carhill Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 While perhaps not a purposeful and insidious example, this is IMO another great example of whoever cares the least having the most power and control. IME, in a marriage, when it becomes a dynamic of whoever cares the least, a divorce isn't far behind. Hope the OP can find a different path.
xxoo Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 can you imagine ... i am in bed with my naked wife, a wife who works out daily to keep her body firm, and while we are naked, i say "eh, not tonight honey". can you imagine the backlash i would get? so if the situation is reversed, why must i suck it up as "conditioning" or "grooming" or whatever game you described above. seriously? i dont get it, two naked adults in bed, why wouldnt you want sex? id feel insulted that i must be so hideous she cant get wet or even let her mind wander to a sexy place. Some of us go to bed together naked every night. And we kiss and snuggle every night. That doesn't mean we have sex every night. Most nights, yes, but not every night. It certainly isn't a game.
carhill Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Yes, in a healthy relationship, such expressions of intimacy and affection are not a game. The OP's situation does not sound particularly healthy, to me anyway.
Honorable_Venerable Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Some of us go to bed together naked every night. And some of us NEVER get that opportunity And we kiss and snuggle every night. Or that one That doesn't mean we have sex every night. This bit DOES ring true though:rolleyes: Carhill's right - the control in these circumstances is in the hands of the one who gives less of a damn. I once suggested we should look into the "just do it" approach to W. "That's not what married people do" I got told.
LittleTiger Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Some of us go to bed together naked every night. And we kiss and snuggle every night. That doesn't mean we have sex every night. Most nights, yes, but not every night. It certainly isn't a game. I would consider this normal in a healthy long term relationship. It actually surprises me when couples say they don't do this. HowYouDoing, your attitude towards sex with your wife seems a little aggressive - as though you somehow expect her to satisfy you out of duty. Which, if she is having sex with you 3 times per week and her desire for it is once per month, is probably how she feels too. I can understand you have some underlying anger if you feel your marriage is lacking in the passion you so clearly want, but you can't create sexual passion when one side is feeling resentful and the other feels pressured. As other's have suggested, I would back off and give her some space, at least for while. If you can persuade your wife to have IC, as well as MC for both of you, that is probably your best chance of sorting things out.
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 28, 2010 Author Posted September 28, 2010 Allow me to address a few points: 1) we dont sleep in the buff, logistically with young school age kids, we just dont feel comfortable. i suppose thats why the image i had in my mind was "hey lets frolick in bed naked, but dont desire sex" 2) my issue isnt quantity, its just lack of passion. in fact, it goes beyond that, its more like a lack of sexual instinct. I just want to have a lover in my life. I feel like a partner, which isnt bad in itself, i just feel like something is missing.
giotto Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 I would consider this normal in a healthy long term relationship. It actually surprises me when couples say they don't do this. I love you people in "normal, healthy" relationships...
giotto Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 I just want to have a lover in my life. Me too... but I'm married...
Trojan John Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Have you considered the possibility that she may be cheating on you? It seems like a very simple explanation to this issue.
LittleTiger Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 I love you people in "normal, healthy" relationships... I'm pretty sure some relationships are healthier than others giotto, but I'm not sure if there's any such thing as normal. Sleeping naked always feels like the natural thing to do for me when a relationship is 'good'. When the intimacy start to disappear - on goes the baggy t-shirt. I don't think anyone needs a degree in psychology to work out the significance of that and I'd be willing to bet that many women are the same.
Disastrus Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Wow... That so describes what I have been through for so many years, it's as if she has a script she shared with my wife. Is she a pisces? My wife convinced me to send her to a blowjob class with some girlfriends of hers, and in the last 3 years I have gotten maybe 3 blowjobs. You want to know why so seldom? We heard about a massage service that got busted for prostitution and saw the price for oral was $65 so I jokingly said "Wow, that's steep" And she got pissed off at me and has refused to give me a blowjob now to "punish" me. I bet your wife blames everything wrong on someone, or something else. She makes promises about sex and then some stupid, insignificant thing gets her out of the mood, or she falls asleep.
LittleTiger Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 If shes not cheating then my advice is to turn her own game against her - withdraw all affection and attempts at sex and when she (eventually) tries for something then brush it off like she would. If she wants a kiss on the lips then peck her on the cheek and be off. She will have no idea what is happening and will want u more. Either that or she'll be content and you'll be screwed...but no harm in trying. It will be tough on u tho to not have intimacy but it will pay off in the long run so get familiar with your right hand (assuming u are against cheating). Playing games is not a good way to sort out marital problems in my opinion. What you seem to be talking about here HYD, is 'raw passion'. The type of passion that exists in the very beginning of a relationship. It is great to keep that going over the years if possible, but it's likely that the 'raw' part will reduce in intensity over the years. Didn't you say that your wife was always lacking in passion, right from the start, and she has actually improved over the years? That raises a few questions in my mind. If your marriage has never been passionate, how was it that you chose to marry this woman (unless you waited for marriage before having sex)? If the passion has increased slightly over the years, what do think brought about that change? If you believe her attitude is to do with something from the past, will she do IC in order to deal with it? Is she passionate about other things in life or is this just her personality? Without wanting to be too brutal, is it possible that your wife was never strongly attracted to you sexually? If she's very flirty and sexy with other people, or in public (for show) but not with you in private, that suggests she does have a sexual side that she's apparently choosing not to share with you. It's just another possible explanation. Unfortunately, you can't create sexual chemistry where there is none.
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 28, 2010 Author Posted September 28, 2010 Wow... That so describes what I have been through for so many years, it's as if she has a script she shared with my wife. Is she a pisces? My wife convinced me to send her to a blowjob class with some girlfriends of hers, and in the last 3 years I have gotten maybe 3 blowjobs. You want to know why so seldom? We heard about a massage service that got busted for prostitution and saw the price for oral was $65 so I jokingly said "Wow, that's steep" And she got pissed off at me and has refused to give me a blowjob now to "punish" me. I bet your wife blames everything wrong on someone, or something else. She makes promises about sex and then some stupid, insignificant thing gets her out of the mood, or she falls asleep. ummm whats a blowjob class? you lost me there, and why was she pissed about your comment on the price?
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 28, 2010 Author Posted September 28, 2010 That was my very first reaction to reading the OP as well. Not trolling at all, 100% serious. If she is getting sexual gratification from another source then it makes sense that she would be reluctant to show affection to you. Pretty much everything you said would make sense. If shes not cheating then my advice is to turn her own game against her - withdraw all affection and attempts at sex and when she (eventually) tries for something then brush it off like she would. If she wants a kiss on the lips then peck her on the cheek and be off. She will have no idea what is happening and will want u more. Either that or she'll be content and you'll be screwed...but no harm in trying. It will be tough on u tho to not have intimacy but it will pay off in the long run so get familiar with your right hand (assuming u are against cheating). if my wife is cheating, colour me shocked. im gonna dismiss this option and if it turns out to be the case, well its pretty easy to deal with. im not wasting energy going down this road, its highly improbable although im sure many BS have said that before me. id be shocked. as for your suggestion, it doesnt work like that lol. when i do withdraw she notices and tells me to stop sulking. if i tell her im not sulking im just giving her space, she accuses me of being an extremist. either all over her and nothing at all. i dont know what in between is to be honest. anyhow, to me compromise can mean a number of things. 1) meet in the middle, a little of what she likes a little of what i like. or 2) it means all the way to one side from time to time. what i like, all the way. what she likes, all the way. i feel that i do everything to not only accomodate taking things all the way to her side (or the middle) and there is very little consideration for taking things all the way to my side from time to time. ok, now im whining ... like isnt that bad, i just needed to vent and i did.
Disastrus Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 ummm whats a blowjob class? you lost me there, and why was she pissed about your comment on the price? Where we live, there are some adult shops that host classes like how to give a blowjob and the like. As for why she is pissed, I have no clue, and she will not tell me. My wife is somewhat standoffish and hates when I try to do little things like footrubs, or give her a hug and tell her that I love her. Do some of the house chores since I work 9+ hours a day and she is a stay-at-home wife. She tells me that it makes her feel bad for me to do those things because she mostly sits around playing on facebook so she blames me for her feeling bad. Sound similar? Discussing sex always comes down to "I hate lightswitch sex, you need to get me in the mood" So when I do try to take it slow and get her in the mood, there is the eye-rolling, hand flapping hurry up and get it over with. Asking what I can do to get better is met with scorn "You should know this" I don't believe in divorce either, so I have to resort to porn 95% of the time, and the other 5% is spent thinking I should have done porn so at least I can fantasize about someone actually wanting to be with me. Sometimes I wish I would give in when I get hit on. Hell, I get hit on with her right there with me, and she tells me she likes that and we are going to do it later....Then she finds an excuse not to later. Porn or something on the side is the answer IMO.
You Go Girl Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 From a blind view of your wife, but recognizing some things from my first marriage, I will say-- If you become angry, you have just dismissed your wife's feelings and put your selfish desire first, and you are going to pay dearly, punished with no sex for awhile. If you whine, pressure, etc., then she will back off stoically and let you know that that is not the way to passion. If you appear always waiting for sex, you appear desperate, out of balance, and pathetic, and she will back away again in order for you to set yourself right. Thing is, many men never set themselves right, but instead get angry, blame their wife, complain, berate, pressure, and whine. None of the above will ever be a successful road to passion. What started it all? Let's just pretend for sake of discussion that the male in this case has a higher libido, the female wasn't paying attention to his advances, and the rest is history. It's time to move back to passion yourself. You whine once, she remembers it for just about eternity. Whining, etc., is not passionate, nor loving, no respectful. Now I know that many men in here say, but I backed off for awhile, and it didn't change a thing. Like I said, she has a memory of an elephant, and reverse psychology isn't going to work. What do you have to do? Become the lover that she wants the connection with everyday. How do you do that? Make it all about love making. Make it about the CONNECTION BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU. Get so frickin' close emotionally to her during sex that she craves you everyday. Anything else falls short of what a woman wants. So yes, the problem definitely is in part about the man who isn't there connecting with his wife, but instead wanting sex on a purely libido level, forgetting that for a woman it's only about her libido a week or so out of the month. The rest of the time, it's about the connection. You can do this. You just have to care about the connection enough to make it the priority. This above won't fix every situation. But IT'S WHAT WOMEN WANT.
Pickles4Breakfast Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 OP, I can't say I know the solution to your problems with your wife, but for God's sake, stop scrapbooking for her. That's the last thing on Earth that would make a woman view a man in a sexual manner. Why in God's name would you think this is something that would help?
SpillinItAll Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 what about the fact that OP says it takes him 45mn to get hard? I could see how that would contribute to the problem. The way he said it makes this mental image of him standing there next to his wife naked and limp down stairs, then he points at is nether regions saying "why aren't you fixing this?! " . I know its not really like that but still, that problem should be addressed too. That can seriously be a problem for your wife to deal with. 45mn is a long time.
SpillinItAll Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 ummm whats a blowjob class? you lost me there, and why was she pissed about your comment on the price? there are instructional DVDs for this
Tayla Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 NIco- Thanks for that link. Parts of it made sense. One point gained is self discipline. I disagree in the withholding though simply to gain time.....Much time can be wasted playing the "she'll come around" ....Reality is...she may well be content if he decreases and eventually stops entirely from desiring her... There needs to be a middle ground for the two of them....He clearly has PASSION for his spouse ...Maybe now that I think about it...She is the one laying low WANTING his passion to rise...so she stays in control in the bedroom...sad really .....
xxoo Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 From the first post, you've said that she avoids your touch. She feels emotionally detached from you. She seeks emotional distance from you, even though she "gives" you sex. There will be no passionate sex without emotional closeness. This is your problem: intimacy. Not sex. Right now, you've got plenty of sex but no intimacy. Forget about the sex for a while, and focus on the intimacy. It might be necessary to back off from sex for a bit while you work on building intimacy. If that is necessary, are you willing to do so? Will it be worth it in the end, if you could possibly kindle some passion a few months down the road? The concept of "just do it" was brought up, and I clarified. I mentioned that it involves getting naked and trying sex often, and feeling ok with sometimes hearing "sorry, not working tonight". That pretty much freaked you out! Some of your words were "game", "conditioning", "grooming", and feeling "hideous". Now, I understand you are coming from a place of rejection and insecurity. But consider how your reactions affect her willingness to try, as well as her willingness to communicate honestly. If I had to worry about my partner having such a negative reaction to a "sorry, not happening for me tonight", I would keep my clothes on and avoid touch, too. I'd be very careful not to send a message of ANY possibility of sex unless I was completely sure I could go through with it. And we'd both miss out on a lot of great sex.
FanFan Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 yes, she might at that. She could call it rape and have him charged. The Law recognises rape in marriage. If she calls the cops on him, she certainly could do that. He's HER husband. And she could slam him in jail. How's that grab you? Be careful on the advice you give out. Check your facts. That's really just so dumb. First, you need to read what I wrote. I never said go rape her. I said, go grab her and go kiss her. HUGE difference.
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 29, 2010 Author Posted September 29, 2010 OP, I can't say I know the solution to your problems with your wife, but for God's sake, stop scrapbooking for her. That's the last thing on Earth that would make a woman view a man in a sexual manner. Why in God's name would you think this is something that would help? lemme clarify ... no, i dont scrapbook ... i just bought some stuff there so i could make pillow cards or little notes in her lunch. she told me she likes love notes and reminders like that. i dunno, its way outa my comfort zone, but she likes it and thats kinda the point.
fltc Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Get help! See a sex therapist or a marriage counselor that specializes in sexual problems.
fltc Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Some of us go to bed together naked every night. And we kiss and snuggle every night. That doesn't mean we have sex every night. *Some of us have become so fat and old and ugly that we'd NEVER let the other see us naked, me because of the paunch, her because of a mastectomy and both because of a LOT of wrinkles! *Some of us used to snuggle every night but now every time we try there's a very cold, wet, furry nose pushed between us. Not that we don't love his four legged body but it's hard to snuggle when 50 lbs of mutt is between you.... Wonder what it'll be like when he's full grown? *And we don't have sex ever. Health problems and the related prescriptions have guaranteed that I have nothing below the waist that's functional. But I still love sleeping with her and trying to snuggle over, under or with the dog.
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