Who’s responsible?

[pureinheart]

So if the BS stays after D-day, would that be enabling?

 

Most definitely

[someday]

Enabling what?

[donnamaybe]

So if the BS stays after D-day, would that be enabling?

Only if he continues with the A and she knows about it. However, as we've seen on LS, there are plenty of examples of repentant cheaters who have changed their ways. Hence, no enabling.

[2sure]

I believe that we are all responsible and accountable for our own actions.

 

I actually agree with your entire original post. Certainly everyone involved is responsible for their own decisions. I dont see that argued much here...but I am wondering what you mean by accountable??

 

To me, being accountable for something means that you will own it. That you will not deny your actions, that you will admit to them honestly, that you will openly discuss your decisions. I think that if there is any debate here regarding who gets blamed for what during infidelity...it encompasses the conversation about Accountability. We are all responsible for own decisions of course....but what is the accountability you refer to?

[Owl]

So if the BS stays after D-day, would that be enabling?

 

If they just sit there and accept it, and do nothing to try to change the situation...then yes. I would see that as "enabling" it.

 

If they stay, set boundaries, enforce limits, work to rebuild communication, and otherwise try to repair/rebuild the marriage...that's not enabling.

[someday]

Accountable: Answerable, responsible, explicable. Had to look it up to make sure I used the correct word, yup, I did.

 

Yes, we are all *accountable* for our actions. IMO if one is going to do something then one should have put enough effort of thought into that something to know why they are doing it. I would hope that people really think about the ‘whys’ before they do anything.

 

I guess I’m still trying to figure myself out. I can say I love my friend and he loves me…but is that a good enough reason to start an A? I don’t think so, and that’s because of the kids first and my promise to my H second. Isn’t that awful? My H takes second on this decision…when he probably should be my first priority. Sometimes he is, but mostly it’s all my kids.

[JamesM]

Everyone is responsible for his or her choicees, and we must realize that our choices will have repercussions.

 

So...the man who lives in a sexless marriage has four choices: live with it, cheat, fix it, or divorce. Sometimes he has tried to live with it and also fix it, and divorce seems never an option. He may not desire to cheat, but because his wife made a choice, he feels more tempted to choose the affair and does. he made a choice, but his circumstances made this choice "acceptable."

 

The woman who withholds sex from her husband makes a choice to not honor her part of the bargain. Fidelity goes both ways. We must keep sex with our partner only, and we must give sex to our partner only. Straying outside of the marriage or withholding sex cheats our partner and breaks the vow. As a result, withholding sex will have consequences and one major consequence is a spouse who feels frustrated enough to cheat.

 

The person who is the AP has a choice. However, it is quite possible that he or she may not know that the other person is married until long after the relationship begins. Then the choice to leave is not an easy one. At that point love has entered and leaving for the feelings of the BS may not be enough.

 

Decisions lead to choices. If a person cheats because his partner withholds sex, then choices were made by BOTH people. The affair becomes the responsibility of BOTH people. One chose to cheat as a result of one withholding sex. Neither choice is good. However, the person who chose to cheat would have actually caused the other person to withhold sex before he chose to cheat...so it becomes a circle.

[donnamaybe]

Things still not going well, James? If so, that sucks. Your posts seem to have taken a decided turn as of late.

 

I don't think I could handle it - the lack of intimacy. It goes way beyond the mere sexual release. Hell, we can get that all by ourselves.

[lilbunny]

When bad things happen, why is it so important for us to find someone to blame? The culture of blame is creeping into all aspects of our lives, the compensation culture is alive and well and growing apace in the UK.

What does it matter who we blame for things, who we find to be at fault? Pointing the finger isn't going to make anyone feel remorse if they don't feel it anyway. People who genuinely care about others probably 'blame' themselves anyway and those who couldn't care less are hardly likely to start beating themselves up about it because somebody else points out it was their fault.

 

Sometimes generally good people make bad choices. Sometimes people do very wrong things for the right reasons. Sometimes people get hurt. Sometimes people care about that. sometimes they don't. This is life. I very much doubt having someone to hold responsible for suffering does anything to relieve it.

 

There will always be a group who want to blame the OM/OW, blame the WS, blame both, blame the BS, next door's cat, whoever. Why is it so important? Ah, but if we have blame, I suppose we can have punishment or revenge and that always makes people feel a little bit better, doesn't it...?

[someday]

and what if there's all sorts of sex but not much love? no there IS plenty of love but not satisfying love (?)....I suppose it's the same thing when we bottom line it.

 

So the W is in a M that is lacking, her H is unwilling/unable to truly address the issues...and now years later it's just another day in and another day out. Where's the passion? gone. long gone.

 

The kids are needing both of us, I need the kids- H needs the kids....and what do we have? not much.

 

So there’s the ray of sunshine...the day breaks wide open when I see my friend smile...and I can't have it. I won't have it. It's not in the best interest of my children. So I only get to see that smile...only sometimes...and each time it messes me up because I *want* more....yet, can't- won't....

 

so I go about my business....every day....and make my life happy for myself...because at the end of the day I now realize that no one- least of all my H- is going to do this for me.

[donnamaybe]

When bad things happen, why is it so important for us to find someone to blame? The culture of blame is creeping into all aspects of our lives, the compensation culture is alive and well and growing apace in the UK.

What does it matter who we blame for things, who we find to be at fault? Pointing the finger isn't going to make anyone feel remorse if they don't feel it anyway. People who genuinely care about others probably 'blame' themselves anyway and those who couldn't care less are hardly likely to start beating themselves up about it because somebody else points out it was their fault.

 

Sometimes generally good people make bad choices. Sometimes people do very wrong things for the right reasons. Sometimes people get hurt. Sometimes people care about that. sometimes they don't. This is life. I very much doubt having someone to hold responsible for suffering does anything to relieve it.

 

There will always be a group who want to blame the OM/OW, blame the WS, blame both, blame the BS, next door's cat, whoever. Why is it so important? Ah, but if we have blame, I suppose we can have punishment or revenge and that always makes people feel a little bit better, doesn't it...?

If people recognize their OWN wrongdoings, perhaps they'll try NOT to do them again. That's called "remorse."

[someday]

lilbunny, I agree with you. I think we (I know me) get tangled up in our thinking and to sort things out in our minds we need to find all the various 'things' proper places in our minds. Understand?

 

I think that what the whole blame thing is about is to try to shame people into doing the right thing....but if they truly don't feel they are doing wrong then the whole argument falls on deaf ears.

[2sure]

I guess I’m still trying to figure myself out. I can say I love my friend and he loves me…but is that a good enough reason to start an A? I don’t think so, and that’s because of the kids first and my promise to my H second. Isn’t that awful? My H takes second on this decision…when he probably should be my first priority. Sometimes he is, but mostly it’s all my kids.

 

Wow. Yeah, I get that. And it gave me a thought/question that may not be completely on topic but since YOU, the OP bring it up...

 

My daughter always comes first for me as well. And I KNOW from seeing examples of healthy families that the parents as a couple need to come first...before the kids. Its good for the kids to see that for numerous reasons and good to maintain the health, intimacy, and teamwork that is marriage. So..yeah, like you ...I get that completely. But I dont do it, never have. It just doesnt work out that way for me, it would be like fighting my own nature even though I'm sure I'm not supposed to do it that way.

 

All that for this:

 

Is it possible that parents like myself, maybe like you, like a lot of couples I know...is it possible that by one or both spouses putting the kids first...that eventually we actually stop feeling like our marriage is the primary relationship...which creates distance, which leaves one or both feeling secondary, etc etc etc.

 

I feel like ...I'm seeing something here for the first time, but not sure what it is. Am I off base?

[lilbunny]

If people recognize their OWN wrongdoings, perhaps they'll try NOT to do them again. That's called "remorse."

 

I agree totally. Remorse is only a personal regret after the event. It is being sorry, it has nothing to do with finger pointing and blame.

 

If someone does not recognise that for themselves than I very much doubt anyone else blaming them will change that. If someone is hurt then I can't see how having someone to blame for that is going to make it any better.

[donnamaybe]

I agree totally. Remorse is only a personal regret after the event. It is being sorry, it has nothing to do with finger pointing and blame.

 

If someone does not recognise that for themselves than I very much doubt anyone else blaming them will change that. If someone is hurt then I can't see how having someone to blame for that is going to make it any better.

But perhaps if someone reads these threads and stops for a minute and thinks, "Hmmm... Maybe I AM a part of hurting someone," they might mull it over in their mind and choose to do things differently in the future.

 

That's what discussion is all about. Giving each other food for thought.

[lilbunny]

lilbunny, I agree with you. I think we (I know me) get tangled up in our thinking and to sort things out in our minds we need to find all the various 'things' proper places in our minds. Understand?

 

I think that what the whole blame thing is about is to try to shame people into doing the right thing....but if they truly don't feel they are doing wrong then the whole argument falls on deaf ears.

 

Yes I think I do know what you mean. If only life were that simple!

[someday]

Is it possible that parents like myself, maybe like you, like a lot of couples I know...is it possible that by one or both spouses putting the kids first...that eventually we actually stop feeling like our marriage is the primary relationship...which creates distance, which leaves one or both feeling secondary, etc etc etc.

 

Interesting, maybe...I'm going to have to think about this for a bit.

 

I think it's too easy to put 'life' ahead of our spouses....life gets in the way of everything sometimes. We feel safe with our spouses, we know they love us and we think we can just let go for a bit....because there’s SO much that needs doing...and he's always going to be there for me because he's said he would and his actions have shown me he would...and then where are we? in the middle of nowhere and lost.