Is Ignorance Really Bliss?

[TigerCub]

"If he is cheating on me, but treats me well and I don't know there is anything wrong and I feel as much love from as I do now, then there's really no point in me worrying about it. If I'm happy, I'm happy".

 

WOW!! At least she's honest. I think there are some people out there that feel that way, but don't admit it.

 

I agree that how a person treats the other matters greatly. But I wouldn't be happy with my SO cheating on me.

If they're going to get their rocks off somewhere else - then we should at least discuss an open relationship - that way its honest at least.

 

I, like you, am a truth vigilante as you called it.

If I can't trust someone, I can't really be with them.

 

It was when I started judging my ex on how he treated me and not what he said, that the perspective train hit me hard.

For me, once exMM treated me badly, that was the end of it.

 

Thanks for the reply

[Ellin]

In a thread called The BS and AP are more different than you think

the initial post was describing how the W is happy and goes about things differently than the AP who's constantly stressing about her status with MM and how she doesn't get as much time as she likes, constantly worries about how she's going to look for MM, etc....

 

It got me thinking - is the W that's ignorant to her MM's affairs really that much better off?

 

Before that post I often wondered if my MM's baby momma was better off.

Sure, she didn't know that he cheated on her repeatedly, she didn't know that he loved someone else now, but so what?...

She gets to sleep next to him every night, she gets to have him provide for her, and if she really did not have any clue that something was off/missing (which I really, btw, can't understand how that is), then isn't she better off?

 

I always thought that if I was ever cheated on, I'd like to know, because I don't want to be played for a fool, I'd want to know if the person I'm giving my heart to is not being honest or loyal, and I still stand by that.

 

But...after getting involved in an A, it really got me wondering if Ignorance is Indeed Bliss?

 

If W doesn't know or doesn't feel anything is missing - then, she's either:

A. Clueless and so self involved to not notice anything else around her

B. In Bliss

 

Thoughts?....

 

p.s. For arguments sake, lets assume that MM is always safe and doesn't bring any STDs back to wife - just to skip that part of the argument. I'm talking about just being ignorant to the affair and the problems in R aspect.

Thanks

 

That's why some women say that if they H had an A but weren't going to leave M, they would not want to know.

[Silly_Girl]

That's why some women say that if they H had an A but weren't going to leave M, they would not want to know.

 

That's a point. The wife in my scenario wants him to admit it was just a sex thing, it couldn't be more, she doesn't want me mentioned and if he'll come back they'll never discuss me or the A again.

 

To me it's the old 'married at all costs' scenario I've heard several times on this board.

[Ellin]

Yes, some women really are happy enough when they have a H who sleeps in bed with them every night, provides for them, spend family gatherings with them etc.

 

In order to keep it that way they are prepared to allow the possibility of their H being unfaithful as long as he's not leaving. That's why they prefer not finding out - if they did, there would be pressure on them to do something about it.

 

Sorry, this is not a fairy tale land. Not every marriage is a perfect soul union. Often it's just convenience or certain needs being met. It could be not wanting to be alone, being used to the person and not wanting to look for someone else and bear the uncertainty of what will happen next or "the devil you know"... and so on.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Ellin

[SidLyon]

Here's my take.

 

Even if the BS doesn't "suspect"...there's still something missing, nearly always.

 

All that emotional investment that the WS is investing in the OW/OM actually DETRACTS from what they normally would invest in the marriage. (Now, I'll grant sometimes they're not investing regardless, but often there's still a good deal of 'withdrawl' from the marriage on their part when the A starts).

 

So it's not 'bliss'. The BS is getting less than they normally do (again, most times)...and that does normally make everyone unhappy. They ask the WS and get gaslighted (oh, it's nothing), and they try to accept that because most of the time deep down they WANT to trust their spouse, often even in the face of some pretty obvious proof.

 

But "bliss"? Not for most people I don't believe.

 

This is more or less what I lived and no it wasn't bliss. Finding out how long it had been going on at d-day was utterly traumatic for me.

 

I would never consciously turn a blind eye, but looking back there were so many times that I trusted him and believed his lies. The sad thing for me now, is knowing that even if I had pursued more of my vague suspicions and inconsistencies (which I actually did on a couple of occasions) I still would have been unlikely to get to the truth. It's hard to believe I was a financial fraud investigator for many years.

 

After d-day I had the fairly typical reaction of a BW in obsessively going through various records. However one thing I can say is that if I had employed financial fraud investigation techniques on my H (which I never ever would have thought to do), I might have come up with something (but not real evidence of infidelity) a lot earlier.

[TigerCub]

Yes, some women really are happy enough when they have a H who sleeps in bed with them every night, provides for them, spend family gatherings with them etc.

 

In order to keep it that way they are prepared to allow the possibility of their H being unfaithful as long as he's not leaving. That's why they prefer not finding out - if they did, there would be pressure on them to do something about it.

 

Thanks for the input Ellin.

I personally find that view very sad...but to each their own eh?!

[TigerCub]

This is more or less what I lived and no it wasn't bliss. Finding out how long it had been going on at d-day was utterly traumatic for me.

 

I would never consciously turn a blind eye, but looking back there were so many times that I trusted him and believed his lies. The sad thing for me now, is knowing that even if I had pursued more of my vague suspicions and inconsistencies (which I actually did on a couple of occasions) I still would have been unlikely to get to the truth. It's hard to believe I was a financial fraud investigator for many years.

 

After d-day I had the fairly typical reaction of a BW in obsessively going through various records. However one thing I can say is that if I had employed financial fraud investigation techniques on my H (which I never ever would have thought to do), I might have come up with something (but not real evidence of infidelity) a lot earlier.

 

Wow. I'm so sorry to hear that you went through that SidLyon.

I don't know your story, may I ask if you were able to reconcile with your H after knowledge of the affair?

 

Thanks for your honest input

[TigerCub]

The sad thing for me now, is knowing that even if I had pursued more of my vague suspicions and inconsistencies (which I actually did on a couple of occasions) I still would have been unlikely to get to the truth. It's hard to believe I was a financial fraud investigator for many years.

 

Just wanted to add that what you described above is usually the case = hindsight and all - I hope that you weren't too hard on yourself for not applying your investigator skills on your H.

 

I think its hard for people to be suspicious of those that they love the most, those that they want to believe in the most.

 

I hope that you're in a much happier place now

[SidLyon]

 

Wow. I'm so sorry to hear that you went through that SidLyon.

I don't know your story, may I ask if you were able to reconcile with your H after knowledge of the affair?

 

Thanks for your honest input

 

**********************************************

 

Just wanted to add that what you described above is usually the case = hindsight and all - I hope that you weren't too hard on yourself for not applying your investigator skills on your H.

 

I think its hard for people to be suspicious of those that they love the most, those that they want to believe in the most.

 

I hope that you're in a much happier place now

 

Yes we are reconciled/reconciling. I'm not sure at what point I can claim we are fully reconciled - maybe it will be a work in progress for a very long time. The 2nd anniversary of d-day is looming.

 

It's been hard for me to overcome the years of being lied to and betrayed and hard to re-establish trust. My fWH has been exemplary in his behaviour too which has greatly helped.

 

I was thinking only the other day that happiness has definitely returned to my life, but I still have my dark moments.

[GreenEyedLady]

In a thread called The BS and AP are more different than you think

the initial post was describing how the W is happy and goes about things differently than the AP who's constantly stressing about her status with MM and how she doesn't get as much time as she likes, constantly worries about how she's going to look for MM, etc....

 

It got me thinking - is the W that's ignorant to her MM's affairs really that much better off?

 

Before that post I often wondered if my MM's baby momma was better off.

Sure, she didn't know that he cheated on her repeatedly, she didn't know that he loved someone else now, but so what?...

She gets to sleep next to him every night, she gets to have him provide for her, and if she really did not have any clue that something was off/missing (which I really, btw, can't understand how that is), then isn't she better off?

 

I always thought that if I was ever cheated on, I'd like to know, because I don't want to be played for a fool, I'd want to know if the person I'm giving my heart to is not being honest or loyal, and I still stand by that.

 

But...after getting involved in an A, it really got me wondering if Ignorance is Indeed Bliss?

 

If W doesn't know or doesn't feel anything is missing - then, she's either:

A. Clueless and so self involved to not notice anything else around her

B. In Bliss

 

Thoughts?....

 

p.s. For arguments sake, lets assume that MM is always safe and doesn't bring any STDs back to wife - just to skip that part of the argument. I'm talking about just being ignorant to the affair and the problems in R aspect.

Thanks

 

Maybe they have an understanding. Maybe they married for something other than passionate love. Maybe they married for security or out of fear of getting older or whatever reason people marry for other than "true love."

 

Maybe the M has gotten to the point that the W doesn't want to be around her H anymore, yet wants the security that her life provides, so she doesn't really care to do anything about the problems in the M, since she's not planning on leaving.

 

If a W really doesn't figure it out when it is blatantly obvious, it's often that wonderful thing called denial. Naming the problem means that she has to deal with it and if she is not sure what to do, then she is unlikely to address the issue and instead hope it goes away.

 

Practically every BS here has said at one time or another they felt something was wrong, but didn't think it was that.

 

The whole post that this thread was referring to was just a feeble attempt at trying to make OW look desperate. I think it actually had the opposite effect and made the W look desperate. After all, she cannot accept reality, and deal with it. Instead she convinces herself to believe what she wants.

 

What I find more concerning is that people can't move on. GET OVER IT ALREADY!

 

We did.

 

GEL

[TigerCub]

Yes we are reconciled/reconciling. I'm not sure at what point I can claim we are fully reconciled - maybe it will be a work in progress for a very long time. The 2nd anniversary of d-day is looming.

I can certainly imagine how isn't not easy to just slip back into being "reconciled". I hope that the 2nd anniversary of d-day isn't too hard on you.

 

It's been hard for me to overcome the years of being lied to and betrayed and hard to re-establish trust. My fWH has been exemplary in his behaviour too which has greatly helped.

I think that proves that he really wants to do the things to make your marriage work. I think that WS that still make it difficult and act defensive and refuse to be completely open and bend over backwards to make it work - aren't sincere. I'm glad to hear that your H is

 

 

I was thinking only the other day that happiness has definitely returned to my life, but I still have my dark moments.

I'm very happy for you, that you're finally getting to a point where you can feel happiness again.

 

I wish you all the best

[TigerCub]

Maybe they have an understanding. Maybe they married for something other than passionate love. Maybe they married for security or out of fear of getting older or whatever reason people marry for other than "true love."

 

Maybe the M has gotten to the point that the W doesn't want to be around her H anymore, yet wants the security that her life provides, so she doesn't really care to do anything about the problems in the M, since she's not planning on leaving.

That's definitely a possibility. A very sad one, in my opinion. But to each their own...

 

The whole post that this thread was referring to was just a feeble attempt at trying to make OW look desperate.

Oh, I got that impression from that post. But my question about a BS really not knowing, was in the back of my mind throughout my involvement with xMM.

 

 

I think it actually had the opposite effect and made the W look desperate. After all, she cannot accept reality, and deal with it. Instead she convinces herself to believe what she wants.

I agree with that, but at the same time, I figure when people are hurting, they need to find whatever method works for them to lessen the pain.

So if that's her method, so be it.

 

From reading on these forums I have certainly learned A LOT more about all sorts of relationships, and I also came to learn about the various ways people either deal or bury their heads.

 

Thanks GEL

[TigerCub]

Maybe they have an understanding. Maybe they married for something other than passionate love. Maybe they married for security or out of fear of getting older or whatever reason people marry for other than "true love."

 

Maybe the M has gotten to the point that the W doesn't want to be around her H anymore, yet wants the security that her life provides, so she doesn't really care to do anything about the problems in the M, since she's not planning on leaving.

That's definitely a possibility. A very sad one, in my opinion. But to each their own...

 

The whole post that this thread was referring to was just a feeble attempt at trying to make OW look desperate.

Oh, I got that impression from that post. But my question about a BS really not knowing, was in the back of my mind throughout my involvement with xMM.

 

 

I think it actually had the opposite effect and made the W look desperate. After all, she cannot accept reality, and deal with it. Instead she convinces herself to believe what she wants.

I agree with that, but at the same time, I figure when people are hurting, they need to find whatever method works for them to lessen the pain.

So if that's her method, so be it.

 

From reading on these forums I have certainly learned A LOT more about all sorts of relationships, and I also came to learn about the various ways people either deal or bury their heads.

 

Thanks GEL

[WalkInThePark]

Maybe they have an understanding. Maybe they married for something other than passionate love. Maybe they married for security or out of fear of getting older or whatever reason people marry for other than "true love."

 

Maybe the M has gotten to the point that the W doesn't want to be around her H anymore, yet wants the security that her life provides, so she doesn't really care to do anything about the problems in the M, since she's not planning on leaving.

 

This is indeed possible. My xMM met someone 4 years ago and left his W for a while only to go back to his M afterwards. He told me that his W told him that whether he left or came back, her life was damned.

 

A couple of weeks ago I contacted her and told her that her H had had an affair with me but had also had several other As since 2004. I told her because I found out he had lied a lot to me and I was simply fed up with this. I did not care for a second about the outcome, I just did not want him to get away with it. I also sent her emails which I printed so that she would know I did not make this up.

In the way his W reacted, the most important thing for her seemed to be whether he would leave her or not. He does not intend to leave her but he does not intend to be 100% with her either; he keeps creating secret gardens by having EAs.

 

My impression was that she would not even tell him what I told her but would just try to avoid turbulence.

[greengoddess]

This is indeed possible. My xMM met someone 4 years ago and left his W for a while only to go back to his M afterwards. He told me that his W told him that whether he left or came back, her life was damned.

 

A couple of weeks ago I contacted her and told her that her H had had an affair with me but had also had several other As since 2004. I told her because I found out he had lied a lot to me and I was simply fed up with this. I did not care for a second about the outcome, I just did not want him to get away with it. I also sent her emails which I printed so that she would know I did not make this up.

In the way his W reacted, the most important thing for her seemed to be whether he would leave her or not. He does not intend to leave her but he does not intend to be 100% with her either; he keeps creating secret gardens by having EAs.

 

My impression was that she would not even tell him what I told her but would just try to avoid turbulence.

 

What I find fascinating about this is you saw him, loved him and knew he lied to his wife everyday and were ok with that but as soon as you found out he lied to you, you did not hesitate to tell his wife. Funny in an odd sort of way.

[WalkInThePark]

What I find fascinating about this is you saw him, loved him and knew he lied to his wife everyday and were ok with that but as soon as you found out he lied to you, you did not hesitate to tell his wife. Funny in an odd sort of way.

 

I was never OK with the fact that he lied to his W. Lies or lies whether it is towards me or towards someone else.

[Mimolicious]

In a thread called The BS and AP are more different than you think

the initial post was describing how the W is happy and goes about things differently than the AP who's constantly stressing about her status with MM and how she doesn't get as much time as she likes, constantly worries about how she's going to look for MM, etc....

 

It got me thinking - is the W that's ignorant to her MM's affairs really that much better off?

 

Before that post I often wondered if my MM's baby momma was better off.

Sure, she didn't know that he cheated on her repeatedly, she didn't know that he loved someone else now, but so what?...

She gets to sleep next to him every night, she gets to have him provide for her, and if she really did not have any clue that something was off/missing (which I really, btw, can't understand how that is), then isn't she better off?

 

I always thought that if I was ever cheated on, I'd like to know, because I don't want to be played for a fool, I'd want to know if the person I'm giving my heart to is not being honest or loyal, and I still stand by that.

 

But...after getting involved in an A, it really got me wondering if Ignorance is Indeed Bliss?

 

If W doesn't know or doesn't feel anything is missing - then, she's either:

A. Clueless and so self involved to not notice anything else around her

B. In Bliss

 

Thoughts?....

 

p.s. For arguments sake, lets assume that MM is always safe and doesn't bring any STDs back to wife - just to skip that part of the argument. I'm talking about just being ignorant to the affair and the problems in R aspect.

Thanks

 

 

Read your own question- (bolded part)

Your A&B choices, make little sense or I just forgot how to read...

 

Kinda like "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

What about if in fact, NOTHING IS WRONG at home? You guys seem to forget that those same "lovely and hot" MM/MW that sell you dreams and make you feel "amazing" are capable of making other people feel the same, even the store clerk. Why does his W gotta be made out to be some delusional b1tch living in fairyland?

 

She probably is clueless and self-involved, raising kids, running a home, etc... oh and being gassed up by some dork, who wouldn't be.

 

But I guess we can say just about everyone...

[greengoddess]

I was never OK with the fact that he lied to his W. Lies or lies whether it is towards me or towards someone else.

 

Then how did you find yourself in an affair? Didn't that go against who you are if you are not ok with lies? Affairs are propagated by lies.

[greengoddess]

Read your own question- (bolded part)

Your A&B choices, make little sense or I just forgot how to read...

 

Kinda like "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

What about if in fact, NOTHING IS WRONG at home? You guys seem to forget that those same "lovely and hot" MM/MW that sell you dreams and make you feel "amazing" are capable of making other people feel the same, even the store clerk. Why does his W gotta be made out to be some delusional b1tch living in fairyland?

 

She probably is clueless and self-involved, raising kids, running a home, etc... oh and being gassed up by some dork, who wouldn't be.

 

But I guess we can say just about everyone...

 

Could not agree more. These men are good. Look at all the ow taken in by them and then found out they were lied to also. I actually think we might have more ow on this board right now that are just broken up then currently in an affair. It would be an interesting poll. I bet most of the broken up are there because of lies being discovered.

[Mimolicious]

Is Ignorance Really Bliss? No, I wouldn't want to be ignorant to a cheating husband who has no respect for me, the marriage, and most of all for my time. I would rather know so I am not wasting my time with someone who doesn't take me as seriously as I take them. I would know so I could move on to someone else who truly wants me and only me. Time is precious and you can't get it back.

 

WORD! But in reality- You don't know what you don't know. Once you do, it is what it is and you do what you have to do. Some rather stay and deal with the bullshyte, others bounce and move on with their life.

And the one's that feel like "life is over and they can't breath without their love" because they are no longer with a cheating and lying POS, are actually the ignorant ones. (btw, this applies to both- the BS and AP).

 

I don't understand why would anyone expect someone else to do something that they, themselves are not willing to do. Classic!

[WalkInThePark]

Then how did you find yourself in an affair? Didn't that go against who you are if you are not ok with lies? Affairs are propagated by lies.

 

Because he lied about being married! And once I found out he still was married, he pretended to prepare a divorce and had a lot of very good sounding excuses. I know now that this man was very manipulative and took advantage of the fact that there is an element in his life which is indeed a difficult factor: he has a child which is seriously disabled.

 

Anyway, I am not on trial here and do not intend to stand on trial. I never made a commitment towards his W, he did. If he cheated it is because he chose to do so, not because I showed up.

[Mimolicious]

This is indeed possible. My xMM met someone 4 years ago and left his W for a while only to go back to his M afterwards. He told me that his W told him that whether he left or came back, her life was damned.

 

A couple of weeks ago I contacted her and told her that her H had had an affair with me but had also had several other As since 2004. I told her because I found out he had lied a lot to me and I was simply fed up with this. I did not care for a second about the outcome, I just did not want him to get away with it. I also sent her emails which I printed so that she would know I did not make this up.

In the way his W reacted, the most important thing for her seemed to be whether he would leave her or not. He does not intend to leave her but he does not intend to be 100% with her either; he keeps creating secret gardens by having EAs.

 

My impression was that she would not even tell him what I told her but would just try to avoid turbulence.

 

WITP- I like you so don't take this to the T...

 

WHO THE HELL GIVES ANYONE THE RIGHT TO RAM INTO SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE? IS REALLY MY QUESTION HERE. (trust me, I know the answer when it comes to my RL) Never seems to amaze me how people can just intrude...

 

Whoa! Jails, cemetery and hospitals will never be out of business. No wonder people snap and do crazy things. Look at all the playing around that people do with others lives. (I speak from experience and boy did it teach me to stay away from people so full of drama).

 

Life is too short to be wasting all this energy and bandwith on ONE (can't even say "single") HUMAN BEING! There are almost 8 billion people in the world. My "falling in love" possibilities are ENDLESS- NOW, that's "BLISS".

[TigerCub]

Read your own question- (bolded part)

Your A&B choices, make little sense or I just forgot how to read...

 

Kinda like "If it ain't broke, why fix it?"

What about if in fact, NOTHING IS WRONG at home? You guys seem to forget that those same "lovely and hot" MM/MW that sell you dreams and make you feel "amazing" are capable of making other people feel the same, even the store clerk.

I agree that the MM can put on a good act - that's for sure, that's how he gets to have the A and not get caught.

The bolded stuff that you pointed out is a real question to me.

How can W NOT notice that something is missing in her R?

I'm speaking based on my exMM and his girl.

He doesn't spend much time at home, they don't seem to do much stuff together - he wanted to take me out on weekend nights, etc...

 

So my question was real. Does she not notice that its missing? (maybe he was always like that with her before, I dunno)

 

If she doesn't notice, then maybe she really is "ignorant" to the affair - and all the other times he slept around behind her back - and if that's the case, then maybe "ignorance is bliss" - if she's happy enough and doesnt know she was betrayed multiple times.

 

Why does his W gotta be made out to be some delusional b1tch living in fairyland?

Maybe delusional or ignorant to the facts, but I never called her a bitch.

 

She probably is clueless and self-involved, raising kids, running a home, etc... oh and being gassed up by some dork

 

That's most likely what's going on.

But if she's happy doing that, then no harm no foul ?

[TigerCub]

Life is too short to be wasting all this energy and bandwith on ONE (can't even say "single") HUMAN BEING! There are almost 8 billion people in the world. My "falling in love" possibilities are ENDLESS- NOW, that's "BLISS".

 

I really like what you said up there - gonna repeat it to myself daily

[greengoddess]

Because he lied about being married! And once I found out he still was married, he pretended to prepare a divorce and had a lot of very good sounding excuses. I know now that this man was very manipulative and took advantage of the fact that there is an element in his life which is indeed a difficult factor: he has a child which is seriously disabled.

 

Anyway, I am not on trial here and do not intend to stand on trial. I never made a commitment towards his W, he did. If he cheated it is because he chose to do so, not because I showed up.

 

I'm sorry if you felt I was judging you. I wasn't. It's an odd set of circumstances when someone totally against lies ends up in an affair The whole ordeal you went through must have been rough since he lied to you from the beginning.

 

I do find it interesting though that you were judging his wife harshly for staying with him and then you threw in the seriously disabled child which certainly sheds some new light on why his wife is with him. She probably needs his support as a father even though he is a crappy husband. Very sad and changes the dynamic of your opinion of women and staying. You made it sound like she could care less he cheated. I doubt that. She's stuck and is putting her disabled child first. Did you want to hurt her for staying when you sent her all your emails?