The Bs and The AP are more different tha you may think.

[BB07]

Who ever said that a person in the midst of an affair is thinking of anything but thier own nether regions? And my actions were deplorable, the person I had to make up for it for was my wife.

 

Oh please.........so your affair was only about sex uh??? Did your OW know this or did you lead her to assume that it was more?

 

I will agree with it being the person you have to make it up to is your wife, but since you found it OK at one time or another to stick your body parts into this other woman, then you obviously thought she wasn't beneath you at one point in time, so you owe her respect and decency, after all you shared body parts with her, right? Respect and decency means not putting it all off on her, own your own crap!

[Summer Breeze]

As a former WS who has been lucky enough to reconcile with my H, I totally understand and agree with this. I also do not think there is anything so terrible in the posts you have made about your affair that justifies the criticism being made of you - as if it is alright to treat the BS badly but not the AP . I know that I have posted on this site about how I lied to the ex-OM through omission - I let him believe my marriage was unhappy when it was not. I admit I was a selfish, heartless cake-eater who only really looked out for myself for years.

 

Unfortunately many believe that the WS does not lie to the AP inspite of their very obvious capacity to do so) - after all, they know the WS so well that they would be able to tell. This shows a complete disregard for the BS and their knowledge of the WS for a far longer period and in a full-time committed relationship.

 

Not all WS lie to the AP. Sometimes it isn't necessary. It's part of the dynamics of each individual relationship.

 

No one here is saying he should have treated his W poorly but why treat the woman he chose to cheat with like dirt either? It sounds like there are a lot of extenuating circumstances but many of his comments dripped venom to his OW. When that happens it's a reflection of him as a person not the OW. Again extenuating circumstances. I know that some of his comments were put out there and had little explanation and I for one jumped on them.

[thomasb]

Summer, the people who continue the going back and forth thing has always puzzled me also. I can't imagine inflicting that much emotional distress on everyone involved, especially the children. My wifes' four boys are like my own. I wouldn't be able to do that.

[Summer Breeze]

You're SERIOUSLY going to try to compare something that happened oceans and countries away YEARS before the advent of the internet and even TV which wasn't seen first hand until it was brought to light with an A partner being involved for years and years and years and hearing face to face the same old song and dance and STILL allowing themselves to think they'll ever be the "chosen one?"

 

Guess what. There were newspapers and organizations that monitored human rights. Heard of the Red Cross? There were movies too. Heard of the Movietone films? Yes I am saying that we believe what we want to believe and we see what we want to see. Propoganda on an international level or a personal level accomplishes the same thing. Humans on an international level or on a personal level want to see and hear what they want to see and hear. No one WANTS to see the bad.

[anne1707]

No one here is saying he should have treated his W poorly but why treat the woman he chose to cheat with like dirt either?

 

So do you think it is worse to treat the OW/OM like dirt than it is to treat the BS in that way?

 

After all, the WS chose to marry the BS (a far stronger commitment than an affair)

[Summer Breeze]

Summer, the people who continue the going back and forth thing has always puzzled me also. I can't imagine inflicting that much emotional distress on everyone involved, especially the children. My wifes' four boys are like my own. I wouldn't be able to do that.

 

As I said you stepped up and did the right thing. I'm chuffed you did it without being outed as well. Those boys are lucky as is your wife. I'm sure she's had moments she's wondered but I bet she realizes it now.

[thomasb]

BB07, yes. It started with drunken sex.

[thomasb]

Why would you wish more pain on my wife than having to tell her myself? She did nothing to cause this.

[BB07]

Wow, sure seems like some people here just want to hear how much I luvvvvved OW. But I never lied to her about that and I'm not starting now!

 

I call BS on that, I don't recall reading that at all.

 

This is what I see Thomas, I think you were a selfish ass and you had an affair, you lied, you cheated, and you used two people, your wife and the OW.

 

Now I think you are doing the right thing because you realized your mistake and you realized you loved your wife and you are doing your best to rectify your mistake, and that is great.

 

The problem I have with it, is how you feel the need to back hand your OW, and degrade her and you seem to be blaming her more than yourself. Like I said before, own your crap, don't put it all off on her. You give the impression that you are so much better than her now, because you have saw the light, but truth is.........you aren't better than her.

[Summer Breeze]

So do you think it is worse to treat the OW/OM like dirt than it is to treat the BS in that way?

 

After all, the WS chose to marry the BS (a far stronger commitment than an affair)

 

Ok. In what you quoted from me it says he shouldn't treat the BS like dirt. Where is the confusion? The WS has played both sides against the middle. He's treated the BS like dirt does it make it better to treat the AP the same way? No.

 

Don't get me started on the commitment issue. A bigger commitment. In my eyes that is such a mockery of commitment. I love you honey so we'll be married and then I'll start seeing someone else. I'll lie to you and gaslight you and enjoy myself every second I can possibly squeeze out of our relationship to spend with the AP. Commitment. None. When I ended my M to my ExH because of his adultery I told him his commitment was worth nothing and it wasn't even worth that much to me. We had history and it meant nothing to me because his commitment meant nothing to him. I'm happy others can get past it but I will never ever believe it to be real.

[donnamaybe]

Not all WS lie to the AP. Sometimes it isn't necessary. It's part of the dynamics of each individual relationship.

Oh, sure. We've all seen situations where the AP doesn't WANT the MM/MW full time. Of course, in THOSE situations, lying isn't necessary. But when the AP DOES want their MM/MW full time, and all the MM/MW wants is a part time lover, they WILL lie - and very convincingly.

[Summer Breeze]

Well THAT should be quite comforting to all the A partners waiting around.

 

Huh? You really should try and make your quips at least remotely witty.

[Summer Breeze]

Oh, sure. We've all seen situations where the AP doesn't WANT the MM/MW full time. Of course, in THOSE situations, lying isn't necessary. But when the AP DOES want their MM/MW full time, and all the MM/MW wants is a part time lover, they WILL lie - and very convincingly.

 

And I could not agree with you more on this. Each situation is different. Thomas B is the perfect example of one who felt the need to lie. He knew she wanted more and he did what he needed to allow her to believe it.

 

Sometimes it can be a very deep meaningful A. Mine was. For circumstances revolving around an 'ill' child he was never going to leave home. I knew it from the start. He had no reason to lie to me. We fell very much in love but it had nowhere to go. I loved him and enjoyed my time with him tremendously. I would have preferred to have had him as I did than not at all. I wanted more and when that want was more than my contentment it ended. JJ is in much the same situation. If things get to a point the bad outweighs the good it'll end. He has no reason to lie to her.

[2sure]

greengoddess...

 

right on the money. With both. As an OW, what you describe is pretty much the experience I had each time I was OW , with the exception being that i did not expect more from the relationship than it was. As BS, exactly, I was shocked that someone I knew so intimately could actually have a double life so removed from the one we shared.

[anne1707]

Ok. In what you quoted from me it says he shouldn't treat the BS like dirt. Where is the confusion? The WS has played both sides against the middle. He's treated the BS like dirt does it make it better to treat the AP the same way? No.

 

Don't get me started on the commitment issue. A bigger commitment. In my eyes that is such a mockery of commitment. I love you honey so we'll be married and then I'll start seeing someone else. I'll lie to you and gaslight you and enjoy myself every second I can possibly squeeze out of our relationship to spend with the AP. Commitment. None. When I ended my M to my ExH because of his adultery I told him his commitment was worth nothing and it wasn't even worth that much to me. We had history and it meant nothing to me because his commitment meant nothing to him. I'm happy others can get past it but I will never ever believe it to be real.

 

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here...

 

Ideally nobody should be treated that badly. As someone who did treat two people very badly for a number of years, I now very much regret how I behaved. However the person I feel this for most is my H who I have reconciled with and was also the one person in all that mess who was innocent (in there been an affair although not in his part in the problems we had in our marriage prior to that).

 

I get very frustrated by some posters on LS who seem to think that the WS should treat the AP better than the BS. In TB's posts he referred to the efforts he made for his wife in choosing cards etc - I totally get that. I never wanted to leave my H. Overall he was my priority but I wanted more - so selfish and unfair. Thankfully I am not that person any more.

[donnamaybe]

Huh? You really should try and make your quips at least remotely witty.

No need. You did that FOR me.

[pureinheart]

What exactly is cowardly about admitting you have made a horrible mistake and doing everything you can to make up for it. I wonder if you would be saying this if I had thrown my wife and boys under the bus.

 

Either you are completely misinterpreting (innocently) what we are saying, or you are choosing to gaslight here also.

 

The majority of WS (on LS) don't throw their AP under the bus. They take responsibility for both P...BS and AP. There is an understanding that they messed up with both.

 

No one here is condemning you for having the A, or for choosing your W. What is in question is your complete 'hatred?' for exOW...you chose to bring her into your life.

[donnamaybe]

JJ is in much the same situation. If things get to a point the bad outweighs the good it'll end. He has no reason to lie to her.

I beg to differ, if your MM told you from the get go that he would never leave his W. HER MM is dangling the possibility in front of her like the proverbial carrot.

[Summer Breeze]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here...

 

Ideally nobody should be treated that badly. As someone who did treat two people very badly for a number of years, I now very much regret how I behaved. However the person I feel this for most is my H who I have reconciled with and was also the one person in all that mess who was innocent (in there been an affair although not in his part in the problems we had in our marriage prior to that).

 

I get very frustrated by some posters on LS who seem to think that the WS should treat the AP better than the BS. In TB's posts he referred to the efforts he made for his wife in choosing cards etc - I totally get that. I never wanted to leave my H. Overall he was my priority but I wanted more - so selfish and unfair. Thankfully I am not that person any more.

 

I agree with you that the primary focus should be the BS who is now being reconciled with, for sure. If the decision is made to reconcile that should be 100% of the priority. However in making something a priority and turning away from something else it shouldn't mean demeaning what you previously valued. Definitely don't flaunt it in the BS face and deal with things appropriately for sure but don't come onto a forum and make it appear that all vitriol is aimed at that person. Not 1 person said the W should have been treated poorly, just the opposite. It's just that the OW shouldn't be either. End it. Stop contact. Focus on what you need to focus on. Don't make it sound to a room full of strangers that the OW is the devil incarnate. No more than I would have stood for my exH to say a bad thing about his OW or my exMM to have said a bad thing about his W. There was a reason each was turned to and there should be some respect for that. Not meaning anything should be flaunted but it shouldn't be demeaned either.

 

I love your posts and I admire your strength. I don't know how you've managed it but you done good kid.

[Summer Breeze]

I beg to differ, if your MM told you from the get go that he would never leave his W. HER MM is dangling the possibility in front of her like the proverbial carrot.

 

Sorry. I meant it was much the same that she knows the situation and isn't lied to. He is telling her what his priorities are now. She appears to be trying to do her best to build a relationship he wants to be in full time. She knows the truth of the situation. The similarity is that she is aware of why he won't go now and her posts show that she's aware he may never go. The choice is always hers and as she's said if it gets to the point the bad outweighs the good her choice may well change. That's what I meant about the similarities. Sorry!

[anne1707]

I love your posts and I admire your strength. I don't know how you've managed it but you done good kid.

 

Thank you - I managed it through having a fabulous husband who had the strength and love to give me another chance. No easy ride but over 2 years on, we are doing good

[Summer Breeze]

No need. You did that FOR me.

 

Huh? I must be blonder than I thought.

 

I think I need ice cream.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Summer Breeze
I needed to mention ice cream

[pureinheart]

Maybe there is a misunderstanding here...

 

Ideally nobody should be treated that badly. As someone who did treat two people very badly for a number of years, I now very much regret how I behaved. However the person I feel this for most is my H who I have reconciled with and was also the one person in all that mess who was innocent (in there been an affair although not in his part in the problems we had in our marriage prior to that).

 

I get very frustrated by some posters on LS who seem to think that the WS should treat the AP better than the BS. In TB's posts he referred to the efforts he made for his wife in choosing cards etc - I totally get that. I never wanted to leave my H. Overall he was my priority but I wanted more - so selfish and unfair. Thankfully I am not that person any more.

 

Anne, the only one I ever read you to condemn was yourself, I never heard you talk badly of AP, and I even hate to bring up AP in your case because it is sooooo in the past..

 

Possibly, there is a lack of communication here. Possibly it would have been taken/understood a bit better had TYB stated that he screwed up without sounding cruel concerning OW. He makes exOW sound soooo beneath him...very arrogant concerning OW.

[2sure]

You know, I have always felt that both BS and OW when they are lied to by MM....are both his victims. But I no longer think they have that in common.

 

I have to tell you, more and more, from my own experience as OW and everything Ive read here...when a MM (or MW ) tells lies to their AP...OW is not his victim, she is a victim only of herself.

 

Its one thing to be told lies. But to accept them and believe them from a married person having an affair? Come on. I'm just not buying it anymore. Further, I think this is proved over and over again by OW who decide to stop having affairs. Those that recover dont recover until they stop blaming MM, BS, etc. and simply acknowledge their own WTF.

 

Obviously I am not referring in anyway to those here who have no expectations or hopes of their affairs other than what they currently have. Or to those who hear the lies but dont believe them .

[thomasb]

Summer, I did exactly that. Told her it was done. Cut off contact. Gave notice at the job place. ETC. She was the one who continued trying to contact me, attacking my wife, having her family members stalk us. Repeated phone calls, flat tires, drive bys, you name it we suffered through it. She once even went to my then 8 year old stepsons bus stop to tell him she was going to be his new mama! What exactly do you think I should have done different... other than not having the affair in the first place. That was spilt milk.