2themoon&back Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 i am dealing with so many different emotions since my A with a MM, and the NC of it now.... but another facet of this is my friends and how they have chosen to react or act in the situation, and it has been very heartbreaking for me. One of my very best girl friends (i only have two that i would confide in and call best friends) has really done something i do not understand and i am having a hard time coming to terms with. I have know her for 13yrs, and we talked everyday... when i told her i was having an A with the MM, she said she knew it because of the way he looked at me, and how beautiful we were together (as a couple), she was all caught up in the romance of the A and was even envious, she is very attracted to MM, and would say stuff like "wow you really have it... what do you do to him... you have him, he is crazy about you " and two, she loved me to talk about the way he treated me and would say OMG he is so in love with you, yall are meant to be together. She was so supportive to me as well as the MM, she knows him and they talked sometime, and when we were all three together hanging out she would make comments about how we were perfect for one another and to stop looking at each other while she was talking (she would poke fun at how into each other we were). my friend is in an abusive M, with a alcoholic H, and she has no intention of leaving because as she said, she has been there for 32yrs, she is in too far, so what was going on in my life seemed fun and wonderful to her because MM was so into me and treated me very well. now here is where things changed for me and my friend and the part i do not understand... the first time me and the MM were discovered by the W, my friend was supportive and kind, but she would say to me that i had to know the A would end because he had a family and took up for the wife, but the A continued and again she got all caught up in A and the way MM just could not leave me alone, she would say he loves you so much. the second time the BS discovered the A had not stopped, my friend again took the side of the W, and acted like i was reasonable for the whole A, MM went to this friend and asked her to rent him an empty apartment she had, which she could not because her husband would not let her rent it to a single man, MM also asked her to call me and tell me he loved me and he was sorry, during a period i would not talk to him, she did this, but she still acted as if i would just leave him alone he could go back to his family and go on with his life. The A continued and again she talked about how lucky i was to have someone love me the way the MM did. well the last time the A was discovered, my friend held nothing back, she let me know that, if i would not have made myself so available to him, he would have stopped, she told me that i should have known that he would chose his W and family over me, she said that i was the OW and everyone hates the OW, and when i tried to defend myself, she told me that i was f*@king that woman’s husband, and that i was cruel. i was devastated by all of this and could not believe what i was hearing, she was acting like i betrayed her, and like it was her H i was with...IT WAS Not her H and SHE was MY friend, wtf!!! i know her husband treats her badly and is very very controlling and has had several A’s, but it seems like she said everything she ever wanted to say to the women her H had A’s with and said it to me...... her best friend. why?? i miss her friendship and i needed her support but i have had to stop talking to her it is just tooooo painful along with all the other emotions i am going through and she also told me she planned to continue a friendship with my xMM, so i did not want to hear about that either. i am just venting here and wondering if this has happened to others, loosing good friends because you had an A with a MM/MW? it is hard enough NC with MM, but NC with your best friend during this time has been hard as well... it is just sad that i can say it is sad !!!!
TigerCub Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 Hey 2themoon, I'm sorry that you're going thru a rough time with NC and now NC with your friend as well. I agree that it is confusing because you got 2 different reactions from her depending on what was going on. I think that the stuff she said to you, about how you're messing with a married man, etc...- she ALWAYS thought. But she was supportive when it was all fun, because she thought, she'd let you have your fun and she'll also live through your details/stories (as her own little escape from her own hell) But everytime the BS was mentioned - that's when it was REAL to your friend. And so that's when she'd show her true feelings. Your friend is married and no matter how she enjoys the girl talk about your MM, she will always value marriage and always believe that MM end up choosing his W over the OW. So when yours did, and you were upset, she just thought of that as "typical OW" trying to take what is rightfully the W's. i know her husband treats her badly and is very very controlling and has had several A’s, but it seems like she said everything she ever wanted to say to the women her H had A’s with and said it to me...... her best friend. why?? I think that there, is very true. Your friend is in a terrible R and she has been cheated on, and probably never confronted any of her H's OW - so yeah she harbors a LOT of hate towards OW in general. She was happy to listen to your details when it was fun - but when things get serious and MM has to choose between OW or W - she's definitely going to show her true feelings about that.
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 19, 2010 Author Posted September 19, 2010 Hey 2themoon, I'm sorry that you're going thru a rough time with NC and now NC with your friend as well. I agree that it is confusing because you got 2 different reactions from her depending on what was going on. I think that the stuff she said to you, about how you're messing with a married man, etc...- she ALWAYS thought. But she was supportive when it was all fun, because she thought, she'd let you have your fun and she'll also live through your details/stories (as her own little escape from her own hell) But everytime the BS was mentioned - that's when it was REAL to your friend. And so that's when she'd show her true feelings. Your friend is married and no matter how she enjoys the girl talk about your MM, she will always value marriage and always believe that MM end up choosing his W over the OW. So when yours did, and you were upset, she just thought of that as "typical OW" trying to take what is rightfully the W's. I think that there, is very true. Your friend is in a terrible R and she has been cheated on, and probably never confronted any of her H's OW - so yeah she harbors a LOT of hate towards OW in general. She was happy to listen to your details when it was fun - but when things get serious and MM has to choose between OW or W - she's definitely going to show her true feelings about that. you are very right on the money... it does not feel better but at least i do not feel alone in my thoughts about my friendship with her... and i will say every time the A continued she would be shocked that the MM would not stop the A, even when the W knew and MM and W were going to MC, he still did not stop and she would be all messed up with his choice and have to stay i guess he really does love you then, (he told her he loved me but i think she just dismissed it as lust... that would fit into her rationalization of A's to begin with) and she would tell me if her H ever told her that “he loved OW” , she would have been finished with him... looking back i doubt this to be a true statement... but i guess there were a lot of double messages and I may not be smart enough to be friends with people who are good at double talk because I suck at it. as always thanks for your insight... hope you to are doing well
2sunny Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 this... well the last time the A was discovered, my friend held nothing back, she let me know that, if i would not have made myself so available to him, he would have stopped, she told me that i should have known that he would chose his W and family over me, she said that i was the OW and everyone hates the OW, and when i tried to defend myself, she told me that i was f*@king that woman’s husband, and that i was cruel. i was devastated by all of this and could not believe what i was hearing, she was acting like i betrayed her, and like it was her H i was with...IT WAS Not her H and SHE was MY friend, wtf!!! i know her husband treats her badly and is very very controlling and has had several A’s, but it seems like she said everything she ever wanted to say to the women her H had A’s with and said it to me...... her best friend. why?? because that is HER truth. the truth hurts. own it. it's yours... she's pointing out the way YOU choose to participate. i know it hurts, but she being as honest as she's capable based on her own experience. her experience comes from the pit of her gut knowing she's the betrayed spouse. it hurts, and she was pointing out to you how painful it is when you are on the side that she stands.
TigerCub Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 you are very right on the money... it does not feel better but at least i do not feel alone in my thoughts about my friendship with her... and i will say every time the A continued she would be shocked that the MM would not stop the A, even when the W knew and MM and W were going to MC, he still did not stop and she would be all messed up with his choice and have to stay i guess he really does love you then, (he told her he loved me but i think she just dismissed it as lust... that would fit into her rationalization of A's to begin with) and she would tell me if her H ever told her that “he loved OW” , she would have been finished with him... looking back i doubt this to be a true statement... but i guess there were a lot of double messages and I may not be smart enough to be friends with people who are good at double talk because I suck at it. as always thanks for your insight... hope you to are doing well You're very welcome I'm actually surprised though that you did tell this particular friend about your involvement in an A. I know that she's a best friend and stuff, but personally, I haven't discussed my own situation with any of my close Married girl friends. Just because I thought they would have very personal views against it (even if they have never been cheated on). Either way, if this friendship matters so much to you. I would suggest that after you allow for a cooling off period, if you want to have her in you life, and be friends, etc. Do so, just dont talk about your situation with MM at all. That's only a part of what's going on in your life as a whole. She doesn't need to know about it - if you want to be friends again. Good luck
Star_Bright Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 I'm sorry you're hurting. I think TigerCub hit the nail on the head. Also maybe once things went sour for you and MM, your friend saw how hurt you were and wanted to look out for your best interest and not just feed a fantasy. If he had left his W then maybe she would have been supportive (or jealous? She sounds a bit jealous.) But once YOU got hurt MAYBE(?) she was just trying to help by pointing out your own actions so you can learn from them. But she definitely should have said something about understanding why you were acting that way... clearly the MM did something to get you to stay with him after all those D-days! So she should have had more empathy but maybe in some strange way she was just trying to help? And yes her position as a wife would come into play I think. I have only told three people IRL about my A with MM. One is my sister who supports me no matter what and is not married but she has repeatedly told me to forget about him, ha ha. The other two are unmarried girl friends who support me and who have BTDT and are not judgmental in the least. They support me either way but when I went NC with MM my one friend who had been very nice and supportive of me and MM and also said things like, he's so into you, and he wants to marry you already, agreed with my assessment of things and said he needs to figure out things on his own if we are going to work out and it's not fair for him to want to be with me if he can't give me 100%. So that is why I was thinking maybe your friend is trying to do the same thing... support you in good times but also try to give you a dose of reality in the bad times? In your case you did not choose NC, it was forced upon you (I'm guessing from what you posted here), but it is what it is so maybe she is trying to help you get over it?
Star_Bright Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 I also wanted to add that MM started telling some of his close friends about us and the ones who are married-- even very unhappily married and even some that have cheated themselves and/or gotten divorced-- think he is crazy and are asking him wtf he is doing. That is their perspective and they are entitled to it and I think no one understands unless they are really in it. I know it hurts because she's your best friend but hopefully you two can still be friends even if you can't talk about it for awhile. I actually think it's good that she's being honest and direct with you instead of sugar coating things or talking behind your back, you know? Just trying to look at the positive. Good luck.
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 19, 2010 Author Posted September 19, 2010 Star_Bright i think you to are right, the only reason she ever found out about the A was MM kept showing up in her office only when i was there and she asked me and i told her the truth. she said she knew by the way he acted with me, otherwise i would have never told her and did not for 2yrs. again you are right she was jealous, she always said “of course you cannot resist him... just look at him, he has everything, looks, body, funny and a good personality and he is crazy about you “... she said “i never had a chance where he was concerned “... i always felt she might wish it was her he looked at that way, but dismissed it because i know how her life is at home. As for NC it was just initiated, maybe more by me than him for the simple fact i said not to contact me anymore, i have no idea what he wanted. he may have wanted or needed NC too because we have been NC for about 10 weeks, but a few days ago i seen him ride by my house and we live nowhere near each other , time will tell. thank you for your much needed perspective...
2sunny Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 As for NC it was just initiated, maybe more by me than him for the simple fact i said not to contact me anymore, if you say one thing and DO another - YOU are the one sending mixed signals to him... DO what you say.
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 19, 2010 Author Posted September 19, 2010 if you say one thing and DO another - YOU are the one sending mixed signals to him... DO what you say. i did do what i said ... when i told MM on july 3 not to ever speak to me again .... he has not nor have i spoke to him What i meant by that was the situation dictated NC also i try to always mean what i say and say what i mean ... i live and die by the words " if you are big enough to do it ... you must be big enough to OWN IT" not saying that I am not capable of sending a mixed message every now and then --but in this case I there were no mixed messages … even as difficult as NC has been I am still doing it.
2sunny Posted September 19, 2010 Posted September 19, 2010 ok good. i do apologize - i must have read that incorrectly. i interpreted it as, i am trying to do NC but allowing him to contact me... my bad. As for NC it was just initiated, maybe more by me than him for the simple fact i said not to contact me anymore, i have no idea what he wanted.
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 19, 2010 Author Posted September 19, 2010 while we are still on the subject of my friend... she also had a brief A, with a MM but she was much younger and she was not involved long term, and now acts like it never happened, which i was ok with ... i just wish she could have been more kind in her ways of supporting me, i do not need such harsh realities from my friends-- i am living them!!!
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 19, 2010 Author Posted September 19, 2010 ok good. i do apologize - i must have read that incorrectly. i interpreted it as, i am trying to do NC but allowing him to contact me... my bad. no biggie ... believe this i misread a lot of stuff ha ha and no apologize needed but thank you anyway ... and i am sure there have been a time or two( i have not made myself clear) something i am leaning to do better !! and you gave me the chance to do that today so thank you
TigerCub Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 while we are still on the subject of my friend... she also had a brief A, with a MM but she was much younger and she was not involved long term, and now acts like it never happened, which i was ok with ... i just wish she could have been more kind in her ways of supporting me, i do not need such harsh realities from my friends-- i am living them!!! Yeah but was her A before she found out about any of the times her H cheated on her? I'm guessing so, and back then, she told you about it. Then she had it happen to her, and of course that would change her attitude towards OW and cheating, so much so, that she'd be so ashamed of the fact that she, herself did it once - and therefore denies it all together now. - its easier to maintain the Holier Than Thou attitude that way
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 20, 2010 Author Posted September 20, 2010 Yeah but was her A before she found out about any of the times her H cheated on her? I'm guessing so, and back then, she told you about it. Then she had it happen to her, and of course that would change her attitude towards OW and cheating, so much so, that she'd be so ashamed of the fact that she, herself did it once - and therefore denies it all together now. - its easier to maintain the Holier Than Thou attitude that way you are half right... her H has always had flings, she married him when she was in her teens, so she has had to deal with his A's for almost 32yrs, but she says the A’s did not mean anything...what we tell our selves and what we can make ourselves believe, sometime blows my mind (and i know i am guilty of doing it too) (gross) anyway... she told me about her affair years after it had happened, but i think she told me just so she could show me she related to my situation and it is something she is ashamed of, and of course she feels i should be ashamed as well, but i am not and i can see now that must frustrate her very much. i also can see she did have a "holier than thou attitude" in her opinions of me, just because i had an A, did not change everything about who i am--- one of which is was her friend. i took a lot of her opinions and respected they were just that--- her opinion and remained her friend, until this last time, it was bad timing for me and it was very hurtful, no matter what her intentions were...i would have hoped she valued me as a person and a friend to put her opinions aside for the moment. And again I am just venting here and wondering if anything like this had happened to anyone else …. But as always I enjoy hearing from you !!
TigerCub Posted September 20, 2010 Posted September 20, 2010 And again I am just venting here and wondering if anything like this had happened to anyone else …. Well as far as that goes - my sisters and the 2 close friends that know about my situation, never approved - BUT they were never cruel in expressing their opinions about it, and they were still there for me to whine and complain to when my heart was breaking. I think it bugs them a lot mainly because they know I deserve better - so I understand their position. I hope that you have other real life friends that you can confide in, that can tell you what they truly think without being cruel.
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 20, 2010 Author Posted September 20, 2010 Well as far as that goes - my sisters and the 2 close friends that know about my situation, never approved - BUT they were never cruel in expressing their opinions about it, and they were still there for me to whine and complain to when my heart was breaking. I think it bugs them a lot mainly because they know I deserve better - so I understand their position. I hope that you have other real life friends that you can confide in, that can tell you what they truly think without being cruel. i do have one best friend---she has been the OW and the BS, she is very supportive and my closest friend, my xH---We are much better friends than lovers/or spouses to one another, and he knows the whole situation and knows that i love xMM very much and xMM told him that he loved me, to say i am very lucky to have xH, he is very very supportive, and we have children and grandchildren so we choose to be friends and i have my mother --- she too has been the BS and the OW --- all in all i am very lucky to have anyone but these 3 people i know i can trust and know me and will support me either way and when it all blows up in my face as it has --- they are there with loving arms... and now I have LS to come to find others like me, who have chosen this path and how we really all have the same concerns, worries, hurts, wounds, losses, love and heartaches…. I am so happy I found LS, it has done wonders for me !!!!
Dexter Morgan Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 well the last time the A was discovered, my friend held nothing back, she let me know that, if i would not have made myself so available to him, he would have stopped, she told me that i should have known that he would chose his W and family over me, she said that i was the OW and everyone hates the OW, and when i tried to defend myself, she told me that i was f*@king that woman’s husband, and that i was cruel. i was devastated by all of this and could not believe what i was hearing, she was acting like i betrayed her, and like it was her H i was with...IT WAS Not her H and SHE was MY friend, wtf!!! yes, but you are the same type of person that IS helping her husband betray her. Of course she is going to be upset that you are messing around with someone elses husband...her OW and you are cut from the same mold. of course it pisses her off. i know her husband treats her badly and is very very controlling and has had several A’s, but it seems like she said everything she ever wanted to say to the women her H had A’s with and said it to me...... her best friend. why?? because she now has a distaste for women that sleep with other womens' husbands....and now you are one of them. i miss her friendship and i needed her support but i have had to stop talking to her it is just tooooo painful along with all the other emotions i am going through and she also told me she planned to continue a friendship with my xMM, so i did not want to hear about that either. well if she plans on boffing him, then she will become no better and will be a hypocrite to rail against OW because she will become one. And it makes no sense for her to be friends with a cheating man that is just like her husband. but as far as bothering you, xMM is not your husband. only person that need be bothered is the wife. i am just venting here and wondering if this has happened to others, loosing good friends because you had an A with a MM/MW? I've never been friends with someone that slept with other husbands' wives or cheated (that I know of). But I do not develop friendships with those I know have or do. it is hard enough NC with MM, but NC with your best friend during this time has been hard as well... it is just sad that i can say it is sad !!!! the thing is, you can't best your friend for the way she feels. she has suffered under her husband and the women that slept with him....OW. And now you are one. So even though she is taking it over the top, I understand her distaste at your situation. But her being friends with the cheating MM would indicate to me that she is a hypocrite. As far as it being hard to go NC with MM....it shouldn't. He is a scumbag cheater. That is the way you need to look at it. And if you don't look at it that way...then damn..I need to become a cheating dog and have women fall at my feet then, because I must be looking at this the wrong way.
Dexter Morgan Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 while we are still on the subject of my friend... she also had a brief A, with a MM but she was much younger and she was not involved long term oh, well then...she is a total hypocrite. When she told you that you "f####d another woman's husband" you should have said, "so did you ya hypocrite"
pureinheart Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Hi 2TM, I agree with SB, TC hit it....on one hand she hates A's, yet on the other hand she likes the romance of it. I understand how hard all of this can be, none of it is easy...I have nothing profound to add, just a big hug ((((((((((( )))))))))). I wish you peace:)
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 23, 2010 Author Posted September 23, 2010 Dexter .... as always i like that you bring your truth to any and all situation, your perception of things, if not always kind ---is always honest and i must respect that... thank you as always for your insight!!! you do make me think! and you in one way validated what i thought to begin with .... she is being very hypocritical.
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 23, 2010 Author Posted September 23, 2010 Hi 2TM, I agree with SB, TC hit it....on one hand she hates A's, yet on the other hand she likes the romance of it. I understand how hard all of this can be, none of it is easy...I have nothing profound to add, just a big hug ((((((((((( )))))))))). I wish you peace:) nothing profound needed ... and i agree with you on this one, i even argee with dexter, thanks for your post !! hugs and peace to you as well !!
Golon Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 I have only told a few close friends.... Their reaction has been hard to take. I don't have a close friend who has ever been an OW. My friends strongly disagree with the relationship and simply tell me to end it. It is very black and white to them. This means when I am down I literally have no-one to turn to.....no-one who can relate. It is awful... On all matters in my life I have found my friends to be great.....but now I can't turn to them and it makes me so sad.
scatterd Posted September 25, 2010 Posted September 25, 2010 I have to agree DM and as far as friends a good one will tell you when your wrong and also support you.She gave her thoughts on this after seeing the all the ups and downs and probably saw it was causing all kinds of pain.If you was to jump off a cliff do you think she should agree? Someday you may see she was not so wrong for telling you the truth and maybe you will thank her.When you are on the out side looking in its easier to see things the way they are.She may have wanted the pain of NC and pain it was going to cause to end.I don't understand being his friend though thats kind of odd.Good Luck in time this will pass.
Author 2themoon&back Posted September 30, 2010 Author Posted September 30, 2010 I have to agree DM and as far as friends a good one will tell you when your wrong and also support you.She gave her thoughts on this after seeing the all the ups and downs and probably saw it was causing all kinds of pain.If you was to jump off a cliff do you think she should agree? Someday you may see she was not so wrong for telling you the truth and maybe you will thank her.When you are on the out side looking in its easier to see things the way they are.She may have wanted the pain of NC and pain it was going to cause to end.I don't understand being his friend though thats kind of odd.Good Luck in time this will pass. i am sure you are right about “time will pass and things will look different” they always do. i doubt i will thank my friend that acted like being involved with this MM was all great until things went south and then she acted like i did something to hurt her, and i know i will not thank her for her opinion of me as a person either... i am still the same person she liked/loved for many years that made a bad decision, that does not make me a bad person and no longer worthy of decency. i think when dealing with a long term friend or relationship--you have an idea of how to handle the person you are involved with. i think that is part of friendship is knowing the person and excepting them as they are, nothing wrong with telling them what you think, but in how you say it and if you take what they are doing in their own lives personally then you may need to step back even further to see things better as well.
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