of your comments and I really don't feel you are very objective at all. You seem to have issues with BW with-holding sex (please correct me if that is someone else). It appears to me that you are not very compassionate towards BW.

 

I apologize if that is the case. I do agree that I have stated that many affairs do not happen in a vacuum, and I know that this can be offensive to a BS who feels that he or she had no part in creating a situation that led up to the affair, but I try not to direct that to someone on their thread asking for help. It does come up in discussions and debates.

 

I do feel that many marriages fail and have problems before a WS chooses an affair. So yes, I have used a lack of sex as a reason. Yet if sex is withheld and the WS chooses an affair for the passionate sex, then I guess it seems logical that a withholding of sex led to the straying of the partner. I do not say that all BSs have withheld sex. I know that is not the case. I also know that not all marriages have major problems causing a person to choose an affair. Sometimes it is the background of the person that lead to insecurities and weaknesses. Sometimes it is....(fill in the blank). But many times it has everything to do with the problems in the marriage.

 

I do not say that every opinion posted must be completely inoffensive. Some views can be posted that are indeed helpful and yet offend. But when the intention to post is fueled by anger created by the same type of person asking for advice, then how can it be helpful and not hurting?

[desertIslandCactus]

 

If it's the one I'm thinking of, no I didn't see that one, although I'd be curious to see why it was said...and if it was the one Jennie is talking about, the context in which it was posted would not be gloating, but a retaliation to gloating.

 

'Mine left his wife and now I have the ring' was meant to encourage other OW(s) .. (while gloating) ..

[Owl]

I don't see a problem with that reality either. But when that raw emotion gets translated into hurt to the OW, then it can be a problem.

 

While I do think the mod does a great job, usually such a post has already been seen by the person who it is intended to hurt, and no deletion can erase that hurt.

 

We do not live in a perfect world, but it would be good that BSs (on here and OWs/OMs on the Infidelity section) refrain from adding their opinions when it is posted in nager.

 

This applies both ways, of course. There are an equal number (or have been until recent events apparently thinned the herd a little) of angry/hurt OW who often posed in anger against BS's.

 

It's that posting in anger/retaliation/gloating that is one of the biggest problems here, and the one really outlined in this thread.

 

it's one thing to post a dissenting opinion...another to intentionally attempt to belittle/attack/insult/minimize other people with your posts.

 

Members on both sides are guilty of this...neither side corners the market.

[herenow]

I don't see a problem with that reality either. But when that raw emotion gets translated into hurt to the OW, then it can be a problem.

 

While I do think the mod does a great job, usually such a post has already been seen by the person who it is intended to hurt, and no deletion can erase that hurt.

 

We do not live in a perfect world, but it would be good that BSs (on here and OWs/OMs on the Infidelity section) refrain from adding their opinions when it is posted in nager.

 

 

 

I have not doubt that what you post and what other BSs can be helpful at times. I also have no doubt that it can hurt. We must simply keep silent when we cannot help and speak when we can. When our anger arises inside 9as mine does here and in other forums), then it is best (and difficult) to refrain from posting.

 

 

 

I apologize if that is the case. I do agree that I have stated that many affairs do not happen in a vacuum, and I know that this can be offensive to a BS who feels that he or she had no part in creating a situation that led up to the affair, but I try not to direct that to someone on their thread asking for help. It does come up in discussions and debates.

 

I do feel that many marriages fail and have problems before a WS chooses an affair. So yes, I have used a lack of sex as a reason. Yet if sex is withheld and the WS chooses an affair for the passionate sex, then I guess it seems logical that a withholding of sex led to the straying of the partner. I do not say that all BSs have withheld sex. I know that is not the case. I also know that not all marriages have major problems causing a person to choose an affair. Sometimes it is the background of the person that lead to insecurities and weaknesses. Sometimes it is....(fill in the blank). But many times it has everything to do with the problems in the marriage.

 

I do not say that every opinion posted must be completely inoffensive. Some views can be posted that are indeed helpful and yet offend. But when the intention to post is fueled by anger created by the same type of person asking for advice, then how can it be helpful and not hurting?

 

See James, I believe to be silent when in pain doesn't help anyone. The pain is real. Again, if someone on this forum, for whatever reason wants to be shielded from the true reality that affairs create, then maybe they should ask themselves why they don't want to be faced with that reality.

 

Affairs can cause tremendous pain to all involved. To hide that pain would be a disservice to anyone who truly wants help on any side of the situation. The posts you speak about come from both sides. OW/OM are just as offensive to BS as BS are to OW/OM. That is the nature of affairs. That is the reality of this site. That is life in the real world. Why should LS be any different?

 

And, for the record, most of the BW's I have met on LS do take responsibility for their part in the break down of their marriage.

[JamesM]

This applies both ways, of course. There are an equal number (or have been until recent events apparently thinned the herd a little) of angry/hurt OW who often posed in anger against BS's.

 

It's that posting in anger/retaliation/gloating that is one of the biggest problems here, and the one really outlined in this thread.

 

it's one thing to post a dissenting opinion...another to intentionally attempt to belittle/attack/insult/minimize other people with your posts.

 

Members on both sides are guilty of this...neither side corners the market.

 

Well said.

[pureinheart]

This is one of the truest and most necessary comments to be made here.

 

The assumption that like posts in like forums is false.

 

The BSs come here to berate and criticize OWs and OMs as a way to vent about their own situation, but if a OW or OM (if they dare) posts in the Infidelity forum, then they would be "torn apart." Read some of the vents against "cheatin' scumbags." One poster admitted that he would forgive a murderer before he would forgive a cheater.

 

I do not believe that all BSs who come here act that way (ie Owl is a good example of good posts here), but for the most part it is true. And the newbie is blown away by the anger directed at him or her. He or she assumes that advice will be given from others who have walked or are walking the same path. He or she did not come here to be judged. There are definitely other places for that.

 

Isn't the purpose of this forum simply so that OWs and OMs can seek help from others with a very similar perspective? While I can appreciate that some OWs and OMs do benefit from a differing viewpoint, do they need to hear over and over that they are "cheating scumbags" or similar language?

 

I certainly understand why some would feel that way. I am neither a BS or an OM, but I can feel for them. Most know that the affair they are in hurts the BS. Most know that the affair they are in is far from being the best situation. But many are in the affair out of love and many didn't realize that they were with a MM until after they had fallen in love. And yet others believe that they are the best thing for their MM and MW.

 

Most also believe (right or wrong) that this affair will turn into a long term relationship.

 

The point is...everyone coming here should be treated respectfully. And TBH it would be best that only those with the same perspective or those who can post from that perspective should post here.

 

If I were an OW or OM, then I doubt that I would keep posting here.

 

Can you imagine if the OWs and OMS went to the Infidelity forum and pointed out the many reasons why those people have been betrayed? Do you believe that they could handle such criticism without getting angry? Personally I doubt it. My guess is that they would be crying "Infraction!" over and over to the mods.

 

BSs (for the most part) seem to believe that they are only the victim in an affair and believe that their WS is the only one at fault. For some reason they believe that a marriage takes two people, but when it falls apart, then it is only the fault of one person.

 

So...let those who post here, be treated respectfully.

 

No, there is not a black and white...that is what I am saying. A bad marriage contributed more to the WS's choice of an affair than the background of the OW/OM.

 

The choice was still made by the WS.

 

But admitting that there were problems that led to the affair is healthy for all involved. And if we look back at the lives of the BSs just as you looked back at the lives of the OWs and OMs, then I am guessing that the percentage of both who come from bad backgrounds is more similar than you realize.

 

I am saying that the background of the BS contributes as equally to the breakup of the marriage as the background of the OW/OM contributed to the result of an affair.

 

If you want to look at anyone's background, then look at the background of the WS and see if there are contributing factors that caused this person to choose an affair while in a bad marriage versus the person who chose fidelity while in a bad marriage.

 

 

I'm really not on either bandwagon here and maintain that it sucks to be an OW or a BS or the MM. It would be great if every relationship was a fairytale but this is the reality that many are faced with.

 

I still think that when an OW posts here she's usually looking for support and advice. While that advice may not be what she WANTS to hear, however constructive critism is the only way people can grow imo. However, I think that StarBright hit the nail on the head that some of the posters here are simply driving their own agenda.

 

P.S. - I think that a BS can provide valuable insight to an OW as can a MM. I don't think having a forum where only OW can commiserate would be very valuable to anyone.

 

And if I start a thread called "Affair sex..the best sex ever!!!", that is fine too then? It would serve as support to OW that they can improve their R and have it be even better than ever before. And it would be my truth.

 

This is everything I'd like to say (but said much better by these posters).

 

When returning, after not posting for quite some time, I saw horrible things said in this forum to OM/OW/WS and started a couple of threads and was literally blasted, it was like a dog pile, mob/bullying type effect of replies...I don't think anything I had to say was mean to any side...just hey, this is what I see.

[pureinheart]

This is one of the truest and most necessary comments to be made here.

 

The assumption that like posts in like forums is false.

 

The BSs come here to berate and criticize OWs and OMs as a way to vent about their own situation, but if a OW or OM (if they dare) posts in the Infidelity forum, then they would be "torn apart." Read some of the vents against "cheatin' scumbags." One poster admitted that he would forgive a murderer before he would forgive a cheater.

 

I do not believe that all BSs who come here act that way (ie Owl is a good example of good posts here), but for the most part it is true. And the newbie is blown away by the anger directed at him or her. He or she assumes that advice will be given from others who have walked or are walking the same path. He or she did not come here to be judged. There are definitely other places for that.

 

Isn't the purpose of this forum simply so that OWs and OMs can seek help from others with a very similar perspective? While I can appreciate that some OWs and OMs do benefit from a differing viewpoint, do they need to hear over and over that they are "cheating scumbags" or similar language?

 

I certainly understand why some would feel that way. I am neither a BS or an OM, but I can feel for them. Most know that the affair they are in hurts the BS. Most know that the affair they are in is far from being the best situation. But many are in the affair out of love and many didn't realize that they were with a MM until after they had fallen in love. And yet others believe that they are the best thing for their MM and MW.

 

Most also believe (right or wrong) that this affair will turn into a long term relationship.

 

The point is...everyone coming here should be treated respectfully. And TBH it would be best that only those with the same perspective or those who can post from that perspective should post here.

 

If I were an OW or OM, then I doubt that I would keep posting here.

 

Can you imagine if the OWs and OMS went to the Infidelity forum and pointed out the many reasons why those people have been betrayed? Do you believe that they could handle such criticism without getting angry? Personally I doubt it. My guess is that they would be crying "Infraction!" over and over to the mods.

 

BSs (for the most part) seem to believe that they are only the victim in an affair and believe that their WS is the only one at fault. For some reason they believe that a marriage takes two people, but when it falls apart, then it is only the fault of one person.

 

So...let those who post here, be treated respectfully.

 

No, there is not a black and white...that is what I am saying. A bad marriage contributed more to the WS's choice of an affair than the background of the OW/OM.

 

The choice was still made by the WS.

 

But admitting that there were problems that led to the affair is healthy for all involved. And if we look back at the lives of the BSs just as you looked back at the lives of the OWs and OMs, then I am guessing that the percentage of both who come from bad backgrounds is more similar than you realize.

 

I am saying that the background of the BS contributes as equally to the breakup of the marriage as the background of the OW/OM contributed to the result of an affair.

 

If you want to look at anyone's background, then look at the background of the WS and see if there are contributing factors that caused this person to choose an affair while in a bad marriage versus the person who chose fidelity while in a bad marriage.

 

 

I'm really not on either bandwagon here and maintain that it sucks to be an OW or a BS or the MM. It would be great if every relationship was a fairytale but this is the reality that many are faced with.

 

I still think that when an OW posts here she's usually looking for support and advice. While that advice may not be what she WANTS to hear, however constructive critism is the only way people can grow imo. However, I think that StarBright hit the nail on the head that some of the posters here are simply driving their own agenda.

 

P.S. - I think that a BS can provide valuable insight to an OW as can a MM. I don't think having a forum where only OW can commiserate would be very valuable to anyone.

 

And if I start a thread called "Affair sex..the best sex ever!!!", that is fine too then? It would serve as support to OW that they can improve their R and have it be even better than ever before. And it would be my truth.

 

This is everything I'd like to say (but said much better by these posters).

 

When returning, after not posting for quite some time, I saw horrible things said in this forum to OM/OW/WS and started a couple of threads and was literally blasted, it was like a dog pile, mob/bullying type effect of replies...I don't think anything I had to say was mean to any side...just hey, this is what I see.

[jennie-jennie]

This applies both ways, of course. There are an equal number (or have been until recent events apparently thinned the herd a little) of angry/hurt OW who often posed in anger against BS's.

 

It's that posting in anger/retaliation/gloating that is one of the biggest problems here, and the one really outlined in this thread.

 

it's one thing to post a dissenting opinion...another to intentionally attempt to belittle/attack/insult/minimize other people with your posts.

 

Members on both sides are guilty of this...neither side corners the market.

 

I hold no resentment to any BSs in real life, but I do to many BSs on LS because of their posting style here. So it is not the fact that they are BSs that matters, but indeed their posting styles.

[jennie-jennie]

This is everything I'd like to say (but said much better by these posters).

 

When returning, after not posting for quite some time, I saw horrible things said in this forum to OM/OW/WS and started a couple of threads and was literally blasted, it was like a dog pile, mob/bullying type effect of replies...I don't think anything I had to say was mean to any side...just hey, this is what I see.

 

I remember. They were literally all over you. It is a wonder you stayed after being greeted like that.

[herenow]

I hold no resentment to any BSs in real life, but I do to many BSs on LS because of their posting style here. So it is not the fact that they are BSs that matters, but indeed their posting styles.

 

Really JJ, MANY of the BS's? I just don't see this rampant bashing from either side that you are talking about. I see both sides being true to themselves. And, sometimes it's not what others want to hear.

[jennie-jennie]

See James, I believe to be silent when in pain doesn't help anyone. The pain is real. Again, if someone on this forum, for whatever reason wants to be shielded from the true reality that affairs create, then maybe they should ask themselves why they don't want to be faced with that reality.

 

Affairs can cause tremendous pain to all involved. To hide that pain would be a disservice to anyone who truly wants help on any side of the situation. The posts you speak about come from both sides. OW/OM are just as offensive to BS as BS are to OW/OM. That is the nature of affairs. That is the reality of this site. That is life in the real world. Why should LS be any different?

 

And, for the record, most of the BW's I have met on LS do take responsibility for their part in the break down of their marriage.

 

It is a well-known fact that there is a risk for BSs especially to get stuck in anger and bitterness in the aftermath of an affair. At times I think posting on LS perpetuates this.

[jennie-jennie]

Really JJ, MANY of the BS's? I just don't see this rampant bashing from either side that you are talking about. I see both sides being true to themselves. And, sometimes it's not what others want to hear.

 

Perhaps because the moderator has already deleted the bashing posts directed directly towards me?

 

Apparently your perception of the forum is vastly different than mine.

[JamesM]

Definition of "many"...............

 

consisting of or amounting to a large but indefinite number

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/many

 

So when we refer to "many," I think many of us simply a large but not exact number. And I use it meaning a large but indefinite percentage of the people posting here.

 

Just for clarity.

[jennie-jennie]

Really JJ, MANY of the BS's? I just don't see this rampant bashing from either side that you are talking about. I see both sides being true to themselves. And, sometimes it's not what others want to hear.

 

Then again, I did not talk about "rampant bashing" now, did I? Those were your words. I talked about posting style. You can do a lot of hurt in other ways than bashing.

[anne1707]

It is a well-known fact that there is a risk for BSs especially to get stuck in anger and bitterness in the aftermath of an affair. At times I think posting on LS perpetuates this.

 

But isn't this statement just another example of an attack on BS?

 

As for OW gloating. Most don't but it does happen. I can think of one post made on here over the weekend (since deleted) which was definitely along the lines of "I got my man, shame you did not have what it takes to get yours"

 

Strange thing I have found is that as an ex-WS when I first came here, I got attacked mostly by BS but now it's mostly by OW/OM