Holding-On Posted October 12, 2010 Posted October 12, 2010 You sound like you're just not ready to end it yet. You can intellectually know all the right things to say, to do; you can tell yourself a hundred different ways how you deserve a man for all your own, etc. but in my opinion: until you are really, truly ready, you won't end it. So maybe, paradoxically, the thing to do is to accept it as it is and for what it is. When you are ready, you'll end it. Then all the info on *how* to break things off (implement No Contact, etc. etc.) will make sense and you'll be able to do so, even if it's the hardest thing you've done. This seems like the most excellent advice. The fact that you are posting here suggests to me that you are starting on the road to ending it. I wonder if, really, you don't - at this time - prefer to be unattached? You are already responsible for a young man, a career, a household. Do you really have anything to give a good man at this time? I'd imagine you are rather tapped out energy wise! So currently you are having great sex without strings (other than the moral ones). You don't have to do anything for this guy. You don't have to pick up his socks or entertain his parents or cook him supper or take care of him when he is sick. And he chases you around and has great sex with you. That is a reasonable reason to have chosen to stay. Maybe not an ethical reason but a normal, biologically sane one. Some other great websites to visit are: http://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/ and gloryb.com I know that the author of baggage reclaim has a book that talks about NC when you are co-parenting or co-workers. Good luck.
woinlove Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Juicyfruit, I haven't read the other responses, but reading your posts makes me both sad and frustrated. My heart goes out to you but I also want to shake you and tell you to wake up. Your 40's can be some of the greatest years of your life. Your old enough to be confident and know what you want/need, sexual energy is high and if you keep in shape you, that combination of confidence and experience and maturity is really hot to men of all ages. And 8 years of that with spent on a man committed to his wife and family!!! What are you thinking? Don't you want more? Don't you want to call a lot of the shots? Don't you want someone who is always there when you need him and not just the other way around? Please...think where you are want to be in your early 50's and how you are going to get there. This man will still have a child just barely reaching teens. Do you think he is to leave then? Is what you have now really all you want?
woinlove Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Another thing tossed around on this board that rankles me. The concept of "wasting" one's life. In other words.. if a relationship doesn't GO somewhere that is societally acceptable.. the whole thing was a WASTE. If we are to say that it's only meaningful if it ends up in marriage or a primary significant relationship... then... MOST relationships are a "waste". If someone meets someone, gets married, the marriage lasts 15 years, and then gets a divorce... applying the same thinking... then the whole thing was a WASTE because it didn't last. Perhaps only "salvageable" if there were children created. Do you all really believe that? That it is only meaningful if it lasts until the very end, otherwise it is all a waste? That only if there is a piece of paper to show at the end, or offspring as a result, it's meaningful? It's never about the present moment but where it's going? In my opinion... life isn't about "wasting" or "earning" -- it's about experience and learning. Good points. But juicyfruit mentioned worrying about ending up alone. I know a few women in their 50's who have a fun, fulfilling life at least part of the time without any reliable partner, but the women in that age group who really are having the greatest time (just among the ones I know) are in stable, loving relationships. From what juicyfruit posts, it suggests she might like to be in the latter group. If so, she needs to figure out how she is going to get there. If she thinks she will be happier single with some no-strings sex on the side, fine. But, that's not what I'm reading. If juicyfruit wants something different, she could well have wasted some time already. But that isn't the important point. The important point is not to waste any more time if she wants something else. If you want change, juicyfruit, even just joining a group or class or something that will broaden your contact group and deepen your experiences is one small step to starting on change. As you say, physically moving would be disruptive to you and your son. But you can start to mentally move by starting to fill your life with new activities and people you enjoy. Expect to mourn a loss if you stop or lessen your affair. It's all part of the process of a new beginning. Of course, if you don't want change, just continue on. But that is not what I am reading. Let where you want to be 3 or 4 years from now be your motivation.
on a learning curve Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Another thing tossed around on this board that rankles me. The concept of "wasting" one's life. In other words.. if a relationship doesn't GO somewhere that is societally acceptable.. the whole thing was a WASTE. If we are to say that it's only meaningful if it ends up in marriage or a primary significant relationship... then... MOST relationships are a "waste". If someone meets someone, gets married, the marriage lasts 15 years, and then gets a divorce... applying the same thinking... then the whole thing was a WASTE because it didn't last. Perhaps only "salvageable" if there were children created. Do you all really believe that? That it is only meaningful if it lasts until the very end, otherwise it is all a waste? That only if there is a piece of paper to show at the end, or offspring as a result, it's meaningful? It's never about the present moment but where it's going? In my opinion... life isn't about "wasting" or "earning" -- it's about experience and learning. This post really resonated with me tonight, and I thank you OO, for your eloquence here. I have been giving much though to the relationships in my life, and despite a few painful ones, I would really be wrong to think of any of them as a "waste". The idea that we (generally speaking) have wasted our time loving another, is really absurd when I think about it. Thank you, again.
NayWinter Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 This post really resonated with me tonight, and I thank you OO, for your eloquence here. I have been giving much though to the relationships in my life, and despite a few painful ones, I would really be wrong to think of any of them as a "waste". The idea that we (generally speaking) have wasted our time loving another, is really absurd when I think about it. Thank you, again. I agree with everything you said.. I, too would like to thank OliveOyl. Great post!
bentnotbroken Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 The assumption is made here that for the OP (and everyone posting on this board) that "being 2nd" is a bad thing. Is it always? Why? Before you state how obviously horrible being 2nd is, suppose in this particular scenario, being 2nd in THIS relationship is better than being 1st in a less satisfying relationship. Or think of wives of polygamists. I recently read about a family (one that is the center of a reality show, actually) where the husband has *4* wives and they all know about each other and apparently the configuration works well for them. No, I'm personally not a polygamist at all, and yes, I want to be 1st. But it's not just a matter of absolute "ranking". It's about quality of attention. I WAS 1st in my marriage... my husband didn't cheat at all...there was no other woman... and I felt very lonely most of the time. Just having a "man of one's own" is not the magic bullet. It's more than that. If your mentality is that of being second,(I don't believe you can be second in a marriage as an AP) and being in a non healthy( 8 year ow) and hidden relationship, then second isn't bad at all.
woinlove Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Juicyfruit says she feels "really stuck at this point in time. I also feel really stupid and angry at myself." While it may be personally reassuring to some posters here to argue that spending 8 years with a MM is great, equivalent to be number 1, not a waste,..., I don't see how that is helpful at all to juicyfruit. Do you think she should just ignore the feelings of being stuck, stupid and angry and being left alone?
alexandria35 Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 The first two bold sentences cancel each other out, but I highlighted two more that stood out to me. And juicyfruit, 3 out of 4 bold statements stand positive. Who says you are getting the raw end of the deal? By whose standards? The best sex you ever had??? You don't want anyone but him??? Amazing sex with butterflies in the stomach? After EIGHT years??? You sound luckier than most. Seriously??!! Is this all that an OW requires? Amazing sex? Are their expectations really so low and are their needs really so base? Since I have never been married, I have had several long and short term relationships, some with amazing sex, some not so amazing. I would never stay with anyone for the sex alone. Of course I like amazing sex, who doesn't? But I expect a helluva lot more than that! I expect to be able to call my SO whenever I want, I expect to be able to visit him at my home and his. I expect to meet his friends and family and for him to meet my people. I expect my SO to be able to respond and be there for me when I need him, not just when he can sneak away to fire me off a quick text that he will call me later. If all a guy had to offer me was amazing sex then I wouldn't consider him worth my time. Great sex is easy to find so long as you are not being held back by some romantic fantasy of someone else. I also do not expect my relationships to end in marriage, at my age and where I am at right now, I don't really see myself ever getting married. However that doesn't mean that I would accept hiding and sneaking around for the chance to get a hot roll in the hay. That just isn't necessary. Like I said, as long as your not being held back by a fantasy, it's easy to find great sex and a whole lot more with a single guy.
on a learning curve Posted October 13, 2010 Posted October 13, 2010 Seriously??!! Is this all that an OW requires? Amazing sex? Are their expectations really so low and are their needs really so base? Since I have never been married, I have had several long and short term relationships, some with amazing sex, some not so amazing. I would never stay with anyone for the sex alone. Of course I like amazing sex, who doesn't? But I expect a helluva lot more than that! I expect to be able to call my SO whenever I want, I expect to be able to visit him at my home and his. I expect to meet his friends and family and for him to meet my people. I expect my SO to be able to respond and be there for me when I need him, not just when he can sneak away to fire me off a quick text that he will call me later. If all a guy had to offer me was amazing sex then I wouldn't consider him worth my time. Great sex is easy to find so long as you are not being held back by some romantic fantasy of someone else. I also do not expect my relationships to end in marriage, at my age and where I am at right now, I don't really see myself ever getting married. However that doesn't mean that I would accept hiding and sneaking around for the chance to get a hot roll in the hay. That just isn't necessary. Like I said, as long as your not being held back by a fantasy, it's easy to find great sex and a whole lot more with a single guy. This post is so inflammatory that I don't know where to begin.
on a learning curve Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 how is it inflammatory??? What she says to me makes perfect sense. And I agree. Why do the nasty with a MM and endure the pain of knowing he is sleeping with at least one other woman, telling her that he loves her, going on vacations with her, and having a family with her? Love? Great sex? Nope....Thats dependency. Thats low self esteem. Thats just wrong. Have you considered the possibility that the OW receives pleasure from the A?
on a learning curve Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 what, so 30 minutes of pleasure is better than many years of guilt over what OW and MM have done to his family, the only innocent ones in this picture, many years of pain of the sharing of your "soul mate" with his wife, the one he walked down the aisle with? Yeah, i would take forgoing the orgasm for a lifetime of dignity, integrity, and happiness. I would take it too (maybe). Not a guarantee it seems.
on a learning curve Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 and, obviously, from OP's words, she is not getting any real pleasure from anything other than the sex act. She is in pain because this relationship is not going anywhere, and can never go anywhere while he is married to another woman. There is no real lasting pleasure. She is asking for help on how to end the pain that she is in. Her pleasure comes from the sex...so?
woinlove Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 She is asking for help on how to end the pain that she is in. Yes! I can't understand why some just want to go on about how great affairs are when this woman is specifically saying she has so much trouble ending it and worries that the only option is moving and disrupting her son's life.
on a learning curve Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Yes! I can't understand why some just want to go on about how great affairs are when this woman is specifically saying she has so much trouble ending it and worries that the only option is moving and disrupting her son's life. Omg... you just end it. If that's what you want. I am a OW. Simple.
on a learning curve Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 And she is obviously saying that besides those few minutes in which MM and OP engage in sex, she is in pain, and she wants that pain to end......what part of that did you not understand? Sex is not the only part of a relationship....a real relationship, I mean. And OP wants a real relationship, intimacy, closeness, honesty, someone to go home to and to love her all the time, not just the times he can get away from his wife. See though - there is no pain. She wants him and he wants her.
2themoon&back Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 You sound like you're just not ready to end it yet. You can intellectually know all the right things to say, to do; you can tell yourself a hundred different ways how you deserve a man for all your own, etc. but in my opinion: until you are really, truly ready, you won't end it. So maybe, paradoxically, the thing to do is to accept it as it is and for what it is. When you are ready, you'll end it. Then all the info on *how* to break things off (implement No Contact, etc. etc.) will make sense and you'll be able to do so, even if it's the hardest thing you've done. I agree with you 100%!!! There is nothing I could add but you nailed it!!! You cannot move until you are ready and you will know without a doubt when that is and not a minute sooner.
on a learning curve Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 he only wants her when he has time for her. He doesn't want to leave his wife and kids for her. Did you even read her post? Or did you just jump on the OW bandwagon, rallying for her to continue in this manner because good sex is all you need to be happy in life? Are you happy in life? I mean, really, honestly down to the core of your center happy? Because if you have to have relationships with MM to make you "happy", and if you think that sex is all there is to life, then I am sorry to be the one to say, you are not really happy. There are some deep seeded problems that you might want to find an IC to help you uncover. Are you speaking to anyone in particular? Did you read the OP post? Sex is important to a relationship; to think otherwise is foolish.
woinlove Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I disagree with 2themoon&back and OliveOyl, because I don't think a loving relationship should make one feel stuck, stupid and angry. Being with someone you love and who loves you should make you feel good, proud, satisfied, hopeful for the future,... People can get trapped in negative situations and find it difficult to get out. It doesn't mean they are not ready for or deserving of more happiness and contentment. It just means it is difficult.
on a learning curve Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 Yes, I did read it....And she says how sad she is...over, and over, and over and over again. Does your mind even register that, or did you get too excited when you read about the amazing sex? Yes, sex is an important part of a relationship, but it is not the ONLY part......sheesh, are you a teenage boy or something? She wants something real, not some part time lover. You are really angry. I'm sorry for your pain. I think I made an honest post.
alexandria35 Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 This post is so inflammatory that I don't know where to begin. Wasn't trying to be inflammatory and my post was only directed at the poster who was trying to convince the OP that she should consider herself lucky because she is getting amazing sex. Personally I think this poster insulted herself and OW in general by reducing the OP's affair and feelings to nothing more than the great sex she is getting.
alexandria35 Posted October 14, 2010 Posted October 14, 2010 I feel that this relationship with him has affected my capacity to have a proper relationship with other suitable men. I have tried, however they look wrong, smell wrong, don't kiss me like he does, and basically they are just not him...none of the other relationships I have had in the past 8 years have lasted more than a few months. I just don't want anyone but him. I know I will end up alone if I am not careful but I just don't know what to do at this stage, other than move interstate where he can't follow me again. To the OP you are not going to meet and fall in love with anyone else until you have quit this guy and gone through the grieving process. It sounds as though you try dating others in an effort to replace the MM but it just doesn't work that way. Obviously you can't replace one person with another and when you try to go about it this way it just ends up reinforcing your somewhat skewed belief that there will never be another for you. You have to be willing to go through the pain and then the healing of completely ending this relationship before you will be able to open your heart up someone else. If you are not willing to endure some temporay pain for the greater gain, then nothing is going to change and there is a good chance you will end up alone. Furthermore it's not ending up alone that is so bad...there is a good chance that many people end up alone...it's how and for whom who lived your life that will haunt you. I'm single and for all I know I may always be single but that is okay because I'm proud of the way I live my life and I'm not doing anything that I feel compromises my integrity or selfworth. When we lower our standards and expectations to hold onto a relationship that isn't healthy we run the risk of becoming bitter and angry and in my opinion that is much worse than being alone.
on a learning curve Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 Wasn't trying to be inflammatory and my post was only directed at the poster who was trying to convince the OP that she should consider herself lucky because she is getting amazing sex. Personally I think this poster insulted herself and OW in general by reducing the OP's affair and feelings to nothing more than the great sex she is getting. I appreciate what you are saying, however, I don't believe any poster was trying to convince the OP that she was "lucky for getting amazing sex". By her own admission, Juicyfruit enjoys the sex with her AP and doesn't appear to want to end the A for that reason. Until she does, it's likely the A will continue. It's not "reducing" the A, and it isn't insulting to OW who may feel similar. "Amazing sex" can be a high, and very addictive - just another way to look at it.
2themoon&back Posted October 15, 2010 Posted October 15, 2010 I disagree with 2themoon&back and OliveOyl, because I don't think a loving relationship should make one feel stuck, stupid and angry. Being with someone you love and who loves you should make you feel good, proud, satisfied, hopeful for the future,... People can get trapped in negative situations and find it difficult to get out. It doesn't mean they are not ready for or deserving of more happiness and contentment. It just means it is difficult. all i am saying you will not do anything...i.e... lose weight, stop smoking, stop an A, or end a M until YOU are ready and not a minute sooner. also you will not do it for anyone else, it has to be your choice.
Author juicyfruit62 Posted October 24, 2010 Author Posted October 24, 2010 Thanks to all who replied to my original post. A few things have happened in the past week... I went on holidays for 10 days and as usual MM rang and texted me everyday, to the point where my friends were asking me who it was who wouldn't leave me alone. When I got home he came over to see me. Later that night he had a major anxiety attack, saying he was under a lot of pressure at home and work and was having trouble coping. He ended up leaving and needless to say I wasn't impressed.. He texted me the next day to say he had left a letter in my letterbox. He basically wrote that he had always had strong feelings for me that he had denied for the past 8 years, however now these feelings had become more serious and he now realised that he was in love with me. This is from a man who has always been so careful to deny any significant emotional attachment and this is very out of character for him. It worries me. I told him I didn't want our situation to change in any way, however I'm unsure of just what he will do now. My mind has been spinning over the past couple of days, I'm crazy about him but all I can think about is if he acts on his feelings and leaves his wife, how bad i would feel about splitting up his family and that if he could be unfaithful to her for so long, then one day he would do it to me too. And then I think about having him at last....it is driving me crazy. Intellectually I know I still need to end this, however I feel like it would be cruel to do it now, just after he has admitted how much he loves me. Saying that, I know that I am justifying maintaining the affair. I am even more confused and upset about what to do.
jj33 Posted October 24, 2010 Posted October 24, 2010 You are denying your feelings to yourself and rationalizing it all away. When you get into an intimate relationship with someone, you run the "risk" that they will fall in love with you. You are in love with him. Your relationship has of course altered their marriage in some way, whether good or bad or both. You have some responsibility for the impact on the marriage tho he bears the brunt of it as he is the married person and he is the one breaking his vows. Thanks to all who replied to my original post. A few things have happened in the past week... I went on holidays for 10 days and as usual MM rang and texted me everyday, to the point where my friends were asking me who it was who wouldn't leave me alone. When I got home he came over to see me. Later that night he had a major anxiety attack, saying he was under a lot of pressure at home and work and was having trouble coping. He ended up leaving and needless to say I wasn't impressed.. He texted me the next day to say he had left a letter in my letterbox. He basically wrote that he had always had strong feelings for me that he had denied for the past 8 years, however now these feelings had become more serious and he now realised that he was in love with me. This is from a man who has always been so careful to deny any significant emotional attachment and this is very out of character for him. It worries me. I would think youd be happy hes finally owning up to his feelings I told him I didn't want our situation to change in any way, however I'm unsure of just what he will do now. My mind has been spinning over the past couple of days, I'm crazy about him but all I can think about is if he acts on his feelings and leaves his wife, how bad i would feel about splitting up his family and that if he could be unfaithful to her for so long, then one day he would do it to me too. So are you saying you never want him to leave? How fair is that to his W? How long do you expect him to live a double life? that cant be easy on him. And then I think about having him at last....it is driving me crazy. Intellectually I know I still need to end this, however I feel like it would be cruel to do it now, just after he has admitted how much he loves me. Saying that, I know that I am justifying maintaining the affair. I am even more confused and upset about what to do. If you really DONT want him to leave, why are you toying with someone else's marriage?
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