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Fascinating Studdy of Sex amongst Sexless females.....

Toodamnpragmatic

By Toodamnpragmatic
in Marriage and Life Partnerships

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mem11363 Established Member

mem11363

Posted
Posted (edited)

A vast universe separates these two behaviors:

1. Fuvk me tonight or I am heading out to the local meat market.

2. IF you are:

a. Not attracted to me, or

b. For whatever reason do not enjoy sex with me OR

c. Wish to pretend/claim you DO enjoy sex but simply are not willing to engage in acceptably frequent sexual relations with me (and YES I get to define what is acceptable to me)

THEN I will take a lover and we will agree ground rules regarding me being discreet.

 

The former (1) is an aggressive threat. The latter (2) is simply an assertion of your needs/boundaries. The folks who wrote the Judeo/Christian rulebook on fidelity did so in a time and place where women generally didn't have the option of saying "not tonight honey". Consequently there ARE no rules regarding sexless marriages.

 

In the absence of rules to apply to a given situation, use common sense.

 

If you allow your spouse to simultaneously:

- Treat sex as if it is totally unimportant AND

- Threaten to leave you if you have it with anyone else

 

Then you have turned the keys of your life over to your spouse. If you can live like that more power to you. I can't. This is a partnership not a master/slave relationship.

 

 

"I really think that many women after marriage make it their mission to become as difficult as possible."

 

BS! I'm glad I do not have a mindset like this. :rolleyes Maybe with bitter mindsets like that, is WHY some people don't get it from their wives.

 

 

 

 

"I in no way condone cheating behind a woman's back but I see very little wrong with telling a woman that if she won't give it then you will get it elsewhere."

 

Sounds like a threat, and not productive. I guess some don't mind to get pity sex (if they don't get any or often, I guess its better than nothing) So if you tell the wife they better or you'll get it elsewhere, wow when or if she does give it to you, must make you feel good to know it was all because of your threat. :rolleyes: Oh and by the way, a woman has just as much right then to say, "If you don't start meeting my needs emotionally, then I'm going to find it elsewhere!" And yeah, some do, just like those that physically cheat do as well, man or woman.

 

"Why should a man have to live like a catholic priest?"

 

They shouldn't have to. So if things are simply NOT working and all is falling of deaf ears no matter what you do or say, then thats when you get out of the situation. Set yourself free and her. Or you stay in it and make peace with it, or you keep complianing how you don't understand why you're not getting it.

Edited by mem11363
mem11363 Established Member

mem11363

Posted
Posted

THIS shows commitment and love. On both your parts. Effort means a lot in marriage.

 

 

Yes, she does, she tries to be loving even when the loving feeling isn't there. She tries to understand my need for physical intimacy though that need is not strong in her. So we even though the intimacy is not what I'd like, she meets me somehere in the middle and does the best she can. That goes a long way with me, since she hasn't abandoned my feelings as some have mentioned their wives have done when their libido drops.
xxoo Established Member

xxoo

Posted
Posted
sorry, xxoo... something so simple? I don't think you ever lived with somebody with BIG issues...

 

 

You're right, I haven't. It is really difficult for me to understand.

 

What I do know, as a woman, is that frequent sex often involves getting in bed, naked, not turned on, and giving your partner and the body contact a chance to get you in the mood. If a woman is unwilling to try sex unless she is already "in the mood", she is probably unlikely to experience an improvement in her perception of her libido.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

Posted
Posted
What I do know, as a woman, is that frequent sex often involves getting in bed, naked, not turned on, and giving your partner and the body contact a chance to get you in the mood. If a woman is unwilling to try sex unless she is already "in the mood", she is probably unlikely to experience an improvement in her perception of her libido.

 

This is sooo true.

jamesum Established Member

jamesum

Posted
Posted

Men, in order to understand women, you need to know how it feels to have low testosterone. Its very different. You can see a really attractive person but you have no sexual desire toward that person at all.

mem11363 Established Member

mem11363

Posted
Posted

X,

What you posted below is the truest thing about our marriage. AND it is also true that I play soft and slow until she gets warm/hot. So I don't touch her in an "overtly" sexual way until she wants me to. And since she can how much I like the non-sexual contact she doesn't feel "rushed".

 

 

You're right, I haven't. It is really difficult for me to understand.

 

What I do know, as a woman, is that frequent sex often involves getting in bed, naked, not turned on, and giving your partner and the body contact a chance to get you in the mood. If a woman is unwilling to try sex unless she is already "in the mood", she is probably unlikely to experience an improvement in her perception of her libido.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

Posted
Posted
X,

What you posted below is the truest thing about our marriage. AND it is also true that I play soft and slow until she gets warm/hot. So I don't touch her in an "overtly" sexual way until she wants me to. And since she can how much I like the non-sexual contact she doesn't feel "rushed".

 

Bingo! :bunny:

 

Between your two posts, you and xxoo have hit the nail right on the head. :)

giotto Established Member

giotto

Posted
Posted
X,

What you posted below is the truest thing about our marriage. AND it is also true that I play soft and slow until she gets warm/hot. So I don't touch her in an "overtly" sexual way until she wants me to. And since she can how much I like the non-sexual contact she doesn't feel "rushed".

 

that's what we always did, but she is not prepared to put enough effort in the marriage to repeat it more often, especially now that I don't put any pressure on her. But then she has big issues and I have to accept it, although I can't accept that she won't fix herself and until she does that I can't be close emotionally anymore.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

Posted
Posted
that's what we always did, but she is not prepared to put enough effort in the marriage to repeat it more often, especially now that I don't put any pressure on her. But then she has big issues and I have to accept it, although I can't accept that she won't fix herself and until she does that I can't be close emotionally anymore.

 

Are you 'allowed' to touch your wife in a non-sexual way Giotto? Can you hug her or stroke her? Or is it that you no longer want to?

giotto Established Member

giotto

Posted
Posted
Are you 'allowed' to touch your wife in a non-sexual way Giotto? Can you hug her or stroke her? Or is it that you no longer want to?

 

I'm actually scared to do that (I feel like running away screaming) because of previous rejections, so, no, I don't really... for a number of years, after she "shut down" and her issues got overwhelming (please note that I know this now, I didn't know at the time, because she never told me despite my questions), I put pressure on her for sex. She hated it and got to associate sex with something negative. Everytime I cuddled her or touched her in a non sexual way, she thought I was doing that because I wanted sex. She thought I was doing the chores because I wanted sex (not true at all). Anything I did it was for sex. Ok, I put her under pressure, but I didn't know about her issues and she never told me anything, so I was totally lost.

 

Fast forward to now: things are better on a relationship level (but I had to threaten divorce twice and we actually separated for a few months), but I don't want to get involved emotionally because I don't want to get hurt again. I think it's very difficult for her to erase the negative feelings about sex and her issues are still there, although she's learned to cope with them. So, it's a mess. I have my faults, but there is no pressure about sex now (and hasn't been any for months and months and months). So, I have done my part. She has to sort her issues out, but I know she never will because she doesn't want to talk about them (they relate to her upbringing and family life, but not abuse). So, I cannot afford to be involved emotionally until she fixes herself and she won't. It's a stalemate.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

Posted
Posted

I don't know your full story or obviously the issues your wife has Giotto but it seems to me she falls into the category of women not wanting sex for reasons other than just 'loss of interest'.

 

Have you tried discussing the possibility of hugs and hand holding - making it clear that you have no expectations of anything more? Even telling her you love her when she doesn't expect it could make a difference.

 

A lot of the sexless or low sex marriages on here seem to be stuck in an impasse of some kind - maybe a different one in each case. Surely, for each one, there must be something that will trigger a change in the relationship.

 

In the case study the women were 'told' by professionals that they had to have sex twice a week. Unfortunately, we don't know if this alone could bring about a change because the study posted doesn't give that information. However, we do know that a change of something brought about a change in the sex lives of some of the participants and the relationships improved as a result.

 

I'm not suggesting anything as radical as drugs or 'forced' sex twice a week, but something really tiny can have the most enormous impact on the dynamics of a relationship if you can just find out what that is.

 

In my marriage, my husband was the one who wouldn't change, and so I instigated some invisible (to him) experimental changes myself which made a difference. Sadly, they weren't changes I was prepared to live with - for me the compromise was too great and things inevitably returned to normal very quickly. I didn't have the chance to keep trying because he left me.

 

Just trying to give some hope to you guys who think there is none. If you're both still there in the marriage, presumably it's because you want to be. The willingness to make things better does have to come from both sides, of course, but the first steps towards change can be made by either one.

giotto Established Member

giotto

Posted
Posted

Little Tiger, my wife has also no sex drive because she is on ADs. It's just a bunch of factors and in order for us to recreate the relationship we once had and enjoyed (I would say for about 10 of our 25 years together), she needs to resolve her issues. Once she resolves her issues, she will be able to stop taking ADs and we will be "normal" again. When she stopped taking the ADs a couple of times, our sex life came back with a vengeance. Unfortunately, she "cannot live without them" (I'm quoting her here).

 

I also think it will take her a long time to trust me again completely. I did become very difficult to live with at some point and she left me. Everything seemed to be my fault, until a few months ago she confessed to me that it was indeed her fault, her issues were destroying us and that she would tackle them. Needless to say that she hasn't done anything about it.

 

So, now it's me who's having a trust problem. Also, I don't think I will ever get over the fact that she actually left me. It hurts a lot. All in all, I don't think I can trust her again and I don't want to be hurt. My mother was like what she'd become after 10 years: cold and distant, rejecting me, all wrapped-up in her problems, whilst I always pined for love and affection. So, yes, there is a lot going on. Why am I staying? Because she is my wife and we have a deep bond after all these years and I love my children dearly... it's just strange how history repeats itself...

 

 

I don't know your full story or obviously the issues your wife has Giotto but it seems to me she falls into the category of women not wanting sex for reasons other than just 'loss of interest'.

 

Have you tried discussing the possibility of hugs and hand holding - making it clear that you have no expectations of anything more? Even telling her you love her when she doesn't expect it could make a difference.

 

A lot of the sexless or low sex marriages on here seem to be stuck in an impasse of some kind - maybe a different one in each case. Surely, for each one, there must be something that will trigger a change in the relationship.

 

In the case study the women were 'told' by professionals that they had to have sex twice a week. Unfortunately, we don't know if this alone could bring about a change because the study posted doesn't give that information. However, we do know that a change of something brought about a change in the sex lives of some of the participants and the relationships improved as a result.

 

I'm not suggesting anything as radical as drugs or 'forced' sex twice a week, but something really tiny can have the most enormous impact on the dynamics of a relationship if you can just find out what that is.

 

In my marriage, my husband was the one who wouldn't change, and so I instigated some invisible (to him) experimental changes myself which made a difference. Sadly, they weren't changes I was prepared to live with - for me the compromise was too great and things inevitably returned to normal very quickly. I didn't have the chance to keep trying because he left me.

 

Just trying to give some hope to you guys who think there is none. If you're both still there in the marriage, presumably it's because you want to be. The willingness to make things better does have to come from both sides, of course, but the first steps towards change can be made by either one.

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

Posted
Posted
Little Tiger, my wife has also no sex drive because she is on ADs. It's just a bunch of factors and in order for us to recreate the relationship we once had and enjoyed (I would say for about 10 of our 25 years together), she needs to resolve her issues. Once she resolves her issues, she will be able to stop taking ADs and we will be "normal" again. When she stopped taking the ADs a couple of times, our sex life came back with a vengeance. Unfortunately, she "cannot live without them" (I'm quoting her here).

 

I also think it will take her a long time to trust me again completely. I did become very difficult to live with at some point and she left me. Everything seemed to be my fault, until a few months ago she confessed to me that it was indeed her fault, her issues were destroying us and that she would tackle them. Needless to say that she hasn't done anything about it.

 

So, now it's me who's having a trust problem. Also, I don't think I will ever get over the fact that she actually left me. It hurts a lot. All in all, I don't think I can trust her again and I don't want to be hurt. My mother was like what she'd become after 10 years: cold and distant, rejecting me, all wrapped-up in her problems, whilst I always pined for love and affection. So, yes, there is a lot going on. Why am I staying? Because she is my wife and we have a deep bond after all these years and I love my children dearly... it's just strange how history repeats itself...

 

Unfortunately I can totally relate to your wife. Six months after my ex and I married, something nasty happened to us that resulted in me suffering from PTSD. I was on and off ADs for years and despite our marriage lasting nearly 10 years (we were together for 14) we both agreed that my illness played a huge part in destroying 'us'.

 

As you've obviously gathered from my posts, I have a naturally high sex drive, but I know it can be completely wiped by ADs. I guess the difference here is that I missed who I was without the drugs. It took me 7 years before I decided enough was enough. I got myself well and my sex drive came back with a vengeance. Sadly it was too late for our marriage. There's lots more too it, of course, but I now understand what you're saying.

 

I refused to go back on ADs when the marriage ended because I didn't want to lose the 'real me' again. So in your case, you're right, it is her decision. If she won't have therapy, or face up to her depression without drugs then I do agree that there isn't much you can do to change things. You have my sympathy. :(

giotto Established Member

giotto

Posted
Posted
You have my sympathy. :(

 

Cheers! :) She is not depressed, though, she has recurrent, repetitive and unwanted thoughts. The ADs are the only way she can control them. Obviously, she has the option of seeing a therapist, so to erase the root of her problems and her illness, but she won't do that. I can sympathise with this. Must be horrible to have to face your demons. Unfortunately, this has destroyed our marriage. She was ok when I met her and, although I knew about her family problems, she never mentioned or let transpire she was so affected by it. I suppose she wasn't, but about 10 years ago she started taking the ADs, without even mentioning it to me! I just could not drag anything out of her. She wouldn't talk to me, everything was "fine", although clearly it wasn't. So, I gave up in the end. I just couldn't care about it anymore, started drinking to kill the pain, started taking ADs myself to kill the libido and f***k everything else! She left me after a couple of years. Rightly so. But I thought it wasn't my fault. I'm not like that anymore. I stopped. I'm free of everything and in a good place mentally. We are ok, we have talked, but it's stalemate...

 

I'll stop now... apart from hijacking the thread, it must be boring reading all this personal crap... :D

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

Posted
Posted

Not boring at all Giotto, not for me anyway, but perhaps for others. :D

 

I was taking the ADs for the same reason as your wife - that's what PTSD does to you.

 

One last thought. Even on ADs, I never lost the need to be physically close. I still liked to be hugged and kissed and hold hands etc. Perhaps that's what held us together for so long - who knows!

 

I'd say the best course of action for any man with a low sex drive wife is to keep the non-sexual contact going to whatever degree is possible. You can't expect it to lead to sex, any more than you can expect doing the housework to, but at least it keeps some level of emotional and physical intimacy. All assuming your wife will allow it! :eek:

 

Hell, human beings are so damn complicated! :laugh:

 

Apologies to TDP for the TJ.

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

Posted
Posted
What I do know, as a woman, is that frequent sex often involves getting in bed, naked, not turned on, and giving your partner and the body contact a chance to get you in the mood. If a woman is unwilling to try sex unless she is already "in the mood", she is probably unlikely to experience an improvement in her perception of her libido.

 

X,

What you posted below is the truest thing about our marriage. AND it is also true that I play soft and slow until she gets warm/hot. So I don't touch her in an "overtly" sexual way until she wants me to. And since she can how much I like the non-sexual contact she doesn't feel "rushed".

 

Yes!

 

I really believe these two attitudes, male a female, together, are what allows a sexual relationship to stay active longterm. I'd add that the man (having his needs fulfilled on a regular basis) is able to get physically close and gracefully accept "sorry, it just isn't happening for me right now" sometimes, too.

 

I wonder if some women who feel "low libido" are actually women who avoid the kind of touch that creates libido.

 

And, if so, the important question is not "how do I increase my libido?", but rather "how do I get more comfortable with intimate, non-sexual touch?"

  • 1 month later...
Floridaman Established Member

Floridaman

Posted
Posted
TDP, how does your wife feel about her body? Is she self confident, or could it be she has body image issues, which then drives away the want for ANYONE to see her naked? That can happen.

 

Anyway, I just want to add that my sweety also "does everything" around the house. BUT - one of the things I just ADORE about making love with him is that AFTERWARD he strokes my body all over which makes me feel absolutely loved and cherished. After lots of stroking, he takes one of my pillows and puts it in the crook of his arm and cradles me, holding me until I fall asleep. You have NO idea how wonderful that feels to be completely loved like that! :love:

Donna,

I'm going to print off this advice like advice given from some other good women like dreamingoftigers in other threads.

This women's perspective really helps and may help me "win back" my wife's sexual affection in bed again. I've gone a year or so without ML and I can't stand it anymore. (Okay, we ML but no climax for me a couple of weeks ago)... It's improving a little,... will post more in a sep. thread.

Just wanted to thank you here.

musemaj11 Established Member

musemaj11

Posted
Posted

Sometimes I imagine what if men didnt like sex also. I think the world would be great. Less cheating, less cases of STD, lower population, less human trafficking, less cases of rape, etc. What a grand world.

dreamingoftigers Established Member

dreamingoftigers

Posted
Posted
and twist it all again..... We are talking relationships where there are no other issues.... We have had endless posts from males claiming they do everything and then some and get none though their spouses like sex.....;):p:laugh:Let's take them at their word..... As I do the females who say they just are not interested anymore....

 

I don't know anyone, anyone of my female friends that has said to "do not like sex" if anything they do not like sex with their husbands. The reasons for this vary but it is often resent or lack of interest. Often they don't feel pursued. How many times have we seen on LS where the guy has done everything usually everything means threatening or banging heads with the wife or getting moody and temperamental?

 

Sorry dude, but from this side of the fence, it is a disconnect. What else could it be? We just one day "up and don't like it."

dreamingoftigers Established Member

dreamingoftigers

Posted
Posted
We are eating out tonight. I do sometimes regret marrying her though.

 

Wow that came out of left field. Everyone at some point regrets marrying their spouse. It is the long-term love you look for. Why do you regret marrying her?

PandorasBox Established Member

PandorasBox

Posted
Posted

"The reasons for this vary but it is often resent or lack of interest."

 

"It is a disconnect."

 

I totally agree with this. This very thing has been said many times before in threads about sexless marriages or lack there of. I would imagine it can be very hard for the other spouse to accept. Therefore they keep coming up with different things it could possibly be. When really the answer has been there all along.

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