SpillinItAll Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 "Pardon me if I am mistaken, but are you not an escort? Does my wife want me running to someone of your profession to get the type of sexual tension that I desire? Dont get me wrong, I am not about to threaten her with that or do that, but there is a reason you claim so many married men as clients." And this is exactly why I am trying to tell you to ease her into things without the pressure. I have clients all the time that are in the same predicament as you and my advice has solved a few of these situations. Yes, I am an escort, but that doesn't mean I am not a woman who knows what women like. I get that it really sucks to feel unwanted in your situation, I really do. But you have to give her some of what she wants to get what you want. She probably wants to be held sometimes that it is just for the sake of being held and not just for you to get laid. You have to tread lightly. As far as the texting goes, I am just pointing out that it is hurtful to her that you seem unimpressed with the attention she does give you because it isn't exactly what you want. I am not saying she is right, and I am not saying you are right.
carhill Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 The physical manifestations of your emotional discourse sets guidelines for your children, socializing them into your patterns as examples of what a healthy relationship is supposed to look like. They know no other circumstances. A lot of what you shared in your OP, relevant to modeling such relationships, gives me pause. Perhaps your wife and yourself believe your children do not 'notice' the everyday manifestations of your private 'love life', but I think that dynamic bears scrutiny. Beyond your children is your own health. I have now, at 51, had enough experience with women such as you apparently describe your wife to know they are unhealthy for me, marriage or not. Your conclusions will be uniquely your own. The good news is those experiences have given me insight to now successfully avoid such women in the future. I'm sure they are compatible with someone and I hope it works out for them. What has your MC experience been?
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 28, 2010 Author Posted September 28, 2010 (edited) "Pardon me if I am mistaken, but are you not an escort? Does my wife want me running to someone of your profession to get the type of sexual tension that I desire? Dont get me wrong, I am not about to threaten her with that or do that, but there is a reason you claim so many married men as clients." And this is exactly why I am trying to tell you to ease her into things without the pressure. I have clients all the time that are in the same predicament as you and my advice has solved a few of these situations. Yes, I am an escort, but that doesn't mean I am not a woman who knows what women like. I get that it really sucks to feel unwanted in your situation, I really do. But you have to give her some of what she wants to get what you want. She probably wants to be held sometimes that it is just for the sake of being held and not just for you to get laid. You have to tread lightly. As far as the texting goes, I am just pointing out that it is hurtful to her that you seem unimpressed with the attention she does give you because it isn't exactly what you want. I am not saying she is right, and I am not saying you are right. my wife gets alot of non sexual touching and cuddling and affection with no expectation of sex. there is no lack there. i should also clarify, I am a touchy person, maybe too much I can admit. So I do rub her shoulders when I see her washing dishes. I hold her hips from behind if I pass her in the house. I provide lots of affection and touching in clearly non sexual situations. My wife is hot, I cant help but want to touch her. i mean really, does she think i am expecting sex at 5pm as we are getting ready to take the kids to wherever? of course not, so how is the stop in the middle of the kitchen for a nice husband to wife kiss anything more than that? instead i get a peck. this is the issue I am talking about. kids are downstairs, there is no reason to not stop and take a moment to give me a kiss like we are lovers and not like we are brother and sister. Edited September 28, 2010 by HowYouDoing
FanFan Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 this is the issue I am talking about. kids are downstairs, there is no reason to not stop and take a moment to give me a kiss like we are lovers and not like we are brother and sister. Well, you corner her, grabbed her and tongue kiss her. Take control. Women like that.
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 28, 2010 Author Posted September 28, 2010 Well, you corner her, grabbed her and tongue kiss her. Take control. Women like that. this is my last response to you. grow up or get a life and stop trolling with this nonsense. it contributes nothing.
turnstone Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 I don't believe that situations like these are solved without professional help and a willingness from the other party to recognise there is a problem and to do something about it. As much as you may not want to open Pandora's box, I don't believe there is another option for getting what you need, OP. What exactly do you fear may come out by going to MC?
SpillinItAll Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Therapy my friend is all I can now suggest. There is more going on with her that perhaps be easier for her to spill in a therapy session. She may also need hormonal therapy, is she late forties or older? Is is she using some type of birth control? I have a very high sex drive but I once switched to a progesterone based bc method and it took all desire for sex away until the moment I got off of it.
carhill Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 My apologies for missing that you haven't actually been to see a MC but have considered it. Have you talked with your wife about it? 'I'd like for us to see a marriage counselor so I can learn healthier ways of relating to you and feeling greater intimacy with you'. If she reacts negatively, then 'well, it sounds like that is something we can work on. I'll make an appointment tomorrow'. Remember, she's a mature woman, not a child. Part of being mature is facing one's personal demons and marital responsibilities. In that regard, you are equals. She doesn't get special dispensation for being a woman. TBH, I loved MC and learned so much in there. My ex, OTOH, well, she was glad that she didn't have to pay for it.
aerogurl87 Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 perhaps she feels like when you try to cuddle it is only a ploy to get sex from her. She may have been effected negatively by the pressure you have put on her and think all of those things you do are a means to get sex from her. I happen to think the texts she is sending you are sweet and the ones you prefer from her are juvenile IMHO. Try laying off of the pressure for a while and attempt cuddling and other things like that without even trying to have sex. Let her know that you haven't changed into some sex crazed man. That you still like the sweet innocent stuff too. This isn't something that will be resolved overnight, you have to go slow with this. No I gotta disagree "I <3 U" is juvenile. If I'm gonna text my boyfriend something it's gonna be in standard English and make him and I both want each other like two inmates who've been put away for life with no chance at a conjugal visit, and just got out. I don't think he's asking for too much but his wife obviously has issues that haven't been fully dealt with. When a man wanting sex with his wife is seen as him putting pressure on her, then the marriage definitely has issues.
Veronica K Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 My apologies for missing that you haven't actually been to see a MC but have considered it. Have you talked with your wife about it? 'I'd like for us to see a marriage counselor so I can learn healthier ways of relating to you and feeling greater intimacy with you'. If she reacts negatively, then 'well, it sounds like that is something we can work on. I'll make an appointment tomorrow'. Remember, she's a mature woman, not a child. Part of being mature is facing one's personal demons and marital responsibilities. In that regard, you are equals. She doesn't get special dispensation for being a woman. TBH, I loved MC and learned so much in there. My ex, OTOH, well, she was glad that she didn't have to pay for it. So well said.
Toodamnpragmatic Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 (edited) That was mem11363's solution to his problems. He said it with no real plan to follow through and his wife capitulated.... Now back to the OP.... 2-3X's/wk.... You have no right to complain here:p;).... While I truly see the intimacy issues and you have problems understanding why she doesn't act more openly to your pda's, you do sound a bit childish complaining she did not spend the day with you..... That however is an indication of bigger issues to talk about. I think she didn't want to spend the day with you, because she feels somewhat trapped in to sex 2-3X's/wk to begin with, and knows you would have wanted sex being alone all day with no children...... She was staying away from you. If really she wants it 1X/mth and you get it 10-12X's, that is a big compromise...... Though others here have wives who want it never...:laugh: But really take heed of what others have said, talk openly to your wife and suggest counseling.... Edited September 28, 2010 by Toodamnpragmatic
TaraMaiden Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 She's YOUR wife. Just take what's yours when you want. Grab it, touch, kiss it WHENEVER you want. What's she going to do? Call the cop? Tell her parents? yes, she might at that. She could call it rape and have him charged. The Law recognises rape in marriage. If she calls the cops on him, she certainly could do that. He's HER husband. And she could slam him in jail. How's that grab you? Be careful on the advice you give out. Check your facts. That's really just so dumb.
xxoo Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 This is a fair point. Why shouldnt I ask for more though? I would give her more if she asked for it. Is too much to ask for affection on a consistent basis? I am not asking her to shove foreign objects up her backside or other invasive or rude expectations. I just want some passion and intimacy.. It is fine to ask for/work toward more. But it is discouraging to be trying, and have your partner not to acknowledge and appreciate your efforts--even if it isn't exactly meeting their needs. There is a line to walk in communication: "I deeply appreciate your efforts. At the same time, this need is unmet." Essentially, a whole lot of effort is going into the wrong task. i mean really, does she think i am expecting sex at 5pm as we are getting ready to take the kids to wherever? of course not, so how is the stop in the middle of the kitchen for a nice husband to wife kiss anything more than that? instead i get a peck. this is the issue I am talking about. kids are downstairs, there is no reason to not stop and take a moment to give me a kiss like we are lovers and not like we are brother and sister. I'll be honest--my H and I share lots of hugs, kisses, and emotional intimacy, but neither of us provides a deep kiss on demand. A deep kiss, for me, requires a certain mental space that is very different from when I am in the middle of dishes or other household tasks. Wanting a deep kiss from me in that moment would feel like he wasn't respecting my body and my experience. She has walls up, no doubt. Much of this is her issue. But these cold approaches to "kiss like we are lovers" while she is occupied with other things are only going to build her walls higher. Wait until everyone is finished working, have her sit while you make her some coffee (or bring her a blanket, or whatever), and then try moving in for that kiss when she is relaxed and recieving the treat.
xxoo Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 While I truly see the intimacy issues and you have problems understanding why she doesn't act more openly to your pda's, you do sound a bit childish complaining she did not spend the day with you..... That however is an indication of bigger issues to talk about. I think she didn't want to spend the day with you, because she feels somewhat trapped in to sex 2-3X's/wk to begin with, and knows you would have wanted sex being alone all day with no children...... She was staying away from you. If really she wants it 1X/mth and you get it 10-12X's, that is a big compromise...... I missed that about avoiding the day spent together, and I agree with what TDP has said above. I also feel that the text issue is a bit childish, but maybe that's because I'm not in the generation that grew up with texting . But---sexually explicit texts in the middle of the day? It seems that there can be a time and place for these things, no? It is a catch 22--the more she has sex with you while not really wanting it, the father she moves from wanting to truly connect with you. The same will be true if you push for texts she doesn't really want to send, or deep kisses she isn't really feeling.....all will move her farther AWAY from you, emotionally. Heavy work, with the help of a counselor, may move her closer to you.
GorillaTheater Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Well, you corner her, grabbed her and tongue kiss her. Take control. Women like that. this is my last response to you. grow up or get a life and stop trolling with this nonsense. it contributes nothing. I wouldn't dismiss this so readily, because there is a nugget of truth here. This is nearly three decades of married life talking: single women respond positively to confident guys, and so do married women. I don't know how you and your wife interact with each other, and I'm not saying that you're confident in your interactions because I don't know that either. But it's something you may want to consider. One, perhaps minor (and perhaps not), way to display confidence is to periodically grab your wife and lay one on her. Then smile, leer a bit, and walk off. Resentment is an attraction killer. Don't believe for a second that your wife doesn't sense it. Be cool, calm and confident. Keep in mind that you're the prize. If your wife can't see it, reinforce the idea to yourself that it's her problem, not yours. Any of this make sense or resonate with you?
giotto Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 my suggestion? Stop trying so hard (can be really off-putting) and give her space... she thinks she doesn't have to do anything to keep you there. See how she reacts.
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 28, 2010 Author Posted September 28, 2010 ok, thanks for everyone's great advice ... why does everything have to be so calculated? i get it, but all i am looking for is some passion in our marriage. i dont want to be in a position where its late when we both realize we took each other for granted. anyhow, yes i can see how some of my comments are "cry me a river", all things accounted for, I shouldnt complain, but I guess I was venting. take care LS Nation!
giotto Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 ok, thanks for everyone's great advice ... why does everything have to be so calculated? i get it, but all i am looking for is some passion in our marriage. i dont want to be in a position where its late when we both realize we took each other for granted. anyhow, yes i can see how some of my comments are "cry me a river", all things accounted for, I shouldnt complain, but I guess I was venting. take care LS Nation! calculated? Well, yes and no... women are complicated creatures... My point was that, if you keep bringing up the same arguments and complaints, you will push her further away. Obviously, you two are mismatched, so trying to force her to comply will not work. Give her space, do stuff on your own and stop being so suffocating with your demands. See how it goes. She might start questioning why you are becoming distant and what she is doing wrong. It will draw her attention, At the moment, she has you in the bag. If it doesn't "work", then it will be time for a serious discussion and MC... good luck!
xxoo Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 why does everything have to be so calculated? i get it, but all i am looking for is some passion in our marriage. The thing is, you can't demand passion, or expect it to suddenly appear out of nowhere. You have to create it, together. And she has to allow it. Drawing back and giving her space, as some posters have suggested, will give her some room to grow passion and genuine desire. Moving in assertively and "laying one on her" sometimes can also inspire passion. But none of it is likely to work if she is fundamentally damaged, and has closed herself off from passion. That is something that would need to be addressed in counseling. The practice of having sex when not in the mood (as she seems to be doing on a regular basis, according to her preferred frequency) is a known passion-killer for women. If she would relinquish some control, I'd recommend slowing down the frequency and pace of sex, and not moving forward until she is practically begging for it. How long has it been since she's felt that hunger?
Tiberius Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Well you married her for a reason I would say. If you waited till marriage, you have my sympathies I guess. If you didnt, she was good enough to get married to still. Maybe you are trying too hard. Do the things that please you. If your wife wants to do activities you are not interested in, dont swallow, just tell her its not something you want to do.
Honorable_Venerable Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 The thing is, you can't demand passion, or expect it to suddenly appear out of nowhere. You have to create it, together. And she has to allow it. Drawing back and giving her space, as some posters have suggested, will give her some room to grow passion and genuine desire. As someone who has gone down that road, I would strongly suggest that if you try this yourself, set yourself some sort of target deadline, after which you'll try something else. My own experience was that I could have backed away until hell froze and my W wouldn't have grown passion and desire. In my case after a few months, I decided that it wasn't going to work and that I'd better try something else before I forgot why I was trying it! Moving in assertively and "laying one on her" sometimes can also inspire passion. Yes, but not necessarily of the sexual kind. There's the risk she'll lay one on you - don't try this when she'll rolling pastry, for instance... But none of it is likely to work if she is fundamentally damaged, and has closed herself off from passion. That is something that would need to be addressed in counseling. The practice of having sex when not in the mood (as she seems to be doing on a regular basis, according to her preferred frequency) is a known passion-killer for women. If she would relinquish some control, I'd recommend slowing down the frequency and pace of sex, and not moving forward until she is practically begging for it. How long has it been since she's felt that hunger? Has she ever felt it? If she's that controlling / determined to stay in control of herself, she won't beg while she has a hole in her arse - it's such a total reversal of the normal (conditioned?) behaviour that such a change is vanishingly unlikely, I would say. Aside - the practice of having sex when not in the mood - isn't this the essential underlying premise of the "just do it" school? Or have a misread this?
xxoo Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Aside - the practice of having sex when not in the mood - isn't this the essential underlying premise of the "just do it" school? Or have a misread this? No, not necessarily. The "just do it" is more of a "just get naked and get close and see what happens"....but not "just do it" if you still do not feel like having sex at that point. It is ok to "just do it" sometimes, but not the majority of the time. Of course, that requires a man who is willing to get naked and close and accept "sorry, it's not happening for me tonight" gracefully sometimes.
Honorable_Venerable Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 (edited) Of course, that requires a man who is willing to get naked and close and accept "sorry, it's not happening for me tonight" gracefully sometimes. Such men CAN be found - between them they own the world's entire supply of hens' teeth and rocking horse poo:D. Blimey, that idea must have a shorter shelflife than fish! Edited September 28, 2010 by Honorable_Venerable
carhill Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 Another question is would a woman be attracted to a man who accepts getting close and naked without obviously pursuing sex?
Author HowYouDoing Posted September 28, 2010 Author Posted September 28, 2010 ....that requires a man who is willing to get naked and close and accept "sorry, it's not happening for me tonight" gracefully sometimes. can you imagine ... i am in bed with my naked wife, a wife who works out daily to keep her body firm, and while we are naked, i say "eh, not tonight honey". can you imagine the backlash i would get? so if the situation is reversed, why must i suck it up as "conditioning" or "grooming" or whatever game you described above. seriously? i dont get it, two naked adults in bed, why wouldnt you want sex? id feel insulted that i must be so hideous she cant get wet or even let her mind wander to a sexy place.
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