Jambalaya Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 ...hide nothing. A Dr Philism I've come across a few times in the last couple of anger filled days. A statement that I agree with totally. Especially after my now ex acted in such a ridiculously over dramatic way when I explained I was feeling insecure and asked to see his phone. It got to the point where I begged him to let me see the phone so I could get rid of the feelings of dread and get an explanation for what I saw. After giving him an ultimatum 'look it's this simple - you either give me your phone and end all this crap now, or I dump you' and kicked him out after hours of back and forthing, and only then did he offer me his phone. Not a healthy situation by anyone's standards and I'm completely humiliated that I actually begged, got denied and then only got offered after I lived up to my ultimatum. He honestly doesn't get why I can never trust him again after this. Thoughts on hiding things?
guinnessdraft Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 People hide things for many reasons. It really depends on the circumstances. Would you want him to tell you that he thinks you're getting fat? Or if his first gf didn't dump him, he would still be with her?
Lonely Lover Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I don't have anything to hide per se, but I value my privacy. I suppose I would show my boyfriend my phone if he really begged, but honestly the deeper issue would be lack of trust. After he checked once, I would expect a very candid conversation about fears, trust, and jealousy. Regularly checking anyone else's phone is simply crazy. I've reached the point where if I don't trust a guy enough not to "need" to see his phone, there is no point in being with him.
Author Jambalaya Posted October 11, 2010 Author Posted October 11, 2010 I explained to him why I felt the need to check. I said I was struggling and that I had the same feelings I had when I caught him out in lies and secrets last time and I needed to alleviate those feelings by seeing that he hadn't done anything. I said I would make it up and that we would work on the trust issues if I was wrong about my feelings and that these gut feelings had obviously come about because we didn't work through our last trust issue.
phineas Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 My ex-wife protected her cell phone better than any of our kids. She was cheating. I never had problem handing her mine. I wasn't doing anything inappropriate. If I was in a relationship with a woman & I saw it going somewhere i'd have no problem just handing over my cell phone or even giving her access to my online account. Why? because I got nothing to hide because I'm not one of those guys who pretends to commit to one woman. I actually do it.
collegeguy_24 Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 I think its perfectly natural to some extent. When me and my most recent ex started dating, she made it clear that there is a nothing to hide policy. In fact she said if I ever want to look at her phone and read her text messages, then I am allowed to. I gave the same in return. In fact, I didn't even look at her phone till I caught her looking at my text messages, she felt guilty, but I re-assured her I have nothing to hide and to go ahead and look, I did the same in return and read her messages. We also took each others phones and changed the language from English to Spanish for jokes on one another to : )
Author Jambalaya Posted October 11, 2010 Author Posted October 11, 2010 I even experimented this weekend at a dinner party and discreetly asked the girl's throughout the evening to ask their other halves if they could see their phone. Every single one of them handed it over with no qualms or questions whatsoever. Not only that but when the girl's asked if 'I' could look at the their other halves phone, it wasn't a problem either.
YellowShark Posted October 11, 2010 Posted October 11, 2010 When my EX had her affair one of the first red flags was that her cell never left her side. When I came home I would plop mine down on the side table near the front door and left it there. She - on the other hand - took hers from the kitchen to the bedroom back to the kitchen then to the livingroom, etc. That behavior telegraphed to me that something was going on via her cell that she didn't want me to see. Which sadly turned out to be the case. That was my experience.
PegNosePete Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 When my EX had her affair one of the first red flags was that her cell never left her side. When I came home I would plop mine down on the side table near the front door and left it there. She - on the other hand - took hers from the kitchen to the bedroom back to the kitchen then to the livingroom, etc. That behavior telegraphed to me that something was going on via her cell that she didn't want me to see. Which sadly turned out to be the case. That was my experience. Exactly the same here. She got a new phone and wouldn't let me play with it at all. I thought she was just being protective of her new toy (I usually have all the cool gadgets) but evidently there were other reasons. I even had to download a manual to find out how to check her messages
Citizen Erased Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 He can look at my phone, I leave my emails signed into my laptop and I don't have passcodes on my laptop or my phone. I don't delete emails or texts. He can look because I have nothing to hide. But I'd hope if he wanted to, he would discuss the reasons why beforehand. I don't think he would need or want to but I have no problem with a little extra assurance for the man I love. But then I have nothing to hide. If I did I obviously wouldn't be saying any of that.
OceanGirl Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 This is so true. I know that when I am seeing a guy, I only really take care to guard my phone if there are flirty messages from other guys.
jerbear Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 I have nothing to hide. If she asks, I'll give her access. In my line of work, I have to have passcodes, passwords, etc...
TLCbear Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 I don't have anything to hide per se, but I value my privacy. I suppose I would show my boyfriend my phone if he really begged, but honestly the deeper issue would be lack of trust. After he checked once, I would expect a very candid conversation about fears, trust, and jealousy. Regularly checking anyone else's phone is simply crazy. I value my privacy also, however, I have no problem with my SO wanting to see or hold my phone. If your SO other have to beg you, it's something wrong with that. I agree with others, if you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing. I've seen plenty of times where people go on and on about invading their privacy, which in most cases, it's just their way of trying inflict guilt on the other party. I always say it's a big difference between being private and being secretive. Private I can deal with, secretacy, I could not. Honestly, the deeper issue is being scared you're going to be found out...all you're doing is causing more suspicion...whether you realize it or not. I've reached the point where if I don't trust a guy enough not to "need" to see his phone, there is no point in being with him. Good for you, but the sad thing is, many people say that, but actually don't mean it...in other words, they are still there.
Author Jambalaya Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 Thanks guys. Everyone else gets it. My friends get it. Strangers on the internet get it. He doesn't. He seems to be focussed on the fact that I lied about checking his phone first, but I lied after I was denied what I asked for and gave damn good reasons for doing so. For two hours. I checked his phone because I had a gut feeling (the same feeling I'd had months before when it turned out he'd been keeping secrets and lying). I saw texts from a woman he'd never mentioned with pet names, identical texts to her and me, intimate information, furniture choosing, talk of being together, talk of picking up from the airport, talk about coming round for dinner. Not one of these events or things he'd ever mentioned to me - and believe me every man would tell their partner "oh I'm picking up so and so from the airport" "oh I went round to so and so's for dinner" - am I wrong? I begged and humiliated myself and shouted after I was denied a simple request that every other woman on the planet seems capable of asking and achieving in seconds, for 4 hours, whilst he handed me the phone, snatched it back and came up with BS excuses and reasons for not handing me the phone. After kicking him out, he texts me. Firstly this woman is his friend's friend. Then she's someone he stays in contact with randomly. Then hours later she's his friend. Then she's his ex and then his friend's ex. Then she's disabled and he was helping her out. He said he wouldn't mess with his phone so I could check it (after I kicked him out), then deletes a text in front of me before handing me the phone, from the one person I had an issue with, no matter what it contained. He still claims he hasn't done anything wrong and is angry that 'I' created this situation. Sigh.
PegNosePete Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Wow. What a lying, cheating, gaslighting loser. You definitely did the right thing. Now you know what comes next.
collegeguy_24 Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Dump him, plain and simple. He is obviously cheating on you and he is trying to make you feel guilty cause you caught him in the act.
Author Jambalaya Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 Wow. What a lying, cheating, gaslighting loser. You definitely did the right thing. Now you know what comes next. I looked up gaslighting (my cultural reference didn't include it) and found this. http://www.helium.com/items/110746-gaslighting-the-extremes-of-emotional-abuse It blew my socks off with it's insight.
PegNosePete Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 That article describes it rather well, although it is a little sexist! It is by no means a solely male activity, as many of the men on these boards will attest.
Lonely Lover Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Oh, wow, I guess I didn't respond with everything in mind. I have no problem with anyone, friend or boyfriend, holding/using/being near my phone. I just meant that if a guy felt the need to check up on me by demanding to see my call log, or snuck access to my phone, that's where I'd have the issue.
reservoirdog1 Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 He seems to be focussed on the fact that I lied about checking his phone first, but I lied after I was denied what I asked for and gave damn good reasons for doing so. For two hours. This speaks volumes. Cheaters always try to turn the situation around, to make it all about the behaviour of the person they're betraying. They get pissy that the betrayed doesn't trust them, they blameshift, they make up stories ("I only set up that account on Adult Friend Finder because I thought YOU were cheating and I wanted to find your profile"), they get upset at you for violating their privacy or "snooping" on them, etc. It's absolutely textbook.
YellowShark Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 (edited) Cheaters always try to turn the situation around, to make it all about the behaviour of the person they're betraying. They get pissy that the betrayed doesn't trust them, they blameshift, they make up stories... That was my experience. My EX blamed me for having "jealousy issues" rather than her infidelity issue which forever damaged the trust and security I felt BEFORE her affair with a married man. Then she used "my alleged jealousy issue" to validate to outside parties why our 7-year relationship failed. Kooky huh? Edited October 12, 2010 by YellowShark spelling
Author Jambalaya Posted October 12, 2010 Author Posted October 12, 2010 When I kicked him out I dumped him. The last couple of days have just been a series of emails, showing me he really doesn't get it. It's horrible. I don't believe for a second he intended to emotionally abuse me, but he did. My heart keeps thinking 'what if?' maybe this is something small and my brain is blowing it up out of proportion? Maybe we can work on it? Maybe he's just an idiot? We have so much good stuff, so many good times, so many plans for the future, surely that's worth saving? Then I think of how I begged him, crying, pleading with him to ease my distress and hand me his phone and prove me wrong and we'd work on my trust issues, to no avail. I truly love him I really do and I've only just broken down the angry coldness that's has been keeping me going for the last couple of days. No matter what I feel for him, I know allowing him back in my life would be disastrous for my self esteem and mental health - how could I return to someone I begged out of desperation and who refused me something so small? But it doesn't stop my heart from trying to convince me that taking him back and forgetting all of this is what I should do and I hate this feeling of my emotions trying to overrule my common sense. I feel utterly shattered and torn.
YellowShark Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 Especially after my now ex acted in such a ridiculously over dramatic way when I explained I was feeling insecure and asked to see his phone. Sounds like he panicked to me. Then I think of how I begged him, crying, pleading with him to ease my distress and hand me his phone and prove me wrong and we'd work on my trust issues, to no avail. Which is your evidence that there was definitely something on his phone at that moment in time that he absolutely didn't want you to see. After giving him an ultimatum 'look it's this simple - you either give me your phone and end all this crap now, or I dump you' and kicked him out after hours of back and forthing, and only then did he offer me his phone. Even though I find Dr. Phil a nutcase this cliche is very accurate. "People who have nothing to hide..hide nothing." He panicked. You kicked him out. The probability is high that he deleted items off his phone during that time. Only afterwards he could show you his phone safely. My heart keeps thinking 'what if?' maybe this is something small and my brain is blowing it up out of proportion? Maybe we can work on it? Maybe he's just an idiot? We have so much good stuff, so many good times, so many plans for the future, surely that's worth saving? You can still save it, but it is up to him to invest a lot of effort to win your trust back. But it doesn't stop my heart from trying to convince me that taking him back and forgetting all of this is what I should do and I hate this feeling of my emotions trying to overrule my common sense. Only you know what is best for you. But I would consult a couples therapist for a session and bounce this problem off them. They can't tell you what to do, only give you the tools how to approach this issue. Best of luck.
guinnessdraft Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 I disagree with post. People with nothing to hide are just really good at hiding things. You won't find anything in their phone or their emails--they're not a stupid teenage.
Author Jambalaya Posted October 13, 2010 Author Posted October 13, 2010 I disagree with post. People with nothing to hide are just really good at hiding things. You won't find anything in their phone or their emails--they're not a stupid teenage. Even if they were good at hiding. Hiding behaviour isn't just about 'physically' hiding texts, emails, presents whatever, it's emotional too.
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