24 hrs nc...not like him...fearing d-day

[bentnotbroken]

If Karma is not like me, who is telling everyone who I am sleeping with. The only reason our relationship is secret is because my MM cares about appearances, I don't. The same could very well be true of Karma.

 

As I said before the BS isn't the only one concerned with appearances and I do believe I mentioned lying cheating spouses.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Pure curiosity here...what is it that 'everyone else' wants to change about him?

 

Just one example... He's a good ol country boy that drives a pickup wears steel toe boots, has hard working man hands and wears camo shorts, and mows his own lawn still. I love these traits...she on the other hand tells him he looks like white trash and is lowering their property value. All he wants is to be accepted for who he is.

[KarmasTestDummy]

I assume you know how he is with you. I used to work as a PI part-time for 13yrs and I very well do know how to put together pieces of the puzzle from bits of information. Nothing I have come up with about your MM is based on my own life experiences but instead from the information you have provided us. It is quit possible he has been cheated on but its also very possible he hasn't. Sometimes people who are in an A and are on the married side of the A have so much guilt that they begin to suspect their BS of the very thing they are doing. Not because the BS has done it, maybe they've done some things but not what they WS is thinking. Their logic can get clouded by guilt. All I'm saying about your MM is it sounds like he set out to have an affair prior to meeting you. That is in fact calculated. It didn't "just happen". And there are a few holes in his story that he is telling you. Thats all. Everything else aside, I do get why you take your stance as to not say anything. You don't want her to take him to the cleaners financially....totally get that.

And I'm a corporate analyst and almost have my masters degree. I'm not a dumb woman either and know how to evaluate a situation as well.

[porter218]

And I'm a corporate analyst and almost have my masters degree. I'm not a dumb woman either and know how to evaluate a situation as well.

 

And I too. Thats not what I am saying. I don't doubt your intelligence one bit, Not at all. The difference between you and I, is that I have no invested interest in this situation, 3rd party looking on with no preconceived notions. No matter what the reason, he is unhappy and I wish you two the best. I'm glad you offer him no judgment and appreciate him for who he is. I hope he gets out before he gets caught. That would be very unfortunate...do be careful. One thing you need to remember if you truly care for him and intend to eventually be with him publicly, you must remember he has children...which are half his BS's. Respect for her eventually will be a must if you don't want to hurt the kids.

[jennie-jennie]

As I said before the BS isn't the only one concerned with appearances and I do believe I mentioned lying cheating spouses.

 

Apparently this does not apply to Karma's case.

 

I forgot to mention he's not ashamed of me' either. His entire family knows about mr from his mom, step-dad, dad, sisters, best friend, boss, coworkers, neighbor, even his mechanic. It would be pretty difficult to get all these people telling the same story just to continue with an affair...and if he were, damn I'm flattered, thats a whole lot of effort, I must be worth it.

[bentnotbroken]

Apparently this does not apply to Karma's case.

 

 

Sure it does. If his wife doesn't know, he is keeping up the appearance of being faithfully married. Punk move.

[jennie-jennie]

Sure it does. If his wife doesn't know, he is keeping up the appearance of being faithfully married. Punk move.

 

I thought we were talking about how things looked to the outside world, not within the marriage.

[whichwayisup]

His entire family knows about mr from his mom, step-dad, dad, sisters, best friend, boss, coworkers, neighbor, even his mechanic. It would be pretty difficult to get all these people telling the same story just to continue with an affair...and if he were, damn I'm flattered, thats a whole lot of effort, I must be worth it.

 

So everybody knows but his own wife. Real nice.. Remember how he's treating her now. How he's lying and gaslighting her. One day he may be YOUR husband.

 

I guess I don't understand his logic here.

[bentnotbroken]

I thought we were talking about how things looked to the outside world, not within the marriage.

 

 

I don't know what you were talking about. I am talking about a cheating, lying person who appears to have a network of cheating lying people because he is so put upon. But no one has the guts or integrity to speak up against the abuse that he is being assaulted with. No one is putting a stop to this mess, yet supporting lying.

[bentnotbroken]

So everybody knows but his own wife. Real nice.. Remember how he's treating her now. How he's lying and gaslighting her. One day he may be YOUR husband.

 

I guess I don't understand his logic here.

 

 

That's because there is no logic here.

[bentnotbroken]

I thought about that, too, but that's a pretty elaborate scheme. Also, because her picture is in those profiles, it's too much of a risk that someone who knows her would see those profiles. How would he explain that to his wife if she found out about it?

 

 

Apparently since his whole family knows and even the mechanic and no one is speaking up, it appears elaborate schemes are par for the course with this man and his family.

[whichwayisup]

That's because there is no logic here.

Then all the more reason to think that the guy is just loving the affair and loving making a total fool of his wife. For everyone to know but her, yet there's almost D_Day, he downplays it to his wife, just shows that he really has no intention of leaving his wife. Perfect opportunity to just come clean, divorce his wife so she can move on and heal, find someone who will love only her.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Wow, so much for this being an OW SUPPORT forum. Apparently nobody here has ever been in an A and kept anything from a BS. Ahhh well! Makes no difference to me. These judgments do not impact my decisions and choices. At this point you're just throwing stones at the woman with the scarlet letter. Hope it makes you feel superior. I really could care less whether anyone thinks what I'm doing is right or wrong. I only answer to my own standards of happiness and morality.

[Angel1111]

I am not following you now. It is the LS posters that are doing the second-guessing, not Karma, as far as I can see.

 

Karma has obviously considered all the possibilities that have been talked about here, which is just another form of second-guessing. But as I stated earlier, if she's happy with the way things are, and with what she's being told, then that's great.

[KarmasTestDummy]

Karma has obviously considered all the possibilities that have been talked about here, which is just another form of second-guessing. But as I stated earlier, if she's happy with the way things are, and with what she's being told, then that's great.

 

I am, thank you.

[Silly_Girl]

I am sure she cares as much about opinion as you do. If you didn't care you would be dancing down the street telling everyone who you are sleeping with. So don't throw that out there like the BS is the only one who cares about appearances. The WS and AP who fight to keep the relationship a secret do the exact same thing for what ever excuses they can come up with.

 

Bent, do the AP's generally fight to keep the A a secret, on your view? How?

[KarmasTestDummy]

Bent, do the AP's generally fight to keep the A a secret, on your view? How?

 

Do out of respect for my mm's wishes. He would have very little trust and faith in me if I was deliberately throwing him under the bus to his w. And how is simple too, I know when he's home with his family...evenings and weekends, and I respect their time together unless he reaches out to talk to me first. That means I do not try to text him during dinner, him helping with homework, or bathing his kids. I do not contact him when I know he is having family bbq's at his moms or taking his daughter to soccer practice. If he tells me he needs to plug his phone in I know that means it will be sitting out where his w can see it and messaging prior to hearing from him would be a deliberate attempt to bust him. Yes...I think many AP do actually play into keeping the secret. It would turn my world upside down as much as his own.

[KarmasTestDummy]

KTD:

 

It sounds like you know what you're doing and you are satisfied with your R.

 

You are right that it doesn't matter what anyone says here. They don't pay your bills or know you or your man.

 

When I was in my A, of course I didn't go and tell her. How dumb! I loved my MM and would never betray him that way.

 

You do not have to answer to anyone else's standard of morality. Happiness is something that eludes many so when you find it, hold tight to it and appreciate it as long as you can.

 

EEG

 

Thank you very much EEG! But lol let it be said before that turns into another stoning...I pay MY OWN bills. I get nothing from mm that would be motive to continue this lie. I love him and would not betray him, period.

[newlife2010]

I don't know about this one - that sounds very suspicious because when doctor's / people from the medical profession in general - call and have to leave a message, they NEVER go into details or hint about what's going on because you never know who heard the message.

I dunno, I just find that part of his story very unlikely.

Especially the "are you ok with your decision" part. I dunno - it just strikes me as unlikely that a doctor really left that on a voicemail message.

 

Karma, I don't know this guy, obviously not like you do. But I think you're taking his word for gospel, and I just think you should be careful. I'd hate to see you get hurt.

 

I'm a physician. So I am very well informed about the HIPAA regulations and what can and can't be said. No legitimate physician in this day and age would leave a voice mail to whoever might get it, saying anything detailed about a patient. Even directly to a patient.... a spouse does not have the right to hear it unless the patient says so.

 

So yes, this message seems odd to me too.

[woinlove]

Apparently nobody here has ever been in an A and kept anything from a BS.

 

I don't think it is the A per se. I think people are reacting to the fact that your MM has a whole network of family, friends, coworkers and even a mechanic in the know of his A, while keeping it all secret by lying to his W. This is not a usual situation and having such an extensive network of A supporters increases the betrayal considerably and also tends to immerse one in a culture of infidelity, so that may become the norm. If he left his W and he actually wanted to leave infidelity behind also, he might have to disengage from his extensive network too.

[daisy love]

OMG! You poor thing! My MM says that he loves me and is leaving next year. He says to me all the time that he'll never deny our love if she asks. If he said we was just friends on a d day, I would be sooooo sad!

 

I'm so sorry he hurt you like that! It just isn't fair!

[bentnotbroken]

Bent, do the AP's generally fight to keep the A a secret, on your view? How?

 

 

IF you didn't inform the spouse before you cheated, while you cheated or even after you have been asked....you are fighting to live a lie and force someone else to do so against their will, generally speaking of course.

[fooled once]

Wll my suspicions somewhat concerned. I assume the worst because my mm is a creature of habit. I know within a 10 minute time period when I will get a 'good morning beautiful' right down to when he gets the kids to bed at night. And as I feared, about an hour ago I got a text from his phone saying 'hey' ummmm he never just says hey. But replied back hey stranger. And then nothing. Like 2 mins later I get 3 messages back to back...she's got my phone...don't text...I'll get ahold of you as soon as I can.'

 

Ugggh...well guess d-day has come or at very least her assumptions are getting the best of her. But of all his contacts she pulled up mine, which isn't assigned to a female name in his phone...so unless she's got proof, she'll have to come up with something better than a 'hey stranger' reply.

 

Star, yes we did go nc, for 11 days but are now back full contact. It didn't suit either of us well.

If this is d-day I'll be curious to see how it plays out. He always said he wouldn't give a *hit because she cheated first. We shall see. I'll keep u posted!

 

 

wow, just wow.

 

Her assumptions? I believe her ASSUMPTIONS are right -- are you saying she is wrong in assuming her spouse is cheating? Her assumptions are DEAD ON - HE IS CHEATING!!

 

 

Karma do you really want to be a part of gaslighting this woman?

 

Think how awful you feel just wondering if his W knows.

 

Can you imagine how awful she feels thinking her H may be with another woman? Asking him and being told no its your imagination? Do you really want to be apart of that? Its really cruel.

 

DITTO DITTO DITTO

 

To be honest, I have zero sympathy for this particular woman. Most BS I do recognize and sympathize with what a horrifying and traumatizing experience this may be (been there myself) but for her...I have had to allow myself to believe everything he's told me' about her and therefore feel that she has earned every ounce of betrayal she gets.

That may make me' sound heartless and like a horrible person but I have always felt she had it coming and deep down wished she could know the same feelings that she has put him through. Let's just say if she were to contact me' personally seeking facts, my loyalty would lie with him. I wouldn't sit here feeding her information or share stories about, "well he told me' this and this so we've been seeing eachother since mm/dd/yy, and remember those weekends where he said he was going to XYZ, well he was really with me'."

I'd probably just say I don't know what she's talking about and to quit calling my house trying to start trouble.

He will let me' know something today. I'm sure of it, so there really is no sitting and waiting and wondering at this point. I'm strangely not overly concerned. I'm pretty confident whether she knows or not will change nothing, and if it does...then I'm a big girl, independent, and what will be, will be.

 

Your hatred and venom from some woman you do NOT know is really sad. You know NOTHING about her except from what some dude tells you.

 

And he tells you she has cheated, and he doesn't leave. He tells you she is on some dating site, and yet he doesn't leave.

 

And why does HE CARE what she is doing? He is screwing another woman!! Talk about hypocrisy! He is just so unhappy, yet he wont' leave. He 'loves' you, but he won't leave. In fact, he even slept with his own wife...but that's right, he is disgusted by her

 

He has other proof on her affairs, after intercepting emails, etc but the most recent situation was what he is positive about is that he thinks she had an abortion. He has been snipped now for two years. He came back from having to work out of town for three days and all she was doing was laying around the house in a very depressive state. He noticed there were maxi pads (not her typical tampons) in the bathroom trash can and they were heavily bled on. She said she was just having a very bad, crampy menstrual period. Then they were there much longer than typical...and he told me that he checked her phone voicemail and there was a message on a Saturday from a dr (not an office but the dr himself) wanting to confirm she was still okay with her decision and coming in for the procedure that afternoon...and if so to make sure she had someone who could drive her home after.

He confronted her and she blew up on him and started throwing things at him. That was one of the nights he left and stayed at my place just completely disgusted and horrified with her.

 

So completely and disgusted and horrified with her, yet he went home. So upset and unhappy, yet he went home.

 

and FYI, no way a doctor would call - on a SATURDAY - and ask her if she was okay with a procedure. BULLCRAP. Did you personally HEAR this? Of course not. And why oh why is HE checking HER voicemail?

 

Man, he has such a double standard! It is okay for him to be cheating and being 'in love' with someone else, but it isn't okay for her to be doing exactly what he is doing?

 

You believe every single word that comes out of his mouth, no wonder you have no empathy or sympathy for his wife. It's all HIS side of the story.

 

And yes, rightfully so she should have mistrust and be pissed at him. He's gaslighting her, and lying to her. If he loved you so much and wanted out of his marriage, then he would so. He hasn't, which more than likely means he's just enjoying the benefits of the affair.

 

Exactly WWIU. Interesting how it is wrong for HER to be cheating or mistrusting; yet it is okay for him to be doing it! What a joke.

 

I don't know about this one - that sounds very suspicious because when doctor's / people from the medical profession in general - call and have to leave a message, they NEVER go into details or hint about what's going on because you never know who heard the message.

I dunno, I just find that part of his story very unlikely.

Especially the "are you ok with your decision" part. I dunno - it just strikes me as unlikely that a doctor really left that on a voicemail message.

 

Karma, I don't know this guy, obviously not like you do. But I think you're taking his word for gospel, and I just think you should be careful. I'd hate to see you get hurt.

 

Exactly!

 

The one thing that bothers me about asking advice from women in similar situations is that peep are so quick to assume that they know the mm better than the ap and that he MUST be as cold and calculating and manipulative as the man that betrayed her. I ask that u trust my judgment on that factor and try to keep the advice u give to the facts that u have versus assumptions on his character.

 

Assumptions on his character? Such as don't assume he is a cheater or trustworthy, even though he is lying to his wife and cheating on her? Got it. He is a standup dude who is honest, trustworthy and loyal.

[bentnotbroken]

 

wow, just wow.

 

Her assumptions? I believe her ASSUMPTIONS are right -- are you saying she is wrong in assuming her spouse is cheating? Her assumptions are DEAD ON - HE IS CHEATING!!

 

 

 

 

DITTO DITTO DITTO

 

 

 

Your hatred and venom from some woman you do NOT know is really sad. You know NOTHING about her except from what some dude tells you.

 

And he tells you she has cheated, and he doesn't leave. He tells you she is on some dating site, and yet he doesn't leave.

 

And why does HE CARE what she is doing? He is screwing another woman!! Talk about hypocrisy! He is just so unhappy, yet he wont' leave. He 'loves' you, but he won't leave. In fact, he even slept with his own wife...but that's right, he is disgusted by her

 

 

 

So completely and disgusted and horrified with her, yet he went home. So upset and unhappy, yet he went home.

 

and FYI, no way a doctor would call - on a SATURDAY - and ask her if she was okay with a procedure. BULLCRAP. Did you personally HEAR this? Of course not. And why oh why is HE checking HER voicemail?

 

Man, he has such a double standard! It is okay for him to be cheating and being 'in love' with someone else, but it isn't okay for her to be doing exactly what he is doing?

 

 

 

Exactly WWIU. Interesting how it is wrong for HER to be cheating or mistrusting; yet it is okay for him to be doing it! What a joke.

 

 

 

Exactly!

 

 

 

Assumptions on his character? Such as don't assume he is a cheater or trustworthy, even though he is lying to his wife and cheating on her? Got it. He is a standup dude who is honest, trustworthy and loyal.

 

 

I didn't assume anything about his character. Based on her posts, he doesn't have any character.

[whichwayisup]

He always said he wouldn't give a *hit because she cheated first.

Yet when he was confronted by his wife, he caved and didn't tell her the truth. He lied to her! He has the opportunity right then and there, he didn't take it.

 

You think he's going to leave and divorce her, but his actions show that he is going to stay married and keep you as the OW, keep the A going. That's it.