tangled mess

[DeeCee]

Hi all,

 

First post here so please be gentle!

 

I have a bit of a tangled mess in my relationship I am hoping you can provide some perspective on.

 

I have been with my girlfriend for about 6 months now. We were each others first serious relationship and after a break of a number of years and a number of other relationships on both sides we have reconnected.

 

It's been great. She is so loving, attentive and kind. We spend a lot of time together, we like the same things, have the same values and just enjoy spending time together. We've hit some tension over the months as she is in the middle of resolving some property issues with her ex boyfriend. He is still emotionally as well as financially attached to her and she is trying hard to remove him completely from her life. Not pleasant but necessary and we've supported each other through it.

 

My problem is this. I have seen a handful of text messages on her phone from another guy. I saw one come through while she was in the bath and as it started with "Hi gorgeous" I then looked at the others in the string. Turns out there were four or five messages going backwards and forwards. Nothing sexual or suggestive on her part or his. It was all "How's things, what's happening with your family etc." friendly stuff. His replies were a little different. Things like, "When I get my new flat I'll invite you round for coffee. Why not buy the dress you saw and wear it to take me out etc etc. " She didn't acknowledge or reply in kind but continued with the time of day responses. I also noted that she was the one who started the conversation with a "Hi, how you doing?"

 

My problem is this. I'm annoyed that she is talking to this guy at all. He obviously is attracted to her. She hasn't reciprocated and nothing suggests physical proximity or intimacy but I'm still annoyed that they are texting.

 

I can't come out and say, I read messages on her phone because I realise that I was out of order in looking at the other messages. It automatically makes me a dickhead if I say to her, "I know you are texting some other guy."

 

I DID ask her who had text and she said it was a girl called Debbie. That bothers me significantly. She may have lied just to prevent an argument or because she was worried about what I would say/do (I have previously said I had a line in the sand with partners having friends of the oposite sex who are obviously attracted or waiting for their chance to leap) I'm just annoyed that she is lying to me. I call her on how I know and I'm causing an even bigger problem around invading her privacy.

 

She has said in the past that in her view friends of the opposite sex are fine and everything depends on the individual situation.

 

She constantly shows and tells me that she is completely committed to me. We've talked kids and marriage. We're going on holiday next week! We have plans stretching out into next year. I've met all her friends and family and they all tell me how much she loves me and cares for me.

 

Am I being a jealous jerk?

Should I say something to her about catching her in a lie?

If I do say something to her how do I do it without making the conversation all about me invading her privacy?

Do I just ignore it as being nothing important and trust that she would never overstep a mark emotionally or physicaly. Nothing in the texts indicates that she has, though he does sound like he would love it to go further.

 

The texts from him really sounded like one of those guys who would hang around and kiss ass in the hope of being thrown a bone at some point. He lives with his parents and he doesn't seem the smooth, confident type at all.

 

I really don't know how to proceed. In past relationships I would just leave or not care enough to worry about it but I really do love this girl. I want to spend the rest of my life with her in a healthy relationship and before I make a mistake I'd like some outside perspective.

 

many thanks for your help.

DeeCee

[PegNosePete]

In my opinion, lying is a worse offence than invasion of privacy. So yes you might have done wrong by looking in her phone, but she has done worse by lying to you about it. I would say confront her, and if she tries to go the invasion of privacy route, tell her this.

 

Alternatively you could play it cool, and gather more evidence. She has crossed your boundaries, which IMO is sufficient justification for further spywork.

[seibert253]

If it was just innocent banter, then she wouldn't have lied to you about who texted her. She lied because she didn't want you to know. Who cares why she lied, she did. That should say it all.

 

Here's what I would do:

I'd ask her, "whose XXXX, (his name), and why are you and he texting all the time"? Your gonna get the standard he's just a friend. BS.

Then call her out about her lying. Ask her why she told you Debbie texted her when it was really XXXX.

 

Don't let her deflect it back to you snooping on her cell phone. Tell her you did this because you love her, you knew something was up, and this confirmed it.

 

Bottom line is you need to inform her that in your opinion her conversations with this other dude are inappropriate, and you will not tolerate deceit.

She can end her "friendship" with this dude and stop lying to you, or you will end your relationship with her.

 

You need to stand your ground because if you're weak or back down, she will walk all over you.

[Bryanp]

She clearly has no problem lying to your face. If the roles were reversed do you think she would be so accepting as you have been? It is really a bad sign that she lies to you about this. It is not good.

[DeeCee]

thanks all,

 

definite food for thought. I take onboard what you are saying.

 

Am I being unreasonable here? There was nothing to suggest anything inappropriate.. nothing more than would be sent between friends. Even so, I know this guy is up for it should she ever invite him for something more. That rankles but maybe is the price of being with someone who is attractive, warm, funny and caring.

 

She is so incredibly loving and demonstrative with me. She says the most wonderful and heart warming things to me and I believe with all my heart that she loves me.

 

I think it is possible that she would lie because she was scared of losing me. I have been dogmatic and very cut and dried about this type of thing in the past. She has told me before after an argument that she believed without hesitation I would leave her and not come back. I don't think she would cheat for a second. I DO think she would lie because she didn't want to lose me.

 

Does that actually change anything? Is her motive for lying important or is the fact that she has lied the be all and end all?

 

Do we all have secrets? Things that we would not share with a partner but doesn't mean that we would cheat or hurt them or that we love them even less.

 

For example, when we first met up I also went on a date with another woman I had a mutual attraction to. I realised as I was on the date that I wanted to be with my girlfriend, that I loved her and would never see this other woman again. I would never tell her about this as it would be needless hurt and the event actually means nothing in the context of our relationship.

 

I dunno.. part of me says to be more secure and just monitor the situation. Another part of me says that if someone lies once then they will lie again.

 

I'm no doormat. I don't let stuff slide but I also try not to sweat the little stuff and keep my eye on the main prize. She constantly tells me she loves me and is devoted to me, wants kids with me and marriage etc. She isn't emotionally or physically distant at all which I would expect if she was interested in other options.

[PegNosePete]

Am I being unreasonable here? There was nothing to suggest anything inappropriate.. nothing more than would be sent between friends. Even so, I know this guy is up for it should she ever invite him for something more. That rankles but maybe is the price of being with someone who is attractive, warm, funny and caring.

That my friend, is the price of being with someone female! 90% of guys would be up for anything with any woman if they invited them! But no, you are not being unreasonable. The things he has said are inappropriate, and she has allowed him to continue saying them. She should be telling him to act appropriately, or stop contacting him. She might not be saying these things herself, but she is enabling him, and she is probably loving the attention.

 

I think it is possible that she would lie because she was scared of losing me.

Amazing how often that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Lying is worse than texting some guy. You already know this, if she'd been honest about it then I'm guessing you wouldn't even be here, right?

 

She constantly tells me she loves me and is devoted to me, wants kids with me and marriage etc. She isn't emotionally or physically distant at all which I would expect if she was interested in other options.

What she says is irrelevant. What she does is all that matters. A cheater can do all of those things you mentioned. Sometimes it's because they really do want to have their cake and eat it, and sometimes just as a smokescreen.

[DeeCee]

thanks again for taking the time to reply.

 

I'm thinking I should maybe wait until the weekend before I instigate the conversation face to face. The killer is that we are supposed to be going away for a few days. Maybe that will be a good time to have the conversation.

 

I want her to know that we can talk about this. I love her with all my heart and she shows me every day that she loves me. I don't think for a second she has cheated but I do need her to know that I am unhappy about the situation.

 

my concern is that I may be blowing this out of proportion and some harmless ego boost may not be worth my very real and important relationship. If I handle this badly or my relationship skills let me down then I may be throwing my future away needlessly. (That said, what future would it be without getting some groundrules established early?)

 

I read a really good quote recently which went along the lines of "I kiss her lips while you kiss her ass" which holds true here. I'm her partner, lover and the most important person in her life. I know this to be true. She would come away and marry me tomorrow without question. I have never felt so loved and cherished in a relationship.

 

I also have the thoughts of this woman who I mentioned earlier who has contacted me a number of times to tell me she would have liked to be with me. Nothing would ever come of it but I can see similarities in the situation looking from the outside in.

 

It's a pain because I just want things to be perfect and they aren't. I want a healthy, strong and committed relationship where we communicate freely and openly. Maybe the problem is that she isn't secure enough in our relationship to trust that she wont lose me and I'm not mature enough to just dismiss this guy as just a sad case who is hanging around in vain?

 

jeez.. my head is a mess. :-(

[PegNosePete]

my concern is that I may be blowing this out of proportion and some harmless ego boost may not be worth my very real and important relationship. If I handle this badly or my relationship skills let me down then I may be throwing my future away needlessly. (That said, what future would it be without getting some groundrules established early?)

Yes, the ego boost is mostly harmless. It's the lying that isn't. You're right, you need good ground rules to have a future together. Nip this in the bud. Good luck!

[Dexter Morgan]

 

My problem is this. I have seen a handful of text messages on her phone from another guy. I saw one come through while she was in the bath and as it started with "Hi gorgeous" I then looked at the others in the string. Turns out there were four or five messages going backwards and forwards. Nothing sexual or suggestive on her part or his. It was all "How's things, what's happening with your family etc." friendly stuff. His replies were a little different. Things like, "When I get my new flat I'll invite you round for coffee. Why not buy the dress you saw and wear it to take me out etc etc. " She didn't acknowledge or reply in kind but continued with the time of day responses. I also noted that she was the one who started the conversation with a "Hi, how you doing?"

 

My problem is this. I'm annoyed that she is talking to this guy at all. He obviously is attracted to her. She hasn't reciprocated and nothing suggests physical proximity or intimacy but I'm still annoyed that they are texting.

 

the very fact there is a guy OBVIOUSLY trying to charm her, and she is letting it happen without putting the brakes on it IS reciprocating.

 

She enjoys it and will let it continue. Texting like this is trouble....your girlfriend shouldn't be entertaining a guy that is electronically coming on to her.

 

 

I can't come out and say, I read messages on her phone because I realise that I was out of order in looking at the other messages. It automatically makes me a dickhead if I say to her, "I know you are texting some other guy."

 

if you are a dickhead for looking, then she is a female dickhead for texting other guys.

 

 

I DID ask her who had text and she said it was a girl called Debbie. That bothers me significantly.

 

she lied. I'd say you need to call her on her lie. but honestly, I wouldn't bother with a female like this. not trustworthy and is keeping her options open.

 

 

She has said in the past that in her view friends of the opposite sex are fine and everything depends on the individual situation.

 

uh...her same sex friends don't come on to her do they? big difference and if she can't see it, then she doesn't need to be anyone's girlfriend.

 

 

She constantly shows and tells me that she is completely committed to me.

 

wrong, she lied about texting guys and is enjoying their advances.

 

 

We've talked kids and marriage. We're going on holiday next week! We have plans stretching out into next year. I've met all her friends and family and they all tell me how much she loves me and cares for me.

 

Am I being a jealous jerk?

 

no, she is not respecting you. NO WAY would I be texting other women when I have a girlfriend....much less texting women that are trying to charm me like these guys are her. and she lied.

 

she is giving you reason to not be alright with what she is doing.

 

 

Should I say something to her about catching her in a lie?

 

yup...otherwise your only other alternative is to keep quiet and put up it.

 

 

If I do say something to her how do I do it without making the conversation all about me invading her privacy?

 

say her phone was out and right in front of you and you just happened to see who the text was from, and after her lying about who it was from, you checked the message next time.

 

she doesn't get to flirt with other guys, lie about it, and expect to use the "you invaded my privacy" bulls##t

 

 

Do I just ignore it as being nothing important and trust that she would never overstep a mark emotionally or physicaly.

 

no. she lied. why? because she knows she is engaging in inappropriate behavior. Otherwise she wouldn't have lied.

 

 

Nothing in the texts indicates that she has, though he does sound like he would love it to go further.

 

and thats enough. she knows this guy wants to do her...she is loving it and allowing it to continue.

 

 

I really don't know how to proceed. In past relationships I would just leave or not care enough to worry about it but I really do love this girl. I want to spend the rest of my life with her in a healthy relationship and before I make a mistake I'd like some outside perspective.

 

many thanks for your help.

DeeCee

 

I say confront her, if she gets all mad, when she is the one that lied, then thats all you need to know. Because if she gets mad, she is just mad she got caught....and thats when you tell her to get out.

[DeeCee]

I confronted her last night. She adamantly denies that it is a man and is steadfast that this is a female friend. The mans name I saw is the name of a company (which actually exists and does what she says it does) she says her female friend works for that company and so it was an easy way of differentiating between Debbies on her phone. We argued, talked, shouted, talked, hugged, spent the night together and we each laid down ground rules on what we expect from each other.

 

She wants to be with me constantly, told me time and time again that she wants us to be together forever, she told her mother that I was "everything" to her etc etc. She is a warm, caring, attentive and loving girlfriend in every way. We're going away next week together and she has constantly text this morning to tell me how much she loves me and ask me to come and stay the night again tonight.

 

I truly believe her when she says she loves me, nobody looking at other options could be this good an actor. She was genuinely distressed last night rather than angry. She looked dismayed about the argument/discussion rather than someone who had been "caught out" doing something wrong. She vows she would never do anything to jeopardise our relationship or hurt us. She went through every male friend on her phone and explained who they were and setting my mind at rest.

 

Even if this was a lie and it was a guy, I really think the message has been put across that its inappropriate and lying will not be tolerated. I can't PROVE anything without stealing the number from her phone and calling it which to be frank is a little further than I am prepared to go in this instance. Maybe if I had seen evidence of an affair or some physical contact or even emotional intimacy on her part but not in this instance.

 

I'll monitor the situation, watch out for anything that looks or feels out of the norm and take it from there. She is under no illusions where I stand after our discussion last night. I explained how men operate, how to read between the lines in messages etc and how there is no such thing as a platonic relationship between opposite sexes when one party is unattached etc. She seemed genuinely surprised by some of the things I told her men do to get close to women.

 

If she is acting or putting up a smokescreen then she truly deserves an oscar as I have never seen such emotional committment to a role! :-)

 

At worst my point is made forcefully and she understands my personal views. At best she wasn't lying and it was a female friend after all who works for this company. In which case at least it's all out in the open. If she was interested in anyone else then I believe she would be more emotionally and physically distant. She was in pieces at the thought of us splitting up and by this morning we felt closer than we ever had.

 

maybe I'm setting myself up for a fall but I really want this relationship to work and in the grand scheme of things this is a road-bump rather than a red light (in my view). She says she will do anything at all to show me how much she loves me, that I'm her world and I mean everything to her. She shows me that every minute we are together and I love her for it.

 

am I being a mug or have I laid down some important guidelines and I'm now reaping the reward in gaining even more closeness in my relationship?

[PegNosePete]

It still seems strange to me, that she would use a company name (that is also a guy's name) for a female friend. What's wrong with the traditional first letter of the surname (eg. "Debbie F" and "Debbie R")? Surely it isn't the company's main phone number since it is a mobile that Debbie uses for personal texting? I would have rung it (or got her to ring it with you present and listening) right after she gave that explanation. It just seems fishy to me.

 

Hopefully now the ground rules have been put in place and will be stuck to, whether they were or not before. Good luck.

[DeeCee]

thanks Pete,

 

I agree. The name thing was strange but it wasn't actually a mans name like John, Phil, Bill etc. It was Hestia, which to me sounded like it belonged to a man rather than a woman. She told me it is a company that deals with gas fires etc and sure enough it is. Still bizarre but there you are. It's stalemate at the moment, she says its a woman and unless I wrestle the phone from her and call the number myself or steal it and call it (when I really don't want to do either) I wont know for sure.

 

I could demand that she ring it while I am standing there "or else" but I find that to be bullying and if someone did that to me I would refuse on point of principle when I had given an explanation and the truth already. Comes a point where the other person asking for answers has to respect you as well and either trusts your response or doesn't. If they don't then where is the future anyway?

 

Some would have faith in her, some wouldn't. Some forgive affairs, lies, theft etc and some don't forgive the slightest transgression or secret. I like to think I'm somewhere in the middle, no doormat but not irrationally controlling either. I believe people have to be free to make their own choices then have to live with the consequences of those choices.

 

Her behaviour isn't that of a cheater. she isn't distant, she isn't physically or emotionally inaccessible, she doesn't have electronic comms indicating an affair, she is planning and hoping for the future. etc etc. Nothing about her says, "cheater". She is with me practically every night and I see her practically every day. It's the closest, most loving relationship I have ever known.

 

I certainly am willing to enjoy things as they are and see where life leads us. I'd be happy to listen to what others would do in my position.

 

thanks for the responses

[Space Ritual]

Please read, Young Man

 

 

When considering a relationship of any kind, practice the Rule of Threes regarding the claims and promises a person makes, and the responsibilities he or she has. One lie, one broken promise or a single neglected responsibiltiy may be a misunderstanding instead. Two may involve a serious mistake. But three lies says you're dealing with a liar, and deceit is the lynchpin of conscienceless behavior. Cut your losses and get out as soon as you can. Leaving, though it may be hard, will be easier now than later, and less costly. Do not give your money, your work, your secrets or your affection to a three-timer. Your valuable gifts will be wasted.

 

 

sorry my man but I have to chime in here. I don't visit the site often but yoru situation SCREAMS deceitful behavior on her part,

 

Come on man...she is ripping a page right out of the cheaters handbook....

[Dexter Morgan]

I confronted her last night. She adamantly denies that it is a man and is steadfast that this is a female friend.

 

so now she completely bald faced lied to you. why? because she knows what she is doing isn't right. Otherwise if she doesn't think she is doing anything wrong, she'd have admitted it and given you "he's just a friend" crap.

 

she'd be pissed if a girl was texting you trying to charm you.

 

well, you have a decision to make as far as I'm concerned.

 

its up to you, but I wouldn't invest much more into a relationship with a girl that enjoys the company, electronic or otherwise, of other men.

[jenifer1972]

Here's the thing...I don't text my GIRLFRIEND buddies calling them 'gorgeous' and telling them to "buy that dress and wear it to take me out"...so this texter is either a LESBIAN friend in love with her or another GUY. No matter how sweet and loving she appears, she is LYING to you.

 

You could call the company and ask to speak to "Debbie", and see what happens.

 

The text messages also beg the question of when she was out with this guy, because they obviously went shopping, or were on line, and she pointed out a DRESS to him. I have to say, that is kind of intimate..I cannot think of any guy friends of mine, (other than one gay friend of mine) with whom I would discuss a sexy dress and how I would look in it..This is totally OFF. What is that all about???

[meerkat stew]

I believe that it is a woman she was texting. Women I know do in fact regularly refer to each other as "gorgeous," "babe," "slut," "hottie," etc. Moreover, think about it, what are the odds that a -man- would say something like "buy that dress you saw for when you take me out?" Only a very metrosexual or gay man would say something like that in a text message. Men just don't think that way. A man might say, -wear- that black dress you wore last time, but not -buy- that dress. It's possible that some women talk about dresses they saw shopping with men who are flirting with them, but highly unlikely IME. Her story makes complete sense, especially in light of the fact that you have verified it's a company, and I've heard of lots of names, but never heard of a man named "Hestia."

 

This is just a rather humorous case of misunderstanding. Dumping her for this or continuing to spy or act suspicious would be a big mistake IMO.

[lamaman3]

Wow - don't you people have anything better to do that stir up drama in an otherwise good relationship? Honestly OP - who the hell cares if she is making polite conversation with some guy that called her gorgeous? Really...honestly, if this is the biggest concern in your life than thank god every day and night. Go take her skydiving or something exciting and fun instead of fighting over whether some unknown number has male or female genitalia.