Date Rape

October 9, 2010

The point is that it is adults' duty to make their own decisions and to engage in behavior as they see fit. Admittedly, consent has never been an issue with me, but expecting a man to go through several "clearance" stages before having sex with a woman who isn't saying no is patronizing and patriarchal of women.

Please. You can't complain about misandrist rape paranoia one minute and then talk about patriarchial attitudes the next. It is patently ridiculous.

asking such questions will most likely open a floodgate of female insecurity more often than not, "my breath must smell, he thinks I'm fat, he isn't digging me." IME women want men who are just as taken in the moment as they are.

Several women on this thread have already said we have no problem with a man saying something like "Do you want me inside you?"

Do you think we are all lying?

his desire is a big part of what turns HER on. Countless threads here confirm this.

Last I checked, most men are turned on by a woman who is hot for them. Which is why asking for consent can be a turn on for both people.

October 9, 2010

Just because Aerogurl thought that he would hurt her if she didn't have sex with him doesn't mean he actually would. Maybe if she said no and tried to stop him he maybe would have stopped, the situation could possibly have been prevented if she said no and stopped him. That's why it was not rape. Offcourse I wasn't there, I don't know the details and all that but based on what she wrote it's not rape.

I don't mean to be insensitive. I don't condone what that guy did, it was completley classless.

If a man twice your size came up to you and demanded your wallet, would you feel comfortable saying no because maybe he isn't actually a mugger who will beat you up?

If a woman feels like a man will hurt her if she says no so she says nothing, she is trying to avoid a beating in addition to a rape.

Neither of us were there, but if Aerogurl feels that she was raped it is inappropriate for people turn around and say "That wasn't rape. You should have said no and he would have stopped."

October 9, 2010

I think all the posts on this thread just prove that there needs to be more and more open communication about sex and expectations between men and women. I also strongly advocate keeping dates very public and in environments that you (the woman) can control until you know the person.

October 10, 2010

I think LS has some very misogynistic posters and I think some posters are just being thoughtless. But the US has a 13% rape conviction rate (scarily low) and the UK has an 6% conviction rate (even more terrifying). I don't think the UK is any better than the US in terms of understanding rape.

Our conviction rate is definitely bad. I'm in Scotland, and there's this Not Proven verdict which is commonly used. Basically it means "on a balance of probabilities, we think he probably did rape the woman - but 100% of us aren't 100% sure, so we'll aquit." I studied law, and our lecturers in criminal law (male) had pretty dim views of some of the existing law on rape...feeling that some very poor decisions had been made.

In the last couple of decades there has been real emphasis on ensuring that the police treat rape complainers in a sensitive manner. Nowadays I don't think a contemptuous attitude from the police is the problem accusers encounter. I think the police themselves often feel frustrated by the failure of courts to convict.

A difference I perceive, between the US and the UK is in the extent to which women feel safe or unsafe in the University environment. I get this horror picture from the media and from some message board postings of pretty inhumane inhazing ceremonies being carried out on students....and wonder how much this hazing business impacts on the on-campus mentality when it comes to relations between male and female students.

October 10, 2010

If a man twice your size came up to you and demanded your wallet, would you feel comfortable saying no because maybe he isn't actually a mugger who will beat you up?

If a woman feels like a man will hurt her if she says no so she says nothing, she is trying to avoid a beating in addition to a rape.

Neither of us were there, but if Aerogurl feels that she was raped it is inappropriate for people turn around and say "That wasn't rape. You should have said no and he would have stopped."

No I wouldn't feel comfortable but I would say No anyway because real self respecting men don't give somebody else their wallet just because they tell you to, no matter what size the other guy is. And no I'm not a tough guy far from it actually, just a plain average joe. But even a plain average joe is willing to fight to defend himself. It's our male nature to do so. Maybe because I'm a guy I don't understand but I'm sorry if I offended anybody. Women and men have different mindsets I guess.

October 10, 2010

Sanskrit- why do you feel the need to post about false reports? Elaina started this thread to discuss ways women could try to prevent rape and you immediately jumped in to say how "misandrist" rape research is and claim that 25% of reported rapes are false.

Even if you think false reports are rampant, why don't you have some concern for women who are worried about being raped?

Hello That Girl,

That is one thing that worries me, why some guys seem more interested in trying to "prove" some rape cases as fake instead of understanding and ackhnowledging that rape, including date rape, is a serious problem that does happen by men who do not have good character/integrity.

Hello Aerogurl,

You are brave for sharing what you experienced, and please don't allow these guys who question you to make you feel bad. You did nothing wrong. People are different. Some people when they are afraid scream and kick and run and make a hissy fit, and others freeze like a deer, so that even if they want to say no, they are not physically able to.

It's very important for men to understand that women shouldn't be taken advantage of,and that men should have the integrity to make sure that the woman wants sex with him before going about it.

It seems though that many men don't have even this desire to make sure the woman is truly wanting to be with them sexually.

Hello D-lish,

Yeah I know some girls who were sexually abused/raped (though not date rape, but rather rape by stepfathers) I asked them why they never told, but they said that they didn't want to destroy their families and they didn't want it to get in the media and they didn't want people scrutinizing them and talking about them and so they go to counseling but they do not press charges. i hope the counselor encourages them to press charges, but counselors can't force people to, right? Thankfully though, they are no longer being abused but have moved out of that situation years ago.

About date rape, I am sure that many men get away with it because many women do not report it because

1. They are afraid.

2. They don't want that kind of publicity if it gets out in the media.

3. They don't want to have the huge and horrible deal of being interrogated by the police and others and going the long court process.

4. They don't want to hurt their families.

5. They are ashamed that that happened to them and don't know what to do but just would prefer to not think about it.

Date rape, as well as other kinds of rape, and sexual abuse, and trafficking women as sex slaves, happens all the time, and so much of the world ignores it or doesn't believe it happens in their city, or doesn't care.

I hope people understand that fighting against rape and sexual abuse and trafficking is so important, because the women involved are people who need rescue and protection and healing.

Thankfully, there are men with integrity who have never raped and who do care for women and make sure that the woman they are with wants sex and loves and cherishes her.

Edited October 10, 2010 by elaina

October 10, 2010

Regarding US vs. UK, I think there are differences, but they aren't that big (though I've only spent a couple of months in the UK).

When it comes to chivalry, I wouldn't really consider UK guys particularly chivalrous. Southern US guys win that award by a pretty far margin and Irish guys tend to be very thoughtful about that kind of thing.

As for the general safety of university students, I don't think there is a big difference in danger level but there is a big difference in how universities are set up. The most common university experience for a US student is probably the big state university- most of which are not in big cities and can be almost like a town to themselves. They often have a big frat/sorority culture where hazing can happen (hazing is a problem in frats and sororities which you join by choice and rarely a problem elsewhere). There isn't really anything equivalent in the UK to schools like Penn State which is basically a city to itself, but there are lots of urban universities (NYU compared University College London), small liberal arts colleges (Amherst compared to St Andrews), and universities in smaller well developed towns (Berkeley or Cornell compared to Oxford) or on the edges of a big city (Edinburgh seemed this way to me, but I was only there briefly). There is a lot more variety in the US.

I think the biggest difference is probably housing. In my experience it is the norm for first year students in the US to live in university housing, whereas in the UK more students rent their own shared flats or live with their parents. When almost the entire freshman class (and in some cases, all of the students) is living on campus, it makes security a bigger issue for universities because they just have more responsibility.

But a lot of posters here are the equivelent of the people who post comments at the Daily Mail website.

October 10, 2010

Bugger, I took my time to write, pressed the wrong button a lost it, no time to do it again.

Taramere, I agree

Harmful, thank you.

Size makes a big difference. Long story short. A while back I was in the house of a female friend. I had no romantic interest in her, yet because we had both had a few drinks I was much more tactile than usual. She got the wrong end of the stick and made her move. I intially tried to shrug off her advances but it wasn't enough so eventually I took her hands off me, placed them by her side and said no. For a split second their was a flash on anger in her eyes, not much and I doubt she was even aware she had shown it, but it was there. I had nothing to fear.

She is 5 foot 2 and about 120 pound, I'm built like Tyson, 5' 10" and 220 pound of solid muscle. Can you imagine how scared she would be if the roles were reversed? How aware she would be that there was nothing she could do to stop me from taking whatever I want?

Half a lifetime ago I was in Cambodia, had myself a little run in with the Rouge. Guns pointed at head and a lot of jabbering in language I didn't understand. Those boys got my wallet, watch, backpack and clothes. They got them in about 2 seconds flat. I can't at any point remember saying no, my instinct was to survive.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Crusoe

October 10, 2010

It sounds as though the women you get entangled with are real charmers.

Can you fathom why all the women in your experience have behaved so boorishly?

though funnily enough, it's only American men who seem to be advocating that behaviour on this board.

And since you have nothing else, you start in with personal attacks on me. Par for the course. "IME," in addition to including my own personal experiences, includes reading on this board and others, where women of whatever nationalities make it quite clear they like assertive men, and that a patronizing, permission-seeking attitude towards sex is a turn-off. There are active threads on this board right now describing the consequences for men who are too polite in seeking sex.

You obviously didn't even take a look at the Sommers article I linked in the thread earlier, which details abundantly the problems with the date rape issue in the U.S. Ironically, there is some support for your position of linking violence in the U.S. to the rape issue in that article.

But then again, you aren't really interested in discussing this issue, are you? just taking cheap shots.

October 10, 2010

Interesting discussion.

Personally, I'm one of those unusual people on this board who believes in delaying physical activity rather longer than most. One happy benefit of that is that it pretty much makes this kind of problem go away. If you date someone for several months (gasp) before progressing to the sex stage, it's hugely less likely that these kind of problems will arise.

However, I recognize that other people don't share my view. Given that I would make the following additional points.

First, as a man who has seen how events can get distorted after the fact, if I was on a jury I would not be willing to send a man to prison for rape unless it was quite clear cut. Here, I'm saying the woman said no clearly, and there is physical evidence or witnesses to back her up. I realize that's a difficult standard sometimes, but that's the way it has to be or you get false rape accusations like this one:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5319636-504083.html

I do have some sympathy for women who are in situations like those described here, where they basically had sex even though they really didn't want to. I know it's emotionally difficult. But, this sympathy is balanced. I think it is true what other posters have said that many women expect and indeed demand men to be somewhat aggressive or the women will lose interest. Women need to understand that puts men in a very difficult position. Women need to understand that every time they make a demand like this, there is going to be a counterbalancing problem that may cause.

I would say that given the world we live in right now, it is necessary for women to be careful about who they are alone with and to be very vocal if they don't want to have sex.

I would also say that, as others have pointed out, a man really shouldn't have sex with a woman if he's not quite sure she wants it. But, if he doesn't do this there is no way I'm throwing him in prison for rape or even particularly looking down at him. He has already received a lot of very conflicting messages from women at large, which make it difficult for him to know what to do. If women want to change the situation, you are all going to have to stop rewarding men for being aggressive and encouraging them that way when you like it. Date some “nice” guys. I know that individual women can't exactly control what other women do, but that's a situation you need to work towards if you really want men to be as considerate as you are saying here.

Again, the simplest and best individual solution is to be careful of being alone with a man until you know him well, and delay sexual activity.

To the men on this list, I think we have to recognize at a certain point that some women are never going to agree with us and understand this. They really will want to have it both ways where men are extremely and excitingly aggressive but only when the women want them to be, and they will not be convinced by logic. From our point of view, we have to be willing to defend each other both on juries in the court, and interpersonal situations. I do believe that society is a little unbalanced right now towards the woman's point of view, and that is partly because men fail to stand up for what they know is right if the women in their lives complain loudly enough.

And of course, it wouldn't hurt if we tried our best to make sure that women really do want sex before going that far.

Scott

October 10, 2010

Talking about date rape isn't alarmist.

You asked me the reason for my initial posts, suggesting that it wasn't within the topic. I understand why you dropped that line of argument, because incidence of false rape accusations is obviously within the topic.

Even if you think the numbers are small (which goes aganist all the research on this topic that shows 1/4-1/10th of women will be raped in their lifetime), you should want women to be safe.

The Sommers article deals well with the absurd 1/4 number, and also notes that the actual incidence of rape among educated, middle class and up people, the audience on this board, that the actual incidence of rape is ~1/30th what it is in higher risk lower income, lower education demographics.

She also posits that it's quite possible that most rapes in the U.S. are committed against men, but I haven't even mentioned that until now as I'm sure the silence would be deafening on that issue.

Your concern is debunking the supposed rape myth, you have no concern for rape victims.

Never said nor implied that there was a "rape myth" just that special interests have simultaneously attempted to inflate the actual occurence of rape while deflating the incidence of false accusations. Rape is a very real problem in the U.S., but how the problem is framed is actually detrimental to the real victims.

I hope people do read the research.

Me too.

You are trying to completely derail a post about how women can protect themselves from the few predatory males out there and turn it into how women are liars.

Funny, that's exactly the shaming tactic that Dr. Sommers described as occuring on a TV show in her book excerpt. Did you get it from there?

On topic posts are never "derails" as much as you want to limit and couch whatever issues are being discussed and "black out" any other points of view.

October 10, 2010

Please. You can't complain about misandrist rape paranoia one minute and then talk about patriarchial attitudes the next. It is patently ridiculous.

"Patently ridiculous?" There is no inconsistentcy whatsoever in simultaneously claiming that political interests dishonestly resort to anything to increase statistical rape claims, decrease false rape claim incidence, and claiming that asking men to go through some "do you consent... no really now think about it now, do you -really- consent" with others presumed to be rational adults capable of making their own decisions. Or perhaps you'd care to describe the "patent ridiculousness" in a bit more than conclusory detail? Thought not.

Which is why asking for consent can be a turn on for both people.

Do you have sex with women?

October 10, 2010

Some of the male responses here surprise me. Where I come from men were raised to look after women. Be they family, girlfriend, friend or total stranger, it was a fellas duty to make sure no harm came their way, not to try and go balls deep as soon the the opportunty arose. If your date was drunk you made sure she got home safely and slept alone. If she was drunk and coming on to you, you turned her down, she's drunk, not thinking straight and so you didn't take advantage.

Really, it shouldn't ever get to the stage where a woman has to say "NO" and push a fella away.

Yeah Crusoe!!! Wonderful post!!!

Where I'm from, many men are gentlemen like that too! I don't know how many times (too many times to count) that my male friends have made sure Ive gotten home safely, and that I"m not being bothered by a loser, and helped me with car problems, and given me good advice. I am really grateful to them for that and especially even more now that I see there are many men who are not gentlemen.

October 10, 2010

It is the guy's responsibility to make sure that his partner is enjoying what is going on.

No it's not. It's the responsibility of grown adults to seek their own enjoyment, not for one gender to provide it to the other.

Way back in college, I had a woman in my bed who started crying when we were about to have sex. She was perfectly willing, but I stopped, not because she was apparently not enjoying things, but because I estimated she was going to be crappy in bed, and was thus undeserving of my effort.

Her response? "What's wrooooonnnnnnnnnnggggg?? Waaaaaaaa."

October 10, 2010

No it's not. It's the responsibility of grown adults to seek their own enjoyment, not for one gender to provide it to the other.

I don't think you have any idea what true love is, sad to say.

October 10, 2010

No it's not. It's the responsibility of grown adults to seek their own enjoyment, not for one gender to provide it to the other.

Way back in college, I had a woman in my bed who started crying when we were about to have sex. She was perfectly willing, but I stopped, not because she was apparently not enjoying things, but because I estimated she was going to be crappy in bed, and was thus undeserving of my effort.

Her response? "What's wrooooonnnnnnnnnnggggg?? Waaaaaaaa."

Sanskrit, there's no point arguing with people that still believe a knight in shining armor coming to save them from all their problems.

October 10, 2010

I stopped, not because she was apparently not enjoying things, but because I estimated she was going to be crappy in bed, and was thus undeserving of my effort.

This is what creeps me out the most about responses like yours in this thread. You and others are arguing that all you need is a woman's consent (either explicit or implicit, i.e., "she didn't say No" or "she came in to my apartment") to push your sexual agenda onto her. You don't even mention, wonder, or consider if she would want to have sex with YOU. You don't give a sh*t what she thinks; it doesn't seem to matter to you. As long as she didn't say No, you're golden!

Why would any guy want to continue "intercoursing" with a woman who is unresponsive or not enjoying herself? Is that some kind or turn-on in the male mind that I'm not aware of? I had always assumed that was a mental disorder known as necrophilia.

October 10, 2010

No it's not. It's the responsibility of grown adults to seek their own enjoyment, not for one gender to provide it to the other.

I don't think you have any idea what true love is, sad to say.

Hello Elaina, good evening!

Your comment above is interesting...first, because I thought this thread only dealt with date rape and not about date rape and people who are in love. Second, would you share to us what true love really is? I was under the impression that as a thinking human being I am responsible for seeking out what I enjoy, what makes me happy, what gives me joy...I can only share the things I find good and enjoyable with another and hope that that person does too, and then MAYBE we can build something out of that...please elaborate.

Thank you in advance !

Tami

October 10, 2010

I haven't read the entire thread, but I can say I know far too many women who have turned their Monday morning quarterbacking of their decision to have sex despite the fact they didn't really want to into a convenient date rape accusation (or at least hint thereof).

I suspect I'll be flamed now by the females, but whatevs.

October 10, 2010

I really don't understand the teasing aspect and why she felt she owed the guy sex. We also don't know the circumstances of how it happened. Did she go to the club with the guy, we're they dating/friends? Did she meet the guy at the club?

After a night of dancing and drinking and then being alone at his place or hers, most men will try to go for sex.

The problem is not that she didn't consent, it's that she didn't say no or try to resist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but most girls aren't going to say, "Please f-me" the first time they have sex with a guy. The guy will try and it's her job to stop it if she's not feeling comfortable.

That's what I think too. They just let it happen.

What force?

From what I read, she willing had sex. Then regretted it later. And now she's thinking she was raped.

Hmm, I'll just reply to this. How did I tease him? Well I was dressed in very provocative clothing as I had just been out clubbing, not with him in particular though. He asked me to hang out when I got back to my dorm and I agreed as I was still wide awake at the time. So given my clothing and the time at which we went to hang out I probably did seem like a tease to him especially after we got in his bed to watch a movie.

Now we were just friends. I did not like him in any, shape, or form but I was alone at his apartment with him with none of my friends around. That's when I got scared. I was scared if I said no, of what his reaction might be as he was pretty persistent on trying to have sex with me even after I pushed him off of me when he tried to kiss me. I was scared he might get violent and so I went with it. I also felt like I owed him because of how I was dressed and he seemed to have thought that my whole coming to hang out with him that night meant I wanted to have sex. Although his invitation to hang out did not imply sex was going to happen (might I add I was more naive then also) as he said "let's just watch a movie since you're bored and up and so am I".

And yes I did feel violated after that, I felt horrible. I didn't say anything though because as I said before technically he didn't rape me as I did not verbally say no to him. After my fear took over I just laid there and let him have sex with me, then when it was over I asked him to take me home. I never spoke to him after that either although he tried to call and text me. So no technically I am not a victim of date rape, but I did feel as though I was violated.

October 10, 2010

This is what creeps me out the most about responses like yours in this thread. You and others are arguing that all you need is a woman's consent (either explicit or implicit, i.e., "she didn't say No" or "she came in to my apartment") to push your sexual agenda onto her. You don't even mention, wonder, or consider if she would want to have sex with YOU. You don't give a sh*t what she thinks; it doesn't seem to matter to you. As long as she didn't say No, you're golden!

Wait...I do not think he has to wonder...he said she was "perfectly willing" and got upset "waaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh.. what's wrong"? when he stopped. If she did not want to have sex with him why she get upset when he stopped? It looks to me , he stopped because he didn't want the drama that this woman was setting him up with. Did you finish reading his post?

October 10, 2010

where women of whatever nationalities make it quite clear they like assertive men, and that a patronizing, permission-seeking attitude towards sex is a turn-off. There are active threads on this board right now describing the consequences for men who are too polite in seeking sex.

Numerous women have said on this thread that they think it is a good idea when men look for consent.

I do not think that women who like a man to be agressive want a man to totally ignore whether or not they are into the act. But even if we assume they do, wouldn't you rather take the risk of a woman being dissapointed by your lack of agression than risk a woman feeling that she was forced into sex?

No it's not. It's the responsibility of grown adults to seek their own enjoyment, not for one gender to provide it to the other.

Again, sex is something two people do together. It isn't supposed to be something one person does to another or two people doing whatever they want regardless of the other person's enjoyment. Most people want to be good in bed and being good in bed is about making sure your partner is having a good time.

Way back in college, I had a woman in my bed who started crying when we were about to have sex. She was perfectly willing, but I stopped, not because she was apparently not enjoying things, but because I estimated she was going to be crappy in bed, and was thus undeserving of my effort.

Her response? "What's wrooooonnnnnnnnnnggggg?? Waaaaaaaa."

Efforts? Everything you've just described is about a man using a woman's body for his own pleasure and assuming she'll orgasm spontaneously from his agression.

Your comment above is interesting...first, because I thought this thread only dealt with date rape and not about date rape and people who are in love. Second, would you share to us what true love really is? I was under the impression that as a thinking human being I am responsible for seeking out what I enjoy, what makes me happy, what gives me joy...I can only share the things I find good and enjoyable with another and hope that that person does too, and then MAYBE we can build something out of that...please elaborate.

Tami-Chan, this kind of looks like trying to start something, but like with other posters I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, everyone has a role to play in their own satisfaction. But at the same time, both people should have some concern for the other person's enjoyment. Like if your significant other hated tensed up every time you did it, I would hope you would stop licking his neck even if you enjoyed it and even if he didn't excplicitly say he hated it. When you're dealing with something much more intimate than neck licking such as penetration, people should be even more careful that they aren't pushing ahead when the other person isn't ready.

I haven't read the entire thread, but I can say I know far too many women who have turned their Monday morning quarterbacking of their decision to have sex despite the fact they didn't really want to into a convenient date rape accusation (or at least hint thereof).

A woman who has sex when she doesn't want to is pretty likely to have been raped. Now if she decides to go along with it but has no fear and doesn't feel bullied, it isn't rape, but I don't see how you could know that.

Really it just sounds like when a woman says she was raped, you automatically doubt her.

October 10, 2010

Hello Elaina, good evening!

Hello Tami-chan, good evening to you too!

Your comment above is interesting...first, because I thought this thread only dealt with date rape and not about date rape and people who are in love.

Well, as you can see in many threads, threads sometimes seem to take on many different twists and turns and many times address different issues that might even be considered slightly off topic, such as Sankrit's idea, which doesn't have anything to do with date rape either, or does it?

Second, would you share to us what true love really is?

I'd be happy to. First, let me ask you some questions. How do you know that you truly love your family? How do you know that you truly love your friends? How do you know that you truly love your lover? Is it because you have an ooshy gushy happy feeling, or is it because you are willing to put their needs above your own?

True love is caring for the other person before oneself.

I was under the impression that as a thinking human being I am responsible for seeking out what I enjoy, what makes me happy, what gives me joy...

I'd be really surprised and saddened if you didn't. However, if you truly love someone, you want that person you truly love to enjoy, be happy too, and you take it upon yourself to give enjoyment to the one you love? I was not addressing Sanskrit's love of himself by any means.

Please read Sanskirt's post again:

"

No it's not. It's the responsibility of grown adults to seek their own enjoyment, not for one gender to provide it to the other.

Now mine:

"I don't think you have any idea what true love is, sad to say. "

Grown adults of course naturally are going to seek their own enjoyment, but adults who love each other do also seek to provide enjoyment for their love, whether it's in sexual ways (making sure their partner cums/enjoys sex too), and/or nonsexual physical ways (cooking for him/her or doing something else thoughful for the other person) and/or emotional ways (writing love notes, spending quality time with that person.)

I can only share the things I find good and enjoyable with another and hope that that person does too, and then MAYBE we can build something out of that...please elaborate.

Please see above.

Thank you in advance !

Tami

You're welcome !

Elaina

Edited October 10, 2010 by elaina

October 10, 2010

Hello again, Elaina, thanks for responding!

which doesn't have anything to do with date rape either, now does it?

Actually, it does...because many are false accusations and just as many are unreported...unless, of course, you do not think that is pertinent to the discussion of date rape?

I'd be happy to. First, let me ask you some questions. How do you know that you truly love your family? How do you know that you truly love your friends? How do you know that you truly love your lover? Is it because you have an ooshy gushy happy feeling, or is it because you are willing to put their needs above your own?

True love is caring for other person before oneself.

I will give of myself if it will make me happy or it will give me joy. Nobody is truly altruistic. If I cook for my child, or donate my kidney to her it is so because I love her and doing so makes ME happy.. sitting there in front of your computer and assigning your values because you do not think somebody does not seem to know what true love is ..is not cool...jmho.

I'd be really surprised and saddened if you didn't. However, if you truly love someone, you want that person you truly love to enjoy, be happy too, or no?

I doubt that you will be saddened by anything I share on this board-but...okay...If I am making a person happy and I in turn become miserable by making him happy, that's when people of sound mind would tell me to LAUNCH! That's not true love...that's probably something that someone has to talk to a mental health professional with.

Again, thanks for responding.

Tami

October 10, 2010

Numerous women have said on this thread that they think it is a good idea when men look for consent.

Hello That Girl,

Agreed It turns me on even more, especially with the fire in his eyes

I do not think that women who like a man to be agressive want a man to totally ignore whether or not they are into the act. But even if we assume they do, wouldn't you rather take the risk of a woman being dissapointed by your lack of agression than risk a woman feeling that she was forced into sex?

I like "agressive sex" in that I like agressive, but there are definitely guys who I would no way in hell want to have sex with, who are agressive. Liking agressive sex doesn't automatically mean "please come and have sex with me."

Again, sex is something two people do together. It isn't supposed to be something one person does to another or two people doing whatever they want regardless of the other person's enjoyment. Most people want to be good in bed and being good in bed is about making sure your partner is having a good time.

So true!!! :bunny:

Efforts? Everything you've just described is about a man using a woman's body for his own pleasure and assuming she'll orgasm spontaneously from his agression.

Agreed

Tami-Chan, this kind of looks like trying to start something, but like with other posters I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Of course, everyone has a role to play in their own satisfaction. But at the same time, both people should have some concern for the other person's enjoyment. Like if your significant other hated tensed up every time you did it, I would hope you would stop licking his neck even if you enjoyed it and even if he didn't excplicitly say he hated it. When you're dealing with something much more intimate than neck licking such as penetration, people should be even more careful that they aren't pushing ahead when the other person isn't ready.

Agreed

A woman who has sex when she doesn't want to is pretty likely to have been raped. Now if she decides to go along with it but has no fear and doesn't feel bullied, it isn't rape, but I don't see how you could know that.

Really it just sounds like when a woman says she was raped, you automatically doubt her.

Though I'm sure there are cases where women lie about being raped, there are so many more cases where women (and girls) do not report rape.

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