Guys and Gals, Thoughts?

[jennie-jennie]

IMHO since I am familiar with both parties I pretty well think it is "lust" rather than "love." My EX is a stunning woman. A tall statuesque strawberry blonde. MM will not be leaving his wife. They have been trying to have a child with great difficulty for 3 years - (married for 5 years.) Finally it "took."

 

This changes the picture. Once you set off on the road of trying to conceive a child, you are pretty much committed to the effort. I know because I have BTDT. (Explains the 8 years between my first two children.)

[greengoddess]

This changes the picture. Once you set off on the road of trying to conceive a child, you are pretty much committed to the effort. I know because I have BTDT. (Explains the 8 years between my first two children.)

 

 

LOL why are you trying to prove that this man with a pregnant wife is in love with sharks ex? Why can it not be just lust and boredom and a little daytime playtime while the spouses are away? What makes you think these two are in love and the mm is only doing his duty to his wife? Where do you draw these conclusions from in this story?

Edited September 14, 2010 by greengoddess

[xxoo]

Jennie, I truly do sympathize with the betrayal you've suffered. I hope my post didn't come across unsympathetic. I just don't understand how you can go through all that, and still come out defending their "love". It is beyond me.

 

My belief is that a relationship, whether an affair or not, that only lasts 6 months, has not passed the test for true love. In the beginning of a relationship we do see each other with rose-colored glasses. When these glasses fall off (generally within the year) we see if it is true love or not.

 

I definitely agree. And still, love is used as a valid reason to begin an affair, even though very often it is proven not to be love--only lust and good feels of "new relationship energy". It is indefensible (in my not so humble opinion ) to act on those feelings, in secret, when your have a pregnant SO. ESPECIALLY an intentional pregnancy.

 

I'll add that, when this happened in my social circle (many years ago), the pregnant wife found out around the 7th month and the shock and stress of discovery resulted in preterm labor. The baby survived (thank goodness), but had the typical issues of prematurity. There is much more at risk than a broken heart when the BS is pregnant.

[Spark1111]

IMHO since I am familiar with both parties I pretty well think it is "lust" rather than "love." My EX is a stunning woman. A tall statuesque strawberry blonde. MM will not be leaving his wife. They have been trying to have a child with great difficulty for 3 years - (married for 5 years.) Finally it "took."

 

MM and my EX work part-time, while his pregnant wife and I worked full-time. So during their days off MM and my EX would hang out together a lot since we literally live across the street from each other - (another complication I don't think they are thinking about when the affair eventually goes south.)

 

I am 99% sure an EA began which became a PA. A mutual friend warned me she was suspicious of MM's attentions towards my EX from things he said about her - see: Freudian slips.

 

I think it selfish, selfish, selfish and hugely immature.....on both their parts.

 

Hey, the vows I took said for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health.

 

Not: Until you lose your job or your libido, whichever comes first.

 

It is no different than a spouse having a debilitating illness. Love in a long-term relationship involves some sacrifice, fercryin'outloud! Unless you prefer to act like a self-entitled adolescent.

 

And who is to say it is the wife suffering from a lower libido??????!

 

Some men suffer from a real madonna/whore complex and when the wifey gets pregnant, they LOSE their desire for her! And feel entitled to go outside the marital relationship for sexual gratification. Real mature.:rolleyes:

 

Usually they have some unresolved "mommy" issues.

 

So yes, I believe there are degrees of betrayal, and this does fall into over the top for me.

 

Similiar to John Edwards in the sense that, many politicians can and do recover their careers following an affair. But while your wife is battling cancer?

 

Even the male populace thought that was disgusting!

[xxoo]

My exSO has narcissistic tendencies, so he is not the usual MM.

 

Interesting pov.

 

From my pov, engaging in a secret affair while married is a narcissitic behavior (destructively selfish), and therefore every MM (or MW) is exhibiting at least one huge narcissitic tendency.

[jennie-jennie]

Interesting pov.

 

From my pov, engaging in a secret affair while married is a narcissitic behavior (destructively selfish), and therefore every MM (or MW) is exhibiting at least one huge narcissitic tendency.

 

I have lived the majority of my life with narcissists. I can tell you that having an affair does not a narcissist make. Neither does having an affair while your wife is pregnant. There is much more to narcissism than being "destructively selfish" as you call it.

Edited September 14, 2010 by jennie-jennie

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I have lived the majority of my life with narcissists. I can tell you that having an affair does not a narcissist make.

 

She clearly used the words narcissistic behavior and narcissistic tendency. She clearly did NOT diagnose all AP's as NPD.

[jennie-jennie]

LOL why are you trying to prove that this man with a pregnant wife is in love with sharks ex? Why can it not be just lust and boredom and a little daytime playtime while the spouses are away? What makes you think these two are in love and the mm is only doing his duty to his wife? Where do you draw these conclusions from in this story?

 

Any scenario is possible. I am in no position to prove one over the other.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, I truly do sympathize with the betrayal you've suffered. I hope my post didn't come across unsympathetic. I just don't understand how you can go through all that, and still come out defending their "love". It is beyond me.

We're good. I just believe in love. Always have. When I was the BS as well as the OW.

I definitely agree. And still, love is used as a valid reason to begin an affair, even though very often it is proven not to be love--only lust and good feels of "new relationship energy". It is indefensible (in my not so humble opinion ) to act on those feelings, in secret, when your have a pregnant SO. ESPECIALLY an intentional pregnancy.

 

I'll add that, when this happened in my social circle (many years ago), the pregnant wife found out around the 7th month and the shock and stress of discovery resulted in preterm labor. The baby survived (thank goodness), but had the typical issues of prematurity. There is much more at risk than a broken heart when the BS is pregnant.

 

The risk at hand might be exactly why the WS is not telling the BS about his newfound love. And the fact that it takes time for a love to prove itself is also a reason why affairs exist. It takes a while to know whether your newfound love is true or not. Meanwhile that does not make the love any easier to resist.

[jennie-jennie]

She clearly used the words narcissistic behavior and narcissistic tendency. She clearly did NOT diagnose all AP's as NPD.

 

Well, I think the word "narcissistic" is too strong to be used outside the context of true narcissism. My MM certainly does not have any narcissistic tendencies, and he still is having an affair, so I disagree with her assessment that engaging in an affair is narcissistic behavior. Selfish yes, destructively selfish yes, narcissistic no.

[jennie-jennie]

Well, I think the word "narcissistic" is too strong to be used outside the context of true narcissism. My MM certainly does not have any narcissistic tendencies, and he still is having an affair, so I disagree with her assessment that engaging in an affair is narcissistic behavior. Selfish yes, destructively selfish yes, narcissistic no.

 

A quick look in Onelook Dictionary gives this definition of "narcissistic":

 

"characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance".

 

This is certainly not the same as being "destructively selfish".

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Well, I think the word "narcissistic" is too strong to be used outside the context of true narcissism. My MM certainly does not have any narcissistic tendencies, and he still is having an affair, so I disagree with her assessment that engaging in an affair is narcissistic behavior. Selfish yes, destructively selfish yes, narcissistic no.

 

It's certainly your prerogative to makeup your own definition as it suits you, but that shouldn't prevent others from using common meanings for words. Perhaps we should turn this thread back over to it's rightful owner.

 

I concur with XXOO that MP's in affairs are displaying narcissistic behaviors. How sad that the joy of this woman's pregnancy was tainted by the selfishness of her H and your W.

[YellowShark]

IPerhaps we should turn this thread back over to it's rightful owner.

 

Not at all. I am happy to share my thread with everyone. Talk freely! I don't "own" it. It's a public forum!

[2sure]

A) Guys - What's your opinion of a man who is cheating on his pregnant wife?

 

Considering it is their first child I imagine he has been greatly inconvenienced by having been temporarily put aside for the first time in his life. Selfish, childish, and cruel.

 

B) Girls - What's your opinion of a woman who is cheating with a married man who's wife is pregnant?

I know it isnt right, and I usually do not have this amount of animosity toward OW but...I gotta tell you, rational or not...this for me is beyond the pale of any kind of human decency.

[xxoo]

A quick look in Onelook Dictionary gives this definition of "narcissistic":

 

"characteristic of those having an inflated idea of their own importance".

 

This is certainly not the same as being "destructively selfish".

 

I actually did a quick check of the definition of narcissism before posting, and found this wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism that includes "simple selfishness" in the definition. So I guess there are different interpretations.

 

Having an affair while your partner is pg seems narcissitic by any definition. The WS's experience of love is considered more important than the pg partner's, and baby's, safety and security during pregnancy. Seems inflated idea of own importance to me.

 

eta...still not labelling anyone as a narcissist, or having NPD. Just saying that the tendencies are apparent to me.

[jennie-jennie]

I actually did a quick check of the definition of narcissism before posting, and found this wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism that includes "simple selfishness" in the definition. So I guess there are different interpretations.

 

Having an affair while your partner is pg seems narcissitic by any definition. The WS's experience of love is considered more important than the pg partner's, and baby's, safety and security during pregnancy. Seems inflated idea of own importance to me.

 

eta...still not labelling anyone as a narcissist, or having NPD. Just saying that the tendencies are apparent to me.

 

Well, being the child of a narcissistic mother and the exSO of a narcissistic partner, I can tell you that simple selfishness does not a narcissistic tendency make, neither does having an affair while your wife is pregnant.

 

Life goes on even when your spouse is pregnant, and unfortunately that means that some MPs will fall in love with others during this time and have affairs. And some MPs will have affairs fueled by feelings of lust only as well.

[jennie-jennie]

I actually did a quick check of the definition of narcissism before posting, and found this wiki entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism that includes "simple selfishness" in the definition. So I guess there are different interpretations.

 

Having an affair while your partner is pg seems narcissitic by any definition. The WS's experience of love is considered more important than the pg partner's, and baby's, safety and security during pregnancy. Seems inflated idea of own importance to me.

 

eta...still not labelling anyone as a narcissist, or having NPD. Just saying that the tendencies are apparent to me.

 

OK, I took a quick look at your Wikipedia link. Apparently they distinguish between healthy narcissism and pathological narcissism. I have never heard that division before. So if it is healthy narcissism you are talking about, I could buy that. I think it is confusing though, because I believe most people like me think of the unhealthy kind when the word "narcissistic" is used.

[jennie-jennie]

Not at all. I am happy to share my thread with everyone. Talk freely! I don't "own" it. It's a public forum!

 

Thanks. We are trying to stay on the subject even though sidetracking just a little.

[jennie-jennie]

It's certainly your prerogative to makeup your own definition as it suits you, but that shouldn't prevent others from using common meanings for words. Perhaps we should turn this thread back over to it's rightful owner.

I concur with XXOO that MP's in affairs are displaying narcissistic behaviors. How sad that the joy of this woman's pregnancy was tainted by the selfishness of her H and your W.

 

Interestingly enough it is my opinion that many BSs who do not manage to let go of their bitterness after the affair are displaying narcissistic traits. How could he do this to me? He didn't do it to you, he did it for himself.

[xxoo]

So if it is healthy narcissism you are talking about, I could buy that. I think it is confusing though, because I believe most people like me think of the unhealthy kind when the word "narcissistic" is used.

 

I think narcissitic, like selfish, can be healthy or unhealthy. I think equating the "selfish" nature of an affair with the "selfish" nature of all romantic love is a false comparison: same word being used to describe two profoundly different kinds of selfishness.

 

You believe that having a secret affair, while married, and/or while your partner is pg, is healthy narcissism/healthy selfishness? I do not agree.

[YellowShark]

Thanks. We are trying to stay on the subject even though sidetracking just a little.

 

 

I would never take offence from people sharing their experiences - good or bad. I feel it is healthy to communicate, always have. Plus I do not "own" anything here, that's silly, ...it's a public forum for everyone to share.

 

Edited to add...

 

And I do feel if two people are going to have an affair while the wife is at home pregnant it IS seriously narcissistic of the affair partners. It's self-absorbed, feeding into their need for admiration, and displays a serious lack of empathy for others.

Edited September 14, 2010 by YellowShark

[jennie-jennie]

I would never take offence from people sharing their experiences - good or bad. I feel it is healthy to communicate, always have. Plus I do not "own" anything here, that's silly, ...it's a public forum for everyone to share.

 

Edited to add...

 

And I do feel if two people are going to have an affair while the wife is at home pregnant it IS seriously narcissistic of the affair partners. It's self-absorbed, feeding into their need for admiration, and displays a serious lack of empathy for others.

 

I too believe it is healthy to communicate even when not sharing the same perspective and/or opinions. I appreciate your posts on LS and have found them interesting.

[YellowShark]

I too believe it is healthy to communicate even when not sharing the same perspective and/or opinions.

 

And that's something I always made clear in my relationship with my EX. The line of communication was ALWAYS open. She was my partner, my love... and therefore she KNEW she came first when something was bothering her or she needed to communicate.

 

Alas after reading extensively on emotional affairs I believe that her and MM crossed the line and invested emotional energy and time with one another outside both relationships while pregnant wife and I were at work full-time during the days.

 

Often I would come home and there they were sitting on the deck together. It bugged me but I blew it off as we were all friends and both in long-term committed relationships. I didn't want to come off as controlling or jealous.

 

But now I realize since MM fancied my EX I expect he said whatever she needed to hear in order to break down her defences enough for her to move away from me, and enter into an EA/PA with him. And he did this while his wife was pregnant. What a guy huh?

 

I appreciate your posts on LS and have found them interesting.

 

That's very nice of you to say. Thanks!

[OWoman]

Ok. Here's the background. Everyone involved is in their early 40's.

 

My very recent EX-of-7-years was/is having an affair with a married man with a pregnant wife. (It is their first child - she will give birth in Sept. 2010.) So here's my question because I am having difficulty trying to wrap my head around it.

 

Therefore - (Feel free to answer either question if you wish...):

 

A) Guys - What's your opinion of a man who is cheating on his pregnant wife?

 

B) Girls - What's your opinion of a woman who is cheating with a married man who's wife is pregnant?

 

Thoughts?

 

Can women answer any of the questions - I'm a bit too long in the tooth to be a girl...?

 

Anyway, my thoughts (whether you want them or not )

 

About the guy - I can understand this, a bit. I've been hit on many times in my life by guys whose wives / GFs were pregnant. We all knew what the score was - they weren't getting any, were sexually frustrated, and were seeking alternative release. I'm not sure if they found any alternative sexual providers, but if not, it wasn't for lack of trying.

 

(Some women lose interest in sex when pregnant; others become raving nymphos. Hormones do strange things.)

 

About the OW - well, I don't think she's cheating, he is - unless she has some other R with the BW that she's betraying... But if your question is more general, what do I think of an OW whose MM's W is pregnant, I would have to say, no different from an OW whose MM's W is not pregnant, all other things being equal. The BW pregnancy isn't a factor for me, one way or another.

 

Would I personally shag a MM whose BW was pregnant? Not knowingly - I would not put up with a MM who left his phone on (for in case his BW called) or who might have to rush off suddenly or who might feel guilty about switching his phone off and not being available to her if she needed him or whose mind was distracted by "baby on the way" issues... But if he was sufficiently detached and uninterested for me not even to realise that his BW was pregnant, it would make no difference to me if I found out later.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I dunno, maybe being pregnant I see it differently - if for no other reasons for health issues. There is so much that can go wrong (particularly if it is high risk like mine) and the idea of someone introducing possible STDs or infections (stuff like trich, yeast, UTI or BV that can happen when new flora are introduced) is horrifying to me.

 

Now, I suppose if there is no sex whatsoever and no chance of any, that health risk to the baby wouldn't matter - but I really do feel terrible for sexually active pregnant women whose husbands cheat on them (and don't use condoms - condoms in affairs don't seem that common) - mainly because they are bringing home a potential set of infectious health hazards that can directly affect the unborn child.

 

There is a lot of gross trash talk about vag liquids, sloppy seconds, etc. being swapped between W and OW through MM but that trash talk can become a very ugly reality if it is affecting an unborn child.

 

I guess I see it as more of a health issue rather than a ethical one when it comes to potential harm of an entirely innocent unborn baby.

 

Definitely different situation if the W is pregnant, IMO.

 

As for OW part in it? Even in my most active OW years I would not ever have knowingly gotten involved with a man who had a pregnant wife or girlfriend. That's a line I can't see crossing.