In The Green Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.
a_woman Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society. In case anyone needed proof that vegans are weirdos, here it is.
In The Green Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 In case anyone needed proof that vegans are weirdos, here it is. Your attempt to point a finger fails, I am not a vegan. The quote happens to be a fave quote of mine as it can be applied to many situations. Thank you for making it even more relevant.
TheBigQuestion Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Having been friends with numerous vegans and vegetarians over the years, I can confidently say that they are, on the average, far more educated about eating, nutrition, and its affects on animals and the environment than your average omnivore. Only an idiot would deny that factory farming is extraordinarily harmful to the environment. Likewise, only an idiot would deny that the animals are treated inhumanely while they are alive. These are indisputable facts. I'm not even remotely a vegetarian, but 99 times out of 100, non vegetarians/vegans literally have no clue what they are talking about, and are generally ignorant of the realities about what goes into what they are eating. Likewise, anyone who has actually been involved with people who identify as vegan know that they generally get far more grief for their eating habits and personal beliefs than they give grief to meat-eaters. There was a video posted on the internet a few weeks back of someone throwing helpless puppies into a river, thus drowning them. My facebook feed was flooded with cries of outrage. The first thing I thought was "If these people are this concerned about puppies being drowned, they probably have no business eating meat." Yet, I'm pretty sure each and everyone of them do.
Feelin Frisky Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 How do we know that plants aren't as or more intelligent than animals. Plants cooperate with bugs. We're like eww.
theBrokenMuse Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 There was a video posted on the internet a few weeks back of someone throwing helpless puppies into a river, thus drowning them. My facebook feed was flooded with cries of outrage. The first thing I thought was "If these people are this concerned about puppies being drowned, they probably have no business eating meat." They would only be hypocrites if eating dog meat were all the rage here in the western world. It's no big shocker that people would care about animals chosen to be human companions and not animals we designate as food. As omnivores we have the mechanism to be able to disassociate from our prey in order to devour them.
Author loverofloveandstuff Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 I am ina similar predicament. I love steak, but I do not eat: sugar or any chemicals that are man made. Under any circumstances. Ever. Another thing, is that because I work at Cafe's part part time, I ONLY eat out if I HAVE to; I would only do it if the other person suggested it. This isbecause I know the higeine practices in the Cafe's I have worked in, and do not want to eat of their plates for health reasons. I have learnt that it is all about how you go about it; I do not make a big deal out of the things I will not eat, and I do not preach or feel better then others, or try to lecture others on their food choices. I have never had an issue with the way in which I eat. Personally, I know that MY body is designed to eat meat; I dream of steak ( literally) without animals. I was a raw vegan for about a year, and it was nto right for my body. Moreover, I found the other raw vegans I knew to be flakey and a little... not " all there" Not being nasty, but I genuinly felt that their bodies were not getting the meat that they needed, and as a result their bodies were nto functioning optimally, which made them just.... off. I would not be turned ofrf a vegan if I liked being around them for who they were, however; I logically feel that if a person goes without any meat for many years and eats a very strict raw vegan diet, that because their bodies are lacking things, they will act in ways that could put a person off. How can one act sane, rational, and like a good version of themselves, if their bodies are not functioning properly because they eat NO meatm eggs, or dairy? Then again, our bodies are from different ancestory, and some people throughout ecvolution may have survived and adapted to little or no meat, which could explain why some people can act and feel normally without much,m or any meat. I know I need meat though. I do not even need much, even a small steak twice a week is enough. I know this may come as a big surprise to you, but I am not totally insane and irrational because I eat a vegan diet . Wow, incredible I know. Oh yeah, and I'm not horribly mean and I don't act like a 'bad' version of myself either. Actually, I consider myself to be pretty happy and bubbly – with or without meat. As long as we are getting the dietary requirements we need (which we can get from other sources than the ones you mentioned), our health is not going to deteriorate because we are not getting sufficient nutrients. Also, you speak as if vegans are the only ones who could possibly not get the nutrients they need. Can you honestly say that you get 3-5 servings of vegetables everyday and 2-4 servings of fruit everyday? Maybe you do, I don’t know. But I know that there are a hell of a lot of people who don’t and they are not insane or irrational by any means.
Author loverofloveandstuff Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_southeast_valley/mesa/109-year-old-mesa-man-credits-health-to-5-foods How great does this guy look?! He's 109 but looks as if he could be 60.
Sphere Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_southeast_valley/mesa/109-year-old-mesa-man-credits-health-to-5-foods How great does this guy look?! He's 109 but looks as if he could be 60. He's got good genes and I don't want to live beyond fifty. I doubt it has anything to do with vegetarianism.
TheBigQuestion Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 They would only be hypocrites if eating dog meat were all the rage here in the western world. It's no big shocker that people would care about animals chosen to be human companions and not animals we designate as food. As omnivores we have the mechanism to be able to disassociate from our prey in order to devour them. An animal's inherent value is not determined by whether or not we keep them as pets. If you're getting queasy about puppies getting drowned, you ought to be equally outraged at the entire veal industry. So while I certainly didn't like the idea of puppies getting drowned, I'm smart enough to not work myself into a self-righteous tizzy about it.
Author loverofloveandstuff Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 He's got good genes and I don't want to live beyond fifty. I doubt it has anything to do with vegetarianism. I'm not trying to say it is. I just want to say that it's possible to be healthy and vegetarian/vegan. Just for the record, I'm not following a vegan diet anymore. I like being vegan but I love people and veganism negatively effects too many of my relationships.
MrHalfJack Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 It would be a big deal breaker for me, but I'm kinda a foodie, and I want to share that experience with my partner without being so severely limited. Same goes for teetotalers... or even people who just don't like wine. you wouldn't be SEVERELY LIMITED. there are plenty of options for vegans....
Sphere Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 I'm not trying to say it is. I just want to say that it's possible to be healthy and vegetarian/vegan. Just for the record, I'm not following a vegan diet anymore. I like being vegan but I love people and veganism negatively effects too many of my relationships. Why are you giving up something you believe in? Never compromise your beliefs. And not every man in this world will be against Vegetarianism or Veganism. I am against neither and could happily turn Vegetarian for my partner (at least when at home) providing I wasn't fed pompous lectures.
Rorschach Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 you wouldn't be SEVERELY LIMITED. there are plenty of options for vegans.... Maybe in california, not around here. Maybe you could claim there are options for vegetarians, but not vegans.
Author loverofloveandstuff Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 Why are you giving up something you believe in? Never compromise your beliefs. And not every man in this world will be against Vegetarianism or Veganism. I am against neither and could happily turn Vegetarian for my partner (at least when at home) providing I wasn't fed pompous lectures. Not sure if you read my first post and other posts in this thread, but being vegan isn't really that big of an issue for me. It's not something I feel terribly strongly about and it was never really a moral decision. It was a health choice more than anything. I would never give up something that I felt morally passionate about. But at this point, it feels like there are more cons than pros. It's not just about dating either. Although I have noticed negative responses from men, I've never been dismissed because of it. It's just how it has affected my social life as a whole. I will stick to a vegan diet as much as possible, but when I go to a friend's gathering for dinner or a social event where food is being served, I'd rather not be so difficult.
theBrokenMuse Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 An animal's inherent value is not determined by whether or not we keep them as pets. If you're getting queasy about puppies getting drowned, you ought to be equally outraged at the entire veal industry. So while I certainly didn't like the idea of puppies getting drowned, I'm smart enough to not work myself into a self-righteous tizzy about it. Way to totally not get the point. People are bound to empathize more with that which they feel some sort of connection to as opposed to something they see as food because they can't see it as food unless they disassociate from it emotionally.
Author loverofloveandstuff Posted September 21, 2010 Author Posted September 21, 2010 Sphere - By the way, it's nice to hear that you would turn vegan/vegetarian for a partner! Most of my guy friends would never turn down a meaty steak or a hamburger. Let alone give them up.
Rorschach Posted September 21, 2010 Posted September 21, 2010 Here's the trick with animals. Every time you go for a walk you probably stepped on an ant, if every living creature is equally important that you should feel terrible! How many dead bugs have you found in the rear windshield of your car? Or splattered on the front windshield? Stuck in the air filter? The fact of the matter is that you can't help but kill insects when you move around, now those are animals too, but you don't value them on the same level as cows, dogs, or monkeys. It's just the way the world works. Some people draw the line between animals they care about vs animals they don't care about at different points. It's just an opinion matter and it doesn't make you a better (or worse) person if you have a different opinion than somebody else. Me personally, I want to have many different pets, I love animals. I love cats, ferrets, dogs (to a lesser extent). But as much as I love my pets, if somebody served me cat, I would eat it without batting an eye or caring AT ALL. This is just the way I work. This does not make me a bad person, it just means I have a different opinion than you.
MrHalfJack Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 I've never met a vegan athlete or a vegan bodybuilder. I'm sure they exist... they just can't compete on a professional level. Vegan Athlete - Summary list of vegan/vegetarian Anyone who may be skeptical about the strength, endurance and general health of people choosing a vegetarian diet might consider these vegetarian athletes: Ridgely Abele Winner of eight national championships in karate Surya Bonaly Olympic figure skating champion Brendan Brazier Professional Ironman triathlete Peter Burwash Davis Cup winner and professional tennis star Andreas Cahling Swedish champion bodybuilder, Olympic gold medallist in the ski jump Chris Campbell Olympic wrestling champion Nicky Cole First woman to walk to the North Pole Ruth Heidrich Six-time Ironwoman, USA track and field Master's champion Keith Holmes World-champion middleweight boxer Desmond Howard Professional football star, Heisman trophy winner Peter Hussing European super heavy-weight boxing champion Scott Jurek Ultramarathoner, Course Record Holder at Badwater and Western States [sIZE=2]Wiki[/sIZE] Audio interview with Animal Voices: MP3 Debbie Lawrence World record holder, women's 5K racewalk Sixto Linares World record holder, 24-hour triathlon Cheryl Marek and Estelle Gray World record holders, cross-country tandem cycling Ingra Manecki World champion discus thrower Bill Manetti Power-lifting champion Ben Matthews U.S. Master's marathon champion Dan Millman World champion gymnast Martina Navratilova Champion tennis player Paavo Nurmi Long-distance runner, winner of nine Olympic medals and 20 world records Bill Pearl Four-time Mr. Universe Bill Pickering World record-holding swimmer Stan Price World weightlifting record holder, bench press Murray Rose Swimmer, winner of many Olympic gold medals and world records Dave Scott Six-time winner of the Ironman triathlon Art Still Buffalo Bills and Kansas City Chiefs MVP defensive end, Kansas City Chiefs Hall of Fame Jane Wetzel U.S. National marathon champion Charlene Wong Williams Olympic champion figure skater
MrHalfJack Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 Great post! I am a vegetarian because I do not agree with factory farming. I probably eat vegan 80% of the time. I have a cheese addiction. I am trying to eliminate dairy products. http://www.vegan-nutritionista.com/vegan-cheese.html
MrHalfJack Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 I think people have made a bigger deal out of this then necessary. I was a vegetarian for five years before giving it up and to be honest, if I was dating a vegetarian I'd probably go back to being vegetarian. I couldn't do the Vegan thing though, no cream cakes and Yoghurt? No.... http://www.livestrong.com/article/216709-vegan-alternatives-to-yogurt/ http://www.veganfamily.co.uk/cakes.html
Dazzel Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 To be honest, it would turn me off at first. But it sorta depends on the reason why. The ones that go really nuts over the prospect of eating any animal, like it's evil, would be a no-go. If they are doing it for health reasons, the maybe it wouldn't be so bad. But from personal experience, it seems most vegans are hardcore animal rights people, whereas vegetarians are more leniant. I can understand why some abandon eating meat. There are a lot of mistreatment of animals in the meat market. I've seen several documentaries on how they treat cows, pigs, and chickens and some of the things are awful. I'm not even gonna mention the things they do to their livestock in China.... However, I love meat and I can't abandon it. Also, I have canine teeth so I know that also means I was meant to eat meat. I wouldnl't wanna be with someone who tries to get me to stop eating meat, because that simply will never happen.
MrHalfJack Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 Personally, I know that MY body is designed to eat meat; I dream of steak ( literally) without animals. I was a raw vegan for about a year, and it was nto right for my body. Moreover, I found the other raw vegans I knew to be flakey and a little... not " all there" Not being nasty, but I genuinly felt that their bodies were not getting the meat that they needed, and as a result their bodies were nto functioning optimally, which made them just.... off. I would not be turned ofrf a vegan if I liked being around them for who they were, however; I logically feel that if a person goes without any meat for many years and eats a very strict raw vegan diet, that because their bodies are lacking things, they will act in ways that could put a person off. How can one act sane, rational, and like a good version of themselves, if their bodies are not functioning properly because they eat NO meatm eggs, or dairy? Then again, our bodies are from different ancestory, and some people throughout ecvolution may have survived and adapted to little or no meat, which could explain why some people can act and feel normally without much,m or any meat. I know I need meat though. I do not even need much, even a small steak twice a week is enough. http://hubpages.com/hub/not-created-to-eat-meat
Rorschach Posted September 22, 2010 Posted September 22, 2010 Mrhalfjack, intended or not you're reallying coming across as the classic 'I believe you are a terrible person for eating meat and now I intend to prove to you how bad you are' vegan. It's not about to change anybody's mind and you're just supporting negative stereotypes at this point.
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