The Bs and The AP are more different tha you may think.

[donnamaybe]

Sorry. I meant it was much the same that she knows the situation and isn't lied to. He is telling her what his priorities are now. She appears to be trying to do her best to build a relationship he wants to be in full time. She knows the truth of the situation. The similarity is that she is aware of why he won't go now and her posts show that she's aware he may never go. The choice is always hers and as she's said if it gets to the point the bad outweighs the good her choice may well change. That's what I meant about the similarities. Sorry!

One might THINK they know the situation. After years and years of the same old same old, one would think reality would sink in.

 

Obviously I am not referring in anyway to those here who have no expectations or hopes of their affairs other than what they currently have. Or to those who hear the lies but dont believe them .

[pureinheart]

Hitler used Europe as a playground and killed millions before anyone raised a finger against him. He was as obvious as a person could be but the world couldn't believe he could do what he was really doing. People see what they want to see and they believe what they want to believe. Only when they are either hit with it directly or there is some sort of confrontation to force the change will it change.

 

I'm not comparing any party in an A to Hitler. I'm using the situation as a representation as to what humans are willing to accept and see. I agree with you that sometimes the mind boggles about what people will accept and what they won't, what they see and what they don't.

 

Wow...this is awesome...you need to be in the "Current Events" forum or the political one...this is really good...those are very hard forums to keep up with and your wording is perfecto *making Italian hand motion*.

 

Politically speaking this IS happening today on so many levels and agree as I see it in the relationship forums also...I do see the correlation bigtime.

[donnamaybe]

You're SERIOUSLY going to try to compare something that happened oceans and countries away YEARS before the advent of the internet and even TV which wasn't seen first hand until it was brought to light with an A partner being involved for years and years and years and hearing face to face the same old song and dance and STILL allowing themselves to think they'll ever be the "chosen one?"

Not so awesome. I think the comparison is nowhere near valid.

[pureinheart]

Personally, I have never been a victim, always a victor. Maybe not immediately, although in the end...victor. The challenges that I have encountered are just that...they are worked through, I bitch and complain sometimes, sometimes I see it right, and sometimes see it wrong.

 

I think walking a mile in someone elses shoes makes all the difference, being objective and rational.

[Summer Breeze]

One might THINK they know the situation. After years and years of the same old same old, one would think reality would sink in.

 

Obviously I am not referring in anyway to those here who have no expectations or hopes of their affairs other than what they currently have. Or to those who hear the lies but dont believe them .

 

The trick is that you don't see her reality. Just like my mom who always knew that at some point she'd get the best from my dad. She lived with everything he put her through because she firmly believed they belonged together. I'd have ditched him like a shot. Her acceptance and her reality were totally different from what mine would have been. What you see is not what JJ sees. I see what you're saying but we all have different perspectives and levels of acceptance on things. If I were JJ I wouldn't give up until my last bloody finger couldn't grip him any longer. I know that's dramatic but hopefully you know what I mean.

[Summer Breeze]

Originally Posted by donnamaybe

You're SERIOUSLY going to try to compare something that happened oceans and countries away YEARS before the advent of the internet and even TV which wasn't seen first hand until it was brought to light with an A partner being involved for years and years and years and hearing face to face the same old song and dance and STILL allowing themselves to think they'll ever be the "chosen one?"

Not so awesome. I think the comparison is nowhere near valid. .

 

 

So because there wasn't a television or internet it didn't matter? The reports and visits by the Red Cross and other humanitarian groups didn't matter? Reports from survivors and relatives of the cleansing didn't matter? Nothing mattered because the medium wasn't television or the internet? Hmmm...I'm having a hard time processing that.

[HappyAtLast]

I never have and never will bad mouth my wife.

 

Nor would a gentleman badmouth his affair partner. A gentleman would not badmouth either lady.

[eeyore1981]

Nor would a gentleman badmouth his affair partner. A gentleman would not badmouth either lady.

 

A gentleman wouldn't cheat.

 

I'm behind on this thread, so maybe this has already been said, but IMO, most of the WP in the affairs are doing some kind of badmouthing of their SO to the AP, whether outright bashing or by insinuation. I don't get all the uproar of the WP badmouthing the AP. IMO, anything coming out of the mouth of a cheater needs to be taken with a large rock of salt. By everyone.

[Owl]

Nor would a gentleman badmouth his affair partner. A gentleman would not badmouth either lady.

 

A man acting as a true gentleman wouldn't engage in an affair, period.

 

TB ended the affair of his own accord, and informed both his wife and his OW.

 

From the sounds of it, his OW then went on the warpath...engaging in bunny boiling, stalkerish type behavior unbecoming of a lady.

 

I don't see him bad-mouthing the OW for engaging in the affair with him...I see him commenting on her horrible behavior afterwards once the decision was made and communicated.

 

What SHOULD he have done once she engaged in these actions?

[donnamaybe]

So because there wasn't a television or internet it didn't matter? The reports and visits by the Red Cross and other humanitarian groups didn't matter? Reports from survivors and relatives of the cleansing didn't matter? Nothing mattered because the medium wasn't television or the internet? Hmmm...I'm having a hard time processing that.

Um, no, and I think just about anyone would read my post and actually GLEAN what I wrote which was it took a LONG TIME to find out about the goings on in another country as compared to how long it would today with TV, the media everywhere at once, and the internet. A LOT longer than it SHOULD take for an astute AP to figure out that when a guy hasn't left after years and years and years and years and years, he just is NOT gonna leave. Period.

 

Good gawd.

[donnamaybe]

The trick is that you don't see her reality. Just like my mom who always knew that at some point she'd get the best from my dad. She lived with everything he put her through because she firmly believed they belonged together. I'd have ditched him like a shot. Her acceptance and her reality were totally different from what mine would have been. What you see is not what JJ sees. I see what you're saying but we all have different perspectives and levels of acceptance on things. If I were JJ I wouldn't give up until my last bloody finger couldn't grip him any longer. I know that's dramatic but hopefully you know what I mean.

SUCH a waste of time when the statement has been made that there is a want for more that will most likely never come.

[Summer Breeze]

Wise Owl! Just in general reference, not necessarily TB, it IS textbook. I too don't get what the problem is unless OW just can't stand to admit that a MM could possibly treat them that way. I don't get it. Most OW know the WS is married, so expecting superior treatment seems like a case of inflated ego to me.

 

Man, I sure hope you stick around. Your posts are really refreshing. Sorry you are getting bashed over the head. Sometimes OW get their panties in a twist over the thought that the MM might hold his W in higher regard than the OW. Of course, if you had come here like another MM did and said you so luuurved the OW, it would be sunshine and roses for you. But you've been upfront with the truth, and like another MM (Blog somebody?), you're getting hissy fits from the OW crowd. It's an interesting dynamic isn't it? I'm sorry you've been getting crap for your posts, but the predictable responses have been entertaining.

 

And my best to you in your continued reconciliation.

 

Yep. Like Owl said, affairs are for the most part pretty predictible. The WS lies to the BS and the AP to maintain the affair. The OW lies to herself to swallow the lies to keep the A going. In the end, it's just one big lie.

 

Fantastic post from fantastic 2sure.

 

So greengoddess, did you think your thread would turn out like this? It's been funny to read. Of course the BS and OW are different! If the WS wanted more of the same, he wouldn't need to cheat, right?

 

Responding to what I've bolded. Care to quote one place where anyone is saying that he should be saying anything about his W or that the W should be treated poorly? I think you'll find just the opposite. As for the other MM who was in here. The BS did an absolute hatchet job on him. He dared come in and say something about actually loving his OW and you'd have thought he was the devil incarnate. You know as well as I do that the topics are polarizing and we're all going to land on our own sides. We don't need to incite where there isn't an issue. I may be wrong but I don't recall anyone getting any digs in about Thomas not speaking poorly about his W

[SpillinItAll]

Unfortunately many believe that the WS does not lie to the AP inspite of their very obvious capacity to do so) - after all, they know the WS so well that they would be able to tell. This shows a complete disregard for the BS and their knowledge of the WS for a far longer period and in a full-time committed relationship.

 

Sifting through the many pages of this thread and that is exactly what I'm thinking as well. Why in the world do the OW think their MM are being honest with them? This is just absolutely bizarre to me:confused:

[Summer Breeze]

Um, no, and I think just about anyone would read my post and actually GLEAN what I wrote which was it took a LONG TIME to find out about the goings on in another country as compared to how long it would today with TV, the media everywhere at once, and the internet. A LOT longer than it SHOULD take for an astute AP to figure out that when a guy hasn't left after years and years and years and years and years, he just is NOT gonna leave. Period.

 

Good gawd.

 

Oh for Gawds sake you actually are worrying about the speed of information from then to now as to what was actually being said? No wonder I always feel like I'm pounding my head against a wall.

[Summer Breeze]

SUCH a waste of time when the statement has been made that there is a want for more that will most likely never come.

 

Of course it's a waste of time. I'll stop doing that for us both now.

[HappyAtLast]

In general, a man who has engaged in an affair (I would have to take exception to the gentleman part, I engaged in an affair and consider myself to be a gentleman) should never badmouth either of the other in the triangle, regardless of with whom he ends up.

 

This recent disclosure of extremely bad behavior from his affair partner definitely gives one pause, and perhaps a reason to speak ill of her.

[Summer Breeze]

Sifting through the many pages of this thread and that is exactly what I'm thinking as well. Why in the world do the OW think their MM are being honest with them? This is just absolutely bizarre to me:confused:

 

You've obviously not read all of the posts then. Why is it bizarre to think some don't? Do you think that some of the WS that go home aren't lying? Do you think that they aren't just waiting for things to calm down? Why do so many insist that there are a good number of MM who aren't lying because they don't need to? Back to my regularly scheduled ice cream........

[HappyAtLast]

Owl, I trust that you do consider your wife to be a lady?

 

edited: meaning to say that she, at that point in time, was guilty of unladylike behavior? I would be surprised to believe that you do not consider her a lady.

Edited September 27, 2010 by HappyAtLast
clarity

[BB07]

jthorne said.........

Wise Owl! Just in general reference, not necessarily TB, it IS textbook. I too don't get what the problem is unless OW just can't stand to admit that a MM could possibly treat them that way. I don't get it. Most OW know the WS is married, so expecting superior treatment seems like a case of inflated ego to me.

 

IF you are referring to me, I don't have an inflated ego, nor do I expect superior treatment, nor do I like your snarky comments. Read my prior posts on this thread and it's pretty clear where I'm coming from, it's about Thomas's attitude toward a woman who he now feels is beneath him, but yet at the time she wasn't because he HAD an affair with her. Now given, that he has later explained the bunny boiler behavior, that explains a lot of it and I get that and understand it. Oh and weren't you once an OW yourself? If that is correct, then I don't get where you get your superior attitude comes from.

 

Man, I sure hope you stick around. Your posts are really refreshing. Sorry you are getting bashed over the head. Sometimes OW get their panties in a twist over the thought that the MM might hold his W in higher regard than the OW. Of course, if you had come here like another MM did and said you so luuurved the OW, it would be sunshine and roses for you. But you've been upfront with the truth, and like another MM (Blog somebody?), you're getting hissy fits from the OW crowd. It's an interesting dynamic isn't it? I'm sorry you've been getting crap for your posts, but the predictable responses have been entertaining.

 

I see no hissy fits here, an exchange of viewpost, yes, well except for your barbs thrown out at the "OW crowd" by you. You enjoy the role of putting everyone into a narrow little box don't you and throwing out your own little barbs, don't you? Do you find your sarcasm entertaining? I see your post as nothing more than an attempt to do the exact thing that you are complaining about, pitting one group against the other.

 

 

Guess what......I don't fit in your little narrow box and I don't care for your generalizations about me just because of my former status and I don't like to be pigeon holed.

 

 

And my best to you in your continued reconciliation.

 

Yep. Like Owl said, affairs are for the most part pretty predictible. The WS lies to the BS and the AP to maintain the affair. The OW lies to herself to swallow the lies to keep the A going. In the end, it's just one big lie.

 

Fantastic post from fantastic 2sure.

 

So greengoddess, did you think your thread would turn out like this? It's been funny to read. Of course the BS and OW are different! If the WS wanted more of the same, he wouldn't need to cheat, right?

[Pickles4Breakfast]

Sifting through the many pages of this thread and that is exactly what I'm thinking as well. Why in the world do the OW think their MM are being honest with them? This is just absolutely bizarre to me:confused:

 

 

Yup. Delusional thinking obviously.

[Spark1111]

It doesn't matter what the WS does, it is always wrong.

 

Anyway, my MM is a very gentle and kind man, slow to anger. He treats the whole world with courtesy and respect. Why would he treat his wife any different?

 

I'm sure the OW in my scenario thought exactly the same way as you do.

[bentnotbroken]

Ah but Jenny, infidelity is murder. The WS effectively murders the marriage. In order to recover you MUST create a new marriage. Starting from scratch, with all the anger, heartbreak, and mistrust thrown into the mix. If you can and do reconcile you are very much stronger and more intimate. It's the way it works.

 

 

 

:bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:YES!!!!:bunny::bunny::bunny:

[Spark1111]

Summer, I did exactly that. Told her it was done. Cut off contact. Gave notice at the job place. ETC. She was the one who continued trying to contact me, attacking my wife, having her family members stalk us. Repeated phone calls, flat tires, drive bys, you name it we suffered through it. She once even went to my then 8 year old stepsons bus stop to tell him she was going to be his new mama! What exactly do you think I should have done different... other than not having the affair in the first place. That was spilt milk.

 

I have said over and over and over again that there are ALL TYPES of APs, BSs and WSs.....

 

No one came to a bus stop, BUT....everything else sounds the same.

[Spark1111]

So do you think it is worse to treat the OW/OM like dirt than it is to treat the BS in that way?

 

After all, the WS chose to marry the BS (a far stronger commitment than an affair)

 

Because that goes to character....and unless someone makes signifigant efforts to change their character, it is often difficult to understand why the expectations of treatment at the end of an affair are so different.

 

If he tells lies to his spouse to be with you, why expect he won't tell lies to you when caught?

[bentnotbroken]

No, just that she is a human being.

 

You gaslighted your OW...you stated this in your first post on this thread. If she did something deplorable to you after that, then what would you expect after the treatment/gaslighting/abuse towards her?

I am not condoning if OW did do something uncool to you or your family, that is never ok...IMO you just suck it up and move on (meaning OW in this case).

 

This is how I feel...OW has nothing to do with W, her issue is with you, on the other hand you have issue with two people as you are the common denominator.

 

 

Wouldn't having sex with him qualify as uncool to his family? Double Dang!