JenniferNJ Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 My husband of 5 years is awesome - when he's in total husband/family mode. But then every couple of months he has this need to go out with his friends. Inevitably meets a woman, and starts this bizarre friendship with her. He talks to her all the time, but makes sure that I don't know about it. They talk about being together, him leaving me (who's a total bitch and probably a scumbag, if I'm even alive in the story), but never actually do anything physical. He gets off on having that new crush feeling and having a girl that believes his ridiculous lies. Eventually I find out and confront him. He denies everything until I show him phone records. He makes up bizarre and wholy untrue stories about the girl (one was a pregnant lesbian) and continues the "relationship" until I'm finally fed up and contact the girl. Once they learn the truth, they yell at him and remove themselves from my life. He thus returns to normal until he goes out with friends again. This time though, I seem to have caught it too late. When I mentioned it, expecting the same pattern, he said screw this I'm leaving. He left, but immediately started about getting back together. Some time apart, blah blah blah. Turns out, most recent girl dated one of my good friends. She's acquaintances with both my best friend and the maid of honor from our wedding. They confronted her, making sure she knew the truth about our situation. She's in complete denial. Thinks everything he told her is true and that every single person who tells her about me doesn't know the "real situation." She's willing to wait to have a real relationship with him once he signs the divorce papers. She wants to save my children from me though, so she may have to do something before then. It's a fantastic situation. She's starting to become dangerous (at least in my mind) so when he wouldn't end the "friendship," I made an appointment with a lawyer. He freaked the hell out. Just horrendously nasty, appalled that I would try to divorce him. I "no longer deserve his politeness" and he's become emotionally abusive to the point that I'm kind of scared of him. Like today - we peacefully worked out some details of who gets what. He then invited me to go to the bar with him. I declined (cause, you know, someone has to watch the kids). He then propositioned me for sex. I also declined (because well, he's being a nasty ****). He then accused me of having replaced him already. I ignored this. He told me to have fun tonight. I replied "you too." I cooked the kids dinner. Then checked my phone. He said "you really did replace me?" and when I attempted to reply found he had shut off my phone. I called both his phone and his mothers (where he is staying) and no one answered. I packed up the kids, went to his moms house. He was like - hey what's up. I explained that he told me yesterday that he would leave my phone alone until he gave me the money he owes in back support so I could get my own plan. He tells me he's not going to pay for me to talk to other guys. I then explain that there are no other guys (jesus he left me 2 weeks ago) and that if something were to happen to the kids, I wouldn't be able to get help. He promptly turns my phone one, telling me that next time I'll get back to him right away when he calls or texts me. I attempt to leave before things get ugly. He comes out to the car and starts bitching that the carseat isn't tight enough. Then goes on to say that I did this, this is all my fault. I called a lawyer so I get what I deserve. I get home and find out I can't get my own plan unless he allows me to take my phone off his. I ask him and he tells me he'll think about it - maybe if I pay the cancellation fee and half the bill (with the money he hasn't given me?). Or I can just give him my phone. Finally I just give up and tell him I'll go to a new carrier and don't care what he does with my current one. Then he agrees to tell them it's okay tomorrow only if I give him a few more things he wants from the storage unit. I agree because I would have given them to him anyway if he had just asked like a normal person. He then goes on to say that now I know what it feels like to have someone say something untrue about me and have the one person supposed to believe me not. Apparently, this was all supposed to be a lesson on how I should have believed nothing was going on with this new girl and shouldn't have called a lawyer. I seriously think he's crazy. So yeah, I'm done. I was done before this fiasco tonight, but now I'm scared done. Like told my parents every word as he said them just to make sure I wasn't crazy and it was really happening done. Sorry this is so extremely long. I think I kind of needed to just get it all out. I was stupid to put up with the crap for so long, but now I'm just amazed that I never realized he was this insane. I've never been scared for myself or the kids before when it comes to him, so I'm finding it impossibly hard to even think straight. I'm hoping the lawyer can help me to avoid any more confrontation, but I would love anyone elses ideas and opinions as well.
The-Zen-Warrior Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) Forgive me here for being so bold, but I think your "soon to be ex-Husband" is kind of off his rocker! Also forgive me here for asking but does this man, who you are about ready to call it quits with, does he have any type of diagnosed mental problems? For any sane man wouldn't have behaved like this. The constant need or propensity to have these "secret crushes" and "secret flings on the side" or seek the affection and or deep relations with other women, all the while having a Mrs. at home, doesn't sound like a stable thinking person! There might be a name for this sort of thing....oh yes the term compulsive delusional rings a bell. Also his constant need to lie to you, mind you when the pure and factual truth is right in front of him, still he lies! This leads me to believe that as far as his mental state, he might suffer from whats known as being a pathological lier! Also, when you drew the line in the sand, and you told yourself "no more" and you started walking the walk and not just talk the talk, he freaks out! When he sees you womaning up and saying "enough is enough", like you making that appointment with the attorney, he freaks out! He learned real hard and real fast his life is about to change, he also became very aware that his controlling you, through lies and games was coming to an end, he didn't like this and became agitated with you. In some psychological texts this might be know as a person who is a habitual controller! The man is also willing to play games and "roll the dice" on his family. The man is willing to put it all on the line, for the sake of having a womans, who is not his wife, affection and favor! He gets off living some sort of twisted "double life" and acts if he in some sort of James Bond 007 guy! He wants the females attention, he craves the females attention, kind of odd if you ask me. Also note here, he just isn't playing and rolling the dice with you or your kids, I hate to bring this into the mix, but what about the "other woman", the one who's waiting for the ink on the divorce papers to dry. Has he thought about the games he is playing with the other woman as well? He's not only playing "Russian Roulette" with you or your kids, he is playing it with the other woman as well! I think some self help book I have read have a name for this, I thinks it's called being a sociopath and maybe a little twist of being a bit psychotic as well. Also, the bit about him cutting you off from your phone, by calling the phone company and having it turned off, that part was way 'un-cool"! This guy must have a lack of common sense problem. Even though I did not like the fact, that my ex-wife, for about the last year of our marriage, talked to two different men, one of them she choose over me, but even with that I would not have turned her phone off, I didn't, the phone was in my name only, I kept her phone alive up to the moment we signed the divorce papers. I knew that she got to have my Son 50% of the time, while he was with her she needed a phone for in case something happened to our boy, she could call for help. But your guy, talk about being three sheets to the wind in the smarts department. All on the premise that you might have been talking to other men, or at least as he says "his replacement", I think there is a term for this one, it's called being a paranoid delusional! Well I think I've sighted enough things that might make one think the man is a couple fries shy of a happy meal. My suggestion to you is to keep strong here! Keep that "line in the sand" always drawn out, that is your boundary point, I wouldn't let him cross it. If you feel that "enough is enough" than by all means "get out"! Keep in touch with the attorney, keep he/she in the loop. Perhaps in between now and the ink on the divorce papers is dry, maybe if you feel like he indeed is a bit crazy and you are indeed in fear, maybe you should talk to the attorney and discuss an order of protection and or a restraining order, what ever your state likes to call it, but look into one of those, if you feel so inclined to. Stay strong, stay focused and keep your kids close...........you will get through this! Edited September 22, 2010 by The-Zen-Warrior Spelled a couple words wrong....
Author JenniferNJ Posted September 22, 2010 Author Posted September 22, 2010 Thank you Zen Warrior. Throughout our marriage, I had always figured his need to have these shady women friends was some sort of juvenile acting out. Other than the disrespect I felt while it was going on, he was always so nice and caring and sensitive that I never thought there was a huge problem. Since he left me, he's been bouncing from one extreme emotion to the next. He blames me for leaving me. He blames me for not trying to work it out, even though he told me he was only being nice to me so I didn't use the kids against him. He blames me for calling an attorney when he didn't get rid of the women. Somehow, my trying to save my marriage, then just protect myself and my kids is unacceptable. No matter what move I make, it seems to only push him further. Thinking back, I've seen him act this way to other people. I guess I always assumed I was exempt. That he cared about me and the kids, so he would never treat us the way he treated the others. Of course, he claims the others deserved it and having never known their side of things, I had believed that as well. I know I don't deserve this and my poor children are innocent in this entire thing. At this point, I have extreme fear of this escalating into something violent or dangerous. Can't eat, can't sleep, can't concentrate, always worried what's coming next. Around midnight, after all the other stuff, I got a text message from him. I was terrified to even open it and see what I had to deal with next. He had texted me to tell me about a new tequila he's tried at the bar. What? He has delusions that we're still best friends. I responded as if I cared because I know that if he thinks I'm not willing to be friends he lashes out. It seemed to have appeased him because I haven't heard back. He doesn't seem to realize that when he does all this crazy lashing out, it actually makes it easier to stay on track with the lawyer and the divorce. I think he believes he can scare me into waiting for him to come back. It is actually hard to focus on getting out when he is being nice, because it gives me hope that someday he could be that guy I married and not whatever this is he's become. I know it's stupid. I know that I should leave no matter how he behaves at this point. I can't hold on to the man I loved because he just isn't there anymore. He has always refused to see any type of psychologist or counselor. He calls them quacks and says he refuses to pay someone to judge him. He wouldn't go to marriage counseling because "they always blame the husband." He had said that the counseling had worked for a few of his friends, but that was because the men were actually in the wrong. Since he hasn't done anything wrong, it won't work for us.
The-Zen-Warrior Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 (edited) JenniferNJ : You know something Jen, and please don't take this the wrong way, but your whole post scares me! I hope that you were listening to yourself when you wrote this return post. I hope as you were typing the words on your keyboard, you were acknowledging the meaning of them at the same time. Here I will kind of just graze some of the things you said, that make me uncomfortable with your situation.... These are your quotes..... Since he left me, he's been bouncing from one extreme emotion to the next. = Well for a person, who to some may appear to have the best of both world, a Mrs. at home and a shady swarthy woman on the side, why have so many extreme emotion? Since he left you, he should be feeling better, he made his choice, he came clean, he is moving on, why the extreme emotions? He's got his "prize" right now, he should be happy, he should be mellow, he should be relaxed in the idea that he got his way. he told me he was only being nice to me so I didn't use the kids against him. = Do you know how sick of a statement this was from your "soon to be ex-Husband"? These words of his come from a very dark place. These words of his were born from a deep dark twisted place in his head, namely a place linked with his "tactical center" of his mind. He played a game of chess here, he decided to move his chess piece on the board to a place of "being nice to you", then he was thinking a couples moves ahead by thinking, if I'm nice to her she won't use the kids against me.........think about this! He blames me for calling an attorney when he didn't get rid of the women. = Talk about a person who will not accept responsibility for their part of this situation. Talk about a person who appears to have a very hard time putting "2 & 2" together. If I was him, thank gosh I'm not, but if I was, I would have to acknowledge my part in all this because I knew that I had brought it on myself by not giving up the "other woman"! And now he "blames" you for something that in all reality that he brought upon himself! I don't know.....he's kind of coming up short in smarts department. Thinking back, I've seen him act this way to other people. = You know something Jen, I'm not surprised here at all. I knew this wasn't his first rodeo here. But ask yourself the question, you've seen him act this way before with other people, do you still want to remain in his life for you to see him do this sort of stuff with more people? You know Jen, the man is not going to change on his own, you know this right? If he didn't learn the first time that what he was doing was wrong, and he kept going and going and going and doing this to other people, what makes you think that he is going to put the brakes on here and stop? I guess I always assumed I was exempt. = From what, do you really in all reality think that your "soon to be ex-Husband" is keeping you exempt from anything here? I don't think so! Yeah, he might not be playing some of the games that he plays with others on you. But a "game" is a "game" isn't it? He is bring you heartache, turmoil, fear, stress, worry, doubt, frustrations, headache, sleepless nights, fear of answering you texts, the list could go on. Does this sound like a guy who is keeping you exempt from anything.............NO! That he cared about me and the kids = I hate to sight this example as being "crasp" but this is a joke! This is a deep dark and twisted joke that your 'soon to be ex-Husband" is laughing at. By him just being with this "other woman" he is virtually laughing in your kids face and your face as well. This man apparently doesn't realize that his actions could in the end mess with the most "innocent" part of this situation, that being the kids. At this point, I have extreme fear of this escalating into something violent or dangerous. = Than what is there to complain about? what is there to worry about? If you truly feel this way than keep it going, head to divorce court and escape a potentially violent and dangerous person. If your that concerned about this, talk to your attorney and start on submitting a order of protection and or a restraining order for both your home, your place of work, yourself and the kids. Contact some women support places out there like W.E.A.V.E. and so forth, seek their opinion and act upon their advise. It is actually hard to focus on getting out when he is being nice = Don't be naive here Jen, his so called "being nice" to you is all part of his twisted game. Do you know this time old saying Jen, "keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer"? I would think long and hard on that times old saying. He's just buying time, he knows enough to not want to completely burn his bridge with you. He needs to keep you, the "back up plan", he needs something to fall back on when his little games with the ladies falls through. He needs a "fall back position" if things with this "other woman", the one who is waiting for the ink to dry on your divorce papers, if things don't work out with her, he will be back on your door step shortly there after. He has always refused to see any type of psychologist or counselor = This might be the "grand daddy" of all you said, except for the kids thing. Do you really think this man wants help? This scares me a bit, for he apparently has a multitude of issues, both personal and emotion and mental, but will not seek help for his problems. To me by him thinking that , than it's "over" it's "done", "do not pass go, do not collect $200" it's gone! He will refuse to get professional help till the cows come home. This is the type of help, I feel, that your marriage needs right now. I know you would be willing to play ball and go and try to get help, but what about him? It takes "two to dance", if he is unwilling and or refuses this type of help, it's over! Well I feel that is about all the quotes that I need to sight as examples to why I'm kind of worried for you. Just stay strong, if you have to re-read my post every now and again. Keep strong for your kids, keep you kids safe and keep talking to the attorney, start talking to some female support groups out there, who deal with Husband & Wife domestic problems. You will get through this, but please do yourself the favor and don't deceive yourself, the man isn't going to change on his own. Nor is the man going to change when threatened with divorce, his current actions are your answer. Nor is he willing to get professional help to change.......the bottom line he is not going to change! Good luck.... Edited September 22, 2010 by The-Zen-Warrior
Author JenniferNJ Posted September 22, 2010 Author Posted September 22, 2010 Wow, thanks again Zen Warrior. I think I'm in a place where I'm feeling and writing these things, but not actually acknowledging the importance behind them. For so many years of keeping all of this to myself and not allowing those around me to know my issues, everything seems to be flooding out at rapid speed now. Today was a confusing mess - but so far everyday pretty much has been. He texted me to continue talking about the tequila. I was nice and then asked him about my phone. He said we could go to the store and get it worked out together. I declined as the children were napping. He them proposes we have sex, which I also decline. About a half hour later he shows up at my house. He's come to apologize for yesterday. It won't happen again. He's all hugs and sweetness, but something feels off. He tries for sex. I again decline. We attempt to talk about some of the more pressing financial issues, but he diverts to our visitation schedule. He tells me he doesn't know when he can take the kids overnight. I say okay. He tells me I have to stop pressuring him to take them overnight. I don't remember doing this but I again say okay. He then says he will take them overnight next weekend. I ask where would they stay. He gets pissed telling me that he doesn't have to tell me where he takes them. I disagree. He tells me until the divorce papers are signed he has the legal right to take them anywhere he pleases. I say that I don't know if that's true, but fine. He then tells me the name of the hotel he plans on taking them to. I say that's fine. He then gets pissed about things unknown and storms out. I call him to ask him if we're could please finish what we were discussing. He tells me he has a lawyer now and we are not to discuss anything except through him. I ask that he be reasonable and at least discuss what he plans to do until the lawyers figure things out. He comes back to the house. He tells me all the things the lawyer supposedly told him. I say supposedly because the advice sounded much like what his friends at work would have told him. Don't give me any money for me or the kids. Cut me off from anything he still pays for. Basically, do whatever you want, **** me over and I'll just have to bend over and take it because I'm unemployed and therefore suck. I continue to stick by my current attitude of "I can't force you to do anything, you'll do what you have to do." If I've learned one thing in recent days it's that fighting him is just more painful than it's worth. And that he has a tendency to give me more things if I just don't fight. At this point, without a legal document forcing him, I'm pretty much at his mercy financially. Now that I seem to be seeing things his way, he's all nice again. He wants to pay for preschool. He wants to give me money, just not as much as we agreed upon. Only because he can't afford it. He'll give me more money when he works overtime. I say this would be nice, because honestly what the hell else am I going to do? The kids get up and I go to get them lunch. While gone, he goes through my computer. He finds messages to old friends about the situation and has the nerve to finish reading them and then ask me about them. I let it go. Huge overstep of bounds, yes, but there was nothing in them I hadn't told him to his face before. He starts with the other woman. Still claiming no wrong-doing, he says that things seem to gotten a little out of control. Really? He claims that they talked about it both agree they don't want each other. They really are just friends. She's just a cool girl to go out and drink with. Yup. Sure. I don't say much of anything because I was pretty sure we were past the whole reason behind the break up and trying to work out pre-divorce stuff. We go to the store and get our phone plans separated without incident. We return home and he asks me to write up an new agreement. I say that I will, but don't see the point since I am no longer signing anything, especially not something he may use in the future. I haven't agreed to his terms, but have agreed to stop fighting about them. He says he just wants a list of what he's agreed to and no one has to sign it. I still haven't done it yet. After he leaves he tells me that he is pretty sure about wanting a divorce. He believes that yes, we fight more now, but we are also paying each other more attention and having better sex. {I fully admit to sleeping with him. I'm an idiot, but I make no real excuses beyond that} I try a new tact. I say we should do mediation. If he wants to keep ironing out details, we should just do it with a professional and be done with it. If he wants to focus on our relationship, that should be done without these other things involved. And further, that once we have everything separated, we should keep them that way no matter the outcome of our relationship. If 2 months or 10 years from now we decide we've changed and decide we've made a huge mistake, everything being separate is most likely for the best. He agrees to the mediation. He'd like to avoid a huge costly legal battle. He realizes we have to pretty much spend the rest of our lives in contact with one another and wants us to not hate each other forever because of the fighting about this stuff now. He then mentions we have 18 months before we can actually file for divorce and that even if we do divorce, we can remarry for only $30. Why spend the money to fight now when there is a chance of things working out in the end? I'm baffled by the entire day. At least he no longer has control of my phone. The whole "our relationship" thing is destined to be a time bomb that'll detonate later tonight when he calls to talk about it. If nothing else, while I still don't get anything he does whatsoever, I have at least been able to start acknowledging and accepting how I contributed to the downfall of my marriage. I most likely should have paid him more attention. I was never mean or cold, but I wasn't making any effort either. I used my children as an excuse as to why I had no time nor motivation, when in reality that wasn't actually the case. I also should have trusted him more. Not because he earned it, but because many of the fights we had were over things that were later proven to be false. I was very much on my high-horse of you are shady, therefore I must snoop in every aspect of your life. Much of what I would find would be out of context or with no context at all. So sure was I that every single thing he did was a slight against me, that I would use this "information" against him without even knowing what it was. This isn't to say I take the blame for what happened, or even half of it, but I can at least admit that I wasn't the world's most perfect wife betrayed by the utter scumbag. Perhaps I'll be able to use this knowledge in a new, happier relationship sometime in the very very distant future.
The-Zen-Warrior Posted September 23, 2010 Posted September 23, 2010 (edited) JenniferNJ : Please don't take this the wrong way, but as far as me injecting anymore information about your current situation.........I think I'm done! I am only going to be brief, seeing writing out a "book" for you here didn't seem to help clear the air. I understand you may be a tad bit confused here, your still full of that worry and doubt, you may claim to be stuck in the middle, ect. ect. ect. But to me there seems to be a sure bit of "hemming and hawing" in your post. Your blaming him, your blaming yourself, your blaming him, your blaming yourself..ect. ect. ect. You bring him in, talk, have sex or what not, he leaves or you kick him out, he comes back, talk, have sex or what not......vicious little pattern we got going on here! He claims to have "broken it off" with the "other woman", she will just be my little piece of a** on the side! All the while coming into your house, talking, having sex, fighting, ect. ect. ect. Only you know the truth here! Only you, controlling your part in this situation can either put a stop to it, or just let it ride and in your own words just keep taking it up the a**! If you choose to stay, fine....best of luck to you! As my favorite talk show host would say, that being Steve Wilkos, he likes to say to people who decide to stay in something bad............"good luck with that"! Or if you choose to go, more power to you, I would highly advise it, but who am I to tell you what to do. Either way, and I hate to be so bold, but in the immortal words of my dead Grandfather............either which way you go..................."either sh*t or get off the pot"! Good luck............. Maybe some other forum members could step in and chime in about this situation! I would be most thankful if they would. Edited September 23, 2010 by The-Zen-Warrior Spelled A Word Wrong....
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