donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 The key word is "openly". It is clear that in the case described there was no arrangement in that marriage that he could have another woman from time to time. On the contrary, he blames her for having affairs. But it's in the open NOW and she chooses to stay. In an A situation, it is open as far as at least ONE person is concerned, and would that, therefore, also be considered a "toxic" situation for THAT knowing person? Tit for tat.
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Most people don't want to be someone's fling. But cheaters are very good at convincing that you are not a fling, that you are special and that if you give them enough time, they will eventually divorce. It's called manipulation and some are so good at it, that they keep people at a string for years and several people at the same time.And that is the sad part - that the manipulation often works.
greengoddess Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 It is a deeply rooted survival technique learnt in his youth. Not easy to change. We all have our issues we are struggling with. The MM have theirs. It has nothing to do with how much they love the OW. I think this discussion is a bit off topic though. So I will just agree with Boho: Whatever helps you sleep at night... So why is it that you are saying to me whatever helps you sleep at night. What is it you are trying to say?
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 MM in love with their OW throw her under the bus and beg their wives for forgiveness all the time on Dday. That is classic knee-jerk MM behavior. It says nothing about how much or how little the MM loves his OW. All it says is that the MM is not ready to leave his marriage, but that is no news, if he was he wouldn't be having the affair.It also, at least to me, clearly states that he doesn't mind hurting his OW's feelings.
jennie-jennie Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 It also, at least to me, clearly states that he doesn't mind hurting his OW's feelings. Thank God for that, otherwise he would be lying to her just like he has being lying to his wife all along. With his OW he is okay to show his true self, however bad that is.
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 It is a deeply rooted survival technique learnt in his youth. Not easy to change. This statement makes it sound like the cheater needs someone to make excuses for his behavior.
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Thank God for that, otherwise he would be lying to her just like he has being lying to his wife all along. With his OW he is okay to show his true self, however bad that is.And, quite sadly, many accept the behaviors and the lack of empathy. The BS in this situation now KNOWS about the A's. Yes, she has accepted them, but she actually gets something in return. And, if I were that type of woman - to accept a man who f's around with others - I would bleed him for every penny I could spend... AND have my own A's.
greengoddess Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Thank God for that, otherwise he would be lying to her just like he has being lying to his wife all along. With his OW he is okay to show his true self, however bad that is. Jennie don't you see that that simply means he can tell and do anything to his ow because she will accept him no matter what? I honestly do not think that is a good thing.
jennie-jennie Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 This statement makes it sound like the cheater needs someone to make excuses for his behavior. Huh? Trying to understand the psychology behind infidelity is not the same as making excuses. I guess if you want someone to blame instead of trying to understand the factors at work, you will refer to any such effort as making excuses.
jennie-jennie Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Jennie don't you see that that simply means he can tell and do anything to his ow because she will accept him no matter what? I honestly do not think that is a good thing. Who said the OW is staying? By showing her his true self, the OW is getting the true information on which to base a decision on whether to stay or not in the relationship. This is a lot more than the BS is getting, at least prior to Dday. The BS in the article is getting the truth (it seems), and still decides to stay. By knowing as much facts as possible, she gets a broader basis on which to base her decision, just like the OW does.
jennie-jennie Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 And, quite sadly, many accept the behaviors and the lack of empathy. The BS in this situation now KNOWS about the A's. Yes, she has accepted them, but she actually gets something in return. And, if I were that type of woman - to accept a man who f's around with others - I would bleed him for every penny I could spend... AND have my own A's. I could never stay in a loveless marriage. I would take all the money I could get and go and find myself a new love. I could stay with a serial cheater though (and I have) as long as I still love him and he loves me. Without love, no relationship.
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 I could never stay in a loveless marriage. I would take all the money I could get and go and find myself a new love. I could stay with a serial cheater though (and I have) as long as I still love him and he loves me. Without love, no relationship.I can't love someone I don't respect, and I would SO have no respect for a cheater.
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Huh? Trying to understand the psychology behind infidelity is not the same as making excuses. I guess if you want someone to blame instead of trying to understand the factors at work, you will refer to any such effort as making excuses.It is making excuses. The blame isn't put on the person who has their own brain which runs their own body parts. The blame is being put on some mystical "deeply rooted survival technique." So I wonder what kind of horrible events Tiger Woods went through that he had to rely on "deeply rooted survival techniques."
greengoddess Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 It is making excuses. The blame isn't put on the person who has their own brain which runs their own body parts. The blame is being put on some mystical "deeply rooted survival technique." So I wonder what kind of horrible events Tiger Woods went through that he had to rely on "deeply rooted survival techniques." An extremely controlling father and an extremely regimented and controlled childhood? Just trying to help make excuses for tiger.
jennie-jennie Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 It is making excuses. The blame isn't put on the person who has their own brain which runs their own body parts. The blame is being put on some mystical "deeply rooted survival technique." So I wonder what kind of horrible events Tiger Woods went through that he had to rely on "deeply rooted survival techniques." An extremely controlling father and an extremely regimented and controlled childhood? Just trying to help make excuses for tiger. Understanding what makes you do something does not take away your responsibility for doing something about it.
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Understanding what makes you do something does not take away your responsibility for doing something about it.Exactly. But "doing something about it" isn't cheating. That's just doing whatever the hell you want and totally disregarding how you might hurt others, just as "throwing someone under the bus" is.
jennie-jennie Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Exactly. But "doing something about it" isn't cheating. That's just doing whatever the hell you want and totally disregarding how you might hurt others, just as "throwing someone under the bus" is. Which is why the WS needs to understand the dynamic behind the infidelity, so he can do something about it. Just being blamed for doing something morally wrong allows the infidelity to continue, since it doesn't get to the roots of the issues at hand.
donnamaybe Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Which is why the WS needs to understand the dynamic behind the infidelity, so he can do something about it. Just being blamed for doing something morally wrong allows the infidelity to continue, since it doesn't get to the roots of the issues at hand. And if the cheater doesn't WANT to fix ANYTHING but has someone making excuses for his behavior, he'll continue to do whatever the heck he wants.
herenow Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Who said the OW is staying? By showing her his true self, the OW is getting the true information on which to base a decision on whether to stay or not in the relationship. This is a lot more than the BS is getting, at least prior to Dday. The BS in the article is getting the truth (it seems), and still decides to stay. By knowing as much facts as possible, she gets a broader basis on which to base her decision, just like the OW does. Right! Seems like everyone in this (the article) situation knows the truth and makes their decisions based on reality. If any one of them want to leave, they can. They all (as it appears) choose to stay. I really don't see a problem with any of it. I find it wrong when there are people involved in this type of situation that don't know the truth and are not able to make choices based on reality. As far as who the MM loves, IMO, he loves himself. No man who loves any woman would act in a way that is so hurtful. My H admits that, during his affair, he didn't love me or the OW. Had he tried to convince me that he was in love with me while having sex with an OW, I would never want his love again. Who would? He was man enough to tell the truth. He was more concerned with getting his fix than love for anyone. I'm not sure he was even capable of truly loving anyone at that point in time. IMO, when a man loves a woman, the last thing he would do is cause her pain. JMO. So, again, IMO, a MM having an affair has no real love for anyone but himself (if that).
Star_Bright Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Right! Seems like everyone in this (the article) situation knows the truth and makes their decisions based on reality. If any one of them want to leave, they can. They all (as it appears) choose to stay. I really don't see a problem with any of it. I find it wrong when there are people involved in this type of situation that don't know the truth and are not able to make choices based on reality. As far as who the MM loves, IMO, he loves himself. No man who loves any woman would act in a way that is so hurtful. My H admits that, during his affair, he didn't love me or the OW. Had he tried to convince me that he was in love with me while having sex with an OW, I would never want his love again. Who would? He was man enough to tell the truth. He was more concerned with getting his fix than love for anyone. I'm not sure he was even capable of truly loving anyone at that point in time. IMO, when a man loves a woman, the last thing he would do is cause her pain. JMO. So, again, IMO, a MM having an affair has no real love for anyone but himself (if that). Yeah, maybe the problem is that an MM having an affair doesn't love himself. At least I think that's the issue with my (ex)MM.
herenow Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 Yeah, maybe the problem is that an MM having an affair doesn't love himself. At least I think that's the issue with my (ex)MM. Can definitely be the case. But, his motives are still selfishly based. If he loved the BW or the OW, he would take care to not cause the one he loves pain. JMO
Author bohogirl Posted September 14, 2010 Author Posted September 14, 2010 Careful, FO. You are attempting to "steer the discussion in another direction." Touché
Author bohogirl Posted September 14, 2010 Author Posted September 14, 2010 I can't love someone I don't respect, and I would SO have no respect for a cheater. It took me a while to reach to the same conclusion. When you are in the middle of a full on romance it is hard to see the wood for the trees.
Author bohogirl Posted September 14, 2010 Author Posted September 14, 2010 Yeah, maybe the problem is that an MM having an affair doesn't love himself. At least I think that's the issue with my (ex)MM. Some MM love themselves too much so have affairs to prove their awesomeness. Some MM are empty so seek affirmation/love from any available source. Both are emotional vampires. IMO
jennie-jennie Posted September 14, 2010 Posted September 14, 2010 And if the cheater doesn't WANT to fix ANYTHING but has someone making excuses for his behavior, he'll continue to do whatever the heck he wants. I don't think a WS needs anyone making excuses for his behavior to be able to continue to cheat if that is what he wants.
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