Spark1111 Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 IMO, the WS and the AP have a very different concept about what D-day will be like or mean in the long-term. Sort of like what you mention above, Spark. Like it will be no big deal because the BS doesn't really love them (the WS) anyway. I know my husband thought this was true so he didn't understand my disbelief and shock when he told me. He figured I wouldn't really care all that much. It's part of the affairyland fantasy that is needed to maintain the affair. I so agree Snow! In the showdown of DDAy, I heard "It just happened," "I wanted to help her young son," "I thought I could control it, but it just got out of control," and the best, "Why are you so angry?" followed by "I expected to get beat up a little for this." The next day? When I had moved out to allow him to pack up his things and leave, I heard..... "Please don't tell anyone......"
What_Next Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 NC immeadiately was the first thing that came to mind. Well after setting it straight with him in terms of cutting off all communication, then NC. Also removing all possible avenues of communication. Coming clean with all the truth of the affair. Becoming an open book in terms of showing any and all communication if asked. Answering all questions with instant honesty and not at all gaslighting. Understanding and accepting all mood swings and behavior patterns of the BS. Going on out on their own and learning what would be needed to rebuild trust and doing whatever was necessary to start the process. Now in my case my STBX did none of these. In fact she did about the opposite. She continued contact with the OM, lied about other hidden email communications and has admitted that if given the chance she'd probably contact him again. I will also say that any reconcilation is only going to be possible if both parties truly want it, but IMHO the WS should go about doing these things, NO MATTER what the BS does. My STBX learned her lessons the hard way and she has learned that by not doing them (and in fact still hasn't even tried).
Summer Breeze Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 My perfect response to my exH cheating. End the marriage. The trust was gone and I wouldn't live my life always wondering. He begged and pleaded and gave me the whole sob story. I loved him more than life itself but not as much as me. The perfect resonse from my exMMs wife was to take him back on multiple ddays. When the A ended I'd come to a time when bad outweighed good and told him it was done and to have a good life. No idea if it worked for them but it was what they both wanted. There is no perfect anything. It's like asking a BS what the perfect reaction from an OW would be on dday. Or a WS what the perfect reaction from an OW would be on dday. What's expected is seldom what happens.
Owl Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 I would say that my reaction was "perfect"...it got the results I wanted. The trick here is to identify what you want, work out a plan to get what you want, and then implement and manage your plan until you get what you want. It's not so much about how you want someone else to react near as much as it it managing your own reactions.
silktricks Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 IMO there were 3 "perfect" responses (speaking only for my own past situation). 1. The OW's 2. The WS' 3. What's perfect for the BS' long term mental health. 1. the OW wanted me to terminate the marriage and politely disappear into the past. 2. My husband (fWS) wanted forgiveness and no further mention of the A. He would have liked (no doubt) me to do that much more quickly than it happened. . That is what he wanted, but what he expected was a divorce as he had convinced himself that I no longer loved him. 3. My response was probably not all that good for me - I felt so sorry for the OW and my H that I didn't take very good care of myself. I bought her a gift (which boggles my mind now), and told my husband to end the relationship in his own way and on his own timetable. It didn't take him long, as he had already deciided (when he told me about it) that he didn't want her in his life any longer. But I never "took control" of the situation, as I felt like my actions had caused it in the first place. Everything worked out in the end for my h and me, but it was a long arduous road.
fltc Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 but after thinking clearly, divorce was my only option because I despised her after that. She was no longer the person I married. This says it perfectly, for those who say, "But I love her/him" no, you don't. You love an imaginary person, the person who you THOUGHT he/she was, the loyal, trustworthy spouse you hoped you had. You do not love the lying cheater you married! To me the ONLY possible reaction is immediate divorce, no possible reconciliation under any circumstances. How can a marriage continue w/o trust or love? PS, the children, if any, are much better off with divorced parents than with parents who will take years to get back to an imperfect relationship.
silktricks Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 This says it perfectly, for those who say, "But I love her/him" no, you don't. You love an imaginary person, the person who you THOUGHT he/she was, the loyal, trustworthy spouse you hoped you had. You do not love the lying cheater you married! To me the ONLY possible reaction is immediate divorce, no possible reconciliation under any circumstances. How can a marriage continue w/o trust or love? PS, the children, if any, are much better off with divorced parents than with parents who will take years to get back to an imperfect relationship. If that is how you feel, that is your perfect reaction. It is emphatically not mine. It is also not an accurate portrayal of many WS - for example, my husband. He is a good, loyal, trustworthy spouse. Was he always, with no exceptions? No. But a single outlandish behavioral instance does not forever define a person. Nor should it, IMO.
lilbunny Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 I'm not sure there is a perfect response as such, at least not one that fits all. I guess I would hope that xmm told the truth about the A and held his hands up to what he did. I wouldn't gey involved at all unless the BS wanted to contact me and I would answer any questions she wanted to ask truthfully. Otherwise I would leave them alone to work it out. As for BS, well if she wanted to take a swing at me I really wouldn't blame her and I think the first shot at least should be a freebie. I would hope she got the truth, believed it and didn't brush it under the carpet or blame me 100%, totally letting mm off the hook. Once upon a time I did hope that he would pack his bags and be with me. I know this is not realistic and wouldn't want it if it had been forced on him i.e. because A had been discovered and she threw him out.
wicar1 Posted September 28, 2010 Posted September 28, 2010 I have been reading here the last two days, esp the thread on BS/OP being alike. I want to pose a question: What do you think would be the most desirable response/action from a BS on discovering the affair (DDay)? I want to know from all sides: WS/BS/OP. I know only my own experience, so I am curious to see what others have to offer. You may also state what response from a BS SHOULD or WOULD be expected. Leave the cheater !!
fltc Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 It is also not an accurate portrayal of many WS - for example, my husband. He is a good, loyal, trustworthy spouse. Was he always, with no exceptions? No. But a single outlandish behavioral instance does not forever define a person. Nor should it, IMO. Can you trust him? That "single outlandish behavioral instance" does tell you he can cheat, doesn't it? I'm not saying he'll do it again, I don't believe "once a cheater always a cheater" but..... My feelings are that marriage is a contract and when that contract is breeched the marriage is ended. To try to rebuild is to start over with a new contract with one who's already proved contracts don't mean anything to him/her. Again, YMMV and obviously does but you're betting on long odds IMHO. Personally, I don't think I could ever survive a second shock, just reading some of the posts here about the betrayals people have suffered makes my heart damn near stop.
pureinheart Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 (edited) If that is how you feel, that is your perfect reaction. It is emphatically not mine. It is also not an accurate portrayal of many WS - for example, my husband. He is a good, loyal, trustworthy spouse. Was he always, with no exceptions? No. But a single outlandish behavioral instance does not forever define a person. Nor should it, IMO. Can you trust him? That "single outlandish behavioral instance" does tell you he can cheat, doesn't it? I'm not saying he'll do it again, I don't believe "once a cheater always a cheater" but..... My feelings are that marriage is a contract and when that contract is breeched the marriage is ended. To try to rebuild is to start over with a new contract with one who's already proved contracts don't mean anything to him/her. Again, YMMV and obviously does but you're betting on long odds IMHO. Personally, I don't think I could ever survive a second shock, just reading some of the posts here about the betrayals people have suffered makes my heart damn near stop. ........................ Edited September 29, 2010 by pureinheart
BB07 Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 This says it perfectly, for those who say, "But I love her/him" no, you don't. You love an imaginary person, the person who you THOUGHT he/she was, the loyal, trustworthy spouse you hoped you had. You do not love the lying cheater you married! To me the ONLY possible reaction is immediate divorce, no possible reconciliation under any circumstances. How can a marriage continue w/o trust or love? PS, the children, if any, are much better off with divorced parents than with parents who will take years to get back to an imperfect relationship. So what is your story? Were you/are you married and you've been betrayed?
What_Next Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I guess what I still don't understand is how you actually would EVER hope to rebuild trust again. I know this is pulling this thread off topic a little, but the discussion seems to be lively, so I wanted to throw that out there. In my case I can get beyond the actual physical act, I can even get beyond the emotional connection, but I just cannot see me getting beyond the loss of trust. Like has been said, a marriage is a contract, a bond. Once it is broken it can take YEARS to rebuild; and all the while the BS is left to wonder every single day, to ponder the what if's. That's the part that I cannot deal with.
silktricks Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Can you trust him? That "single outlandish behavioral instance" does tell you he can cheat, doesn't it? I'm not saying he'll do it again, I don't believe "once a cheater always a cheater" but..... My feelings are that marriage is a contract and when that contract is breeched the marriage is ended. To try to rebuild is to start over with a new contract with one who's already proved contracts don't mean anything to him/her. Again, YMMV and obviously does but you're betting on long odds IMHO. Personally, I don't think I could ever survive a second shock, just reading some of the posts here about the betrayals people have suffered makes my heart damn near stop. Yes, absolutely, I can and do trust him. BTW, I'm not in the "trying to rebuild" stage. We did rebuild. His affair is many years in the past. Every person on the face of the earth errs. None of us are perfect, myself included. Because of a number of things I was able to forgive my husband and we were able to fix our marriage. My choice isn't the choice everyone could make, and that's fine. I don't condemn people who cannot, or tell them they are wrong to not be able to do so. Please extend the same courtesy to me. Please explain what you mean in regards to a second shock. You mean if you would forgive and be betrayed a second time? That would (of course) mean game over for that relationship. But, let's face it. There are no guarantees. If a person is betrayed and remarries, they could be betrayed again. The only way to be sure one never experiences a "second shock" is to never again give your heart to ANYONE - and that includes your children, your parents, everyone. Whenever you give a piece of yourself to someone else for caretaking, that person has the ability to hurt you. There is no safety in living. You want to be safe? Then never do anything. Climb in a hole and pull it in after you. Crappy way to live, IMO.
thomasb Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 Silktricks, that was very well said. Good post.
silktricks Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I guess what I still don't understand is how you actually would EVER hope to rebuild trust again. I know this is pulling this thread off topic a little, but the discussion seems to be lively, so I wanted to throw that out there. In my case I can get beyond the actual physical act, I can even get beyond the emotional connection, but I just cannot see me getting beyond the loss of trust. Like has been said, a marriage is a contract, a bond. Once it is broken it can take YEARS to rebuild; and all the while the BS is left to wonder every single day, to ponder the what if's. That's the part that I cannot deal with. No question about it. It does take years to rebuild. Some people (such as myself, snowflower, spark and a few others whose names slip my mind at the moment) have found it worthwhile to try. Sometime is works and sometimes it does not. It worked for me and my hubby. The thing most people (I assume) don't get, is that things change. Even in the best of circumstances it takes a couple of years. It took longer than that for me - about 4-4.5, actually - I considered it an investment. Some pay off, some don't . Our investment in ourselves paid off big time. When you are in the depth of despair after learning about betrayal it's easy to think you can never recover. In all honesty, my husband never thought I'd be able to as historically I'm not big on letting things go. But he hung in with me, through some terribly traumatic times, and I hung in with him. We worked on our issues (and they weren't all his issues). Anyway, I've drug this thread pretty far off topic. So, back to the "perfect response". If I had given a "perfect response" for myself it would have been to take back some power. That wasn't what I did. In the long run it worked out, but I had an unreasonable amount of anger at the OW for sometime - not because she was attracted to my husband - but because of the harassment she subjected us to after the affair was over. Had I taken back my own power, what she did wouldn't have had an effect on me.
Snowflower Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I would say that my reaction was "perfect"...it got the results I wanted. The trick here is to identify what you want, work out a plan to get what you want, and then implement and manage your plan until you get what you want. It's not so much about how you want someone else to react near as much as it it managing your own reactions. This is really clever! Great post...I wanted to bring it back up again. It has taken me a long time to get to this point in regards to trust (and, TBH, I'm still working on it) My own feelings and reactions are really the only thing I have control over. I can't control my husband's reactions, my children's my friends' or those of my family members in any circumstance. It's my decision whether or not to trust and who to trust. I think sometimes we put too much/expect too much from other people when really the person we should be looking at is ourselves. If we can trust (or get to the place where we can trust) others, based on their actions and our reactions, then all is good. But, if we can't trust them, then we need to recognize why and move on from that. But rather than wait in agony "for the other shoe to drop" I choose to trust my instincts and in this case, trust my husband for the good man that he is and hope for the best. It's all really anyone can do. Hope that makes sense...I know what I want to say but I can't formulate the right words at the moment!
Dexter Morgan Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 This says it perfectly, for those who say, "But I love her/him" no, you don't. You love an imaginary person, the person who you THOUGHT he/she was, the loyal, trustworthy spouse you hoped you had. You do not love the lying cheater you married! I think in alot of cases where they don't want to admit it, what they really love is the idea of NOT having to go through the pains of divorce or losing their familiar life
Spark1111 Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 I think in alot of cases where they don't want to admit it, what they really love is the idea of NOT having to go through the pains of divorce or losing their familiar life I can't imagine how much MORE painful it would be to reconcile ONLY to maintain a status quo. The man I am with today is not the same man I discovered had lied and betrayed me on DDAY. I COULD NEVER be with that man EVER AGAIN! And had NO intention of staying with that man. Divorce would have been a blessing in that case. The man I am with today has worked painfully hard to transform himself into a kind, considerate, transparent and devoted lover and friend. That's the man I reconciled with. And I have no regrets about it.
fltc Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 So what is your story? Were you/are you married and you've been betrayed? I was married, neither of us cheated AFAIK but we were totally unsuited, I've discussed this elsewhere. I was betrayed once. I dated a girl and we planned to marry, we had agreed on an exclusive relationship. I went to school in another area but was close enough to come home and see her on weekends sometimes and I called her often to keep in touch. On one call she said she had something to tell me but she wouldn't until I was home so next time I was home we went out and I got to sit in the car with her and listen to her tell me how she had dated a guy from her work, how they'd hugged and kissed and petted in the car, how he'd removed her panties and inserted his cock in her "but only the tip, then I made him stop!" NOTE: Sitting in a car a guy cannot remove your panties w/o your help AFAIK? She also said he'd told her he wasn't going to go out again with her w/o sex but she did date him at least once more, she said nothing happened(!?!?) My feelings did a complete change, we continued to date but, while I enjoyed the cuddling and the sex, I no longer had any intention of marrying her. Sometime later she mentioned she'd met another guy she liked but we continued to date and have sex until she phoned me one day to invite me to her wedding! By that time I really didn't give a damn, I declined the invite and wished her well, all the shock was long over but I still remember 50+ years later the horrible, heart stopping, unable to breathe time in the car with the girl I'd planned to marry describing detail by detail how she'd kissed, made out, petted, played with his cock and then screwed him ("but only the tip!")
redtail Posted September 29, 2010 Posted September 29, 2010 ... My choice isn't the choice everyone could make, and that's fine. I don't condemn people who cannot, or tell them they are wrong to not be able to do so. Please extend the same courtesy to me. ... That is awesome and I totally agree with you. Even though my opinion of D-Day for the BS tends to be in the "cut-your-losses-and-kick-the-cheater-to-the-curb" category, I completely agree that there is never a one size fits all. Owl and yourself are shining examples! ... My most desirable action was not to end up in jail and no one end up dead. Worked for us. Okay, that's hilarious, boy could I identify!
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