I'm marrying Fingercuffs

[BruceLeroy]

Me: male. Her: female. Each of us: mid-thirties, couple kids, educated, relatively successful. This will be the second marriage for us both.

 

We're getting married in a couple months, but I've got some things I need to deal with, and I'm hoping the aggregate wisdom of LS can help me out.

 

Please note that I didn't pry or dig into her past, I was happy to leave it where it lay, but she went and volunteered some information that has, unfortunately, managed to snake it's way deep into my brain.

 

Due to marrying young the first time, I've had a very limited number of sexual partners, let's call it 5.

 

She let slip that she has shagged at least 20 men, the vast majority of them within the 2 years preceding our relationship. Popular culture says I should assume 2-3x the number she told me, which would mean she was banging at least a couple new guys every month for 2 years.

 

Anyway, after she separated from her first husband, she decided to sow some oats, so to speak. She dated a guy that was involved in the swinger community, and they went to sex clubs, swapped partners, group sex, orgies, she had sex with like 6 guys in just a couple hour period, jesus christ, I could go on and on.

 

She had a clean STD panel, but frankly, that's little consolation for me.

 

She felt that since we were very serious, I should know the truth and accept her, warts and all.

 

When we first started dating, she was still very close friends with one of the guys she was swinging with, but kept me in the dark about it all until he proved to be a total douche and she ejected him from her life. (BS confrontation about how I was supposedly controlling because I didn't want to swing with her and him, gross.)

 

Sometimes I get these stabs of jealousy about what she did, and I think it's entirely irrational, but goddamn it hurts. I get these images in my head (thanks, overactive imagination!) of her engaging in these acts with these people, and it makes me feel confused, angry, all kinds of terrible stuff.

 

We've talked about it a few times, and I try to stay calm and not get upset, but I really don't want to be that guy who keeps bringing this stuff up every time I feel a bit insecure.

 

I bought "The Ethical Slut", and I'm rereading the jealousy chapter, and it's helping, but I need some human interaction, and I don't want to talk to my friends about this.

 

TLDR; I'm involved in a very serious relationship with FingerCuffs from Chasing Amy. How do I deal with this?

 

Let me get this straight.

 

Your fiance did stuff YOU want to do and would absolutely do if the option and opportunity came your way, but now you're struggling to see her the way you did before knowing this stuff?

 

You see her differently now and are worried about marrying her.

But the stuff she did you would jump at.

But in the same breath, you claim you don't want to cheat?

[mansquito]

I'm starting to feel a little defensive that people are attacking me on here when I'm just being brutally honest about my feelings. I would appreciate a little decency, aren't we adults? Y'all can at least stop the schoolyard name-calling.

 

Try to ignore the nattering, invalidating a-holes: they're doing exactly the wrong thing to help you get over it.

 

Your feelings are your feelings, and nobody has the right to make you feel ashamed of them. They don't even have to be rational. Hell, the shame is probably why you feel so conflicted about it in the first place, and learning to accept your emotions for what they are is the first step to dealing with it. And your emotions are as equally valid as anybody else's.

 

I don't care if someone else would be totally comfortable with their new girlfriend bringing a former lover over to their house for a nice dinner without at least telling them about their status ahead of time. We're talking about me, and I obviously don't think that's respectful.

 

Now that we're on the topic of "that guy", here's some more fun facts.

 

She was still romantically involved with him the first month of our relationship, and he even had a key to her house when he came to mine for dinner. My fiancee had had threesomes and more with this guy and the girl he brought to dinner. None of which I knew about beforehand. After prompting her, she informed me that when the dinner was originally planned, she had been hoping for dinner to turn into more, but then she changed her mind the week before, and decided to keep me in the dark. Which obviously backfired.

 

I'd be pissed about this. It's way out of line, IMHO, and I bet there's more than one current or former swinger on here who would agree with me. Maybe she didn't technically lie to you about her status at the outset (betcha never asked her directly, did you?) but she certainly skirted around the edges of lying by omission. To continue the charade by setting you up in a situation where you were the only person in the room who didn't know what was going on (and in your own house??? WTF???) was beyond the pale.

 

I'd still be pissed about it, frankly. If you're still feeling some lingering sting over the incident, I suggest you bring it up to her respectfully, but even more importantly than respectfully - FULLY AND TOTALLY HONESTLY. This is about your feelings. Don't feel ashamed about not being as cosmopolitan a dude as you thought you were. You're going to marry this woman, and you have to be able to talk to her.

 

FWIW, you and I have similar backgrounds. I married young, though probably with a few more notches in my bedpost than you. After my divorce, I got a lot of stuff out of my system, before I met my fiancee, who's my age, but never married. Needless to say, our ratios are similar to yours, just of a larger magnitude. I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

[GorillaTheater]

Let me get this straight.

 

Your fiance did stuff YOU want to do and would absolutely do if the option and opportunity came your way, but now you're struggling to see her the way you did before knowing this stuff?

 

You see her differently now and are worried about marrying her.

But the stuff she did you would jump at.

But in the same breath, you claim you don't want to cheat?

 

Good first post, man. Pretty much encapsulates what I was thinking about this.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Try to ignore the nattering, invalidating a-holes: they're doing exactly the wrong thing to help you get over it.

 

Your feelings are your feelings, and nobody has the right to make you feel ashamed of them. They don't even have to be rational. Hell, the shame is probably why you feel so conflicted about it in the first place, and learning to accept your emotions for what they are is the first step to dealing with it. And your emotions are as equally valid as anybody else's.

 

 

 

I'd be pissed about this. It's way out of line, IMHO, and I bet there's more than one current or former swinger on here who would agree with me. Maybe she didn't technically lie to you about her status at the outset (betcha never asked her directly, did you?) but she certainly skirted around the edges of lying by omission. To continue the charade by setting you up in a situation where you were the only person in the room who didn't know what was going on (and in your own house??? WTF???) was beyond the pale.

 

I'd still be pissed about it, frankly. If you're still feeling some lingering sting over the incident, I suggest you bring it up to her respectfully, but even more importantly than respectfully - FULLY AND TOTALLY HONESTLY. This is about your feelings. Don't feel ashamed about not being as cosmopolitan a dude as you thought you were. You're going to marry this woman, and you have to be able to talk to her.

 

FWIW, you and I have similar backgrounds. I married young, though probably with a few more notches in my bedpost than you. After my divorce, I got a lot of stuff out of my system, before I met my fiancee, who's my age, but never married. Needless to say, our ratios are similar to yours, just of a larger magnitude. I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

 

because she was a swinger, who slept with too many men before you met her and then duped you into cooking a great meal for her lover (maybe ex, maybe not) and his girlfriend a night she was setting up for some swinging action, but chickened out and didn't tell you about, because she had developed deeper feelings for you (may be I'm reading between the lines) and you are mad now knowing that nothing happened, which may be you would have liked to have had happen, because you told her that you wanted to do this with her eventually if you are to marry (i.e. threesomes)......

 

Just trying to get this straight. It may help too if you let us all know exactly what you cooked for dinner that night, so we have the whole story.

[eamherst14051]

It's not out of her system, it's in her system!!!

 

RUN NOW !!!!!

[Sh0t]

I'm starting to feel a little defensive that people are attacking me on here when I'm just being brutally honest about my feelings.

 

Not surprising for this place. Honestly friend, if I were you, I would jump ship. Seen this scenario unfold quite a few times before, especially the feeling of sexual bait-and-switch. She does not really respect you, she's just looking for someone like you to reinforce her respectability persona, and she may very well cheat on you.

 

The feelings of jealousy you have will NOT go away. Nor will the bait and switch feelings. She will not make you happy in the long run, you will regret too much. For your happiness, you should run.

 

Fingercuffs is fun to marry if she works with you to fulfill your fantasies. But very often they are a very manipulative type of woman if they do not.

[BruceLeroy]

Good first post, man. Pretty much encapsulates what I was thinking about this.

 

Dude its bigger than that even. You don't call someone youre all about Fingercuffs and how he going to pin the blame on her for not getting his fantasy now when he couldn't get it before she came along?! Shes only a door he hoped to find his fantasy behind and given her the catch 22. She has to either be Fingercuffs forever or the dirty gone good chick standing in his way.

[Jack & Coke]

You guys really should ease up on threadstarter. His fiancee was deceptive as hell.

[abouttoloseit]

Hey Jealousyoverload, some people have really come down hard on you and I don't think that's too fair. But, you posted on the web what do you expect!?

 

Anyway, I'll give you my opinion as I have some* experience in what you're going through. However one difference between you and me is that Im not actually into or want a threesome. Never really have, used to fantasize about them when I was 16 but not really anymore. One's enough and she gets all my time and dedication! The reason I don't really want one goes along the lines of, I wouldn't really want to screw someone I didn't care about. And I'd have to NOT care about someone before I threesome's with them. If that makes sense? But I do care and that's my problem !

 

Lets dig in. I think you really need to think whether you really want a threesome, or do any of the stuff you wanted to with or without her. Does it mean so much that you do it or don't? If you really do, just get yourself down to a local swing club and jump in with, or without her.

 

If you want to do this with her, you have to play fair - meaning, you cant get jealous over her past if you yourself are about to indulge in such pleasures yourself be it girl boy girl, boy girl boy etc...

 

You are about to marry this girl. I predict - it won't last. I don't like saying stuff like this, but reading what you have said about her and your own self, this is NOT going to work. Are you sure you want to marry this girl? Seriously man, THINK.

 

My history -

 

I went out with a girl (you can find my thread somewhere on here about her past) who had ALOT of partners, she was only 23 and well above 30 guys. She had a threesome with two guys. This peice of information stung. But it was her "best friend ex" that actually made me dump her. And had spent time in hospital over other "mental health issues" later on...so...make your own mind up.

 

Now, these feelings of "inadequacy" are not going to go away. But you are not inadequate. You are far more. You're effing awesome. Those guys haven't got anything on you. She should be happy she's with you! I wouldn't really say inadequate to be honest. I don't think it's quite the word. But I know what you mean.

 

I often felt like just another notch on her bed post. As much as she protested I wasn't. Most guys have pride, it sounds like you do to. Those images that have "snaked" into your head won't go away, you don't like that she was sleeping with so many men that were not you. It's normal and called being a guy. Put it this way, if any man had no pride what so ever, there wouldn't be ANY competition. Guys would never get jealous, and screw everybody else's girlfriends. There would be no need for loyalty. Everything would just be mondane and everyone just screw each other. And perhaps this is the future? May be this would be ideal? But sounds boring. And mother nature has not felt it nesessary in the last 500,000 years to get rid of sexual competition.

 

Back on track -

 

So, she has switched her plan from threesomes to none. I want to quote somebody here:

 

"Seen this scenario unfold quite a few times before, especially the feeling of sexual bait-and-switch. She does not really respect you, she's just looking for someone like you to reinforce her respectability persona, and she may very well cheat on you."

 

A possible outcome. Though I don't think she is that calculating. But I think she may be trying to fix her respectability a bit here. Or may be she found love and doesn't want to share you. Whatever the hell love is nowadays.

 

"She was still romantically involved with him the first month of our relationship, and he even had a key to her house when he came to mine for dinner. My fiancee had had threesomes and more with this guy and the girl he brought to dinner. None of which I knew about beforehand. After prompting her, she informed me that when the dinner was originally planned, she had been hoping for dinner to turn into more, but then she changed her mind the week before, and decided to keep me in the dark. Which obviously backfired. "

 

 

Now this is just totally messed up. And again, goes back to what I was saying about pride. As a couple(which you are), what must be going through her head as she invites a guy she used to screw over to dinner, with a guy whom she is supposed to "be" with and making him feel like number one? And erm...don't buy the whole "we're just friends now". If all ex lovers were meant to be friends, and friends supposed to be lovers, hell what am I waiting for!? I have plenty of female friends! But it doesn't work that way does it. What may also be annoying is that she was still seeing this guy and was very friendly with him in front of you.

 

However, she may have been planning on helping you with your fantasy. Hoping to get you all "involved" but something happened which made her stop. Was it because she didn't want any more involvment with her ex lover? WOuld she be jealous if you had sex with the "other girl? Questions questions.

 

Either way, inviting a guy over that she used to screw around with without you knowing that they were once involved is some serious deciet. And you even cooked his food.

 

I think two things are happening. I think you may be a little jealous that she has done these things and you haven't. I don't blame you. I have been curious, but the opporunity has never arisen. I guess Im more annoyed that no one ever wanted to try one with me than the actual act itself .

 

But is it such a huge fantasy that you risk this particular relationship?

 

The second thing is, I think she is trying to fix her "image" and that she has fallen for you. But the only thing that baffles me is the deceit. Remember she is capabable. Perhaps she is calculating. I mean, she mst have at least thought of possible outcomes in this situation.

 

I understand that she cut contact with this other guy, but this just seems like too much work. And don't be surprised if this guys worms his way back into yours and hers life.

 

Please just really think what you want to do with this girl and your relationship. None of us here know your situation like you do.

 

I believe it should be just you and her. Nobody else in the relationship. No former loves, ex flings, ex f*cks etc...and then discuss the direction you want to go with her. Really think if you want a threesome/group, could you handle another guy touching her?

 

But as many guys will tell you, unfortunately, those images in your head as to what she has done with those guys, won't go away. You like her too much and can't bear the thought she has been with these men. I was like that too. And I wish there was some answer but there isn't. I mean some guys might be comfortable with it. May be you do need to have this threesome to be on her level. I don't know. I'd probably advise against it.

 

Everybody is "free" to do whatever they want, f*ck whoever they want. She was/is free to do whatever she wants as are you. Some on here will argue that she will be a commited, trusting partner, she has "been there done that" etc, and is ready to "settle". That's of course if you don't count the whole dinner deceit event.

 

Other's will argue past is usually a good indication of future. Sometimes its true. Trust your gut.

 

I'll end with this quote, which I think is great.

 

"The first time somebody calls you a horse, you punch them. The second time somebody calls you a horse, you call them a jerk. Then the third time somebody calls you a horse, maybe it's time you went shopping for a saddle."

 

Lucky number slevin.

[DonnyWhoLovedBowling]

Interesting thread.. and something I have some interest in since I'm kinda dealing with the same thing with my current gf. Couple thoughts..

 

I would be a lot more bothered with the way she handled the ex.. Inviting him to dinner without telling you about their past (which is not a run-of-the-mill "we dated for a little while" past) was incredibly disrespectful.

 

Some of the female replies in this thread (BlackLovely [sp?] in particular) are missing the point, to a certain extent anyway. There is a difference between men and women that are promiscuous sexually. Its a fact of our culture and biology - - huge generalization coming - - that women control the decision to have sex and men control the decision to settle down. When either one exercises that power indiscriminately, it is viewed as a character flaw. The "double standard" that you reference is a bit of a misnomer. It ignores the flip side of that coin (i.e., how women view men that would settle down with anyone). Noone wants to feel like they're not special because they're last in a long line. Promiscuity in sex or relationships can be a valid turn-off.

 

Someone dropped a funny but apropos line about this.. "A key that can open any lock is a good key. A lock that can be unlocked by any key is a bad lock." And it applies equally to men and women, albeit in for different things.

 

That said, noone's perfect. If you found someone that is amazing in most respects, you should consider whether you'd be happier with her as she is rather than looking for someone else that may not be the total package that she is. I think the fact that it bothers you is natural. But, consider whether ending it is something you really want.

 

I agree 100% with the guy that posted that it was disrespectful to call a woman that you love "fingercuffs." I can understand the emotion behind doing that (and its a solid movie reference), but its a good point. Whatever video is on repeat in your head, she is supposed to be someone you love. At least try to show her respect, even if its anonymous on the internet.

 

I hear what you're saying about the "bait-and-switch." Although, I think a conversation needs to be had about why she no longer wants to pursue things for which you had discussed a mutual interest. One of the women in this thread noted that her desire not to pursue might be natural because she could conceivably want to do things with someone she didn't care as much for.. and that seems to miss the point to me. The fact that she was willing to do anything with someone else and not with you is an issue, whether its sexual or not. You have to take some offense to that. The fact that its sexual just makes it that much more of an intimate issue. There's a discussion to be had there.

 

 

In any event. Good luck.