Sorting Out Ambiguity

[Madgick]

After 17 years of marriage I was divorced 13 months ago. No kids. I am just starting out back in the dating world. I don't know what I'm doing any more.

 

Met a man through work at a conference. He was married twice, 14 years, divorced 3 or 4, then married again for 5, separated 14 months ago, divorce finalized 9 months ago. No kids.

 

At the conference we talked a couple times and had some laughs and he invited me 3 times to tour his work facilities. I accepted and we went. He added lunch to the invitation. So now I'm sorting out where we are. Gads, I'm so rusty at this.

 

Prior to the tour he'd paid me a very nice compliment about being pretty. I've noticed him checking out my figure (in a nice gentlemanly way). He's remembered little personal details abt my private life. He once mentioned abt something "We should get together sometime and talk abt it". All which is meaningless (except the asking 3 times about the tour) if he was just being professionally polite and 'making contacts', or might indicate continued interest. He also read my emails (professionally related) within seconds of me sending.

 

When we met for the tour, altho we'd been on handshake terms, he kissed my cheek. Well, people do that and altho I liked it, it's not necessarily meaningful. He also stood very close as in arms touching from shoulder to elbow when there was no need for it, which did not happen at the conference. He asked also, "So how's your personal life?" which seemed like an odd question (it was during the part of the conversation where you'd usually ask, "So how have things been since I last saw you?"), my answer was equally odd and awkward tho: "it's fine, I don't have much of a personal life." (like I said I'm rusty at this dating thing, geez just shoot me now. I was embarassed as soon as I said it).

 

(It's occurred to me afterwards that he actually doesn't know if I'm dating. he never asked, it never came up at the conference, and the only hint he'd have is when he discussed the timing of the tour, he added "...and will you be bringing anyone with you?" which might have sort of been asking. I'm not sure if he has a girlfriend either--altho he doesn't live with anyone I know because he told me.)

 

We were guided through the tour by an official tour guide, and my date(?) kept looking at his watch. I don't know if it's because this was an imposition on the guide who had other responsibilities and who was doing it as a favor to my date(?) or if my date(?) was bored (maybe he was just doing this as a professional courtesy to me and wanted to get thru it and had other things to do that afternoon--altho he told me he was going to go grocery shopping afterwards then for a run).

 

The conversation was odd at times. When it was just him and me we talked well and easily and laughed; when the guide was present he talked a lot of business with the guide (who was also his friend), altho when I spoke up he was very attentive and encouraging and made good eye contact and all that. I wasn't a drag silently trudging thru the tour, I spoke, but was at a disadvantage when they were discussing people I didn't know. I don't know if he were bored or if he felt awkward, especially in front of the guide, and not sure how to make the conversation go so maybe he filled up time with work chatter. Other times he mentioned andom topics.

 

At the end he took the elevator with me and I didn't realize he was getting off at a different floor. I started to leave the elavator just as he bent forward to kiss my cheek goodbye. It surprised me and I smiled and turned a bit to thank him and say good bye too, but we only made the briefest of eye contact because he moved to hold the door open. I might have given the impression that I was eager to leave--which wasn't the case, just didn't realize I was getting off and he was staying on.

 

So now I don't know what to think, was he just doing a professional courtesy or was this a pleasant but slightly awkward encounter between adults who are both rusty at this?

 

We took a picture in front of a famous statute on his cell and he said he'd send it to me email. I thought I'd send a bottle of wine as a thank you with a note. Not sure what to say in the note. I would like to see him again, but if he's not interested I'll leave him alone.

 

Any insight on this?

 

Two rusty people or disinterest?

Edited October 10, 2010 by Madgick

[denise_xo]

Two rusty people or disinterest?

 

It's a bit difficult to tell from your post, because a lot of the things you describe can be done in both a friendly and a flirty manner, and which side it lands on would depend on things like eye contact and body language. In my opinion, ambiguity is exactly what makes flirting fun, so I vote enjoy it and just keep exploring it further. It may lead to something very nice, and it may be a dead end, but sometimes that kind of slow chase is as enjoyable as whatever it may or may not turn into. Since you both agreed he will be in touch, just take it from there and see where it goes. Good luck.

[Madgick]

I think it depends on whether he has a girlfriend. I don't know if he does or doesn't, altho he does date. I also think, am pretty sure, that he's much more comfortable with men than women. He was in an exclusively male profession for a long time and even now his world is mostly male. Which might explain why he spoke so much to the guide abt business matters. I think he's a friendly person, but don't think he's a flirt.

 

Actually the guide told me that everyone was going to be pulling him aside and asking him who's the woman Steve was with, so that seems to indicate he hasn't brought a date/girlfriend on this excursion, which would be a great and unique and memorable early in the relationship type of date thing.

 

However, the looking at his watch often was troublesome. He said he had grocery shopping and a jog planned for the afternoon, neither of which are time sensitive. So why the watch? Everything else would indicate he was interested

 

Sigh...

 

Anyway, I'm sending a thank you bottle of wine with this note. "Thank you for XXX. I had such a nice time. It was kind of you to give up your day for something that must be routine and boring to you by now. It's always a pleasure to spend time with you. Warm Regards, XXX"

 

I figure it lets him know it's 'safe' to call if he wants to pursue something with me; I'm receptive. If he was on a timed schedule, it acknowledges the effort he put in (which I appreciate whether he's interested in me or not).

 

If he sends a copy of the picture he took of us email with just a polite note, I'll see that as no interest (or if he forgets to send it). I'm hoping when he gets the wine, he'll pick up the phone and call.

 

Anyway, I'll know by the end of the week.

Edited October 11, 2010 by Madgick

[Madgick]

A male colleague of mine, in his forties, who also had met Steve at the conference, asked about the tour. I said I'd had fun and kind of hoped he'd have asked me out, but he didn't. My colleague said, "He thinks you are out of his league and isn't going to ask you out." Huh? What does that mean? I said, "Did he tell you that?" No, but my colleague said he's been a man a long time and it's a common thing with men and that it explained the mixed messages, and men get very insecure and sometimes won't take the risk of asking out a woman if he thinks she's that far out of his league.

 

I was flabbergasted. I'm a 150 lbs, 5'4, middle aged woman. I'm not out of anyone's league. My colleague said I was very classy, smiled and laughed all the time and am well liked, dress well, and am pretty. And I have 2 masters degrees and work in an industry that men find very cool and prestigous (NFL), where as Steve has only a HS diploma. Well, the world is full of pretty women, younger, slimmer and just as friendly as me. And Steve doesn't know I have 2 degrees. And he's in very upper management in a fortune 500 company (division chief), resort/hotel with great perks. And he looks older than his age I guess, but he's fine looking and in acceptible shape (5'1" and about 200 lbs). I like his looks. Not George Clooney but pleasant. And...I'm no Angelina Jolie.

 

Colleague said Steve had come out of a marriage with a much younger pretty woman and it had ended badly and done a deal on his ego; and Steve had spent most of his life with men (15 years in the infantry, and then in engineering finance). He's not necessarily polished with women.

 

The colleague also said that he might be nervous because we have professional contacts in common and if I shot him down or we dated and I didn't like him, it could get around the industry and be embarassing, and he's sort of courting our industry.

 

So anyway, I talked with my female friend, and she thought it made sense. The conversation was jumpy and he kept up chatter, but mostly to the guide, but she said he kept throwing out topics that might interest or impress me: abt certain foreign cultures that treat women badly, how he was taking classes at local college, a tv program that women would like. And she thought how he leaned against me when we stood next to each other and 'mirrored' my movements showed how he liked me. And how he perked up every time I spoke and laughed at all my jokes (as I did his--he's pretty funny, in a wry ironic way, which I really like) all were significant. Also the way he subtly pointed out how important he was in his company. He wasn't disinterested, like I thought, he was just awkward but liked me a lot and was trying to impress me.

 

However, she can't explain why he kept looking at his watch, and why even if he was nervous he didn't ask me out. He must have done it before, he was married twice. (Colleague said it's nothing for men to ask out women beneath their league, even if there's a vague dissatisfaction with them--in fact, he said it's very common for men to do after a harsh break up. It's easy, makes them feel in control, and can be soothing, if not really fulfilling--then they tell themselves women aren't really worth the effort--but keep in mind, Colleague is GUESSING at all this, he never discussed it with Steve.

 

So what do you all think? Do men really shy away from asking out women who they think are 'out of their league'? We aren't talking about a shy man here, but one who is well liked and used to to managing a budget of millions and almost a thousand people. He's got a lot of confidence. Out of his league, I don't know if I can buy that at all.

 

Oh vey...

[Madgick]

Anyway, here's what's actually happened since I last saw him. I sent a bottle of scotch and he texted a thank you back. He said he was glad i had a good time (note he didn't say he had a good time).

 

He referred to a joint charity that our companies participated in jointly and that we'd worked together on at our conference. The joint effort is pretty much over, just a few loose ends. But I have an expertise in those loose ends.

 

He texted he was going to be out of town for the next 3 weeks (which I already knew because the guide had mentioned it when I was on the tour). He was interested in those loose ends.

 

I texted back to give me a call when he gets back and we can either get together or arrange a phone call to discuss the loose ends.

 

He texted back, thanks and he would (well he used a lot more words than that, very friendly).

 

Those loose ends don't actually need much joint participation. They can be handled with a couple emails and a Fedex. I figure he knows I enjoy his company because I said so in the thank you note with the scotch. I gave him the option of meeting in person or doing this by phone call or completely blowing me off (who can blame him if he forgets unnecessary loose ends of an old project 3 weeks from now).

 

Frankly I am exhausted. I figure if he comes back, calls and choses to discuss the 'loose ends' in person over drinks or something in public, that's good. But that's it; if he doesn't ask me out on a date, there's no more pretexts for interaction. If he chooses to do it over the phone or not at all, that's pretty clear.

 

If my colleague is right, and it's he's worried about dating out of his league, what can I do about it? Colleague said just be very encouraging so he doesn't feel like there's a risk in asking me out without the crutch of work related business.

 

Dating has changed a lot since I last did it in my early 20's. I don't remember it being this confusing.

Edited October 14, 2010 by Madgick