Stay at home spouse, am I being irrational?

[KwwB]

First off I'll state my complaint. I don't feel like my wife does the complete job of a stay at home wife.

 

Now for some background and information.

 

My wife and I have been married for almost 9 years now. We have four children who are the following ages: 8, 6, 3 and 19 months. My wife and I are young, I'm 27 and she is almost 27. Both of us are in good health. (Except for the pounds we both have put on since being married )

 

I work full time M-F and she is a stay at home wife. Before our first child was born she worked nearly up until the due date and since then she hasn't had a job that provides financial income.

 

Growing up my mother kept our home virtually spotless. The house was always clean, laundry didn't sit around for days, she cooked almost every meal for me and my two older sisters and my mother transported us around for school and recreational activities. Growing up she never worked outside the home. She is what I feel a stay at home wife should be. Albeit how spotless the house was I've come to find out is a little neurotic.

 

While dating my spouse I never entered her parent’s home. She always mentioned it was because she was uncomfortable with how much her brothers fought with each other. I took it at that and never thought anything about it. After being married for ~6months I entered her parent’s home for the first time... yikes! I couldn't tell what the carpets natural hue was supposed to be and there was garbage piled along the hallways and just sitting in rooms anywhere from shin to shoulder height. Every room I could see was a complete disaster. There were even rooms I couldn't even get into because of the clutter.

 

So, we both grew up with drastically different definitions of what "clean" means. Day and night if you will...

 

I appreciate the work my wife does do currently and I know I could not do what she does without several weeks of adjustment but I feel that after I got adjusted I would be able to keep a much cleaner and smoothly run home that she does right now.

 

Generally in my home right now, our couch that can comfortably sit six adults when empty can only fit one adult because of all the laundry piled on top of it. The dining table 90% of the time still has dinner on it from the previous night. It's not uncommon for the dining table to have dinner and or various other meals left on it from two, even three days ago. The carpet is so badly stained throughout the house that if we were to ever move I would replace the carpet completely. (It was pristine when we moved in) The kitchen 95% of the time is messy from various objects just left there by the kids or by my wife. Getting up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom is dangerous and I've suffered quite a few injuries whilst trying to do so. Our bedroom is one of the places that just gathers things and those things are generally there for days, weeks, months... I have to weave my way between boxes, garbage bags filled with various things, toys, dishes, ect... to make it to the bathroom.

 

I could go on and on and on with lots of other examples, feelings, how I try to coupe with this mess, what I've done to try and help, what I've done that has hindered ect... I'm curious to see what people say. If you have something like this going on in your life. Could you give me any tips? Insight?

 

What should a stay at home wife do on a daily basis? How clean should the house be? Am I being irrational?

[KwwB]

It really depends on the situation. A 3 yo and 19 mo old do make a lot of mess (I have a 3 yo and a 6yo - heck even my 6 yo is still messy). It's really frustrating for me when I've gotten the house spotless and in less than 5 minutes there's a drink spilled on the floor, toys dragged out, whatever the case may be (something ALWAYS happens). I feel like I can't win for losing sometimes.

 

I agree and understand completely. Kids will constantly make messes and wreck things you just put in place. I'm OK with that as long as it gets cleaned up, but when I find milk on the floor near the babies high chair that was there the night before it's a different story. It also blows my mind that on more than a few occasions our youngest comes into the room where my wife and I are and drops her sippy cup and it spills out some milk on the carpet and my wife doesn't do anything about it. I have to get up and spot it out then clean it. A few times I've just let it sit like my wife has because after 8 years (we spent the first year at my parents house) I'm so beat down with how messy things are I feel like giving up. It doesn't happen like this ALL the time, just more often than not.

 

That sounds like a lack of self discipline to me, but it's probably a culmination of the environment she was raised in, a bit of laziness, and frustration.

 

Your correct on this as well. My wife and I have talked about this many times and she admits that she never learned how to properly clean and when she gets behind on something she gets frustrated, and usually gives up, making things worse. I don't know what to do at this point as we have talked about this many times. Sometimes in a calm supportive manner and very few times in an destructive manner. I love my wife and hold my tongue more often than not because I don't want to make her feel bad, but after all these years I find my mind going places that scare me.

 

I think your W needs to learn a new routine. If it were me, I'd take some time with her and start going through the rooms and de-clutter so there's room for things. Once items have a place, it's easier for them to go back in their place.

 

My wife has tried to find a new routine. She has tried for a few years now to do this "Fly Lady" thing. It helps when she sticks to it, but things generally get better for awhile then get bad for a long time. Up and down. I'll try and figure out a way to help her de-clutter the house. I know I'll feel like I'm cleaning the house and she isn't, but I'll have to suck it up and help her get on the right path. If it goes to all hell again... /sigh

 

You mentioned an extra room where things accumulate. Can you make that a dedicated play room for the kids?

 

That room I mentioned is our bedroom. Things go in there because it's an "easy and out of sight" place to hide things when company is coming over. I will NEVER let anyone outside my immediate family go inside my bedroom, ever.

[KwwB]

I did what I wanted, and what I didn't want to do, I didn't. Seems as if the two of you need to have a meeting of the minds. Calm conversation and respect will probably get you a long way.

 

The thing is we have and do talk about it. Generally it ends up with her "shutting down" because no matter how I approach her about it she feels like I'm attacking her.

 

When she asks for help with something I do it. When I get frustrated with how something is I usually start cleaning stuff up which leads to a tense situation because she knows I'm upset. Even when I'm not upset and trying to clean things up to help out she generally assumes the worst and a myriad of emotions/activities/whatever happen which once again usually make things worse.

[Citizen Erased]

My mother is like yours OP, except she also worked. I think she had more hours in her day than everyone else. I couldn't live like that. Kids are messy but not that messy, not dirty dishes and laundry everywhere messy.

 

You need to talk with her. She is probably frustrated, 4 kids is a lot and she doesn't need you holding things against her that can be worked out. Is there a possibility of having someone come through and clean the house say once a week? It could help. Obviously upkeep the other 6 days should be done but it could still help.

[KwwB]

My mother is like yours OP, except she also worked. I think she had more hours in her day than everyone else. I couldn't live like that. Kids are messy but not that messy, not dirty dishes and laundry everywhere messy.

 

You need to talk with her. She is probably frustrated, 4 kids is a lot and she doesn't need you holding things against her that can be worked out. Is there a possibility of having someone come through and clean the house say once a week? It could help. Obviously upkeep the other 6 days should be done but it could still help.

 

We have also talked about this. I've been more than supportive with having a maid come once, maybe even twice a week until things get under control. My wife has said she will think about it. This conversation has happened four times over the past 6 months. Each time she said she will think about it and get back to me. A few times I've almost called up a maid company but I'm wary of the recourse that could happen when I've told my wife that a maid is coming next week...

[machiavellian]

http://www.flylady.net/

 

I definitely would not be able to live in an environment like you described...but it seems like you should have dated enough prior to getting married that you were aware of how she is, so it seems unfair to expect her to change to any great extent. Maybe a maid could come in once in awhile to help out, at least to keep things sanitary.

[KwwB]

http://www.flylady.net/

 

I definitely would not be able to live in an environment like you described...but it seems like you should have dated enough prior to getting married that you were aware of how she is, so it seems unfair to expect her to change to any great extent. Maybe a maid could come in once in awhile to help out, at least to keep things sanitary.

 

We dated for a year before getting married. I just took her word at face value for why she never let anyone inside her parents home.

 

I have things in my past that she wishes she knew about before we got married as well. Skeleton in the closet type stuff. No body is perfect.

 

She has been trying to Flylady thing for awhile now. Like I said before it helps for awhile then it all comes crashing down again.

[HappyAtLast]

Ouch, this is a tough situation. Is there any possibility (and I am going merely on your descriptions of your home currently and that of her parents, that she has some type of a hoarding problem?

[carhill]

Hire the maid, three days a week. Money comes out of the discretionary income your wife uses for herself and the kids.

 

Pick one day and commit yourself to half of it for the beautification of your home. Spouse and all children save for the infant get to help. No discussion. You're a man. Lead.

 

She'll learn the meaning of the word 'attacked'

[machiavellian]

We dated for a year before getting married. I just took her word at face value for why she never let anyone inside her parents home.

 

I have things in my past that she wishes she knew about before we got married as well. Skeleton in the closet type stuff. No body is perfect.

 

She has been trying to Flylady thing for awhile now. Like I said before it helps for awhile then it all comes crashing down again.

 

Sorry, but in that case I don't think you can reasonably expect her to change. Like I said, I wouldn't be able to live like that, so I understand your frustration, but it's not her fault that her (in)ability to clean does not live up to your expectations.

 

Missed the part where you said that she had been trying flylady.

 

My advice is, screw what your wife would say about having a maid come in and just do it. You don't want your children being raised in the same unsanitary and cluttered environment she was raised in do you? Then, as soon as you think they are old enough, make them start earning an allowance by doing chores, so they don't pick up your wife's bad habits.

[carhill]

BTW, if described accurately, the old food out for days issue could be considered a health and safety hazard for your youngsters in some jurisdictions. Also, such conditions are attractive to insect pests which are also a health and safety hazard. Where I live parents can lose custody of their children for issues like that.

 

When a deserving friend or colleague appeared in need, especially after giving birth or while caring for an elderly parent, I would call in MerryMaids and give them the gift of maid service for a month. Nothing like a clean, fresh home to lift the spirits.

 

Speaking of which, I'd suggest having your wife examined by her doctor. Make sure she's in good physical condition and no abnormalities show up in her blood panels. Sometimes, physical issues can create emotional and psychological issues.

 

Good luck

[florence of suburbia]

We both work full time and I would love, love, love to have a maid come. If my husband were willing to spend the money I would hire one tomorrow. What is holding her back on that one?

[Holding-On]

Sorry, but in that case I don't think you can reasonably expect her to change. Like I said, I wouldn't be able to live like that, so I understand your frustration, but it's not her fault that her (in)ability to clean does not live up to your expectations.

 

Missed the part where you said that she had been trying flylady.

 

My advice is, screw what your wife would say about having a maid come in and just do it. You don't want your children being raised in the same unsanitary and cluttered environment she was raised in do you? Then, as soon as you think they are old enough, make them start earning an allowance by doing chores, so they don't pick up your wife's bad habits.

 

Maybe instead of a maid you could bring in an organizer? These type of people work with the extremely messy a lot.

You have to understand that your wife does try. Clearly she was raised with it. It is comfortable to her. She has to really notice the messes.

 

She has 4 kids (that's a lot). Even if your mother was extremely clean you are only likely to remember your home from about 7 or 8 on. Given that you are the youngest, that means she was not dealing with two very young children at the time you remember.

 

I like that you can own up to your bad habits (whatever these "skeletons" are). Try to keep that in mind as you work through this. It will be a lot easier when the kids are older if you get help now.

 

Best of luck to you!

Oh and if she finds a method that works for her please share it here. I'd like to try it too!

[Stung]

Maybe instead of a maid you could bring in an organizer? These type of people work with the extremely messy a lot.

You have to understand that your wife does try. Clearly she was raised with it. It is comfortable to her. She has to really notice the messes.

She has 4 kids (that's a lot). Even if your mother was extremely clean you are only likely to remember your home from about 7 or 8 on. Given that you are the youngest, that means she was not dealing with two very young children at the time you remember.

 

)

 

The previous poster made some really great points. Also, your wife might feel less threatened by a one-time major organizer, at least to begin with.

 

I wondered, reading your post, just why your wife is staying at home. Is it because she truly loves it, or does she feel it is expected? Even if it was her idea in the first place, this is several years and kids later--has her happiness/contentment level been addressed? Is it possible she is just not cut out for it, finds it isolating and depressing, and is struggling to conform to a role she assumes she is locked into?

 

I am a SAHM who previously worked all my life and while I treasure my time with my kids and think it is valuable bonding and learning for all of us, I had a hard time adjusting to it and I still struggle with certain aspects of it sometimes, the 24-hour-on-call nature of having very young children, the sleep deprivation, the constant busywork, the isolation from other adults. I hate domestic work and it can be difficult to find time to balance doing it along with spending real quality/educational time with the kids and running errands and spending time with my husband. If I had poor domestic-skills from the get-go and no role models, and/or if I were struggling with depression, I could see my own house falling into chaos--as it is, I do look forward to going back to work part-time in the next few months, I think it will be the best of both worlds for me and my family, and help keep me engaged and invigorated. Perhaps it is time to have a real talk about what you both envision for your future--what would she think about going back to work, or school, say when your youngest turns two? What would you think about that?

 

In any case, while I definitely advocate some major communication with your wife, I would not wait on getting the maid or organizer in the meantime. It IS your home too, and it's potentially bad for your children, both in terms of hygiene and in terms of modeling bad patterns. Your wife sounds defensive but you have tried to respect that for several years now, while you don't need to rub her nose in it, you don't need to coddle her forever at everyone else's expense, either.

 

BTW, when you are having the talk with your wife, don't compare her to your mom. Friendly tip.

 

Good luck.

[coffeecat]

Have you tried cleaning up the house? Seriously, if she sees you coming home from work and visibly so frustrated with the house that you start cleaning it yourself is there a chance she will feel guilty and try to be organized?

 

I say this from experience because my husband is far more clean, and organized than I am. When we first got married we had many fights and power struggles over how 'clean' a house should be. What really got me to conform more to his standards is guilt. I couldn't stand that he would come home from work and be so irritated that he would do things himself. Another thing that helped me become more organized is simply my children growing up and the need to make THEIR lives more organized. I have a friend who says "when my house is a mess, my mind is a mess".

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Stung made some VERY good points. Send her away for a week, take vacation and live a day or seven in her shoes! I have to say that the BEST point in this thread was over looked! FLYLADY.NET! Love me some flylady! She helps you develop habits. I few little steps a day keeps the CHAOS (cant have anyone over syndrome) away! She helps HORDS of SHEs (Side-tracked Home Executives) find their way out of the clutter and find joy in it. She teaches baby steps. Has FaceBook and email reminders during the day, "don't try to catch up, just jump right in".

 

We moved to a house 6 times the size of the house we lived in, I found flylady. The extra room was great for staying organized but cleaning the monster was putting me over the edge. (I've NEVER left dishes on the table before, sink maybe, but not the table!) The first think Flylady covers is the kitchen. Shine your sink!

 

Seriously, check out Flylady and maybe get into it together! Tons of people swear by it!

 

Having that many young kids can be over whelming. Fighting a never ending battle of laundry, dishes and toys can be overwhelming. It NEVER ends. No days off on the weekend. Why sweep the kitchen floor when its going to be cover again in an hour? Really the futility of it all can be quite depressing, ESPECIALLY when you live in an area that doesn't have adequate storage, room ect... Kids take up a TON of space...

 

Maybe you should be understanding, and discover FLYLADY together, make it fun, that's kind of what its all about! And a once a week maid to handle the deep cleaning would be an awfully nice thing if you can afford it.

[giotto]

We both work full time and I would love, love, love to have a maid come. If my husband were willing to spend the money I would hire one tomorrow. What is holding her back on that one?

 

And what is holding you back? You work full time... who does most of the housework? If it's you, then spend your money to hire some help... surely you don't have to ask permission for that? As long as you are not spending his money?

[EnigmasMuse]

Wow 4 kids? Maybe part of it is she feels frustrated, tired, and stressed. Taking care of kids and a home is a job in itself, She may feel depressed and overwhelmed as well. Perhaps you both are feeling a little under appreciated? Maybe because you work and bring home the moo-lah and she helps with kids etc? Perhaps counseling could be of help. A compromise of some kind would be great I'm sure.

[giotto]

well, I can only say that we have 4 kids too and full-time jobs... the house is a bit messy, but you can't have everything...

[JackJack]

"but I feel that after I got adjusted I would be able to keep a much cleaner and smoothly run home that she does right now".

 

Maybe you both should switch roles. You stay home, and she her go to work?

 

My wife and I both work. We do not however, have any kids. BUT sometimes, we are both so tired from working its hard to always keep a very clean house and we get to it when we can. So I can only imagine what it must be like with 4 kids, on top of trying to keep up a clean home.

Edited October 6, 2010 by JackJack

[kuma]

While dating my spouse I never entered her parent’s home. She always mentioned it was because she was uncomfortable with how much her brothers fought with each other. I took it at that and never thought anything about it. After being married for ~6months I entered her parent’s home for the first time... yikes! I couldn't tell what the carpets natural hue was supposed to be and there was garbage piled along the hallways and just sitting in rooms anywhere from shin to shoulder height. Every room I could see was a complete disaster. There were even rooms I couldn't even get into because of the clutter.

 

IMO, she refuses to hire a maid because she's ashamed of the condition of the house. Maybe you and your wife should clean the whole house before calling a maid service. Make your house presentable. Like other posters said, I recommend flylady. Or you can make a daily/weekly house cleaning checklist and she can follow the schedule. She may be overwhelmed, so start small. And don't forget to complement her on her accomplishments. Good luck:)

Edited October 6, 2010 by kuma

[Holding-On]

If you watch the show "Hoarders" (either the learning channel or the A&E ones - there are some streaming) you may find it enlightening what she might have lived through. There is a whole website developed for children of hoarders.

Basically being told NOT to touch stuff your whole life it may be hard to work through all that while having small kids and dealing with whatever that brings up from childhood.

 

Anyway, the organizer should be used to this type of mess and your house will probably look much cleaner in comparison (which will help your wife feel better and more likely to accept an organizer).

 

I think you should watch those shows with your wife! - it might be a great communication aid (something to talk about - were her parents like that? did they not let her clean stuff/touch their stuff growing up? How did she feel about not having people over? what life does she want/you want for your kids? etc..)

[BB07]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that your in-laws are most likely hoarders and it sounds like your wife has the tendency to be also. You both need to work together to nip this in the bud before it gets worse.

 

Opps.......someone did mention it.

[KwwB]

"but I feel that after I got adjusted I would be able to keep a much cleaner and smoothly run home that she does right now".

 

Maybe you both should switch roles. You stay home, and she her go to work?

 

My wife and I both work. We do not however, have any kids. BUT sometimes, we are both so tired from working its hard to always keep a very clean house and we get to it when we can. So I can only imagine what it must be like with 4 kids, on top of trying to keep up a clean home.

 

I've mentioned this to here a few times before. Sadly I can't think of a time that it was done in a loving manner. Normally after things get a little heated and she mentions something about it not being as easy as I think it is ect... I bring it up. I would be willing to do it but it wouldn't be financially probable. The possibility of her getting a job that pays enough to support our family is slim to nil.

 

I'll watch an episode of Hoarders and see how it is. From what the show sounds like I wouldn't be surprised if her parents are considered hoarders.

 

I'm almost positive that she is stalling on a maid because of how she feels about how our home is currently. She also feels like it would mean she can't do her job and is a failure. Because of my love and respect for her I will wait on hiring a maid / organizer until we have talked about it thoroughly and have cleaned up the house quite a bit together.

 

This is my list so far:

 

1. Talk to my wife about hiring a maid / professional organizer again. Get her to commit to cleaning the house thoroughly on a Saturday (or two) with myself and the kids so she feels comfortable with said "professional" coming over.

 

1a. BE SUPPORTIVE! Reminder her how much she is loved and that I appreciate what she does.

 

2. Clean the house as stated above. Possibly get my sister to help as she knows of the situation and has told me and my wife that she would be willing to help out with a "clean sweep".

 

2a. BE SUPPORTIVE! Reminder her how much she is loved and that I appreciate what she does.

 

3. After cleaning is done contact "professional" and set it up.

 

3a. BE SUPPORTIVE! Reminder her how much she is loved and that I appreciate what she does.

 

4. Work with my wife on ideas for daily / weekly chores for our two oldest daughters. Also try and remind her to enforce good daily "cleaning" habits in our two youngest while I'm at work.

 

4a. BE SUPPORTIVE! Reminder her how much she is loved and that I appreciate what she does.

 

5. Seek counseling for myself and/or my wife. Hopefully this will help with keeping the house clean and generally improve our quality of life.

 

5a. BE SUPPORTIVE! Reminder her how much she is loved and that I appreciate what she does.

 

That's all I have so far. Thank you so much for everyone's help so far! I very much appreciate it. Please keep the ideas coming and feel free to add things onto the list you think would be good to do

Edited October 6, 2010 by KwwB

[Ariadne]

Hi KwwB,

 

You will have to hire a maid for this.

 

I think your wife (though not sure at first) will love the help.

 

Good luck.