Snowflower Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Thanks, I see what you mean. MM's counselor started off as his wife's individual counselor, a long time ago. Then she brought MM and for awhile the counselor was their couple's counselor, again a long time ago and then I think a bit more recently. Now he is seeing her on his own. I always thought this would create a conflict because now his wife, who was the counselor's first patient, couldn't really go back to counseling on her own, because now the counselor has MM's point of view in mind, right? And if they wanted to do marriage counseling again, well, the counselor would already know way more of MM's side of the story, right? So I didn't know it could work this way and I don't really agree with it... I feel like if I were a counselor I would only see the couple or an individual and never one individual, and then the couple, and then the other individual... basically whoever is willing to pay me at the time. I think it depends on the counselor, TBH. The situation with the counselor seeing one spouse and then the other and then as a couple is unusual but not unheard of. It depends on the approach that the counselor uses. In my own sitch, I saw the counselor first for a series of sessions (my H had been acting weird and was questioning our marriage--because he was having an affair I found out later). Then, my counselor and I agreed to ask my H to come in for a couple of sessions--more like marriage counseling. Unfortunately there were a disaster because unknown to me and the counselor at that time my H had a huge secret--the affair. Most anyone will tell you that MC doesn't work if the affair is ongoing. A couple of months later, my H asked me if he could talk to "my" counselor--I later learned that he was trying to figure out what the heck he was doing in an affair. "My" counselor agreed to talk to him in order to refer him to another counselor. This was her approach because of the potential confusion and conflict of interest. But I do know that some counselors who do MC will see each spouse individually, as well. It just depends on the counselor's approach. I understand your concern about the conflict of interest, but if your MM counselor is no longer seeing the wife as a patient or as a couple...then there is no conflict or even bias? But if they did go back to MC, the counselor would know a lot of the MM side of the story which might be beneficial to the couples counseling. That is what happened in my situation, where my perspective was well known by the counselor but my husband's was not. But that didn't matter, at least in my own sitch. BTW, I'm no expert on counseling "norms" I'm just going by my own experience which seemed similar to what your MM described. Not sure if I'm helping but it's just my best guess.
Star_Bright Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 We had a scenario similiar to this and it worked for us. Here is why: I had been seeing this counselor for a while, when DDAY struck. Then my H started to see him. At that point, I suppose, he had both sides of the marriage and both sides of all stories. And at that point, what we each said in individual counseling could never be repeated to the other or used against the other. That would be a violation of ethics. No one is ever told what to do, although all options are explored and considered. The goal is to get the client to decide what choice they believe is in their best interests....and then to own it. OK, I see, I guess that makes sense. Thanks.
Star_Bright Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I think it depends on the counselor, TBH. The situation with the counselor seeing one spouse and then the other and then as a couple is unusual but not unheard of. It depends on the approach that the counselor uses. In my own sitch, I saw the counselor first for a series of sessions (my H had been acting weird and was questioning our marriage--because he was having an affair I found out later). Then, my counselor and I agreed to ask my H to come in for a couple of sessions--more like marriage counseling. Unfortunately there were a disaster because unknown to me and the counselor at that time my H had a huge secret--the affair. Most anyone will tell you that MC doesn't work if the affair is ongoing. A couple of months later, my H asked me if he could talk to "my" counselor--I later learned that he was trying to figure out what the heck he was doing in an affair. "My" counselor agreed to talk to him in order to refer him to another counselor. This was her approach because of the potential confusion and conflict of interest. But I do know that some counselors who do MC will see each spouse individually, as well. It just depends on the counselor's approach. I understand your concern about the conflict of interest, but if your MM counselor is no longer seeing the wife as a patient or as a couple...then there is no conflict or even bias? But if they did go back to MC, the counselor would know a lot of the MM side of the story which might be beneficial to the couples counseling. That is what happened in my situation, where my perspective was well known by the counselor but my husband's was not. But that didn't matter, at least in my own sitch. BTW, I'm no expert on counseling "norms" I'm just going by my own experience which seemed similar to what your MM described. Not sure if I'm helping but it's just my best guess. Ok. So this is not unusual. I see. Thanks.
Snowflower Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 We had a scenario similiar to this and it worked for us. Here is why: I had been seeing this counselor for a while, when DDAY struck. Then my H started to see him. At that point, I suppose, he had both sides of the marriage and both sides of all stories. And at that point, what we each said in individual counseling could never be repeated to the other or used against the other. That would be a violation of ethics. No one is ever told what to do, although all options are explored and considered. The goal is to get the client to decide what choice they believe is in their best interests....and then to own it. Yes, this!! Very similar to my situation that I tried to describe. So, this approach might be somewhat the norm in IC/MC although certainly not the only way to approach the issues.
Star_Bright Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I do know that if I were going to couple's counseling I wouldn't want my partner to be seeing the therapist separately, or me to be seeing her separately, because to me I would want her to see just the couple as her patient, not each of us separately. And if I had my own therapist I would not want my partner to start seeing them, with or without me, because I would feel like that was MY own special place. But I get that other options work for other people.
Spark1111 Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 I do know that if I were going to couple's counseling I wouldn't want my partner to be seeing the therapist separately, or me to be seeing her separately, because to me I would want her to see just the couple as her patient, not each of us separately. And if I had my own therapist I would not want my partner to start seeing them, with or without me, because I would feel like that was MY own special place. But I get that other options work for other people. Oh, that works well too. You absolutely have a right to privacy in IC, and if it made you uncomfortable to share, than your IC could maybe suggest someone else for your SO. Then, both attend MC with a third counselor. That is pretty common too. And NONE of those three counselors would EVER tell you to go or stay with a SO. Their goal is to get you to identify your own feelings and to tell THEM what your goal will be.
Star_Bright Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Oh, that works well too. You absolutely have a right to privacy in IC, and if it made you uncomfortable to share, than your IC could maybe suggest someone else for your SO. Then, both attend MC with a third counselor. That is pretty common too. And NONE of those three counselors would EVER tell you to go or stay with a SO. Their goal is to get you to identify your own feelings and to tell THEM what your goal will be. Ok, good to know, because I am going to start counseling as soon as my insurance kicks in next month. I WISH they would give me advice though; I know they would say, step away from MM, and I need to hear it, and to have someone help me stick to it. I don't get why they can't give advice but I guess I'll go find out and see what it's all about. And if I do make it with MM, which at this point seems preposterous, then I think we would need couple's counseling and it's nice to know we could go to a second one on our own. (He already sees one so that would make three. )
Author Silly_Girl Posted October 5, 2010 Author Posted October 5, 2010 Ok, good to know, because I am going to start counseling as soon as my insurance kicks in next month. I WISH they would give me advice though; I know they would say, step away from MM, and I need to hear it, and to have someone help me stick to it. I don't get why they can't give advice but I guess I'll go find out and see what it's all about. And if I do make it with MM, which at this point seems preposterous, then I think we would need couple's counseling and it's nice to know we could go to a second one on our own. (He already sees one so that would make three. ) Star Bright, I think your comments are a little flippant because you are often perceptive and aware. What on earth would be the point in a counsellor TELLING you to stay away from a man. My parents used to tell me not to drink under age or spend all my hard-earned student job money on over-priced clothes. Hhmmm, that worked For me there were/are some keys issues about counselling. Things I found to be helpful and enlightening. One was "...so how did you FEEL about that?". Used to really pi££ me off. Partly because I wasn't used to articulating myself in quite those terms, and partly because I perhaps hadn't wanted to assert so clearly a negative feeling in respect of someone I love very much. Not always my fella, but a family member or close friend. But in doing so it 'tidied' things for me. I could describe scenarios that were hard and use words, instead of cringeing inwardly and it just being a big ol' ball of emotional 'stuff'. And I try and do that on my own a bit too now. Secondly she takes me down various paths. Boy I needed that!!! So we talk around if X happens (I lose my home in the settlement with my ex) or Y (my guy suddenly decides he's made a huge mistake and runs back to his wife), and asks me what I'll do. And that stuff is TOUGH. but it focusses the mind. And it sure as hell makes the future a whole less scary. Because, for ten minutes or so, I was THERE, and dealing with it. And can, if I have to, deal with it. And, I can sometimes over-react... by fast-forwarding to an outcome I'm able to push the upset and anxiety of it to one side and see it more clearly; quite often what I've seen is that my reaction (ahem - tantrum?) will not make the blindest bit of difference to the end result and I save myself a lot of wasted energy and stress. It also is a focus. A tool. If something REALLY gets my goat I think 'I'll save that for my session' and I park it. Quite often I then don't need to rant or reason. It's gone. Counselling helped me to forgive myself on some things. That impartial person pointing out the simple facts inside my own truth. I would think my friends were being kind because they love me. My counsellor doesn't love me but is able to kindly and dispassionately point out when I'm saying something quite ridiculous or unfair in respect of myself. It's been really positive for me. I hope to continue the process to some degree even after I stop seeing her. There's other plusses to IC in my view, but I must get the dinner on
NoIDidn't Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Counsellors are people too! LOL. Seriously, I think the posters saying that a counsellor told their MW/MM what to do is repeating the interpretation of the MP not what the counsellor actually said. But, as has already been said here, they may be leaning in one direction or another and the interpretation may not be all that far off. I've never had a counsellor tell me what to do. I've asked if I was crazy. I was never told that the counsellor felt I was crazy...or not. I've asked if I should stay with my H. I was told to consider the realities of what I was considering. My H and I went to separate ICs. I didn't like his too much because it seemed to focus on HIM too much. LOL. But that was exactly what the counsellor was supposed to do. There are some pretty bad counsellors out there. There have been posters who say that their therapists have encouraged them to stay in affairs to "see what might happen" or something to that effect. Some have said that the therapists have told them that the W was crazy or something else negative. Something that most therapists are professional enough to never say. So this thing is quite widespread here in the forums with people passing off what they think as if it were what the therapist truly stated. I've several friends IRL that are therapists, including a few family members, so I'm very familiar with the things they are and aren't allowed to say professionally. I can't even get some of these friends to be frank with me - at least not until I've actually made my final decision -- because they don't want to color my judgment (or possibly feel responsible for me feeling like they led me to make a poor decision).
Star_Bright Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Star Bright, I think your comments are a little flippant because you are often perceptive and aware. What on earth would be the point in a counsellor TELLING you to stay away from a man. My parents used to tell me not to drink under age or spend all my hard-earned student job money on over-priced clothes. Hhmmm, that worked For me there were/are some keys issues about counselling. Things I found to be helpful and enlightening. One was "...so how did you FEEL about that?". Used to really pi££ me off. Partly because I wasn't used to articulating myself in quite those terms, and partly because I perhaps hadn't wanted to assert so clearly a negative feeling in respect of someone I love very much. Not always my fella, but a family member or close friend. But in doing so it 'tidied' things for me. I could describe scenarios that were hard and use words, instead of cringeing inwardly and it just being a big ol' ball of emotional 'stuff'. And I try and do that on my own a bit too now. Secondly she takes me down various paths. Boy I needed that!!! So we talk around if X happens (I lose my home in the settlement with my ex) or Y (my guy suddenly decides he's made a huge mistake and runs back to his wife), and asks me what I'll do. And that stuff is TOUGH. but it focusses the mind. And it sure as hell makes the future a whole less scary. Because, for ten minutes or so, I was THERE, and dealing with it. And can, if I have to, deal with it. And, I can sometimes over-react... by fast-forwarding to an outcome I'm able to push the upset and anxiety of it to one side and see it more clearly; quite often what I've seen is that my reaction (ahem - tantrum?) will not make the blindest bit of difference to the end result and I save myself a lot of wasted energy and stress. It also is a focus. A tool. If something REALLY gets my goat I think 'I'll save that for my session' and I park it. Quite often I then don't need to rant or reason. It's gone. Counselling helped me to forgive myself on some things. That impartial person pointing out the simple facts inside my own truth. I would think my friends were being kind because they love me. My counsellor doesn't love me but is able to kindly and dispassionately point out when I'm saying something quite ridiculous or unfair in respect of myself. It's been really positive for me. I hope to continue the process to some degree even after I stop seeing her. There's other plusses to IC in my view, but I must get the dinner on Wasn't trying to be flippant... just a bit scared to go to therapy... but recognize that I really need to! Thanks for sharing ways in which it helped you.
Star_Bright Posted October 5, 2010 Posted October 5, 2010 Star Bright I dont trust him I dont like him lol Hmmmm, I really trust your judgment, I think you are quite wise. So perhaps you are right about my MM.
Recommended Posts