After 17 months of No Contact following a 5 year affair, I've regressed.

[bentnotbroken]

Hey you

 

Of course, as usual, everything you say is legitimate and logical, but we all know my logic is hard-pressed to become reality at times with this guy.

 

As eloquent I can be with words, I still have trouble fully describing the reaction I really have to him....it's unlike anything I've felt with anything in my entire life. It's like a travesty to think of never speaking to him again, even from a purely platonic stand point , because that is how much I genuinely care for him.

 

Changing my number is a bit of a stretch, if only because I've had it for a decade and that's a bit much to do just because of one person. I know that if I asked him to never call me again he would likely oblige me, because I know him, and in a strange way I have more power than he does at times, but I have trouble using it to that extent....I could KEEP the No Contact going, but I was incapable of initiating it. Just like now, I would never initiate this whole "platonic" thing, but since he's brought it up, I now find mysef being in the position of maintaining it. For instance, with this whole friendship thing, I know that the "success" per say of it remaining platonic is really more on me than him. If I choose to keep it friendly, he would never try to make a move again unless he was certain I allowed him to. Granted, if I gave one inkling that I wanted him to kiss me, come upstairs, or whatever, I'm pretty certain he'd cave in (regardless of the guilty fit freak outs he'd have on and off after that), but it's been long enough that I know how this works with him.

 

This friendship thing, however, is something I have never legitimately tried with him. Is it strange that I am intrigued? Partially because I want to torture him and punish him a little bit by letting him see me without allowing him to touch me like I'm sure he wants, and partially because, honestly....I think inwardly I want him to realise what he's really missing, even if in the end he still wouldn't leave his wife.

 

Am I making sense? It's like, when the sex is the focus, I feel like that's what it becomes all about because of the hurried nature of our time together. It's like....if we have two hours to spend together, we could spend it talking and getting to know each other more and being emotional, or we could spend it f**king, but not always both, and that towards the end of our affair it became a constant sex-fest and I used to feel pretty badly about that, as much as it felt good in the moment, because I felt like we had ignored that personal connection we have. I feel like the last couple of weeks it's been so nice that we've just been talking like really close friends (aside from that first night when we slept together upon seeing each other for the first time again.) It's almost like we get to know each other all over again and I can see him realise just how much we are compatible on a personal level, and that it's NOT just a sexual compatibility, and I see this recognition on his face....and I like it. I really do, I admit it.

 

I like to see him squirming, and staring at me when he thinks I'm not looking as I drive him home after work like I did tonight. I like joking around with him and knowing he genuinly likes to be in my company.

 

And, let's be honest, since he is trying so hard to be my friend, he now gets to hear about all the other people I like or date, and I see how much it kills him but he continues to listen and offer advice because he knows HE is the one that has proposed this "friend" thing and, well, friends talk about that sort of thing now don't they.

 

I think if I can maintain the platonic element of this relationship that I won't get to that same tragic depression I put myself into last time....so, to answer your question, I don't know what I want. I know I want HIM, and I guess I feel like as a friend I feel better about myself, which I didn't feel all the time when I felt like I had just turned into a sex toy for him. At this point he's really making an incredible effort to call me just to ask me how my day is going, to try to be that friend he claims he can be, and I'm hard pressed to let that go at the moment.

 

Perhaps if I can really keep the friendship going it would be good for me in a sense, because I can tehn control the situation a little bit, and before I felt like I had really lost all control of the relationship and that had bothered me alot before. It's like I feel that he is respecting me right now and I'm enjoying this element of power I have right now. Maybe I fell back into the affair with him so many times in the past because the "end" was always so sudden....we'd be doing our thing and then all of a sudden he'd have a guilt fit, or his wife would catch him in a lie, and BOOM, he'd cut it off again, and I never felt like I had a say in it, and it always felt like he was ripped from me. Quick and painless works for ripping a Band-Aid off your skin, but it doesn't always work so well in trying to get a person out of your mind.

 

Despite the fact that it got easier to deal with the break up over the last 17 months, I never forgot about him. I'd still have days where I would sit and look at all his photos online and make myself sad thinking that he probably forgot all about me, and that he never really cared, and that he didn't miss me, and that I never meant anything to him.

 

Seeing him make such an effort just to be friends with me right now....it's confusing and at the same time has really had a calming effect on me knowing that all those days of thinking he didn't give a damn were not true. He does care, enough to make the effort to at least try to have me in his life as a friend. HE is the one proposing the platonic friendship...not me. This tells me that he really is trying to have me in his life without the sex part, and that I mean something, even though I don't know if he can really maintain it. I know we both WANT to rip each other's clothes off....that's a given. And frankly sometimes I wish it WAS only a physical attractio, because then I wouldn't give a damn if we ever spoke again or not. Sex is easy to find anywhere. Personal connections with someone....not so much.

 

I guess all the support is helping me to maintain this platonic element, which is REALLY hard for me to do, but it's the best sort of compromise I can think at the moment. I don't know if I could bear to totally tell him to get lost and never speak to me again right now.

 

Tell me if I'm being totally crazy or if anything I have said makes sense. Still trying to sort this out in my head.

:(SMDH. This sad.

[KismetGirl]

Not only did I read every word but I hung onto them like my favorite characters in a book. Wow. My heart is racing for you. It's what tragic love stories are made of. And I see that same scenario playing out in my future. I don't know that my mm and I will last, but I do believe we share a connection that neither of us will EVER share with another person again. Those looks, the touches, the smells, it becomes euphoric. No amount of NC could ever make me' forget and if in 1-2 years time it reappeared just as randomly as yours did, I would have been just as weak. I wish you all the best. I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell the platonic bit will work more than a month or two, but I think u are like me', willing to have him in your life regardless of what that takes, even if it means living in torment wanting him so badly for the rest of ur life. Do u realize you will likely gist be replacing a pa with an ea? Those can be just as earth shatteringly guilt ridden. At which point he may decide if he's going to feel the guilt anyway he may as well get the satisfaction too. Please continue posting. I desperately need to know how this plays out.

 

Thanks for being interested ;-) I seem to get that a lot. Either I write really well or people feel that sorry for me. Maybe I shoudl write a book? haha.

 

Anyway, yeah, it is likely that the PA could be replaced with an EA, though to be fair it's kind of like that anyway I guess. I have to say I have to appreciate that he has never done that thing I see so many other MM's do....he's never given me false promises. Do I think he is lying to himself that he can handle a platonic friendship? Yeah, a bit. But he insn't lying to me , I think he genuinly feels he has reached the only compromise he could logically come up with to keep me in his life without having to go home feeling like sh*te about sleeping with me.

 

He said so himself in the car that second night when we were chatting, that even though his wife wouldn't be thrilled if she knew we were hanging out, that there was a "certain level of being disingenuous" that he could handle.I think sometimes men have very different defitintions of what constitutes cheating. I read an article once in which a bunch of men, married or in relationships or what have you, were asked what they considered cheating, and they all considered actual sexual intercourse cheating, but many did not consider other things (anywhere from holding hands, having dinner with, and even in some cases oral sex) to be cheating. Somehow they could draw this fine line between certain activities. In that same vein, MM has somehow come to feel OK with seeing me, and feeling things for me, as long as it doesn't cross certain physical lines. Or that is how he's rationalised seeing me for the time being, anyway. I have a distinct feeling the more he starts to get caught up in his emotions for me, without the distraction of sex, it's going to be significantly harder for him to balance things, but I almost WANT him to feel that way.

 

I know he loves me. He knows it. He knows how I feel. If he was horrified at this, he could easily just have not decided to come back again. He didn't contact me again because he wanted to get laid. He can get laid at home if he really wants to. What he's missing is that extra spark with his wife. I know it, he knows it, but he has trouble admitting it to himself, and I want him to. I want him to get to a point where he is just a little more honest with himself about his life, because it has always angered me , this denial he's convinced himself of. If he wants to stay with his wife out of a sense of duty and companionate love for his family, that's fine, because I know that's what he has been doing for years, but the fact that he can't seem to admit it drives me nuts.

 

It's NOT my job to make him realise this of course, but that doesn't mean I don't really want him to.

[Angel1111]

I like to see him squirming, and staring at me when he thinks I'm not looking as I drive him home after work like I did tonight. I like joking around with him and knowing he genuinly likes to be in my company.

 

Hindsight being 20/20, I'll put this in simple terms, even though I know you'll persist down this path. And, yea, sometimes we have to learn things the way we need to learn them, so I'm not knocking it. I did the exact same thing - didn't listen to a word anyone said, thought that what MM and I had was up there with the stars and the indescribable astral world.

 

The best analogy that I can think of is that what you're doing is like playing with a rattlesnake and getting a buzz out of wondering whether it will strike or not. Here's the deal, while you're thinking about how clever and coy and tortorous you're being with him, he's thinking about how he knows if he continues playing this game with you, he's going to strike and hit his target, some way, some how. This is the truth because you have already proven to him that he can win. Now, not only are you entertaining him with this game, he's convinced he'll win.

 

I'm not saying that your MM is evil - this is simply how men think. He's going to land you at some point in time and while you think he has sorely underestimated you, you're going to turn around one day and find that you're the one who has underestimated him.

 

Take it for whatever it's worth....

[KismetGirl]

I hate to say this, but he isn't really interested in having you in his life unless there is a physical relationship. If he was, he would not have come to your bedroom.

 

If you want to be with him, then be with him - but don't let him pull the 'friends' thing on you. That is only for his benefit, not yours and I'd let him know that. It is too late for friends. It was too late for that 17 months ago, it was too late five years ago, and it is too late now that you and he have slept together again.

 

Tell him to get his head out of his ass. You and he are "together" or you aren't and there is no point in trying to juggle semantics in order to assuage guilt.

 

Well, I do agree that he would like to have the sex part. I'm not saying he has magically out of no where lost all sexual attraction towards me. What I think is that he has convinced himself that if we can be friends, he can have me in his life, and not feel like he is "cheating". In his mind being an adulterer is a physical thing.... I don't think he ever had a real romantic connection with his wife so it's hard for him to comprehend that emotionally connecting to someone else is cheating. When I dropped him off after work the other night he practically high fived me before jumping out of the car because I think he was afraid if he hugged me too much he wouldn't be able to contain himself. It was almost comical. He was driving behind me part of the way home before we split to different routes and kept joking around while he was driving, tossing things at me at red lights and being totally stupid, as if we were a couple of "buddies" joking around and being idiots. It's so bizarre. When I drove him home at one point I asked him a question and, honestly, put my hand on his leg for a second while asking him something, didn't even pay attention that I did it, and he looked like he was about to have a heart attack.

 

He appears to really, really have convinced himself that if he tries hard enough we can just be platonic friends. I don't doubt that he wishes he COULD shag me and maintain a guilt-free existence, but I don't know if he is capable. Six years of an affair/knowing him and while it got easier for him to cheat after a while, I don't think he was ever "OK" with it, per say.

 

My friend had an affair with a married guy once, and she used to tell me about this dude, and this guy had NO qualms about cheating. He'd done it multiple times, with mutliple women, had no problems staying out all night , lying to his wife, and could have sex with one woman and go home and kiss his wife and kids and said to her it didn't bother him at all because he was so good at getting away with it.

 

My MM....he's not like that. In a way that's why I like him, because I know he isn't a huge jerk off like that....he doesn't find women all over the place, and he's never done this with anyone but me. I think if he DIDN'T feel guilty it would be worse, but in a strange way he legitimately wants to try to make this platonic thing work, even if on the inside I know he wants me. He is trying to follow his head a bit right now....it doesn't negate what's in his heart I suppose. Just like I am trying to make this platonic thing work right now, I readily admit I WANT a physical relationship with him, but since that seems to complicate things, I am somehow willing to try to make the platonic thing happen.

 

When I dropped him off last night after work, it was the second time I've seen him this week, and on both occasions I did not even kiss him on the mouth. We hugged, kiss on the cheek, and as much as he looked like he was about to go crazy, that's all that happened. To not invite him upstairs....it was hard to do, but I felt kind of proud of myself for holding back.

 

Some might say I am weak for continuing to speak to him at all, but unless you are me, maybe they can't understand how hard it is to even refrain from kissing him when he's five inches from me. And I've managed to do it. I don't know how long it will last, but maybe it WILL last. It's a gamble...I don't know. Would it be that bad to see what would happen if we just stayed friends? Surely people who are attracted to each other have managed to just be friends before, no?

[KismetGirl]

The new guy doesn't have a chance if the exMM is still in your life. There's no way what you feel for the new guy compares to what you still feel for your exMM. And, with that said, feelings won't grow between you and the new guy. Your heart just won't allow it.

 

That might be true and it might not be...I think I am capable of liking someone new. Even when I wasn't speaking to MM , yes, I didn't like many people because I thought to myself that I shouldn't settle for someone I'm not really into. I am more than willing to meet someone new, trust me....I saw "new guy" on sunday and did not like him any less because I've seen MM lately. If it didn't work out it's not because of MM. I have another date on saturday and I am looking forward to it. I told MM all about it actually. i am being somewhat realistic...i don't expect to be in love with some new guy in two dates. It didn't take me two days to fall in love with MM, but I DID feel a connection right away, and I believe I can find that with someone else, I really do. I don't know....I'm trying, I really am. I thik the fact that I have NOT slept with MM again since that first night, despite seeing him several times, is a step in the right direction, no?

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, I've followed your story from the very beginning, and you two DID try the "friends" thing before, remember? It didn't work then, and I'm afraid it won't work now. I don't say this to make you feel bad, but I was SOOO disappointed to read your update, mainly because in the past I could identify with your feelings about your MM, because they kind of mirrored my own. Mine moved almost 3000 miles away without a word to me about it, and it took me a LONG time to get over it. In fact, I just now am, and it's been almost 3 years! I was so happy about your progress.

 

And I totally agree with WWIU. He DID manipulate the situation. He had the perfect excuse to re-open communication. And remember, it's been seventeen months now, which may have been enough time to lull his wife into a false sense of complacency. I think he's just trying to snow you with his feelings of "guilt". BS!! He wants you to think that he feels oh-so-guilty about having sex with you, when what he really wants is for YOU to suggest it/seduce HIM, so he can say, or think, that you're the temptress, that he wouldn't do anything if YOU just weren't the initiator. I think he has ZERO guilt. He just seems like a master manipulator to me. I know you don't want to see that, and pretty much REFUSE to see it. As for him wanting to be "friends"?? Another big BS..That is not what he wants. It's only a matter of days before you're in bed with him again. He'll act all guilty, and say it shouldn't have happened, and then the whole damn cycle will start over again.

 

Please don't become the OW again. I can't tell you how much I don't want to see that happen, but I fear it will,and then we will see you posting again down the road about how your heart is breaking yet again. He is not leaving his wife and kids; you know that, and he knows that. He dropped you 17 months ago because he got caught. He now wants to reignite the affair, regardless of what he says. He thinks he's safe for the time being.

 

Best wishes.

 

Thanks for the suport. I didn't want to be writing that post again, but I am trying to understand hwo to best handle this. The sudden end to the affair really tortured me, because in part I felt like I had NO control over what happened, and that he was just ripped from my life and I ached for that.

 

I don't know what he thinks about his reasons for contacting me again. Perhaps it was just a convenient opening to contact me again , but after all this time it seems to me that there's something there beyond just a physical thing of course. He's had some contact with me (limited to work conversations, as I've said) and those could have easily been openings for him as well. I needed a letter from him for school regarding when he used to supervise me, and he could have easily used that to make a meeting with me as well, but he didn't because I think he has been trying to do the right thing.

 

I know everyone believes that he just wants a shag and to lull me into some false sense of comfort, but isn't it possible he really does want to just try to have me around as a friend, if that's the only way we can be involved?

 

I used to tell him that I would rather be just friends than not have him in my life at all. Obviously, if given a choice, I would have always preferred to have a romantic involvement, BUT, I was not necessarily lying when I said that I would try to sacrifice some sadness in order to just have him in my life. I think this is what he is trying to do right now. He would rather be physically involved on top of our emotional involvement, but it's the physical part that makes him feel guilty so he's trying to avoid it in order to have some sort of contact with me.

 

I'm trying to do the right thing, but it's hard to totally get rid of him again now that he's sort of "around", but it has been very different. I think what no one has really noticed is that it's been like two weeks since we've made contact again, and we've seen each other multiple times, and ONLY on that first night did we sleep together. Considering our history...this is a completely novel thing. This has NEVER happened before. Every other time we made a reconnection, we lasted one meeting of being platonic before it went straight into a sexual affair again. That hasn't happened this time, and I think it's mostly because I have tried to maintain that this time around. Mybe it's all on me to really keep the platonic thing going, but maybe if I CAN do that, I would feel even better than I have in the long run knowing that I can hold back even with the temptation literally sitting right next to me.

[KismetGirl]

Be resentful and defensive all you want, but you brought this all on yourself. He's a married man thinking with the wrong head. He fished, you took bait.

 

YOU answered the text.

You invited him over.

You offered the couch.

You offered your bed.

You offered your body.

 

If you want to go through being the nasty little secret all over again, that's on YOU.

 

That's true, I certainly did. And since that night I have been doing rather well...have not offered him anything but my company and conversation. And I've been pretty thrilled that I've been able to do that.

 

It's like an alcoholic that feels she can now go to a bar with her friends and have fun , but doesn't have to have a drink to do so.

 

In that same comparison, if the alcoholic had to forgo ever going out with her friends just to avoid being near alcohol, she'd probably still get pretty depressed because she'd be missing out on the happiness of just being near her friends when they are all having fun. But if she can manage to be with all of them, and still refrain from having a drink....she feels even stronger about herself and happier. I think maybe that's why I've been trying to do this. I do care about him , and I do want him, but I do love him enough so that seeing him makes me smile, even when we aren't shagging, and I've been kind of happy that the last couple weeks I've seen him , what...at least 6 times in two weeks, and not one time have I let it cross the physical line since that first night. Maybe it's possible....

[KismetGirl]

Yes it is possible to be friends...but Kismet, be honest with yourself. You are still in love with him. YOU ARE STILL IN LOVE WITH HIM. That is why right NOW, you cannot be 'just friends' with him. Because YOU ARE STILL IN LOVE WITH HIM. ((hug))

 

And I fear that this new guy now doesn't stand a chance because you are back in touch with MM and because your feelings for him have been rejuvinated. Please - research your own history here and re-read what you wrote after it ended. I think so many of us hurt so badly FOR YOU because of what you went through. You were a walking zombie for months!!!

 

And because he does love his wife....it is almost like a competition for you again. You know he isn't leaving. You know he still cares for you. But to continue this 'friendship' is like playing with fire ... you will get burned.

 

Leave it as a slip up .... and say goodbye again to him. Maybe one day, when you are happily married with your own kids, you can pass him on the street and not feel what you are feeling again. And maybe your H and him can watch a ball game together and instead of thinking about MM, you will look at your H and thank the stars that you met him, you feel in love with him and that he accepts your past with him. BUT you can never be friends with MM behind your boyfriend/husband's back.

 

I do wish you well. When I first came to LS, your story was one that kept me coming back. Honestly I cried for YOU when you and he ended; because the raw pain that was so evident in your posts. I would hate to see you go through that again.

 

Good luck.

 

I know. Sometimes I get caught up in my own emtional rationalisations of why I should or could keep doing what I'm doing. Maybe I'm doing the same thing right now....maybe I really am just pleased that I've been able to keep up the resistance to his ever present temptation. I'd like to think I could keep this up. I don't think he can, per say, but I think that if I keep it up he'd have no choice. Like I said, he'd never make a move at this point unless I gave him the signal. I know him. He'd feel like too much of an idiot to go back on his whole 'lets be friends' proclamation unless I was the one to go back on it first, and I'm wondering, sincerely, if this time around I really CAN keep it up. Honestly, I never tried before....I always just gave in to immediate gratification. Sex was always an easy way to feel like he was connected with me, and in the end I think it made us less connected at some ways because he'd resent me for the guilty feelings even though I didn't MAKE him do anything, and this time around I feel like I'd like to try and see if we really keep up the personality connection without that element. We used to have it, and I miss it. These last couple weeks feels like when we first met and we WERE just friends. It feels kind of good. Strange? Maybe.

[Angel1111]

These last couple weeks feels like when we first met and we WERE just friends. It feels kind of good. Strange? Maybe.

 

No, there's nothing strange about it. It's actually extremely typical. You're making all the classic mistakes that all of us with xMM have made. It's like watching a train wreck.

[KismetGirl]

You could be me, writing about my xMM. The things you describe hit so close to home it's uncanny. The wonderful way he smells, how we both light up when we're around one another, the connection, how time and space apart seems to make no difference, even the 3 kids. Wow. It's like the same script in many ways.

 

Yea, the natural disaster that drove him back into your life is pretty strange. It must make you wonder if it's a sign of something that's meant to be. But knowing what I know now, I believe those things happen to give us a deeper insight, and that not all 'great loves' are destined to spend their lives together, that sometimes things like that happen in order to bring us a new level of peace. Now you know that what the two of you shared was indeed extremely real and deep.

 

But while you think he's not thinking of himself because of his kids, it would be better for you to understand that it's really more that he would think less of himself if he left his wife and kids to be with you. Once I realized that no matter what xMM and I shared, his family - wife and kids - were a completely different entitiy, with much more force and power that he and I would ever have. When I came to terms with that, I learned to let go. I let myself get angry about it and went through the whole range of emotions that I needed to in order to let him go. Maybe it's not necessary for you to do that, but I do think you need to come to terms with moving on. My xMM wanted the friendship thing, too, and I suppose we are in very loose terms. But I'm losing that connection with him now and that's really what needed to happen. It took 6 yrs for me to get to that point.

 

It was a great love that I had with MM but that kind of love is temporary and it isn't what I want; it isn't what I bargained for. I want a great love with a man who can share his life fully with me. I want a great love that lasts for the rest of my life. As much as I thought he was that person, MM wasn't. It was one of hardest things I've ever had to come to terms with.

 

I do agree with you about the needing more. I do know he can't give me what I want romantically right now. At all. Maybe never can. I know he has no intentions of leaving his family. The only time he ever looks happier than seeing me....is when he speaks about his children. Not his wife, mind you. He talks about her he looks bored and lamentable about his life. But when he talks about his kids he lights up and I know because of that he's not going anywhere right now....I sit every day wishing I'd meet someone to take my mind off him to make me believe that I can have this great connection with someone else, and I haven't given up hope yet. I don't know if I'm at the level where I can come to terms with everything. i DO accept that it isn't going anywhere, as great of a connection we have, I know it doesn't compare to the sort of committment and love he has for his kids and family as a whole. He doesn't lie to me and make me think that if I just wait around a bit he'll come around in that respect, so really it's mostly on me. He's been a little selfish in that he knows how I feel about him and he still got in touch with me again, but at the same time I don't think he intends to hurt me and in his last email to me he said to me that if I didn't think I could handle the friends thing that he'd understand if I didn't want to speak to him anymore, because he didn't want to hurt me again, but that he really hoped I would consider just trying to be friends so that we could have some sort of contact because he missed me so much.

 

That's hard to walk away from entirely I guess. I've come a long way from where I was 5 years ago, or even two years ago, or even 17 months ago. I know it doesn't seem that way, but it's true. 17 months ago I would have tossed ALL emotional well being into the wind and just slept with him over and over again, and then sat at home crying when he'd go home to his wife and I'd be in bed naked still smelling him on my sheets. Sucks.

 

but I haven't done that, barring the slip up that first night. I've been surprisingly "good" about this, and maybe that doesn't sound significant to some , but it is really a huge thing for me to be able to have him near me and not do that. Granted it's still a bit rough for a few seconds after he gets out of my car or whatnot , but instead of crying I've been actually smiling at our interactions. That's got to count for something...

[BB07]

Ahhhh KG, I think you think that just because you aren't having sex with him since that first night that it somehow makes it different and you'll be OK with it all and it will be easier this go around. Hon you aren't made of steel and you love this guy, sooner or later it will happen if you keep hanging out.

 

Take care of yourself KG......live your life for YOU, you will be better if he isn't a part of it and I say that from reading your past posts when you expressed all the pain you were in.

[KismetGirl]

This is not good KG. Nothing about this is good for YOU. Step back and think about how far you've come. Do you think you can handle getting all twisted up again about MM?

 

You know he isn't leaving. You know he loves his wife. You know he makes love to his wife. These are things that you couldn't deal with before. But let's say that you can deal with them now. Where does this leave you? Will you ever fall in love, get married, have children, etc. with MM in your life?

 

You tried the friends thing. It didn't work because he always ended up in your bed. But first he would make you "tempt" him so he could continue with the "guilt" game.

 

I hope you find the strength to walk away again and if you can't, I hope you at least find the strength to not allow him your body. I don't think he is looking for just an EA.

 

OT: How did you do on your exams? Are you Dr. KG yet?

 

Yeah, those are things I couldn't deal with before, which were all related to the sex, yet again. To be horrified that he'd take things we did in bed and try to do them at home, that was horrible for me.

 

But hey....as friends, there's nothing for him to take home and try out. In fact, I stay off that topic entirely, and he's the one hearing about my sex life in my dating life right now, and HE bloody hates it, but too bad for him. He's getting a taste right now of what it's like to hear about someone he cares about romantically being happy elsewhere in life. I don't tell him about how I still long for him...he doesn't need to know right now. If I am evil for enjoying the fact that he's the one occasionally feeling uncomfortable knowing he is in a "friend" position right now, then whatever, it may seem juvenile but I can't help it.

 

I told him not to speak to me about his wife, that I don't want to hear about it, and frankly he's obliging me. I think thinking about those things from before (eg- sex tricks with the wife) is what's helping me NOT sleep with him again other than that first night, which was...well, it was unexpected.

[LucreziaBorgia]

Like I said, he'd never make a move at this point unless I gave him the signal.

 

I dunno Kis, he may be pulling the 'platonic' thing knowing you are going to continue to go against it - that way he can be passive in the whole thing and let you carry the 'blame' for it being an affair.

 

It sounds like conflict avoidance at its best.

 

I'm not saying that he doesn't like you or care about you - only that he is letting you set the physical pace while he is pretending to have 'boundaries'.

 

No one can have sex and have feelings for someone and honestly think they can be platonic - but it is pretty easy to call it that if it suits his purpose.

 

Think about it carefully now - what really has changed after 17 months? It looks like the only thing that has changed is that he wants to call what you have 'platonic' for whatever reason. To me, that would be a huge step down to have someone doing and acting like they are 'with' me but calling it in such a way as to appear that they aren't.

 

The last few weeks may feel like friendship, but is it friendship? Real genuine friendship? Would someone who cares about you truly as a friend put you back into hell when you just got out of it? You are still having an affair - you just aren't acting on the physical part as much. That isn't friends. That is just constraint. Platonic doesn't just mean "no sex".

 

I wonder what he would do if you called his bluff and really did make it platonic? As in, no physical touching of any sort, no eye contact, no personal/emotional conversation, no appearance of any sexual tension - in other words you treat him like you would a coworker that you aren't particularly close to but comfortable around? You are treating him like you love him, even with the stabs at him you take when you talk about other lovers.

 

I'd give him a dose of his own bullsh*t if he pulled that on me - if wants platonic, I'd serve it up big time, and I'd serve it up icy cold as well.

[newlife2010]

KG,

 

I have been here and done this. Please take it from me and don't waste another several years getting over this, because that's where you are headed, if you aren't there already. Don't waste eight years like I did. I have read your past threads so I know what you have already gone through with this man, and I can relate.

 

He is calling you during the day to ask how you day has gone? Come ON!!! Do your other friends do this??!!! Do you really believe this is a "friend" thing!?!?!

 

He does not want to be your friend and you do not want to be his friend. You both are thinking about MORE. But... NOTHING HAS CHANGED on his end. He is still married. You are still going to end up in the same place. With him going back to his WIFE.

 

Please. I am begging you, but I know you won't listen, because I read your messages and you are a wonderful writer... and I can tell that you have fallen all over again. You aren't going to listen.

 

Damn him!!! For doing this to you!!! He is a MANIPULATOR!!!

[KismetGirl]

 

OT: How did you do on your exams? Are you Dr. KG yet?

 

PS- not Dr. KG just yet....almost there though :-) Kinda enjoying that too. I think he rather loves that I'm an intelligent person with a bright future.

 

But hey, maybe he wants a stay-at-home mom to stay with the kids. That's what his wife is. I'm not knocking it....my mom stayed at home for a few years when I was a kid, but it's not for me. I'd love to be a mom one day, but I'd want to balance it. I couldn't be a stay at home mom like his wife and not work for a decade. She and I....we're very different, in every way imaginable. Looks, personality....it's a wonder.

[whichwayisup]

You've obviously made up your mind so all I can say is, I will be here for you when things go south again.. Sadly for you it will because of the repeat pattern you two have together. This won't work but I guess you need to see it through (again) before you truly realize that this guy is toxic for you and is about to break your heart all over again. My worry is how much this guy will ruin everything that you've worked hard for in the past xx amount of months. You as a person, your career.. Also, knowing his home situation, his kids.. Get ready for another D-Day.

 

Try the friendship, see how long that lasts. It's doubtful that you can stay platonic if you see him weekly, and eventually daily. The habit and addiction to him is going to come back full-on and his addiction to you too. The circle game.

[2themoon&back]

KG,

 

i do not know your whole story, and don't really need to, to understand just where you are!!!

 

i am at the beginning of my 3rd month of NC, and i have not left my house, (except to go to IC in almost 2 months) i have been on leave from work since Aug 12th (me and xMM work together)... my life is upside down and inside out... i no longer recognize it as "my life" so i think i can say i know where you have been with this situation.... with that said let me get to the point of my post...

 

i get it !!!!

 

i totally get where you are and why you are there!! YOU ARE NOT READY to move on... no matter how much you think you SHOULD want to move on or how much time has passed or what others think you should do ---you are not ready to move on! you must have very stong feelings for this man and that will not change until you are ready to change it !

 

the reason i say this with such conviction is because... i have been doing this for yrs with xMM, and my IC keeps telling me -- you will move when you are ready and not a minute before-- she is right!

 

i have had NC and i am still right in the same place, not wanting to let go of the A, or the xMM, even though he has... I AM NOT READY to move and no one can do this for us and i know if xMM would contact me... i would be right back on the roller coaster, because i have not gotten off of it to start with!! i have such an internal fight with myself and my good sense, my head, my heart, and my gut.

 

i will keep trying to deal with just being where i am first and then maybe i will be able to do something different???

 

as for you, you have to do whatever it is that you feel you need to in this situation, and that is if you need to play it out again and again and again, then go ahead, the heart wants what it wants when it wants it...even knowing it may not be good for us in the end ….. We still need to know that for ourselves!!

 

I believe I am a “little bit” of an addict myself… my question is to myself… am I addicted to LOVE or the HEARTBREAK …? I tend to think it is the latter of the two but I cannot get one without the other, so I understand why I do not want off the roller coaster, I would have to start all over again!!

 

My heart goes out to you, I know you are trying to just live in the moment and the situation as it unfolds, I wish you all the strength, you will need to deal with the outcome of it all, no matter what that is --you will need strength!! So take good care of yourself and I hope you keep posting as I am sure you will, you seem to have a lot of support here !!!

[KismetGirl]

Hi KG. Sorry you fell back into this.

 

From my experience the best way to extricate yourself is to remember the reason you are no longer together

 

The time he told you he shared your "tricks" with his wife and all the other stuff that made it impossible for you to go on with him. Remember the awful pain and humiliation and depression when it ended. Those are the things that should make you run from this man

 

he showed his true colors when you were together and it wasnt pretty

 

So you have a chemistry. And?? Being with him almost drove you over the edge 17 months ago. What makes you think it would be any different now?

 

And Im speaking from experience over 3 years later MM still periodically makes known that he wants me back. And?? No way.

 

He hasnt said I couldnt bear to be without you these 17 months, I have thought about it and Im leaving. He said lets be friends and his behavior says if you are OK being FWB thats just fine by me.

 

That is not flattering. That is not "fate" or "true love" that is him being a cake eater again now that his W has calmed down.

 

HI JJ

 

I'm glad you have been avoiding your MM....I wish i could be as strong sometimes.

 

This response is delayed, apologies, I've been trying to respond to everyone in turn. I haven't even read all the "new" posts yet lol

 

But anyway, you're right, as always, like many others on here.

 

I was sitting and thinking about the "bad" times. The "good" memories are really strong and have a knack for blurring the bad ones , I will admit, and I think the fact that I am so stressed out with other things, and that I am lacking a genuine romantic connection with anyone right now (there are some guys here and there, but by and large no one that I'm remotely serious with or really crazy over at the moment) and I think the fact that I DO have, at the least, a very emotional connection with MM....I miss that, I admit, and seeing him again reminded me how nice it is to be with a man you really, really care about. And in that moment it's easy to forget all those horrid moments, like sitting in my bed naked after sleeping together while he fumbles with trying to answer the phone because his wife is calling wondering where he is.

 

THOSE memories suck. And the last few days I was pretty good. I spoke to him last on wed, briefly, but I was pretty good about not doing it today or yesterday. I know that doesn't sound like much...but I am trying. I can't promise I won't pick up the phone if/when he calls me next week, but, I have refrained from sleeping with him again these last couple of weeks. Whether it's because I secretly want to torture him, or because I'm curious about what a "friendship" with him would be like, I don't know right now, but I do know that I am having sincere difficulty with totally telling him to bugger off and never speak to me again. That one little request takes an enormous amount of willpower and I'm having some trouble with it....

 

But hey, I went out tonight and spent all night chatting with some random fellow, a rather cute one, and didn't think about MM but once the whole evening.

 

There's hope for me yet....the rough spot is going to be when undoubtedly MM will call me again next week....the weekends, you know, he disappears. Off home with the family. The rest of the test comes during the week......wish me luck that I can keep the "no sleeping with MM" thing going. I think if I can manage that for a while it'll be easier....

[KismetGirl]

KG, I read your story with interest. In fact, your story is the reason I went from lurking status to registering so I could post.

 

Your original post was heartwrenching and eloquent. I don't believe your MM is a terrible person. I believe he is involved emotionally as deeply as you are, and doesn't know where to go with it. Please don't ever believe that this man didn't love you... he did, and does. He isn't a cake-eater or a liar or a jerk. He is a man who is trying to do the right thing by everyone.

 

I know how you feel. I've been living it myself for the last five years. I too have tried to convince myself that "friends" could work. It hasn't... it doesn't. Despite the love on both ends. I too don't want to see you setting yourself back years by having to go through the pain again, but I know exactly... EXACTLY... how you feel. I don't know the advice to give, because me telling you to forget him would just be stupid at this point.

 

I suspect you are where I am... which is that I don't WANT to feel this way, after so many ups and downs and several years of stops and starts and NC's and ending it and starting again..... but I still love him. And what it all comes down to, is that I don't WANT to start over, I don't have any desire to feel that way about someone else, I have tried dating before and my heart was still with him, and it held me back. How do you conquer that? I don't know.

 

I wish you the best KG. I know how you feel and where you are, only too well. I wish I had the answers. I can just say to please ignore people who give you grief for being where you are.

 

I do ignore people who give me grief, mostly. I don't respond well to people who insult me, never have, but I try to ignore those mostly.

 

But otherwise, you hit it on most things, except for one....I DO want to feel it with someone else. I really do. I am fully ready, willing, and perhaps even capable of feeling this with someone else....I just have always been the sort of person who very rarely meets other people I have a genuine connection with. I can get along with anyone, but as for really having an emotional connection with a man, well, it's a rarity. I just don't meet many that I feel attracted to on both a physical and mental level, and call me crazy, but I need both.

 

I've had relationships where it was purely one or the otehr (physical OR mental) and those never last. I see way too many relationships fall int a comfort level of dullness (kinda like MM's marriage come to think of it) and frankly I'd never want to be in his position.

 

I do genuinely believe in, and want, a relationship with someone totally available, which I know MM is sadly not, and likely never will be.

 

Like I told JJ....I went out tonight and met this guy who I was introduced to through a mutual interest group we're in. I literally sat and spoke to him for, what, 4-5 hours? Thought he was totally hot, really smart. Didn't think about MM once in the course of our conversation. Only when I had a moment in which I wasn't sure if the guy was responding the way I wanted did I think of MM, which is my point, in that while I do believe I am CAPABLE and desiring of a relationship with a new person, I am lamenting that any time something goes wrong in my love life, I fall back into MM's arms because he is, as I've said...comfort. He is something I know. He is, for all his negative attributes...predictable.

 

I think one day I'll meet someone new.....my life is a bit rough right now.

 

In case you need an example of how hard it is for me to have a normal social life, take this into consideration: it is now 4 am and I've just gotten home in the last hour. I have to be at the hospital at 7 am, so there's no point in my sleeping because I'm totally wired and awake right now. My options lately are either A) sleep and have no social life or B) try to be social sometimes, but give up on sleeping. I like option B better, but it gets exhausting sometimes.

 

I would love,love, love to meet someone new that I connect with, and I welcome that opportunity. I just hope it happens, because alas...I really love that emotional connection, and it is addicting, and I think most people feel that way when they like someone. I do agree with you....despite the fact that most people here will disagree with me, I do not think MM is a bad person, nor a manipulator (at least not purposefully). I think he is emotionally confused and trying to do what he believes is the right thing, by keeping his family together, and I believe he has genuinly convinced himself that keeping me as a "friend" will satiate some of his emotional needs for me without feeling like, as he said, the "bad person" or "the adulterer." I think he's a bit in denial....but he's not a bad person. If he was, he'd be one of those married cheaters who just bangs different women all of the time. God knows he's charming and cute enough to get any number of women to sleep with him....and while he loves the sex, I'm not convinced that's why he contacted me again.

 

Oh well. One can hope I find someone else. You never know I guess. Maybe the guy I was speaking to tonight works out. Maybe a guy I meet next month, or next year. Who the hell knows anymore. I have come to the lamentable conclusion that it is entirely probably that I may never really be able to withdraw from MM's hold unless I DO meet someone else. I wish I could say otherwise....but let's be honest. It's been 6 years and the only time I've ever been able to really stay away from him was when I was dating my ex, who's the closest I've come to feeling the way I do about MM, and as soon as we broke up...came right back to MM.

[KismetGirl]

Totally in agreement with these sentiments.

 

I read the whole story too. I do sometimes think things happen for a reason.

 

Applaud you for your honesty - about weakness and also about the tremendous highs of love....

 

Definitely please keep posting.

 

Thanks.

 

No need to be anything but honest here. No one knows me right? ;-)

 

I read back on thinks I write sometimes and think "god i sound like a desperate, pathetic, idiot" or "god i'm really trying to rationalise this idiocy", but hey, writing things out has its purpose in that you can look back on all the bollocks you're writing and try to make better sense of it later I suppose.

 

It all takes time to sort in your mind I think. I'm still sorting nearly 6 years after I get this man....it's been upa nd down but I have to say it's been a learning experience. He's had a big effect on my life and perhaps how I view relationships has become cynical in some ways, but I also think I've become more cautions and/or realistic at times....which might not be a bad thing. I've been privy to a perception on relationships that many women do not get in thier relationships....and strangely I think if I can take this information, the sort of disrest I've seen men have in their relationships with women, and take it into my own , I think I can end up having a more successful relationship in the long run than many , many other people because I am not going to be in denial of some of the more basic elements that some women may not be aware of because, let's face it, many men are not good about verbalising their unrest. And then they end up doing things like becming an MM....

 

Well. We'll see, I suppose. Stay tuned, you'll hear all about it here I'm sure...

[Hazyhead]

I'm gutted for you, Kismet. I know you're enjoying this guy's company and attentions right now and the stirring of all those old feelings but this has such doom written all over it, and the crazy thing is - you know. We can all try to talk you down until we're blue in the face but the fact remains that having been through this before, horribly so, and it being no different this time (except maybe with even less commitment to you), you know full well what you are heading towards and are trundling on regardless. 17 months and here you are, back again. I hope you pull out of this. Completely. Being friends with him will suck you back in to his vortex and that'll bring all the drama and pain back.

 

Take care of yourself and remember how much you are worth. Please don't take less than you deserve.

 

Hugs,

Hazy.

[whichwayisup]

The only way you're going to find love and connect with a man is to cut the MM out of your life and really grieve him, let go completely. Make it over in your mind, forever. There's no way any man is going to steal your heart if he's still in the picture, even as a friend because the friendship will just feed your feelings and keep it all alive.

[silverplanets]

....

Oh well. One can hope I find someone else. You never know I guess. Maybe the guy I was speaking to tonight works out. Maybe a guy I meet next month, or next year. Who the hell knows anymore. I have come to the lamentable conclusion that it is entirely probably that I may never really be able to withdraw from MM's hold unless I DO meet someone else. I wish I could say otherwise....but let's be honest. It's been 6 years and the only time I've ever been able to really stay away from him was when I was dating my ex, who's the closest I've come to feeling the way I do about MM, and as soon as we broke up...came right back to MM.

 

KmG,

 

I've apologise profusely but I've not read the post properly not tracked the story ...

 

so just a thought with no substance ....

 

maybe you won't meet someone else until you DO deal with your feelings for MM .....????

 

as I said, just a thought ... feel free to ignore :-)

 

Chris

[newlife2010]

Hey KG...

 

I am a physician, so from that perspective I know what you're going through. I'm not sure what phase of education you are in now. You are working in a hospital but it doesn't seem that you are through med school yet so I'm guessing you are not in a residency. ?? But still... you can't maintain a schedule of getting home at 4AM and not going to bed, then going to work at 7AM. It's not fair to your patients.

 

Hang in there KG...

[kuma]

The problem is that these men like to dream about an accomplished woman, somehow they are also afraid of such a woman I think. Because an accomplished woman does not "need" a man the way their SAHM needs them. The SAHM will never leave them, the accomplished woman will eventually if they don't treat her well.

I have noticed this when I told my xMM's W about his cheating. All she was interested in was to know if he intended on leaving her or not. If I heard from an OW that my H had been cheating on me for the last 6 years, my worry would not be whether he wants to stay or not with me...

 

Why do these accomplished and intelligent women need MM? Do you think OP's MM's wife never accomplished anything in her life because she stays at home taking care of HIS children?

Edited October 4, 2010 by kuma