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Fascinating Studdy of Sex amongst Sexless females.....

Toodamnpragmatic

By Toodamnpragmatic
in Marriage and Life Partnerships

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GorillaTheater Established Member

GorillaTheater

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Just curious TDP, why do you feel the mood should be lightened because the housework got done, and why do you expect a reward for doing it? Do you reward your wife when she does all the housework? I don't get it!

 

Generally speaking, it's called a "covert contract". Only one party is aware of its existence, and that party usually winds up frustrated and maybe a bit angry that the contract terms aren't being fulfilled.

soserious1 Established Member

soserious1

Posted
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Sorry are we back to saying the woman has to "get in the mood" and be prepared for sex? Or are we talking all the work the man has to do to get there?

 

I cook 4-6 X's/wk.... Maybe I should just microwave???

 

Maybe you should make up a chart spelling out exactly which sexual services you expect in exchange for the performance of household tasks, then your wife can pick & choose & she'll know what her bill is.

 

Alternatively, you could drop the childish idea that we get given cookies & rewards for taking responsibility for our children,homes & for doing the basic activities of daily living that keep us fed & dressed in clean clothing

 

I'd also suggest dropping the "oh but we have a good marriage" stuff TD, your resentment shines thru quite clearly here & I've no doubt your wife also picks up on it. Why not just an honest, straight forward sit down with a counselor ? Practice saying things like "I am very unhappy with our sexual life,unhappy enough to consider divorce if things don't change"

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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Generally speaking, it's called a "covert contract". Only one party is aware of its existence, and that party usually winds up frustrated and maybe a bit angry that the contract terms aren't being fulfilled.

 

So there's another good reason to keep the lines of communication open in a marriage. :eek:

 

If this applies to you TDP, does your wife know that you expect sexual favours as a reward for everything you do around the house?

 

There's little point in getting frustrated, angry or resentful if you've drawn up an invisible contract that she isn't aware of.

elaina Established Member

elaina

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When I was married, my exhusband and I had sex at least once every day, except when I was in my period or we were mad at each other, and then makeup sex was mind-blowing!!!

 

It's hard for me to understand the concept of only having sex once or twice a week when a couple is living together, except for in the case of having babies and young children. I do understand how that could make it difficult, and I can't say anything there, since I don't have any children. :(

 

That's an interesting study, by the way.

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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

Posted
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There are a multitude of lists us men read as to what to do to get our spouses in the mood.... Oh and yes it all starts between the ears.... Enough of this nattering bull....

 

A few weeks ago I commented on an NBC story about "Chore Play" and people gushing at how it worked...... I called them out and now see many posts deriding my so-called "childish" comments.......

 

I am posting in jest and saying that we have seen and been told that these gestures amount to nothing in the woo department.....

 

OBTW.... Soserious1 (missed you), I guess Giotto's 8 hour work day was lost upon you.....

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

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There are a multitude of lists us men read as to what to do to get our spouses in the mood.... Oh and yes it all starts between the ears.... Enough of this nattering bull....

 

A few weeks ago I commented on an NBC story about "Chore Play" and people gushing at how it worked...... I called them out and now see many posts deriding my so-called "childish" comments.......

 

I am posting in jest and saying that we have seen and been told that these gestures amount to nothing in the woo department.....

 

But "chore play" DOES work for lots of couples.

 

As a few of us said in the "chore play" thread, though....it is unlikely to make a difference if there are bigger unaddressed issues causing a woman to avoid closeness and intimacy.

Woggle Established Member

Woggle

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I was just joking in my post. I'm bored at work goofing off on LS.

 

That is awful that you sometimes feel that way, it makes me sad for both of you. It seems like negative threads like this one bring those feelings out in you, not anything that is actually your wife's fault :(

 

Not all the time but reading some of these threads and seeing some things makes me want to never love a woman again.

soserious1 Established Member

soserious1

Posted
Posted
There are a multitude of lists us men read as to what to do to get our spouses in the mood.... Oh and yes it all starts between the ears.... Enough of this nattering bull....

 

A few weeks ago I commented on an NBC story about "Chore Play" and people gushing at how it worked...... I called them out and now see many posts deriding my so-called "childish" comments.......

 

I am posting in jest and saying that we have seen and been told that these gestures amount to nothing in the woo department.....

 

OBTW.... Soserious1 (missed you), I guess Giotto's 8 hour work day was lost upon you.....

 

No, Giotto's 8 hour work day wasn't lost on me, what seems to have been missing for you though is that his wife also was working and hadn't gotten home yet, I'm imaging she had at least an 8 hr day at her job & more than likely had her own gauntlet of chores to get thru later in the evening.

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

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TDP, what I take from this study, and your wife as it relates to this study, is this:

 

There is something wrong if a woman loses her sex drive mid-marriage. It isn't normal, it isn't inevitable, and it isn't necessarily unfixable.

 

But you have to find the right solution for the right problem.

 

The placebo effect worked on about 1/3 of women...but it wasn't JUST a placebo effect. There was also a behavioral component to the study (in addition to swallowing the placebo) of agreeing to have sex 2x a week. Just getting in the practice of having sex twice a week--and getting accustomed to regular intimacy, regular touch, etc, could cause the changes that were seen in the placebo group. For a lot of women, the more you have it, the more you want it. And vice versa.

 

For 2/3 of women, however, having regular sex (and downing the placebo), did not result in higher libido. So, obviously, that wasn't the solution for them. Their husbands could very well get together on a message board and say, "See? It did nothing! It doesn't work!" But that doesn't change that it DID work for 30+%.

 

You have tried "chore play", giving gifts, and a lot of other things--to no avail. Then you conclude that it is all bunk--it doesn't work. No, it doesn't work for YOUR wife.

 

So what haven't you tried? Have you tried counseling? Have you tried getting to the bottom of the issues between you through painful honesty?

giotto Established Member

giotto

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Careful reading of Giotto's post shows that while he was busy doing all of this his wife was at work, not lying on her arse eating chocolates.

 

my wife went to work at 12.30 and she was in bed until 11.30am, whilst I got up at 7.00 doing all that. I don't mind... having said that, I would have liked to go to bed at 9pm to read a book, but I couldn't... because I had to wait up to cook her meal from scratch (she only eats certain things...)

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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my wife went to work at 12.30 and she was in bed until 11.30am, whilst I got up at 7.00 doing all that. I don't mind... having said that, I would have liked to go to bed at 9pm to read a book, but I couldn't... because I had to wait up to cook her meal from scratch (she only eats certain things...)

 

I'm confused! :confused:

 

Who/what says you had to wait up?

 

You say you don't mind, but the implication here is that actually, given the choice, you would like things to be different.

giotto Established Member

giotto

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more than likely had her own gauntlet of chores to get thru later in the evening.

 

more than unlikely... :D everything was done. Kitchen tidied up and dishwasher loaded (my favourite appliance ever, well after my PC... :D). She sat down, ate her meal and watched TV with a cup of tea. My daughter (well, one of them... :) had some friends staying the night, so my youngest sleeps in our bed on those occasions. I had to sleep in my office, on a camping bed... I went to bed at 10pm... I can assure you that sex was the last thing on my mind... :D

 

It might sound that I'm just saying how great I am, but I'm not. It's always been like this in our marriage, and even more after she started working shifts. I work from home, so I'm in charge most of the times. And I do things without resenting them, unless it starts interfering with my ability to make money and support the family.

giotto Established Member

giotto

Posted
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I'm confused! :confused:

 

Who/what says you had to wait up?

 

You say you don't mind, but the implication here is that actually, given the choice, you would like things to be different.

 

no, she is my wife and I appreciate what she does and she works hard. So it's a pleasure for me to stay up and cook her a nice meal, even if I'd like to be in bed instead... that's what it means being married, doesn't it? Otherwise I would get a chef... :D

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

Posted
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no, she is my wife and I appreciate what she does and she works hard. So it's a pleasure for me to stay up and cook her a nice meal, even if I'd like to be in bed instead... that's what it means being married, doesn't it? Otherwise I would get a chef... :D

 

Of course, wanting to do things for one another is part of being married BUT you used the words 'I had to......'. You didn't have to, you chose to. If I was talking to my partner and he said those words to me, I would want to discuss it because, to me, it suggests underlying resentment.

 

The subconscious mind has a lot more going on than you (or TDP) are giving it credit for.

 

What I read from your posts is that both you and your wife work hard but you do the lions share of the housework. You obviously love your wife a great deal and you want to make her happy - all credit to you for that.

 

Is she making you happy in equal measure? If not (eg not enough sex) there will be some 'resentment' somewhere because that's how human brains work.

 

We have to feel that a partnership is equal to be truly happy with the status quo.

giotto Established Member

giotto

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Of course, wanting to do things for one another is part of being married BUT you used the words 'I had to......'. You didn't have to, you chose to. If I was talking to my partner and he said those words to me, I would want to discuss it because, to me, it suggests underlying resentment.

 

The subconscious mind has a lot more going on than you (or TDP) are giving it credit for.

 

What I read from your posts is that both you and your wife work hard but you do the lions share of the housework. You obviously love your wife a great deal and you want to make her happy - all credit to you for that.

 

Is she making you happy in equal measure? If not (eg not enough sex) there will be some 'resentment' somewhere because that's how human brains work.

 

We have to feel that a partnership is equal to be truly happy with the status quo.

 

sorry, I think I used the wrong words... English is not my first language... :D

I said "had" because that evening I was very tired and wanted to go to bed. Usually I do it with pleasure. But it had been a heavy day...

 

It's not true I do the lion's share chore-wise. She does most of the cleaning and the laundry on her days off (she works 4 days/week, against my, erm, 7 days/week... :)). The only things I do all the time is cooking for everybody, getting up on the morning to deal with the kids, walking the dog (lol), bills, anything to do with the cars and I do most of the shopping. It's not a lot. It's just I've been working flat out on top of that in the last few years.

 

Resentment about my share of the chores? No, not really. Always done it! My resentment used to be about sex, but not anymore. I know the reasons now and I've accepted it. It's still frustrating and it has ruined our relationship on the intimacy level, but I still have a choice: I can go.

 

I'm going through a massive mid-life crisis, anyway... :D

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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sorry, I think I used the wrong words... English is not my first language... :D

I said "had" because that evening I was very tired and wanted to go to bed. Usually I do it with pleasure. But it had been a heavy day...

 

It's not true I do the lion's share chore-wise. She does most of the cleaning and the laundry on her days off (she works 4 days/week, against my, erm, 7 days/week... :)). The only things I do all the time is cooking for everybody, getting up on the morning to deal with the kids, walking the dog (lol), bills, anything to do with the cars and I do most of the shopping. It's not a lot. It's just I've been working flat out on top of that in the last few years.

 

Resentment about my share of the chores? No, not really. Always done it! My resentment used to be about sex, but not anymore. I know the reasons now and I've accepted it. It's still frustrating and it has ruined our relationship on the intimacy level, but I still have a choice: I can go.

 

I'm going through a massive mid-life crisis, anyway... :D

 

Ah, my apologies, your English is perfect so I never guessed.

 

If you're happy and have accepted things as they are then good for you.

 

Good luck with that MLC and don't do anything you'll regret. :D

giotto Established Member

giotto

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Ah, my apologies, your English is perfect so I never guessed.

 

I think most people know I'm Italian on LS, but I've been living in England for such long time that even a donkey would learn the lingo... :D

 

If you're happy and have accepted things as they are then good for you.

 

I've accepted them, but I wouldn't say I'm happy. It's not bad, but the connection and the intimacy have gone. Although things are better, I'm not allowing my wife to get too close because I don't want to get hurt again. Sad, but true.

 

Good luck with that MLC and don't do anything you'll regret. :D

 

Don't worry... I haven't bought my Harley yet... :D

LittleTiger Established Member

LittleTiger

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I've accepted them, but I wouldn't say I'm happy. It's not bad, but the connection and the intimacy have gone. Although things are better, I'm not allowing my wife to get too close because I don't want to get hurt again. Sad, but true.

 

That is sad. You strike me as a man who values connection and intimacy so I'm very sorry for your situation.

 

Re the MLC - if buying a Harley is as 'bad' as it gets, then you're doing well. :D

giotto Established Member

giotto

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That is sad. You strike me as a man who values connection and intimacy so I'm very sorry for your situation.

 

Can't change the wife and she won't change herself...

 

Re the MLC - if buying a Harley is as 'bad' as it gets, then you're doing well. :D

 

My MLC is more about getting old than anything else... :D

PandorasBox Established Member

PandorasBox

Posted
Posted (edited)

"There's little point in getting frustrated, angry or resentful if you've drawn up an invisible contract that she isn't aware of".

 

I love that, and its true!

 

AND

 

"it is unlikely to make a difference if there are bigger unaddressed issues causing a woman to avoid closeness and intimacy".

 

Those both applied in my marriage. My husband was the type who thought the more he did (chore) wise or whatever, he thought payment should always be sex. Now, don't get me wrong, helping out around the house etc, is a wonderful thing. And yes it took some of the stress off of me so I didn't feel like I had it all to do on my own. However, for him it was never about the fact that maybe he should do some of these things because he wanted to or needed to, not because he felt he was going to get sex out of it. Of course, when he didn't get sex for doing the dishes or whatever he was really disappointed. And yes, it was told and showed how much he was appreciated for what he had done, but it wasn't always with sex. Sorry! And him acting like a big baby when he didn't get it sex too when he thought he should, well now that just made me feel closer and sexy towards him. :laugh: NOT.

 

The bottom part I quoted applied to me as well, because even though I tried to tell him how I appreciated the things he did around the house and helped me with, that wasn't all their was to the marriage. We did have deeper issues that needed to addressed. However, thats hard to do when he wouldn't even acknowledge we had any. In the back of his mind he knew we did, he just chose to not work on them with me. That turned me into having some resentments, so that killed the sex for me even more. He expected me to give him sex when he wanted it for payment of a chore, but yet he wasn't willing to meet me half way with getting some help for the other issues. I couldn't live like that. It wasn't fair to me, or the marriage as a whole.

Edited by PandorasBox
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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

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"There's little point in getting frustrated, angry or resentful if you've drawn up an invisible contract that she isn't aware of".

 

I love that, and its true!

 

AND

 

"it is unlikely to make a difference if there are bigger unaddressed issues causing a woman to avoid closeness and intimacy".

 

Those both applied in my marriage. My husband was the type who thought the more he did (chore) wise or whatever, he thought payment should always be sex. Now, don't get me wrong, helping out around the house etc, is a wonderful thing. And yes it took some of the stress off of me so I didn't feel like I had it all to do on my own. However, for him it was never about the fact that maybe he should do some of these things because he wanted to or needed to, not because he felt he was going to get sex out of it. Of course, when he didn't get sex for doing the dishes or whatever he was really disappointed. And yes, it was told and showed how much he was appreciated for what he had done, but it wasn't always with sex. Sorry! And him acting like a big baby when he didn't get it sex too when he thought he should, well now that just made me feel closer and sexy towards him. :laugh: NOT.

 

The bottom part I quoted applied to me as well, because even though I tried to tell him how I appreciated the things he did around the house and helped me with, that wasn't all their was to the marriage. We did have deeper issues that needed to addressed. However, thats hard to do when he wouldn't even acknowledge we had any. In the back of his mind he knew we did, he just chose to not work on them with me. That turned me into having some resentments, so that killed the sex for me even more. He expected me to give him sex when he wanted it for payment of a chore, but yet he wasn't willing to meet me half way with getting some help for the other issues. I couldn't live like that. It wasn't fair to me, or the marriage as a whole.

 

But I always love the bolded quote.... Be honest is that We had deeper issues or HE had deeper issues????

xxoo Established Member

xxoo

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But I always love the bolded quote.... Be honest is that We had deeper issues or HE had deeper issues????

 

She said "we". Are you suggesting they were just his issues?

 

We did have deeper issues that needed to addressed. However, thats hard to do when he wouldn't even acknowledge we had any. .

 

The more I think about this study, the more it frustrates me that it was reported as demonstrating a placebo effect. I've only read the article TDP quoted, but from what I'm reading it does NOT demonstrate a placebo effect, because both groups had the behavioral component of prescribed sex 2x a week. In order to show placebo effect, there would need to be a third group with prescribed sex alone (no placebo, no drug). But maybe they address this in the study, which I've not read. It wouldn't surprise me if the media just misinterpreted the results, though. Happens all the time.

PandorasBox Established Member

PandorasBox

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But I always love the bolded quote.... Be honest is that We had deeper issues or HE had deeper issues????

 

What? What are you not getting? My response was about MY situation and what happened in MY marriage. I never said HE, I said WE. WE both had issues we needed to work on. But if one is willing to work on them and at least try and put forth some effort, and the other is not (Which in my case it was HIM) OOPS my bad sorry it happened to be HE he wouldn't try. So yeah there is the HE part, YOU were looking for. :rolleyes: It can go both ways too. Let's say a man is working on what he needs to, but the wife is not. How is that any different? Its not. Its just you like to call women out on whatever sticks out in your mind the most that might be implying a man isn't doing his part. Well, guess what SOMETIMES they DON'T. And SOMETIMES women don't! I bet had I said it was ME with ALL the issues and didn't try, you might have liked it better. But because in my case it was HE, oh my! Sheesh!

BruceLeroy Member

BruceLeroy

Posted
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I got a bit of insite on this when my ma and sis were talking and thinking I was too into my Halo time to hear. It was kinda weird being that it was my sis, but I'm going to keep it in my pocket for later if I get married.

 

She was complaining that after having been with her man a while, he stopped being sweet just cuz. Now hes only sweet to get sexed. No priming the pump so to speak. So he want to run rough shod on her before she gets hot for it and it end up hurting. Girl bits must be more sensitive than guy junk. But hey, gotta make sure she has a good time or the good time train stops chugging.

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Toodamnpragmatic Established Member

Toodamnpragmatic

Posted
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What? What are you not getting? My response was about MY situation and what happened in MY marriage. I never said HE, I said WE. WE both had issues we needed to work on. But if one is willing to work on them and at least try and put forth some effort, and the other is not (Which in my case it was HIM) OOPS my bad sorry it happened to be HE he wouldn't try. So yeah there is the HE part, YOU were looking for. :rolleyes: It can go both ways too. Let's say a man is working on what he needs to, but the wife is not. How is that any different? Its not. Its just you like to call women out on whatever sticks out in your mind the most that might be implying a man isn't doing his part. Well, guess what SOMETIMES they DON'T. And SOMETIMES women don't! I bet had I said it was ME with ALL the issues and didn't try, you might have liked it better. But because in my case it was HE, oh my! Sheesh!

 

What I was trying to say or focus on was that yes there were issues, and yes both sides needed to work on and that yes no one is 100% correct.... The difference and remember it is only being looked at in the context of sex... For him, all the issues did not affect him wanting to have sex with you, and I hope in a loving way. For you the issues in the marriage made you resent (or not want) sex with him..... Am I missing something?

 

 

I am not saying you were not right or that these issues may have been very real or obvious and was not a negative to you.

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